I really need advice on a Good HD Camcorder

M

mashinhead

macrumors 68040
Consider me an amateur filmmaker. I want some pro like features so i'd actually say inbetween pro and amateur, leaning toward amateur. I really want to get a camera this week. This is what I want it to have

I want something sub $1000
I would like some level of manual control
Good zoom.
HD*must have*
AVCHD (this if it isn't supported by FCP yet then it's not 'necessary' but i wouldn't mind this feature)
Perfer Hard Drive based (because my end product is digital and will be compressed anyway, also it is just easier to migrate and edit and such), but will consider mini DV
Decent low light results.
Would like some sort of lens focus if possible, or extra lens features, this doesn't mean changing the lens, i know that is a pro feature, but some cameras do offer addons for your lens.
Nice interface ease of use.

I've been looking at:

JVC Everio GZHD7
Canon HV20
Panasonic HDC-HS9 (something like that)
Sony HDR-SR8E

If anyone here is really knowledgeable and passionate about the market that can give me some practical and useful suggestions. I would really appreciate it.
 
I concur with the above post. The HV20 is an amazing camera with great quality and features for the price.
 
I got the Canon HG10 which is the Hard Drive brother of the HV20. I haven't had it long but I like what I've seen so far. Files transfer over very easily to my MBP. Picture quality is excellent. Got it for around $750 (I think) on Amazon.
 
While you can save some money getting the Canon HV10, I would suggest also looking at the newer HV20. It adds a few nice features and comes in a slick black color.
 
bloodycape said:
I would suggest also looking at the newer HV20. It adds a few nice features and comes in a slick black color.
Click to expand...

That'd be the HV30. In NTSC land it added 30fps, in PAL land we just got the colour black, oh and a slightly better zoom toggle.
 
Another vote for the HV20 here. I've owned this one since the summer, after returning a HDD based cam, and I could not be happier. The HV30 looks nice, but it's not all that different than the 20, and the 20 can be had very cheaply now and is a FANTASTIC cam.
 
Add another vote for the HV-20. For the money you can not go wrong. Very simple and easy to use and allows a good amount of control for a camera in it's class. Also the price point you can pick them up for now the HV-30 is being released is just great. If it's a sub $1000 camera you are after the HV-20 is my current recomendation.
 
LloydBraun89 said:
What yields better picture quality MiniDV or HDD?
Click to expand...
It's not possible to answer your question without further information.

miniDV is a standard def format while HDD is a storage medium.

Here's how I keep track of this stuff.

HDV > AVCHD (flash/HDD/DVD) > miniDV > MPEG-2 (flash/HDD/DVD)

So, HDD camcorders can be better or worse than miniDV camcorders. The AVCHD-HDD camcorders would have better quality, but the MPEG-2-HDD camcorders would be worse.

ft
 
LloydBraun89 said:
What yields better picture quality MiniDV or HDD?
Click to expand...

If you're shooting SD, then DV tape will look better than video that was recorded even more heavily compressed to a camera's hard drive.


FWIW, MiniDV isn't a video format; it's a tape cassette size. There's also full sized DV tapes that record up to 3 hours ... both record in the same video format ... which is one of the variants of DV25, simply known as DV.

-DH
 
I have the HV20 but it shoots on mini dv tapes. One problem with looking for a HDD based camera is that many of them do not record in a format readable in any other software except that which come with the camera. So if you are going to be doing editing in FCP HDD is not the way to go. And the mini DV tapes are digital. Great camera, Great zoom, Not so great in low lighting but you can get an attachable light to fix that.
 
ftaok said:
It's not possible to answer your question without further information.

miniDV is a standard def format while HDD is a storage medium.

Here's how I keep track of this stuff.

HDV > AVCHD (flash/HDD/DVD) > miniDV > MPEG-2 (flash/HDD/DVD)

So, HDD camcorders can be better or worse than miniDV camcorders. The AVCHD-HDD camcorders would have better quality, but the MPEG-2-HDD camcorders would be worse.

ft
Click to expand...

thanks for the clarification. good, helpful information.
 
I have the HG10 and as long as you have an Intel Mac you can use iMovie '08 or FCP to get the footage into your computer. It's quite easy in iMovie '08, and just a little trickier in FCP, but still pretty simple.
 
17th Hole said:
I have the HG10 and as long as you have an Intel Mac you can use iMovie '08 or FCP to get the footage into your computer. It's quite easy in iMovie '08, and just a little trickier in FCP, but still pretty simple.
Click to expand...

Thanks you guys i think that I will go with the HG10, just because my final out put is digital and it is easier to get on the computer. I'm just going to start shopping around for a good price. One last question, is it possible to upgrade the HD in the camera yourself?
 
ftaok said:
miniDV is a standard def format while HDD is a storage medium.
Click to expand...

No, MiniDV is a storage medium. You can store DV or HDV footage on one miniDV tape.
DV is the name of the format. You can record/store it on MiniDV or DVCAM tapes.

HDV > AVCHD (flash/HDD/DVD) > miniDV > MPEG-2 (flash/HDD/DVD)

So, HDD camcorders can be better or worse than miniDV camcorders. The AVCHD-HDD camcorders would have better quality, but the MPEG-2-HDD camcorders would be worse.

ft
Click to expand...

If you're going by compression quality, it would be like this:

DV > HDV > AVCHD > SD MPEG2

DV and HDV both use the same storage medium and have the same bitrate. Therefore, HDV has to be more compressed than DV. So as far as compression of the image, DV is the least compressed and would give you the best picture.

Of course, that's not taking in to account the resolution of the video. For high-definition, HDV is generally going to give you a slightly better picture in current consumer HD cameras. This is because the manufacturers mostly limit the bitrate of AVCHD to around 16Mb/s, while the bitrate of HDV is 25Mb/s. Technically, AVCHD uses a superior compression (mpeg-4 h.264) while HDV uses mpeg-2, but the large increase in bitrate of HDV will generally make up for this.
 
zioxide said:
DV and HDV both use the same storage medium and have the same bitrate. Therefore, HDV has to be more compressed than DV. So as far as compression of the image, DV is the least compressed and would give you the best picture.
Click to expand...
Compression ratio means nothing when looked at in a vacuum. HDCAM, the de-facto b'cast HD standard, is compressed 7:1-10:1 (depending on frame rate) but I don't think anyone would say the "less compressed" DV format produces a better image.

Of course, that's not taking in to account the resolution of the video.
Click to expand...
Which is a very big thing to not take into account.


Lethal
 
zioxide said:
No, MiniDV is a storage medium. You can store DV or HDV footage on one miniDV tape.
DV is the name of the format. You can record/store it on MiniDV or DVCAM tapes.
Click to expand...
My bad. You're right, however, at least in the consumer world, miniDV has sort of become the name of the format used in miniDV camcorders. Most laymen have no idea what a pro DV Cam is.


If you're going by compression quality, it would be like this:

DV > HDV > AVCHD > SD MPEG2

DV and HDV both use the same storage medium and have the same bitrate. Therefore, HDV has to be more compressed than DV. So as far as compression of the image, DV is the least compressed and would give you the best picture.
Click to expand...
As LethalWolfe pointed out, I wasn't going by compression quality. I was speaking in terms of video quality.

ft
 
One advantage to cassette vs. hard drive is that you will always have a cassette as backup, where if you lose your HD, you lose your footage if you don't have it duplicated somewhere. So it's either twice the disk space, or $3 tapes. I prefer the tapes.
You should look at dropping a little more cash and stepping up to a prosumer camera. You can pick a used one up for around a grand. Yeah, it wouldn't be HD, but personally you'd be better off learning the basics on a better camera. HD is not critical, especially for a amature/someone who is just learning.
Whatever way you go, have fun, and read all you can. I started filming about a year ago. It's really rewarding. :D
 
If you're going to be doing semi-professional work and editing your video, you'll be much happier with the HV20 versus the HG10.

AVCHD has some nice and small file sizes, but it is compressing the video even further than HDV and you are losing quality. I also found it more difficult to edit with.

I'm very very very happy with my HV20. The quality is INSANE for a camcorder that costs $650.

Also, you'll be burning a LOT of DVD's to back up your footage from a HDD based camcorder. Whereas if you are shooting on tape, you always have a copy of your original footage. Something else to think about.
 
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