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I think I might be about to do something silly...

r6mile

r6mile

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 3, 2010
1,004
505
London, UK
and dip my toes back into the PowerPC world with a G4 MDD. Not to use the computer for anything in particular really, but I've always enjoyed fixing/upgrading/restoring them and seeing what these old computers can do. I don't like the design of the G5 very much, and the G4 MDD is probably my favourite look, so am eyeing a couple on eBay and hopefully I get lucky.

The one I have in mind is the 1.25 DP FW800, though there are quite a few of the 2003 single CPU 1.25 out there which would be OK I guess.
Already jumping ahead to what I might do to it. I am sure these questions have been asked hundreds of times, and forgive me my ignorance but it's been a few years since I played around with a PPC, but:

- other than maxing the RAM to 2GB, what are the obvious/worthwhile upgrades?
- what's the fastest GPU this thing can take?
- is an SSD worthwhile in these machines? if so, is the mSATA-IDE route the best one?
- are the Airport Extreme cards (I know these only work on the FW800 ones) the same cards as in an iBook etc, or are they particular PowerMac ones?
- anything else you would recommend?

PS: Are the CPU daughtercards between these machines interchangeable? Ie if I get the 2003 single CPU model, and somehow find a daughtercard with Dual Cpus, will it be compatible?

Thank you!
 
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for GPU: flashing a BFGTeK 7800 GS OC (PC card) is the complete maxed out route, but those are about $100 on ebay (i still plan on buying one for my MDD in the future though) - read the mac elite wiki for more info
for wifi: don't buy an official airport card, they're way too expensive. look for a pci broadcom card with a BCM4311 chip, thats the one that the airport cards use so with a little luck it should be picked up as a genuine airport card under OS X, but for way less money.
other upgrades: these machines can be overclocked fairly easily, i would take the 1.25 up to a 1.5, a 1.5ghz (on a 1.25ghz chip) should be pretty stable no matter how lucky you get on the silicon lottery.
as for ssd: my mdd runs plenty fast even on the shotty old 80gb PATA drive, so i imagine a cheap 500gb wd blue or equivelant sata drive on a sil3114 or some other cheap flashed sata card should be plenty (i have a sil3114 coming in the mail in about half a month so i'll try to remember to report back with how that works out, i'll be putting a 500gb wd blue in mine as well)
 
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weckart said:
You might find this and other related threads of interest, particularly in relation to the 3114

Click to expand...
thank you for showing this to me :)
i looked at the thread and, from what i can tell, it seems i bought the wrong card. :p
no big deal, both cards are only around $15 so if i end up needing to buy a sil3112 then its not like im dumping a huge amount of money into it or anything.
 
Just bear in mind that you will probably (definitely in the case of the 3112) need to get your soldering iron out, with the possible exception of SiI3124 based cards, which look the most promising.
 
NikolaPPC said:
Can other GS cards be flashed (non BFGTeK)?


Cheers, Nikola!
Click to expand...
some can, it really just depends how the hardware is laid out. i know Nash (one of the old school g4 builders) used a different brand in one of his systems, i think it might have been an EVGA but i could be wrong.
 
Apparently there was an XFX GeForce 7800 GS Extreme Edition, I think the clocks were higher then the BFGTeK 7800 GS OC.

Anyone get there hands on one, the FCode ROM is easy to edit, I'm sure some Darth can help with that.
 
DearthnVader said:
Apparently there was an XFX GeForce 7800 GS Extreme Edition, I think the clocks were higher then the BFGTeK 7800 GS OC.

Anyone get there hands on one, the FCode ROM is easy to edit, I'm sure some Darth can help with that.
Click to expand...

Like this one?

Cheers, Nikola!
 

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So...

I've just won this auction, with two MDDs as well as an Apple Cinema Display :D
www.ebay.co.uk

TWO Apple PowerMac G4 + FREE 17” Studio Display + Keyboard | eBay

As I have no use for them I'm chucking in the keyboard & monitor for free.The monitor has it's own built in cable and there is a second adapter and cable for another monitor. (haven't tested anything though).
www.ebay.co.uk

I'll let you know how I get on with my upgrades!

I'll only keep one, so if you are in the UK and would like the other, get in touch...
 
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Amethyst1 said:
Congrats :D No need to go the DVI->Displayport anymore now.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Now I'll have to decide which machine to keep. It looks like one is the FW800 and the other is the FW400 2003 version.

If the only difference is the Firewire speed (which I don't care about), then I might keep the FW400 one just so I can boot OS9 out of curiosity. What do you guys think?
 
OS 9 can be made to run on the FW800 as well, so I'd keep the faster/better equipped one. It looks like one of them is a dual-processor. That makes a noticeable difference in responsiveness in OS X.
 
Amethyst1 said:
OS 9 can be made to run on the FW800 as well, so I'd keep the faster/better equipped one. It looks like one of them is a dual-processor. That makes a noticeable difference in responsiveness in OS X.
Click to expand...

I had envisaged putting the daughter board with the dual CPUs into the Power Mac I decide to keep anyway, unless they're not interchangeable?
I'm getting ahead of myself anyway - let's see what I'm dealing with exactly when it arrives! I'll need to get a hard drive anyway, thinking of going the MSATA SSD - IDE route. Any recommendations of brands, both for drive or adapter?
 
Now thinking about what to do re the GPU... It would be great to something with Core Image for Leopard; not too fussed about performance though. So far it looks like I have the following options:

- Geforce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB pulled from G5. £15 on eBay. Advantage is it has an ADC port so I can use the 17" Studio Display that I'm getting as well.
- PC Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB. Auction so far at £9 shipped so far, will probably go up in price. No ADC port. Have to flash.
- PC ATI FireGL X3 256MB. £45 on eBay from Germany. No ADC port, will have to flash (seller confirms this is flashable for Powermac G4 though).

From my research, it looks like all 3 cards should be compatible with an MDD. Which option would you recommend, given I'm not too interested in graphics performance (beyond Core Image, though I am happy to be persuaded otherwise)? The FX5200 is looking quite appealing; not having to flash a card and having an ADC port (which means m Display can be used, which I would otherwise sell) seems pretty good.

Having said, I also don't mind just selling the ADC Display and using my iMac as a monitor on target display mode using DVI. I have flashed GPUs before (such as on my iMac 2010) but obviously the process here is different; I don't have a PC or a PCI GPU so would have to be via VNC I presume.

Thanks in advance!
 
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originaldotexe said:
other upgrades: these machines can be overclocked fairly easily, i would take the 1.25 up to a 1.5, a 1.5ghz (on a 1.25ghz chip) should be pretty stable no matter how lucky you get on the silicon lottery.
as for ssd: my mdd runs plenty fast even on the shotty old 80gb PATA drive, so i imagine a cheap 500gb wd blue or equivelant sata drive on a sil3114 or some other cheap flashed sata card should be plenty (i have a sil3114 coming in the mail in about half a month so i'll try to remember to report back with how that works out, i'll be putting a 500gb wd blue in mine as well)
Click to expand...
My MDD was very unstable at 1.5GHz and the CPUs are now completely dead after I took it up to 1.58GHz. So I'm gonna do a 7457 upgrade eventually. I'm definitely interested to see how the SIl3114 turns out, those cards are plentiful but I haven't heard of them working in a PPC mac.
 
r6mile said:
Geforce FX 5200 Ultra
Click to expand...
This GPU sucks to hell and back and doesn't "really" support Core Image. AVOID.

forums.macrumors.com

PowerBook G4 12" / FX 5200 Core Image Ambiguity.

I was perusing Apple Developer tech notes from 2005 and came across the following clarification about the GPU acceleration on the PB 12" (1Ghz+) and 2003-2004 G5 stock FX 5200 GPU. I ran some of my own non-scientific tests with Core Image and OpenGL and my results on a PowerBook G4 12" 1.5Ghz...
forums.macrumors.com forums.macrumors.com
 
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Amethyst1 said:
This GPU sucks to hell and back and doesn't "really" support Core Image. AVOID.

forums.macrumors.com

PowerBook G4 12" / FX 5200 Core Image Ambiguity.

I was perusing Apple Developer tech notes from 2005 and came across the following clarification about the GPU acceleration on the PB 12" (1Ghz+) and 2003-2004 G5 stock FX 5200 GPU. I ran some of my own non-scientific tests with Core Image and OpenGL and my results on a PowerBook G4 12" 1.5Ghz...
forums.macrumors.com forums.macrumors.com
Click to expand...

Do you know if the card, which is from a G5, would even fit in the G4 MDD without mods? There is one going locally for about £5, and it has an ADC, so might still be an improvement on the stock Radeon 9000 Pro while allowing me to run my Studio Display. Or at least I could put in the second MDD which I plan to sell. But I've read conflicting info about whether it is even compatible, which would make it pointless.
The only other card with an ADC port is the 9600 XT, but on another thread someone is saying it doesn't fit in the MDD, which is why I'm curious about this other card.

EDIT: Never mind, did some more googling at it looks like it is a pretty definite no. Looks like I'll have to either stick with the 9000 Pro (and able to use my Studio Display) or get a PC Radeon and try to flash it (but lose the display)!
 
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r6mile said:
Do you know if the card, which is from a G5, would even fit in the G4 MDD without mods? There is one going locally for about £5, and it has an ADC, so might still be an improvement on the stock Radeon 9000 Pro while allowing me to run my Studio Display. Or at least I could put in the second MDD which I plan to sell. But I've read conflicting info about whether it is even compatible, which would make it pointless.
The only other card with an ADC port is the 9600 XT, but on another thread someone is saying it doesn't fit in the MDD, which is why I'm curious about this other card.

EDIT: Never mind, did some more googling at it looks like it is a pretty definite no. Looks like I'll have to either stick with the 9000 Pro (and able to use my Studio Display) or get a PC Radeon and try to flash it (but lose the display)!
Click to expand...
It absolutely will not fit, due to the weird AGP slot (I think it was called AGP Pro or something like that, I've seen it on a few pentium 4 boards also) so there's another reason to avoid it.
 
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jmilan0302 said:
It absolutely will not fit, due to the weird AGP slot (I think it was called AGP Pro or something like that, I've seen it on a few pentium 4 boards also) so there's another reason to avoid it.
Click to expand...

Does any G5 AGP card work in the G4 MDD? I've seen some 9600 and 9650s pulled from G5s, and I know the latter has dual DVI which is appealing and @Amethyst1 mentioned it a while back, but presumably they'd have the same issue as they use the same AGP Pro? Sorry if this is a basic question.
 
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