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I think rMBP might have better gaming performance than Alienware m17x

M

macassassin

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 13, 2012
10
0
From my research, I noticed that the second tier m17x has a gtx660m gpu. The rMBP has a gt 650m but I heard that apple has overclocked it to be better than the 660m. Plus both are the same price. Does this mean that the rMBP has better performance than one of the best gaming laptops?
If you don't believe me go to the Alienware site and check.
 
Not necessarily. If the Mac port of that game is less efficient than the PC version it will take a better GPU to match it. The Mac's drivers might not be as good either. Then you get into if the game you want to play isn't available on the Mac, or is a weaker port, by default that PC has better gaming performance.

The only way to know is by matching the settigns for a PC review and see what kind of framerate you get.
 
darngooddesign said:
Not necessarily. If the Mac port of that game is less efficient than the PC version it will take a better GPU to match it. The Mac's drivers might not be as good either. Then you get into if the game you want to play isn't available on the Mac, or is a weaker port, by default that PC has better gaming performance.

The only way to know is by matching the settigns for a PC review and see what kind of framerate you get.
Click to expand...

Nobody games on Mac OSX...any mac gamer has Win7 installed on their MBP.
 
gentlefury said:
Nobody games on Mac OSX...any mac gamer has Win7 installed on their MBP.
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not, depends how much iunto gaming the person is. There are some decent ports available through Steam. Now if you are talking about doing it though BootCamp then you have an additional layer of software which can drag down good specs.

So my point is still true, match the settings in a PC review and see what kind of framerate you get.
 
darngooddesign said:
Maybe, maybe not, depends how much iunto gaming the person is. There are some decent ports available through Steam. Now if you are talking about doing it though BootCamp then you have an additional layer of software which can drag down good specs.

So my point is still true, match the settings in a PC review and see what kind of framerate you get.
Click to expand...

You don't know what Bootcamp is. It is just the name that Apple gave, a piece of software that assists in partitioning your hard drive to install Windows natively on your hardware. You don't even have to use it...you can just use Disk Utility. Then when you boot into windows it provides drivers. It is NOT in any way emulated or containing any more "layers" of software than any other windows based PC. That is a virtual machine like Parallels, which runs inside Mac...and is NOT for gaming, since it can only use virtualized graphics hardware and is basically useless for any modern game.

Running windows natively, however, is the only way to truly game on a Mac and runs better, IMHO, than any PC only computer I have ever used!
 
This is one of things that i usually cringe at. People always go with windows because they think it is smoother with games. its not! there is only a wider variety of games for it. When i tell someone that i am getting a mac most jump to conclusions saying that PC is faster when in all truth i will be doing a little bit of gaming on it, like minecraft.

i think it is more down to the users decision, i guess.
 
macmastersam said:
This is one of things that i usually cringe at. People always go with windows because they think it is smoother with games. its not! there is only a wider variety of games for it. When i tell someone that i am getting a mac most jump to conclusions saying that PC is faster when in all truth i will be doing a little bit of gaming on it, like minecraft.

i think it is more down to the users decision, i guess.
Click to expand...

And you would be DEAD wrong. The only games that are natively written for mac are games like Angry Birds and Plants vs Zombies. If you want a real game (Black Ops 2, Hitman, Assassins Creed 3, etc) you will need to use windows. These games are written to work in windows, most specifically DirectX. All the old games that have been ported to Mac are using a Windows emulation layer called Wine...which allows a basic approximation of a windows environment in mac...but it is MUCH slower and doesn't allow for proper resource management.

Sorry, Windows for gaming...Mac for everything else. There are a few small exceptions to the rule. Borderlands 2 has native Mac support from the dev. I haven't played it on Mac yet...but since it isn't a crappy port, it might be good. But typically if Mac is natively supported that means the engine uses OpenGL, as opposed to DirectX, which means it will not have nearly as many fun graphical features.

You can install Windows on a Mac.....why wouldn't you? You can also install Linux on a Mac...and Linux is better at some high end resource heavy applications than Windows and Mac are...so in some cases a Tri-Boot setup is perfect. Use the right tool for the job! Just because a screw driver has a flat tip, doesn't mean it's a bevel.
 
gentlefury said:
You don't know what Bootcamp is....
Click to expand...

I know what BootCamp is and I never said it was the same as emulation or Parallels.

If Bootcamp is exactly the same as having a Windows PC then explain why the trackpad experience in BootCamp is always worse than in OSX. Its because the Windows drivers for the Mac trackpad aren't as good as the native OSX driver.
 
darngooddesign said:
I know what BootCamp is and I never said it was the same as emulation or Parallels.

If Bootcamp is exactly the same as having a Windows PC then explain why the trackpad experience in BootCamp is always worse than in OSX. Its because the Windows drivers for the Mac trackpad aren't as good as the native OSX driver.
Click to expand...

That means that Apple didn't make great drivers for the trackpad. It doesn't mean there is "an additional layer of software which can drag down good specs." It means that you use a real mouse...which most people do.

As far as the drivers that matter.

Graphics drivers come from vendors (I am using the latest Nvidia Beta drivers on my rMBP right now) ..not apple...CPU and Ethernet drivers also come from vendors....bootcamp just makes it more convenient than having to scour for them.
 
darngooddesign said:
I know what BootCamp is and I never said it was the same as emulation or Parallels.

If Bootcamp is exactly the same as having a Windows PC then explain why the trackpad experience in BootCamp is always worse than in OSX. Its because the Windows drivers for the Mac trackpad aren't as good as the native OSX driver.
Click to expand...

Could it have something to do with Apple's incompetence when it comes to coding anything for Windows? And yes, Apple's Bootcamp Drivers are Apple's problem, not Microsoft's.
 
Uhh... I seriously doubt that. I'm on my M17x r4 right now, which is meant to be a gaming computer. MacBook Pro is not, although has some sweet dedicated graphics. The 660m (in mine) vs the 650m benchmarks higher. Same with the processor. 3610m in the M17x, not sure about processor speeds in the rMBP though... both solid computers for gaming, just my belief that the M17x is better. I'm also running on 16gb of RAM, which'll cause an increase as well...
 
Squilly said:
Uhh... I seriously doubt that. I'm on my M17x r4 right now, which is meant to be a gaming computer. MacBook Pro is not, although has some sweet dedicated graphics. The 660m (in mine) vs the 650m benchmarks higher. Same with the processor. 3610m in the M17x, not sure about processor speeds in the rMBP though... both solid computers for gaming, just my belief that the M17x is better. I'm also running on 16gb of RAM, which'll cause an increase as well...
Click to expand...

MBP's 650m > Alienware 660m

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1393606/
 
gentlefury said:
Nobody games on Mac OSX...any mac gamer has Win7 installed on their MBP.
Click to expand...

Of course that's silly. Someone is buying the Mac games.

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gentlefury said:
Graphics drivers come from vendors (I am using the latest Nvidia Beta drivers on my rMBP right now) ..not apple...CPU and Ethernet drivers also come from vendors....bootcamp just makes it more convenient than having to scour for them.
Click to expand...

Apple modifies the graphics and ethernet drivers from the vendors. They wouldn't work on OSX out of the box and the vendors can't be trusted to do it.

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Adamantoise said:
You do realize that nothing is stopping M17 owners from overclocking their own GPU too ... Right?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure he figured that out all by himself. If a gpu is going to be overclocked I would rather than vendor does it and covers it under warranty, especially on a laptop.

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macmastersam said:
This is one of things that i usually cringe at. People always go with windows because they think it is smoother with games. its not! there is only a wider variety of games for it. When i tell someone that i am getting a mac most jump to conclusions saying that PC is faster when in all truth i will be doing a little bit of gaming on it, like minecraft.

i think it is more down to the users decision, i guess.
Click to expand...

The reason it is typically faster is because the developer is doing a bare minimum of work to port a PC game to Mac. I think I have seen some STEAM games reported as running 30 faster but its been awhile so i don't remember where I saw that. But for most games I don't bother booting into Windows as my MBP runs them just fine.

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gentlefury said:
All the old games that have been ported to Mac are using a Windows emulation layer called Wine...which allows a basic approximation of a windows environment in mac...but it is MUCH slower and doesn't allow for proper resource management.
Click to expand...

Also not true that all old games use Wine. But it is true that you will likely see better graphics on Windows.
 
gentlefury said:
You don't know what Bootcamp is. It is just the name that Apple gave, a piece of software that assists in partitioning your hard drive to install Windows natively on your hardware. You don't even have to use it...you can just use Disk Utility. Then when you boot into windows it provides drivers. It is NOT in any way emulated or containing any more "layers" of software than any other windows based PC. That is a virtual machine like Parallels, which runs inside Mac...and is NOT for gaming, since it can only use virtualized graphics hardware and is basically useless for any modern game.

Running windows natively, however, is the only way to truly game on a Mac and runs better, IMHO, than any PC only computer I have ever used!
Click to expand...

You Sir, don't know what Bootcamp does...it is in fact emulating a BIOS layer, because Windows runs on BIOS or an incompatible form of UEFI.
 
if you are only comparing against the 660m, which shouldnt, no they are around the same performance.

if you compare to the 7970m or the 680m, those cards are 200% faster.

If you compare to the 680mx it should be around 210-220% faster.

so just plain no.
 
completely unrelated but I went into EBGames to return a controller that didn't work for Borderlands 2 on my Mac (no controller support) and one of the two employees working there told me "Well, thats your first problem. You're gaming on a Mac"

I just responded that it wasn't 2005 anymore and that my rMBP would eat her windows laptop, which she told me after was an Acer. GTFO.
 
gentlefury said:
That will NOT affect performance. It is still x86 hardware.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the people who can't have a 3TB disk drive and run Windows at the same time via Bootcamp on the new iMacs...That's actually because of the legacy status of BIOS which does not support disk bigger then 3TB. Or how about AHCI? All stuff that has been added to BIOS through work around but Apple feels is a pain in the ass to include...
 
Galatian said:
Tell that to the people who can't have a 3TB disk drive and run Windows at the same time via Bootcamp on the new iMacs...That's actually because of the legacy status of BIOS which does not support disk bigger then 3TB. Or how about AHCI? All stuff that has been added to BIOS through work around but Apple feels is a pain in the ass to include...
Click to expand...

actually its pretty simple, apple needs to revamp the bootcamp app. They should allow the UEFI for windows as well, not to emulate the bios.
 
Mr MM said:
actually its pretty simple, apple needs to revamp the bootcamp app. They should allow the UEFI for windows as well, not to emulate the bios.
Click to expand...

It's not a question of allowing UEFI. Apple uses a non-standard potpourri of EFI 1.1 and 2.0.
Windows 8 supposedly finally works on it though
 
gentlefury said:
Nobody games on Mac OSX...any mac gamer has Win7 installed on their MBP.
Click to expand...

This is simply not true. I don't do all that much gaming on my Mac, but there's no way I'm going to dual-boot a machine that's already a little cramped for space. And no, I don't think going from the 480GB to the 512GB SSD would have eliminated the cramping.

There are some things that I really need to run under Windows, and for those... Well, I have a Windows laptop which is fine for gaming. It has nominally weaker specs than my MBP, but it also has about an extra inch of thickness, so it can run games at higher qualities for longer without heat issues. I don't really expect the MBP to handle gaming very well; it's simply not designed for that kind of usage. Apple's focus is on "thin", and that's what they provide.

As to the rest... It's hard to get really solid information, because clock speed is not enough to tell you how a chip will perform, but the 650M at high clock rates is certainly solidly competitive with the 660M.
 
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