I think the Chrysler Crossfire should come back...

[JoeG4]

Meh, you don't need to argue the point since I'd assume 90% of the people on this forum would immediately take a BMW if they were offered a choice between a BMW and a similarly priced car from some other brand, for free.

I've seen hundreds of setups/desktops with a BMW on them.

Like I said, I think they're ugly, and I don't feel bad saying this because plenty of people (on the internet only, of course) have told me the same about my car, insulted my choice of Apple computers, insulted my choice of music, etc. That's fine, matter of taste.

If you want a car that looks like a sculpted up shoe, sounds crappy, and is the number one choice of douchebags on the freeway, go ahead.

I think there are far superior options out there, but what can I say? I don't use my dashboard as a bed.

 

[Synchromesh]

I loved them, but the attitude of the posts in this thread is one of the huge reasons why nothing (so far) can save Chrysler.

The reason most people won't buy a Chrysler is because Chrysler makes crappy cars. I've had the privilege of renting a Jeep Compass last year and it was quite awful on many levels. Even the 2 Ford Focii I rented this year were significantly better. not to mention most Japanese cars.

If someone slapped a BMW logo on that car everyone here would be dreaming about owning one, probably half the people would have a picture of it as their desktop wallpaper.

Not me. With a few rare exceptions (and mostly from the past anyway) I do not like BMWs at all. Newer cars are very overweight and overpowered as well as overengineered and especially overpriced. Same goes for Benz. I think most people buy them purely for image/luxury reasons nowadays.

 

[JoeG4]

The Jeep Compass is indeed a horrible car. The sad thing is, when Chrysler released the Crossfire everyone was whining about how horrible it was, and they still went on to make 3 more vehicles on that piece of *@#% platform.

Imagine the good that could happen in this world if we got Ralph Gilles, a subaru drivetrain, and some high end interior materials together?

XD

You want to hear my favorite one? I was reading on Allpar, that when Chrysler made the Sebring they started out and designed the car around the Mitsubishi Galant platform, only to realize in the end that the platform was inadequate. So, they built a new platform from the ground up....

and still designed the car around the constraints of the Galant platform.

Sickening waste of money no?

 

[Synchromesh]

With exception of Viper and the Hemi 300 there aren't any vehicles Chrysler is currently making to even remote appeal to me. And since I like to buy them used and fairly cheap it kills any chances at all of my next car being a Chrysler vehicle. In fact, the only American car I would even remotely consider to be on my wanted list is the Cobalt SS 4-door and it would be waaaaay at the bottom of such list.

It's not my (or most other people's fault) that I want a vehicle that American manufacturers don't know how to make. And that's one of the main reasons they are in trouble now.

 

[greygray]

If someone slapped a BMW logo on that car everyone here would be dreaming about owning one

Just like how people stick stickers on their laptops. It's not about the logo, it's the **** itself that looks goddamn ugly.

kthnxbai

 

[puma1552]

Z4 is an outright stunningly beautiful and classy car IMO, especially the 06-08 models with the refreshed tails/nose, and of course the 2009+ ones.

Give me a white on black one with aluminum dash trim and i am one ultra happy camper. a z4 has been the object of my affection since 2003.

 

[Signal-11]

Not me. With a few rare exceptions (and mostly from the past anyway) I do not like BMWs at all. Newer cars are very overweight and overpowered as well as overengineered and especially overpriced. Same goes for Benz. I think most people buy them purely for image/luxury reasons nowadays.

Diff'rent strokes for different folks.

That said, you are wrong. BMWs have better driving dynamics and are the standard by which all other major manufacturers with sport-y aspirations are measured.

I'm curious as to how many BMWs you have owned?

Oh, and Jessica, the S2K is as close to being on a motorcycle you can get on four wheels.

 

[puma1552]

Diff'rent strokes for different folks.

That said, you are wrong. BMWs have better driving dynamics and are the standard by which all other major manufacturers with sport-y aspirations are measured.

I'm curious as to how many BMWs you have owned?

Oh, and Jessica, the S2K is as close to being on a motorcycle you can get on four wheels.

ill give you most of this, as bmws most certainly not overweight or overpowered (really?!)...though they are indeed overengineered in the electrical department.

that said i owned two bmws, a 325is and a 325i and they were fantastic cars and extremely well balanced and engineered.

 

[Signal-11]

ill give you most of this, as bmws most certainly not overweight or overpowered (really?!)...though they are indeed overengineered in the electrical department.

that said i owned two bmws, a 325is and a 325i and they were fantastic cars and extremely well balanced and engineered.

Yeah, I read syncromesh's post and ... overpowered??? As for overweight, the only BMWs I've driven that felt overweight for a "driver's car" were ix models.

Anyway, let's define "overengineered" since it can mean different things to different people. In car guy terms, overengineered generally means tough as a rock and/or functional well over their original intended design specs. For example, the Nissan's N1s that were in Skylines or the Toyota 2JEs that went into the Supra. You could do crazy stuff to them and they'd continue to tick.

 

[P-Worm]

You'll get caught up in it.

P-Worm

 

[RaceTripper]

I've owned 4 BMWs ('99 323i, '02 530i, '03 330ci, '05 M3). None of these were about luxury or status. They are all about awesome balance, driving dynamics, handling, solid engineering. There is a reason BMW's motto is "The Ultimate Driving Machine." They put there money where there mouth is.

And as far as the ignorants who claim BMWs owners are douchbags, tell it to those who volunteer their time to teach teenagers at TireRack/BMWCCA Steet Survival Schools all over the country. I'm sure those kids' parents agree we're all douchbags for volunteering our time and sharing our experience to teach their kids how to be safe drivers and avoid/avert dangerous situations.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I'm going to play a little devil's advocate and defend the Crossfire. Yes, it's an older Merc underneath and has controversial styling, but it's still a pretty decent little GT car nonetheless. And at least it sets you apart from the legions of BMWs and Audis out there.

Also, I'd say the styling, while a little unorthodox, is no worse than some of the "flame surfacing" BMW styling. Or Audi's new Rolls Royce-sized grilles.

I probably wouldn't buy one, but I think it would be harsh to totally dismiss it as unworthy of consideration.

I've owned 4 BMWs ('99 323i, '02 530i, '03 330ci, '05 M3). None of these were about luxury or status. They are all about awesome balance, driving dynamics, handling, solid engineering. There is a reason BMW's motto is "The Ultimate Driving Machine." They put there money where there mouth is.

And as far as the ignorants who claim BMWs owners are douchbags, tell it to those who volunteer their time to teach teenagers at TireRack/BMWCCA Steet Survival Schools all over the country...

First off, let me say I completely agree with you that most BMWs are excellent sports sedans/coupes with more performance credibility than your average luxury car. Especially the M models. (Let's ignoe the useless X Series).

However, you can't ignore the fact that BMWs (and Audis these days) have a "douchebag" image. And, frankly, it is well deserved. They are very expensive cars. Hordes of yuppies and business exec types buy them, and I can't tell you how many times some ******* in a suit or collared shirt with a phone at his ear has blown by me in some German sports sedan.

Don't get me wrong - I love the cars, I'd buy one in a minute if I had the dough, but the fact of the matter is a LOT of snobby-douchebag-types drive them and they're always going to have that image in addition to their well-deserved reputation for excellent driving performance. Get over it, and enjoy your BMW.

 

[RaceTripper]

I
However, you can't ignore the fact that BMWs (and Audis these days) have a "douchebag" image. And, frankly, it is well deserved. They are very expensive cars. Hordes of yuppies and business exec types buy them, and I can't tell you how many times some ******* in a suit or collared shirt with a phone at his ear has blown by me in some German sports sedan.

Don't get me wrong - I love the cars, I'd buy one in a minute if I had the dough, but the fact of the matter is a LOT of snobby-douchebag-types drive them and they're always going to have that image in addition to their well-deserved reputation for excellent driving performance. Get over it, and enjoy your BMW.

My personal observation is that people driving SUVS act like bigger douchbags than people driving BMWs. When I encounter an unsafe or uncomfortable driving situation these days it's almost always involving an SUV or pickup truck acting unsafe and being non-courteous. So if you want to stereotype drivers by their cars, then fine, I'll play. SUV drivers are the biggest douchbags of them all, in my experience, and they are wresting that distinction away from us BMW/Audi/etc drivers.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So if you want to stereotype drivers by their cars, then fine, I'll play. SUV drivers are the biggest douchbags of them all, in my experience, and they are wresting that distinction away from us BMW/Audi/etc drivers.

At the risk of descending into silly subjective digressions, I'd say that the Yuppie BMW drivers and the SUV/Truck drivers are equally bad. Both are aggressive, rude and arrogant. In the case of the BMW drivers, they suffer from an overgrown sense of self worth and overconfidence in their own capabilities as a driver and that of their car (i.e. "I took a driving class and do SCCA Solo, I know I can cut into that lane safetly even if it scares everyone else to death").

In the case of the truck drivers, it's a feeling of physical invincibility and selfishness ("If I get in a wreck, I'll survive, screw everyone else").

Again, let me emphasize these are just stereotpyes, I'm not name-calling anyone here, but there are enough "douchebags" out there that fit the mold to make the stereotype recognizable. I'd drive a BMW if I could afford one, but I can't so I bought a Subaru. Which makes me a granola-eating, kayak toting, sandal-clad, REI shopping wannabe outdoorsy type I suppose.

At least if you bought a Crossfire you wouldn't fit either stereotype.

 

[RaceTripper]

At the risk of descending into silly subjective digressions, I'd say that the Yuppie BMW drivers and the SUV/Truck drivers are equally bad. Both are aggressive, rude and arrogant. In the case of the BMW drivers, they suffer from an overgrown sense of self worth and overconfidence in their own capabilities as a driver and that of their car (i.e. "I took a driving class and do SCCA Solo, I know I can cut into that lane safetly even if it scares everyone else to death").

In the case of the truck drivers, it's a feeling of physical invincibility and selfishness ("If I get in a wreck, I'll survive, screw everyone else").

Again, let me emphasize these are just stereotpyes, I'm not name-calling anyone here, but there are enough "douchebags" out there that fit the mold to make the stereotype recognizable. I'd drive a BMW if I could afford one, but I can't so I bought a Subaru. Which makes me a granola-eating, kayak toting, sandal-clad, REI shopping wannabe outdoorsy type I suppose.

At least if you bought a Crossfire you wouldn't fit either stereotype.

fair enough

And I did the 2-day BMW M Performance School.

 

[carlgo]

I worked for years at a body shop that did all sorts of cars, mostly newer ones.

You really can't stereotype cars/owners, and many stereotypes are wrong. Porsche owners, for example, were very easy to deal with and rarely were the p****s they are supposed to be.

The worst? People with way more car than they can afford, high-rise pickups, cars with "easy does it stickers", fast a furious winged cars with bee fart exhausts, women who hate men and just know that they are getting ripped off and boyfriends who know all about cars trying to impress girls.

So, most people with money and nice new cars are far easier to deal with than poorer people trying to reach.

Oh, and funny hats. Always beware of people who wear funny hats. I swear about 80% of them are nuts.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

You really can't stereotype cars/owners, and many stereotypes are wrong. Porsche owners, for example, were very easy to deal with and rarely were the p****s they are supposed to be.

The Porsche/Audi dealer near me is the MOST arrogant assambly of pretentious *******s I've ever come across. Weirdly enough though, the local Honda dealer is just as bad. They badmouth every other car brand, mix up their spec info, talk to the customer in a patronizing fashion and pretty much behave as if they are doing you a favor by selling you a Honda. I went there shopping for a used car and walked off the lot almost immediately. Total jerks.

You forgot another funny stereotype, I encountered this one in upstate New York of all places: pretentious-faux-hippie with a crappy old Mercedes 30OD/VW diesel running on homemade biodiesel. He's the kind of guy that I hope gets cut off on the highway by the douchebag BMW driver.

 

[pvmacguy]

That thing is a big piece of junk! Non-existent steering feel/response, flobbery suspension and pitiful performance. Yes it is an old merc design but it is it one? No and does it have the same quality as a merc? Heck no. Not to mention the body styling is hideous, interior appointments are sub par as well. You would be much better buying a used z3/z4 and having a sports roadster that is work something driving and in the eyes of the almighty dollar than dropping a pretty penny on any Chrysler for that matter. All I can say is good riddance.

 

[Melrose]

With exception of Viper and the Hemi 300 there aren't any vehicles Chrysler is currently making to even remote appeal to me. And since I like to buy them used and fairly cheap it kills any chances at all of my next car being a Chrysler vehicle. In fact, the only American car I would even remotely consider to be on my wanted list is the Cobalt SS 4-door and it would be waaaaay at the bottom of such list.

It's not my (or most other people's fault) that I want a vehicle that American manufacturers don't know how to make. And that's one of the main reasons they are in trouble now.

If you include sub-brands in the Chrysler family, I like the new Challenger. The Challenger and the Viper are the two I'd give you two cents for, and the Viper looks nothing like what it used to when it was introduced. It used to be distinct and cool; now it just looks like a homogenized, typical sports car.

As for the Crossfire, blech. Sorry, I never liked the look of those cars. They can stay gone.

 

[Synchromesh]

Diff'rent strokes for different folks.

That said, you are wrong. BMWs have better driving dynamics and are the standard by which all other major manufacturers with sport-y aspirations are measured.

Funny you put those 2 sentences together in your post.

I own an original Miata (R-package). For you BMW lovers it's a lightweight, well-balanced sports car, something a BMW hasn't made since the E30. Uberfast it maybe not but it doesn't need to be. I remember BMW's take on the subject - the Z3. It was so awful, expensive and underpowered that in the last year I've seen maybe 2 or 3 around here and we have quite a few BMWs around here. Your pos BMW will never handle or feel as light and awesome as say a Lotus Elise. It can't. It's has so much luxury crap in it that it needs much more horsepower just to not feel so sluggish.

I'm curious as to how many BMWs you have owned?

I don't need to put my hand over the fire to realize it will hurt. I've driven quite a few of them and know enough people that owned them. Most swore to never come back again because maintenance off warranty is outrageously expensive and they break often. Since I like to buy used cars I stick to Japanese ones.

 

[Synchromesh]

Yeah, I read syncromesh's post and ... overpowered??? As for overweight, the only BMWs I've driven that felt overweight for a "driver's car" were ix models.

325 is somewhat underpowered but not too bad. I was referring to 335, M3, etc.

Anyway, let's define "overengineered" since it can mean different things to different people. In car guy terms, overengineered generally means tough as a rock and/or functional well over their original intended design specs. For example, the Nissan's N1s that were in Skylines or the Toyota 2JEs that went into the Supra. You could do crazy stuff to them and they'd continue to tick.

What I meant was they tried to stuff it so full of technology and electronics not only did that affect handling because of weight but it also made the life difficult down the road because of faulty electronics. Strangely enough the Japanese managed to pull it off somehow while older Audi, BMW and Mercedes often have problems with electronics that are nightmarish.

 

[dmr727]

I own an original Miata (R-package). For you BMW lovers it's a lightweight, well-balanced sports car, something a BMW hasn't made since the E30. Uberfast it maybe not but it doesn't need to be.

Back in my college days I used to spend a couple of weekends per year at the track (Texas World Speedway, the road course), and Spec Miatas were all the rage. People would spend about two grand on a used Miata, put another five grand into gutting it and installing a roll cage, then another grand on a trailer for it. So for less than ten grand all in you'd have a little race car.

And these guys would go out there and humble just about everyone on that road course. The guys in the Vipers, Ferraris, high end BMWs - they were all very good at mashing the gas pedal on the straights, but a good Miata driver would beat an average driver of anything else out there on the track. It was fun to watch.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

The Crossfire was a looker indeed, Chrysler has had some great looking stuff the past 10 years. Their designs look way better then bland GM/Ford in my view. I love My Charger and it does hall tail if you know what I mean.

 

[Melrose]

The Crossfire was a looker indeed, Chrysler has had some great looking stuff the past 10 years. Their designs look way better then bland GM/Ford in my view. I love My Charger and it does hall tail if you know what I mean.

I agree, their recent designs they've tried to step up (I'm no fan, but they are stylish). Although, in the past two or three years GM and Ford are bringing it together too.

The thing I don't like about the new Chrysler models is quality. They don't feel as good as a Chevy or the recent Pontiacs.

 

[Synchromesh]

Back in my college days I used to spend a couple of weekends per year at the track (Texas World Speedway, the road course), and Spec Miatas were all the rage. People would spend about two grand on a used Miata, put another five grand into gutting it and installing a roll cage, then another grand on a trailer for it. So for less than ten grand all in you'd have a little race car.

And these guys would go out there and humble just about everyone on that road course. The guys in the Vipers, Ferraris, high end BMWs - they were all very good at mashing the gas pedal on the straights, but a good Miata driver would beat an average driver of anything else out there on the track. It was fun to watch.

My point precisely. Thanks for proving it.