I thought I was in the Clear - keyboard issue

[GtrDude]

It will be interesting how Apple will handle failing keyboards when all the 2016 and 2017 laptops are out of warranty. The EU is very protective of customers when it comes to known manufacturing defects.

Apple will likely have to replace failing laptops with newer models that are not prone to keyboard failure. Watch out for a replacement program in 3-5 years time.

At that point I might even pick up a cheap used 2016 model and sit on it in anticipating of a replacement program.

I hope they will be forced to replace the keyboard.

In order to correct this silly idea they need to be hit where it hurts, in their pocketbook.

I mean, I'm sure the keyboard is an engineering marvel and one more 'genius' thing from them but in real life it just play sucks.

I got a 2016 MBP and returned it and then got a 2017, use it off and on today but nothing close to what I had planned on using it.
The keyboard is what keeps me from using it full time. I would love to be able to but I just can't. It's good for emails and forums, Twitter, etc. But not real keyboard work....not for me that is.
Went back to using my trusty 2014 MacBook Air (still runs like new) and an X1 Carbon, now there is a real keyboard and excellent for people like me who use the keyboard for 6 to 8 hours every day.

 

[gertruded]

No one should expect a $2000-3000 laptop to need a $600 top case replace after 3 years because a key has failed.

I've used numerous laptop and keyboards throughout my life and none has required the keyboard to be thrown out. Yes a keyboard is a wear and tear item but if there's a manufacturing or design default defect then the manufacturer should be held accountable for any failure.


I once had a HP Pavilion laptop which needed a motherboard replacement three times. I had a hunch there was a manufacturing defect which HP, for legal reasons, denied. Eventually they came clean and released a statement that the on board Nvidia GPU had a design fault that toasted motherboards. At that moment I sent HP a letter stating that they have knowingly sold me a laptop with critical defect.

Within 6 days I was, no questions asked, refunded 50% of the money I paid for the laptop 3 years earlier.

I had the same problem with my HP laptop if the same era. Wish I had thought to send them a letter. What I did was to never ever purchase any HP product again which I adhere to to this day. Cheat me once, shame on you. Cheat me twice, shame on me.

 

[newellj]

I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't remember that many keyboard issues posted in this forum before the 2016/2017 MBPs. And most of those pre-2016 posts were the "dang I spilled a soda and now the x key is stuck" type.

But this is not true! Many of them were "dang I spilled coffee with cream and sugar and now the x key is stuck."

 

[jerryk]

But this is not true! Many of them were "dang I spilled coffee with cream and sugar and now the x key is stuck."

In that case the next response would be "But, I use a doughnut to suck the coffee off, but now I have coconut wedged under the keys."

 

[Sterkenburg]

Isn't that kind of stating the obvious? Of course it will fail at some point, everything will. The question is how many, and whether it's likely to be <1 year which is not acceptable, or >3 years which people should expect.

Erm, other people above already said this, but... lol, no. It shouldn't even be remotely suggested that we should expect a keyboard to crap out after >3 years. Keyboards that don't have a factory defect or a design flaw last basically forever (even cheapo ones), and are probably the last hardware component one would expect to cause a serious issue.

I've been using computers for more than 25 years and this is literally the first time I have ever seen a keyboard fail without someone spilling a drink over it.

 

[SteveJUAE]

It will be interesting how Apple will handle failing keyboards when all the 2016 and 2017 laptops are out of warranty. The EU is very protective of customers when it comes to known manufacturing defects.

Apple will likely have to replace failing laptops with newer models that are not prone to keyboard failure. Watch out for a replacement program in 3-5 years time.

At that point I might even pick up a cheap used 2016 model and sit on it in anticipating of a replacement program.

I would guess Apple all ready cover this in their pricing in EU products

Lets face it there is good reason Apple products are at premium prices as there is a massive overhead of support and shops. Their core warranty is 1 year to extend to 3 years which in essence is the same as any other risk based premium you pay on many items.

The quality of Apple support is only there as you pay for it, its not free and if anything all the owners in countries with lessor stores etc or none actually subsidise others globally

I'm not implying for all this hidden costs of support etc that you are not necessarily getting value for money, many do but equally many do not claim that's how it works

There is no doubt that Apple will have years of data to analyse and adjust their pricing accordingly for support warranty etc including contingency for manufacturing defects and specific country laws (eg EU)

The dilemma for the consumer who keeps a laptop > than 3 years is

1) Value, as for the few statistics we can gleam from the internet imply Apple is better than most (like for like) in the first 2 years but no better in 3 or more

2) Are these risk based analysis etc fed back in to design in such away to not promote longevity eg are some components picked over others as they have a higher probability failure say at 4 or 5 years, to promote future sales.

3) Are we as consumers encouraging poorer testing and design standards by opting for extended warranties etc

The only thing we can be assured of Apple will be covered for most eventualities as we gave them the $'s

 

[eddjedi]

Erm, other people above already said this, but... lol, no. It shouldn't even be remotely suggested that we should expect a keyboard to crap out after >3 years.

The only stupid thing I've done is wasted my breath on a bunch of people who apparently skipped first grade maths and don't know what 'greater than' means. I didn't say "your keyboard will break in three years." I said after three years - that could be 3.5, 5, 10, 20, or even a lifetime if you're really lucky - your keyboard (you know, that thing you hit with your hands thousands of times a day) might stop working. Not exactly rocket science is it? Or unreasonable.

You've never heard of a keyboard not working apart from drink spillages before? Here's threads for the 2015, 2012, and 2009 MBP on the same subject:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7188317?start=15&tstart=0

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View...l+keyboard+and+mouse+suddenly+stopped+working

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/227637/keyboard+malfunction+some+keys+not+working.

I can find more if you like. If you want a photo of our IT cupboard at work that's full of Lenovo and Microsoft keyboards that don't work any more, I can show you that too.

 

[jerryk]

The only stupid thing I've done is wasted my breath on a bunch of people who apparently skipped first grade maths and don't know what 'greater than' means. I didn't say "your keyboard will break in three years." I said after three years - that could be 3.5, 5, 10, 20, or even a lifetime if you're really lucky - your keyboard (you know, that thing you hit with your hands thousands of times a day) might stop working. Not exactly rocket science is it? Or unreasonable.

You've never heard of a keyboard not working apart from drink spillages before? Here's threads for the 2015, 2012, and 2009 MBP on the same subject:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7188317?start=15&tstart=0

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View...l+keyboard+and+mouse+suddenly+stopped+working

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/227637/keyboard+malfunction+some+keys+not+working.

I can find more if you like. If you want a photo of our IT cupboard at work that's full of Lenovo and Microsoft keyboards that don't work any more, I can show you that too.

This is closer to my experience with Lenovo keyboards and their laptops in general.

 

[TommyilRomano]

Isn't that kind of stating the obvious? Of course it will fail at some point, everything will. The question is how many, and whether it's likely to be <1 year which is not acceptable, or >3 years which people should expect.

This is absolute nonsense. No one should expect a keyboard to fail after 3 years especially considering the premium we are paying for these Pro models...

 

[project_2501]

Apple's reality distortion field is still strong.

• They produce a terrible keyboard that is uncomfortable for any serious use.
• They produce a keyboard that fails far far more than keyboards on laptops 1/4 the cost.
• They produce a keyboard that needs an entire replacement if you're unlucky to have a tiny piece of dust enter the mechanism, when other laptops would be fine.
• .. and thay produce a laptop that is a warranty time bomb, lumbering us with huge costs as soon as the warranty date is over.

And yet - so many loyal fans defend them? With comments and arguments like:

• The reported cases are individual isolated cases, not representative .. "shut up".
• Of course keyboards fail, nothing lasts forever.
• People write negative experiences on the internet more than good ones .. so ignore it.

Amazing.

Anyway ... here's some #BadLuckBrian tragic humour ...

I bought an nTB model because, like many professionals, I need a real Escape key.
And the Escape key fails. After a complete replacement of the keyboard by Apple.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Apple's reality distortion field is still strong.

Really strong.

I think many are this way because they just don't want to believe Apple could be declining in some key areas, or at the very least, changing a lot in ways that may turn off many long time fans.

(I'm trying to be charitable, but introducing new hardware reliability issues in exchange for very marginal gains in thinness is objectively awful)

 

[Nilhum]

Isn't that kind of stating the obvious? Of course it will fail at some point, everything will. The question is how many, and whether it's likely to be <1 year which is not acceptable, or >3 years which people should expect.

Most keyboards for laptops rarely fail. Hell, at the price point of 2400+, this part should not fail at all. The Mac is supposedly a device that "just works" and you are paying a premium for that? What exactly am I paying a premium for now? The 2016 MacBook Pro is now on the list for the staingate problem that Apple is willing to replace, so another problem on top of that for such an expensive machine.
[doublepost=1512160752][/doublepost]

Really strong.

I think many are this way because they just don't want to believe Apple could be declining in some key areas, or at the very least, changing a lot in ways that may turn off many long time fans.

(I'm trying to be charitable, but introducing new hardware reliability issues in exchange for very marginal gains in thinness is objectively awful)

At this point they will justify anything. You can be a fan and should criticizes when the time comes for it. Though, I am not sure why I am complaining on a website dedicated to Apple products.

 

[Ogomez986]

This is absolute nonsense. No one should expect a keyboard to fail after 3 years especially considering the premium we are paying for these Pro models...

Just as he explained in a previous post, he means after 3 years. Could be 5, 10, 15 years or a lifetime that it'll stop working.

 

[Nixir]

Just as he explained in a previous post, he means after 3 years. Could be 5, 10, 15 years or a lifetime that it'll stop working.

The point being: perhaps a very reasonable, and indeed what most consumers expect, is for the keyboard on a laptop to last for however long the computer itself is serviceable. This "amazing" feat had been achieved many years ago by Apple, and by manufactures much lesser than Apple, until the recent fiasco.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
The thread is getting derailed with discussions regarding the iPhone X, please stay on topic

 

[turbineseaplane]

Edit: Just wanted to clarify that I've actually loved the keyboard and the entire machine since day one, I'm not one of the people who's been overly paranoid or worried about it.

Is it really being overly paranoid or worried when, in just the first year of your usage you have this to say?

I thought I was in the clear by now but nope

After going so long without any issues at all this makes me wonder if every single one of our keyboards is destined to fail after enough usage.

We really need to expect much better from Apple

 

[GtrDude]

This is closer to my experience with Lenovo keyboards and their laptops in general.

That's been my exact experience too.

Can't tell you how many times I've dropped liquids on my ThinkPad keyboard, mostly coffee.
Plus it's one time it fell on the concrete parking lot from about 6 foot height.

I doubt my 2017 MBP would survive even a drop of water.

One MBP I had, 2015, accidentally fell about 8 inches right into my dog's water bowl that had about 1/2 an inch of water in it....its never come on after that.

But I'm sure you can tell stories like that on both sides.

I like Macs because of the OS and how reliable it is. That's why I keep buying them.

I don't think their hardware is any better put together than equally priced laptops from other manufacturers.

 

[xanderx007]

Just get a backup keyboard.

 

[canuckRus]

I've been using my 2016 13" TB MacBook Pro since release, November 2016. I've used it 60+ hours per week since I use it for work as a software engineer, and it's my personal computer as well.

I thought I was in the clear by now but nope, my "r" key is starting to act up by not registering at times or double registering upon releasing the key. After going so long without any issues at all this makes me wonder if every single one of our keyboards is destined to fail after enough usage.

Just thought I'd share incase anyone wants to reconsider purchasing Apple Care before their warranty is up.

Edit: Just wanted to clarify that I've actually loved the keyboard and the entire machine since day one, I'm not one of the people who's been overly paranoid or worried about it.

Perhaps useful?
http://www.webholism.com/blog/sara/macbook-pro-keys-suddenly-stopped-working/

 

[Queen6]

Just get a backup keyboard.

Just purchase a notebook that's fit for purpose...

Q-6

 

[xanderx007]

Just purchase a notebook that's fit for purpose...

Q-6

The laptop's already there, which is working except for the keyboard. IT's quite impractical to get a new laptop just because the keyboard isn't working.

Its the same in my case. I have a 2011 MBP. When the keyboard started failing, I got a wireless one as backup. Every now and then though, the main keyboard functions as if nothing's wrong, like right now.