I want a powerbook that can run osx and xp perfectly, would a G5 powerbook be able to

[tadpole]

TEG, think before you say stuff

Okay dude, the fact that most people in your dorm have NIMDA says that 1.) Your university has a crappy firewall up. 2.) People are irresponsible about their machines, most viruscan suites with the most up to date dat files will catch Nimda. 3.) Personal firewalls are free.

Okay about your OSX worship, look, it claims to be UNIX, but it is not POSIX compliant. So for it to be more amendable for the porting of various Unix software, it must rachet its kernal up a notch. I believe that FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD were all based on SVR2 kernals, so was mach. They have since added modern modules with the latest builds, but it is still nonetheless behind the modern Unix's like Solaris which is post SVR5. Furthermore, when you attack a PC you must make a distinction between the hardware and the software. When I run my AMD with Mandrake, I have a machine that is mad fast, stable and looks darn nice with Gnome. If you think that Apple is the end all be all with hardware, then where is the DDR? and why do the graphics chipsets appear in the so called PC world first? Geforce/ATI all made their chipsets public on PC's first. Also, a Mac is a PC! Your frontside bus is already a generation behind in speed, so no matter how much you pump up the CPU, the bottle neck in the FSB is going to be there. Sure, you can say that the G5 is going to solve all of this, sure you can worship vaporware, but where does that get you?

Children like to harp about how nice their toys are, in the big world, kiddo, if we want Unix, not unix-like, we go with AIX, Solaris and IRIX, not OSX. Have you even compiled a kernel mod before? Do you even know how to mount journaling file systems? Do you even know the difference between a workstation class graphics chipset and your everyday video chipset? Kid, have you ever constructed your own Unix box? or Any box?

Thats right, kiddo, shut up.

 

[spikey]

I know microsoft did have a hell of alot of Apples shares.
But i dont think they have them any more, no?

just trying to confuse the boards even more than they are already.

 

[spikey]

Yeah you are right tadpole.
but people shouldnt bash OSX just because it doesnt do something it wasnt made to do.
You people (whoever you are) shouldnt be comparing OSX to solaris, 2 different things for different purposes really. OSX does what it was meant to do, and reasonably well, apart from quartz which is ok but not the best.

The G5 will bring a new era to apple computing, the G5 will bring with it DDR, which will inturn bring with it a faster FSB. It will leave the delayed Hammer series in the ****.
But as you say, for now its all vapourware.

 

[networkman]

in defense of TEG

the worship of os x is fine even though tadpole doesn't seem to think the hardware and software is "up to date"...the problem i have more than that is that os x takes a lot of ram and i can't use it on my old rev a ibook comfortably...i think that is more pertinent to many thousands of users than if a box has ddr ram

most consumers, the ones who have the spending power in high tech, don't even know that there are different types of ram

i always love to see the perspective of a "student" spouting off "hypothetical" facts as if they were important but wait until you become a techie in the real working world, tadpole, and see what facts are important

i see students say that because sgi boxes are better than windows boxes, they should be the one taking over...it's not about who is the best, this is business, not a hardware/software competition

if you are a computer science student, realize that you will have to unlearn most of what your professors told you unless they are in the field working right now and teaching on the side

i have a couple of college degrees and industry certifications and i teach also so i am certainly not down on education

and realize that unix may be cool in theory and in practice in your ivory tower cocoon (like beOS), but the real world runs windows with all its flaws and downsides and apple's os x is used more than all the other flavors of unix combined

my unix, linux, and beos friends are out of work in silicon valley because they refuse to go where the market is and would rather work at starbucks and be "those superior unix dudes" and knock windows and apple all day long (but there is something to be said for those true "believers" out of the mainstream, too, since woz was one)

but are you willing to be a starving innovator? (woz made out ok because he was lucky enough to know steve jobs)

this is not a criticism, but just put in a decade or two in the working world, see how it sucks, and you may get a better perspective before you attack TEG

but both of you have pertinent points and if others look carefully at your two posts, they are not necessarily in conflict against each other

 

[Pelorus]

Re: mozez is right

Originally posted by tadpole
hey guys, i hate to tell you all, but the Moz man is valid. there is a lot of Mac "jingoism" going on here. If you want hard raw data, just check out the latest SpecInt numbers.

SpecInt doesn't tell me how hard and fast I can work. I can only tell that. And on an apprently slower machine (according to SpecInt), I can work faster. How is that?
All SpecInt tells you is how good that processor is at performing the SpecInt benchmark.
Jingoism? Pah.

as for me, I've been a lifelong PC man

I'd be curious why you're trolling around here?

with a healthy respect for Unix boxes, I'm a biochem major, so we need fast brawny brutual machines to model proteins, i run linux, solaris, irix and xp. i was for the longest time hoping like the rest of you all for a nice cheap 64bit unix box from Apple (G5 with OSX sans the crappy UI)

"sans the crappy UI" would mean Darwin and not OSX. Duh. I'm curious what part of protein modelling needs "brutual" (sic) machines. The guys in the local genetics lab get along fine with low end PPCs. The actual "modelling" needs a good graphics card it's true but didn't you see mathematica at MacWorld?

but alas, this may not be, and Sun is selling a 64bit box for $795 academic price with an UltraSparc processor.

Uh, then buy one. It's only an UltraII, that doesn't include a screen and at the end of the day you end up with...Solaris. Whoop de doo...

you know what my schtick with OS10 is? Its not a standard unix,

Oh this will be a good one.

I've been getting a lot of data from the boys down in the university networking/tech dept. and the concensus is, she's not entirely posix compatible.

POSIX !=UNIX. According to the Open Group who know a bit about UNIX, Mac OS X is a UNIX.

i would like to see a full on Unix OS from Apple, perhaps a pro version of OS10 without glitz of the wholly inefficient yet eye candy UI and a lot of the raw power that I can get from a tricked up version of Linux or standard Solaris (btw Solaris 9 is coming out, and she's a beautiful beast!). So lay off of Mozez, he's in his right to cut down on the uneducated consumers out there. Suck it up yo!

If you want Linux, then keep it. If you want Solaris then keep it. If you want a Mac, you know where to go.
And I've seen development Solaris 9. It's nice. If you liked Solaris 8, that is.

I prefer something that copes with portables well (No, sorry, I've seen Linux on a portable and "well" doesn't cover it) and looks good (Solaris? Bwahahhahhahha) and is a Mac (duh.)

Isn't it nice that you don't have to go with OSX now? You can stay with Linux and Solaris.

 

[DavidCL23]

what is NIMDA?

 

[evildead]

like everyone said... SLOW

You will never geable to emulate an OS "perfectly". The nature of emulation just wont alow it. Its not like your emulating NES or something like that on a computer that is 10 years newer and 1000 times faster. I have XP on my Mac running in VPC 5.0 and it is slow!! I have 98 and 2000 running also and they run ok. Probably faster than my Win2000 Box at work (1Ghz PIII) but its still slower than OS X.

You will be able to use windows with alomost no problems on a new Mac (yes a new G5 when ever that happens) But it will not run "perfectly".

 

[Pelorus]

Re: TEG, think before you say stuff

Originally posted by tadpole
it claims to be UNIX, but it is not POSIX compliant.

Hardly a requirement. Again, check with the Open Group. They know a bit more about UNIX than some weenies down in a university network department.

So for it to be more amendable for the porting of various Unix software, it must rachet its kernal up a notch.

Really. Howso? Something technical to share about Mach?

I believe that FreeBSD/OpenBSD/NetBSD were all based on SVR2 kernals, so was mach. They have since added modern modules with the latest builds, but it is still nonetheless behind the modern Unix's like Solaris which is post SVR5.

Mate, by exactly the same logic, Solaris was based on an SVR2 kernel. You think that the BSDs have stood still?

Besides - your comment about SVR2 kernels and Mach shows that you're out of your league. Mach, FWIW, doesn't come from the same lineage as any of the System V kernels.

Furthermore, when you attack a PC you must make a distinction between the hardware and the software. When I run my AMD with Mandrake, I have a machine that is mad fast, stable and looks darn nice with Gnome. If you think that Apple is the end all be all with hardware, then where is the DDR? and why do the graphics chipsets appear in the so called PC world first? Geforce/ATI all made their chipsets public on PC's first. Also, a Mac is a PC! Your frontside bus is already a generation behind in speed, so no matter how much you pump up the CPU, the bottle neck in the FSB is going to be there. Sure, you can say that the G5 is going to solve all of this, sure you can worship vaporware, but where does that get you?

I'll bet I'm faster at working with my 400MHz Pismo than I am with your souped up Mandrake Machine. And that's what matters. You might find the reverse to be true and that's why we have choice.
By all means stick with your Mandrake. I've been there and decided that it rained too much. I went back to somewhere I could write books with real layout software, draw diagrams with real transparency, get email that looked beautiful and be able to do all of this on a laptop with decent power management.
Oh yeah, and Mac OS X has REAL transparent terminals and not what passes for transparency in the Gnome world.

Children like to harp about how nice their toys are, in the big world, kiddo, if we want Unix, not unix-like, we go with AIX, Solaris and IRIX, not OSX. Have you even compiled a kernel mod before? Do you even know how to mount journaling file systems? Do you even know the difference between a workstation class graphics chipset and your everyday video chipset? Kid, have you ever constructed your own Unix box? or Any box?
Thats right, kiddo, shut up.

If you want UNIX you'd never go near Linux. What's your point? UNIX and "unix-like" are just trademarking terms.
I've compiled a kernel - built it myself with the bits i needed. Done it on Linux and HP-UX. It was ...completely underwhelming.
On Mac OS X you would mount the journaling file system the same way as any other file system - that's why modern UNICES have a VFS.

Lastly. You don't expect that your preaching and telling someone to shut up will actually work? Oh. You do.

You're funny.

 

[SPG]

For the record. Microsoft no longer owns any Apple shares.
Repeat after me: Microsoft no longer owns any Apple shares.
Thank you.

 

[StealthRider]

Why?

Why do you even WANT to get a PowerBook w/ OS X, and, God Forbid, Microsloth Windoze XP? Just go to Dell and get a nice little $600 P4 workstation. THat runs XP, and is horrendously cheap.

 

[networkman]

this will get me killed

...but if the dell is so cheap, then get it

it's really best if you get a mac and a dell or other pc and then you have the best of both worlds

but if i had to choose one, i would get the mac and have virtual pc even though some say it doesn't run fast enough but the computing world is still full of noticeable compromises

 

[chicagdan]

Or better yet buy a PS-2, Gamecube or XBox for the games and keep the Mac. I need a PC to play some sports sim games not available on consoles or the Mac, but an old, cheap PII is more than enough power for the games I play. For high-octane games, the new generation of consoles kills anything on Mac or PC.

 

[evildead]

If I....

If I absolutly had to get a WinBox...

I would get one for cheep (maybe a Dell if I could get over those Dam "Dude" commerchals) And run a dual boot with RedHat 7.2 and XP. I currently have a 200Mhz PI laptaop from NEC that I use when I need to run stuff that requires an x86. Coding in Assemboly for an x86 is a bit hard running VPC Its slow but it works most of the time. Im thinking of running a Linux server soon ..... hmmmm

 

[Onyxx]

the world of Unix

First off I would like to say great post by Pelorus. People can run their suped up, screaming fast, minimaly supported, linux based machines, but where do they get software from? I am a Pismo user as well and people still wonder how i do all that i have with this 1 small machine. Sometimes it's not the speed, its how eficiantly it is used.

 

[evildead]

UNIX

UNIX is very powerfull and stable but its not a desktop. Same thing with Linux. UNIX and linux may rule the server world but .... thats not what we are talking about. OS X is a desktop OS, true OS X server is out but I wonder how well it does ( i just really dont know). Currently Apple does not have the hardware to match UNIX systems... but Who cares! I love my mac and I love OS X. It does what it was desined to do and well. I think its great that its built on BSD UNIX but I am fully aware that it is not the same UNIX that I have running on my clustered enterprice level servers at work. I love going home to OS X after a long day at the terminal

 

[networkman]

it is smart that apple stayed in the home, education, and design desktop business

compaq got the bright idea of shifting some more of its vast resources for the "server world" and that move almost killed them, and still may end their run in the high tech business

 

[PyroTurtle]

The GeeForce 3 came out on Mac's first....
ATI was mac first for a long time....
all of these arguments are basicaly pointless anyway...
use whats comfortable, and that's all that matters....
whatever YOU think it was you need to prosper and work efficently, then use that....