I wasn't expecting this: PC RETURNING SWITCHERS!!!

[MacQuest]

I have started seeing customers who are within their "return policy" timeframe bringing back their recently purchased windoze desktop pc's and exchanging them for Mac's.

I can only imagine that this little "secret" is gonna get out and we'll be seeing a lot more of this over the next couple of weeks.

This could be bad for Apple inventory in the short term, but obviously very good for Apple and our Macintosh platform's installed base overall.

 

[Motley]

Um, yeah!

I wonder if this will be new trend.
I have a friend who was staunchly anti-mac, then one day I found out his comp had an OSX theme. I even heard him grudgingly complement OSX. If he can do the dual-boot thing for games, I just might be able to convert him!

 

[Kingsly]

This is good news. *kicks self for not buying more AAPL when I had the chance*

 

[dmw007]

A nice trend to see emerge.

Thanks for the good news MacQuest!

 

[dmw007]

This is good news. *kicks self for not buying more AAPL when I had the chance*

Same thought here- should have bought more Apple stock.

 

[Chris Bangle]

Noooo. I dont want to see more mac users. At school here in the UK Im unique as im one the only people who uses a mac. Im also loved by the art department because im one of the only person whos knows how to use the emacs..... I dont want apple to lose its exclusivity. There are people who think that any/all mp3 player are ipod,, they dont deserve macs.. Sorry if im being horrible but its true. Its like Bugatti and Rolls Royce,,, they need to be careful who buy buys there products and not think about money all the time.

 

[Icedog]

Noooo. I dont want to see more mac users. At school here in the UK Im unique as im one the only people who uses a mac. Im also loved by the art department because im one of the only person whos knows how to use the emacs..... I dont want apple to lose its exclusivity. There are people who think that any/all mp3 player are ipod,, they dont deserve macs.. Sorry if im being horrible but its true. Its like Bugatti and Rolls Royce,,, they need to be careful who buy buys there products and not think about money all the time.

You should worry more about your grammar than the wrong people buying Macs

 

[MacQuest]

UPDATE and ONE MORE THING...

UPDATE:

Since Thursday, these are the returns I have seen:

2 - Sony VAIO desktops, both for 20" iMacs

1 - HP 17" notebook for MacBook Pro 2.0Ghz (realized the 17" HP "building block" was too big and heavy, at first was dissapointed that 17" MacBook isn't out yet, but ultimately was very satisfied with the MBP)

1 - eMachine desktop for Mac Mini Core Duo

2 - Toshiba Satellite notebooks, both for MacBook Pro 1.83Ghz

1 - Compaq notebook for 17" iMac (must've not really needed portability)

1 - Gateway Athlon X2 desktop for 17" iMac (was a self proclaimed "gamer", but apparently didn't care about upgradeability after having tested Half Life 2 on our 20" iMac which we "Boot Camped" with eXPee]

This "PCRS" (PC Returning Switcher) movement in combination with our normal Mac sales, our Intel Mac stock is now almost all gone (only 1-17" iMac and 2-Mac Mini Core Solos remain as of closing on Saturday night). Now we are taking pre-paid orders and scurrying to scrounge stock from other sources, but most of them are reporting the same issue and/or are not willing to give up their on-hand stock in anticipation of this occuring to them in the next few days.

I'm also hearing of a lot more inquiries (by both the former miCrapsoft apologists/winBlows Lusers within my workplace AND "serious" gamer/professional customers) about when the PowerMacs (MacPros) will go Intel.

I think we're in for a great fall and winter sales season if our entire Mac lineup goes 64-bit Intel [Merom - mobile, Conroe - desktop, Woodcrest - server) around September/October, following the August WWDC announcements.

If Apple is able to ship Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard by Thanksgiving's "Black Friday" or the new "Cyber Monday" immediately following Black Friday...

GAME OVER!!!

(for those who don't know, Vista will not make it onto peecee's this holiday season and will debut at the earliest in january '07. Also, the specs are so high for so little in return, that it is expected, even by miCrapsoft, that most people/businesses won't bother to upgrade to vista until their next computer purchases, 2-3+ years down the line)

ONE MORE THING:

I was looking into a "price-match" with a couple of other computer stores, and I noticed that CompUSA is advertising Boot Camp right smack in the middle of BOTH their desktop AND notebook online store webpages!!!

Desktops: http://www.compusa.com/products/products.asp?N=200005&Ne=200000

NoteBooks: http://www.compusa.com/products/products.asp?N=200334&Ne=200000

TALK ABOUT PUBLICITY!!!

 

[Chris Bangle]

Oh my days icedog you sound like my dad... More importantly Macquest when are new ipods coming....but more importantly Mac neeeds to rech to distant pc users.. the ones who dont care about technology... the ones who dont mind what they use and end up using 5 year old dells.. Apple needs to advertise to the very normal pc user and tell them that the mac mini is cheap.

 

[MacQuest]

More importantly Macquest when are new ipods coming....

They are due for a refresh as of yester-month [iPod videos were introduced last October and 6 months is fairly normal for Apple to update iPods, which would have been March].

I dunno though. I'm guessing that we'll get both new MacBook and vPod[?] announcements within the next 2 weeks. Apple undoubtedly will be busy the last week of April with NAB ( http://www.nabshow.com/ ) showing off the new Universal Binary (UB) of Final Cut Studio, definately advertising Boot Camp, probably announcing a UB of Aperture and other new or exisitng Apple Pro apps like Shake, and hopefully will introduce the new 17" MacBook Pros.

I still think/HOPE we'll see a widescreen 13" MBP, because they heavily emphasized the importance of the 12" PowerBook for highly mobile professional photographers/HD-videographers who need to be able to go out into remote and rugged locations and can't be lugging around a 15" PowerBook. I know that hasn't changed, and the 12" PB was a great seller as far as I know. What better time to introduce the smaller 13" MBP that they marketed towards those professionals than alongside a newly introduced UB of Aperture for the photographers and the already available UB of FCS?

Hopefully we'll have immediate availablilty for the vPods, and the MacBooks will ship within a month and a half of their introduction [mid-late May] in time to get in the hands of summer session students [1st half of June], which would be great advertising for the fall students who'll be looking to purchase 3 months later.

It would be cool if Apple would offer a student combo discount (iPod+Mac) like they have in the past. I think that would really boost sales for both devices

...but more importantly (Apple) neeeds to rech to distant pc users...Apple needs to advertise to the very normal pc user...

Agreed by pretty much everyone on these forums AFAIK. I really think that we will see a huge advertising campaign by Apple for both Macs and "Pods" (hopefully showing both being used together), after WWDC in August and in time for Fall's back to school season [late August/early September], when all Macs [notebooks, desktops, servers] will be running on 64-bit Intel chips.

3 months later and going into the holiday season [October/November], I'll expect to see a huge advertising campaign for 10.5 Leopard, and that's when the general public will learn what the official name for Boot Camp will be... of course we mac users will have found out prior to that though.

 

[Cabbit]

UPDATE:
1 - Gateway Athlon X2 desktop for 17" iMac (was a self proclaimed "gamer", but apparently didn't care about upgradeability after having tested Half Life 2 on our 20" iMac which we "Boot Camped" with eXPee]TALK ABOUT PUBLICITY!!!

The guy plays games and he gave up a athlon x2 system for a 17 inch imac with a low end(yip the x1600 is now low end). A real gammer would first build there own computer with SLi and a lot of ram and a Athlon X2, second only have a mac as a work machine its a waste for a gameing computer. You cant put 4 graphics cards in a powermac nevermind 2, therefor Mac's are for work. Quad SLi, PPU's, and Athlon X2/FX are for gameing pc's with windows or linux+cedega.

 

[MacQuest]

1 - Gateway Athlon X2 desktop for 17" iMac (was a self proclaimed "gamer", but apparently didn't care about upgradeability after having tested Half Life 2 on our 20" iMac which we "Boot Camped" with eXPee]TALK ABOUT PUBLICITY!!!

The guy plays games and he gave up a athlon x2 system for a 17 inch imac with a low end(yip the x1600 is now low end). A real gammer would first build there own computer with SLi and a lot of ram and a Athlon X2, second only have a mac as a work machine its a waste for a gameing computer.

Tell me about it. That's why I put next to where I stated that that person didn't care about upgradeability. I'm not a gamer, but even I wouldn't get any non-upgradeable (especially video card) computer [Mac or winBlows) and call myself a "gamer".

With possiby the exception of Ubuntu [if Google helps develop it into a mature, supported OS], all 20 million Linux distros are gonna get kicked to the curb in no time now that Macintosh computers can run all OS's on one box and OS X runs circles around both winBlows and all linux [linii?]. Linux had it's chance to takeover, but Apple's established name and Mac's stability combined with it's ease of use and new ability to be compared side by side with any OS on one box, means that it will be stomping on Red Hat and pimp slappin' SuSE.

We'll be eatin' penguin ka-bob for dinner, as it has now been fileted by our little red devil chef, "FreeBSD".

All I gotta say, is when the upgradeable tower design PowerMacs [Mac Pros?] go 64-bit Duo and Quad Intel in September, that whole "AMD is sooo much better than Intel" argument is gonna be sooo not true.

You cant put 4 graphics cards in a powermac nevermind 2, therefor Mac's are for work. Quad SLi, PPU's, and Athlon X2/FX are for gameing pc's with windows or linux+cedega.

Macs are for anyone who wants a reliable [unlike winBlows], simplified and easily supported [unlike linux] computer. After September, buying a Mac will be like getting either 2 computers [if you run winBlows with Mac OS X], 3 computers [if you run winBlows, linux, and Mac OS X], or more than 3 computers [if you run those 3 OS's and anyother ones http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/ ]

Wait until Apple's August announcements at WWDC and when the new Mac Pros [PowerMac replacements] start shipping in September/October.

In the words of The Fantastic 4's "The Thing":

"It's CLOBBERIN' time!"

 

[Cabbit]

Tell me about it. That's why I put next to where I stated that that person didn't care about upgradeability. I'm not a gamer, but even I wouldn't get any non-upgradeable (especially video card) computer [Mac or winBlows) and call myself a "gamer".

Linux is gonna get kicked to the curb in no time now that Macintosh computers can run all OS's on one box and OS X runs circles around both winBlows and linux.

All I gotta say, is when the upgradeable tower design PowerMacs [Mac Pros?] go 64-bit Duo and Quad Intel in September, that whole "AMD is sooo much better than Intel" argument is gonna be sooo not true.



Wait until Apple's August announcements at WWDC and when the new Mac Pros [PowerMac replacements] start shipping in September/October.

In the words of The Fantastic 4's "The Thing":

"It's CLOBBERIN' time!"

Sorry but about linux, linux can run native windows games in linux without installing windows with CEDEGA, i allready asked them were not getting it for mac, Linux is free and will always have its place as the most reliable and stable, difficult to set up but once it is set up it generly stays that way. I love mac for the design and property application support. But stability and security and prefomance compared to linux, well mac is a close second. And i still dont know why linux can run on almost the same amout of hardware as windows, but more stable and secure, with a huge app database, and property support with use of crossover office, when mac is locked into Mac only hardware. If Apple limit it to 64bit only then they could get the market wile its young, 64bit means that your removeing AGP and PCI and only really working on PCI express hardware building up your driver base for that and USB2 only. There are only few chipsets out there and every motherboard it just a diffrent take on the refrence design. Tell Motherboard manufatorers to make Mac only version motherboards with all the useless windows stuff removed, you could create a huge mac market. Leave servers to linux thats a good place for it. servers, HTPC's, specialised workstations, geek pc's, low income pc's, linux/unix development.

 

[MacQuest]

Linux is...difficult to set up.

That's why it will be stagnant. "Welcome" zero-config servers, workstations, and thin clients... or should I say, "BonJour"?
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bonjour/

But stability and security and prefomance compared to linux, well mac is a close second.

Stability and security, Mac is a "close second" to linux? Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

OS X's performance can definately use some work. I think we'll see performance parity between it and linux in Leopard. Once that playing field is leveled though, it's all about features, and that's were Apple will shine.

when mac is locked into Mac only hardware.

This is why Macintosh will always be more stable and secure than linux and especially windows. The 2 most important parts of any computer are the OS and it's hardware. Tight and seamless integration between those two components translates into a much higher level of quality control than anyother OS's that are trying to be the "Jack of all trades", but are just the "Master of none".

Once you've got a strong foundation built from the hardware and it's OS, than you can confidently build on that foundation with equally reliable applications like iLife, Final Cut Studio, etc.

Seamless integration from the ground up is the answer IMO:

Macs:
Hardware = configured by Apple
OS = developed by Apple to work with seamlessly with it's hardware
Applications - easy to use/high quality software developed by Apple* to work seamlessly with it's OS and hardware

*I'm not saying other developers can't make good software that integrates well with mac OS, but they better get it right or risk having Apple do it right for them [Remember, Adobe Premiere? Apple's Final Cut Pro took the video editing industry over almost over night]

PC's:
Hardware = configured by [a]budget manufacturer, quality manufacturer [in which case they're no better or cheaper than Apple], or [c] "Franken Designed" by either [a]an amateur on a budget, an amateur who buys all the best parts but is still an amateur therefore nullifying the "quality" aspect of the computer, or [c] someone who actually knows what they're doing when building a computer, but this is a [comparably to all others] a very small market that is limited to those who want to learn, but with pre-configured, quality component computer prices that can actually be whatever computer you need it to be, whenever you need it to be it, coming down [Macs], I'm gonna say this "custom-built" segment will at best stay where it is, but more than likely decrease significanly.

OS = winBlows ['nuff said] / linux [which frickin' distro should I use and who do I call for support?!... What? Macs can run all of them and I can choose which suits me best?!] Again... 'nuff said.

Applications - [maybe] easy to use / [maybe] high quality software [more often than not, bargain-bin, "my first attempt at making an application" throwaway junk] developed by [insert fly-by-night programmer/developer name here] and doesn't work seamlessly with [insert unstable or unsupported/spread-to-thin distro] OS and/or [low/medium/high quality, amateur or small percentage, quickly diminishing, soon to be obsolete knowledgeable Franken-Designer's] hardware.

If Apple limit it to 64bit only then they could get the market wile its young, 64bit means that your removeing AGP and PCI and only really working on PCI express hardware building up your driver base for that and USB2 only.

I like this idea and this would be inline with Apple's streamlined approach. I'm still think Apple is gonna stand by it's Firewire protocol though, despite having dropped FireWire 800 from the MacBook Pro. Firewire's "peer-to-peer" connectivity is still much better than USB's "master-slave" connectivity for sustained data throughput speeds among multiple devices.

There are only few chipsets out there and every motherboard it just a diffrent take on the refrence design. Tell Motherboard manufatorers to make Mac only version motherboards with all the useless windows stuff removed, you could create a huge mac market.

Yeah, we wish.

We won't be able to even contemplate this for a few years at least. I really think that Boot Camp's introduction this week is the beginning of "the thinning of the herd" as far as pc hardware manufacturers go. I would love to see gateway [again] and eMachines go out of business within the next couple of years [sooner = better]. Followed by Compaq, Acer, Fujitsu, and Sony [unlike the others, Sony has got plenty of other products to keep their doors open]. Then Dell and Toshiba.

That is the order of my dislike towards pc manufacturers [with the exception of Dell who I would have put first, but they're gonna take longer to topple. Not because their products are better, but because their propoganda is].

I've always kind of liked Toshiba... except for the whole "they use winBlows" thing.

Leave servers to linux thats a good place for it. servers, HTPC's, specialised workstations, geek pc's, low income pc's, linux/unix development.

I'll agree with leaving linux for geeks, but that's about it. Again, stagnant growth or ever diminishing into insignificance or extinction.

Apple's Boot Camp move is gonna be way too enticing for the enterprise market that [although it's not talked about very much] already has been jumping on Apple's XServe, XRaid, XSan, $499 - 10 user/$999 - unlimited user Mac OS X licence enterprise solutions.

These enterprise switches will become very public and much more frequent in the next couple of years. Besides it being reported by Digitimes , if this has any truth to it, then we may even see the mass enterprise migration go public even sooner:

https://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060327125521.shtml

Low income pc's, Apple will take that market. Mac Mini, revolutionary new "MacPod/MacPad/Mac Mobile" computing device [pda/tablet hybrid aka hOrridgami killer].

Specialized workstations, Apple can cover as well.

linux development? Unnecessary. Unix development? Go work for Apple.

 

[Whiteapple]

That's why it will be stagnant. "Welcome" zero-config servers, workstations, and thin clients... or should I say, "BonJour"?
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/bonjour/



Stability and security, Mac is a "close second" to linux? Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

OS X's performance can definately use some work. I think we'll see performance parity between it and linux in Leopard. Once that playing field is leveled though, it's all about features, and that's were Apple will shine.



This is why Macintosh will always be more stable and secure than linux and especially windows. The 2 most important parts of any computer are the OS and it's hardware. Tight and seamless integration between those two components translates into a much higher level of quality control than anyother OS's that are trying to be the "Jack of all trades", but are just the "Master of none".

Once you've got a strong foundation built from the hardware and it's OS, than you can confidently build on that foundation with equally reliable applications like iLife, Final Cut Studio, etc.

Seamless integration from the ground up is the answer IMO:

Macs:
Hardware = configured by Apple
OS = developed by Apple to work with seamlessly with it's hardware
Applications - easy to use/high quality software developed by Apple* to work seamlessly with it's OS and hardware

*I'm not saying other developers can't make good software that integrates well with mac OS, but they better get it right or risk having Apple do it right for them [Remember, Adobe Premiere? Apple's Final Cut Pro took the video editing industry over almost over night]

PC's:
Hardware = configured by [a]budget manufacturer, quality manufacturer [in which case they're no better or cheaper than Apple], or [c] "Franken Designed" by either [a]an amateur on a budget, an amateur who buys all the best parts but is still an amateur therefore nullifying the "quality" aspect of the computer, or [c] someone who actually knows what they're doing when building a computer, but this is a [comparably to all others] a very small market that is limited to those who want to learn, but with pre-configured, quality component computer prices that can actually be whatever computer you need it to be, whenever you need it to be it, coming down [Macs], I'm gonna say this "custom-built" segment will at best stay where it is, but more than likely decrease significanly.

OS = winBlows ['nuff said] / linux [which frickin' distro should I use and who do I call for support?!... What? Macs can run all of them and I can choose which suits me best?!] Again... 'nuff said.

Applications - [maybe] easy to use / [maybe] high quality software [more often than not, bargain-bin, "my first attempt at making an application" throwaway junk] developed by [insert fly-by-night programmer/developer name here] and doesn't work seamlessly with [insert unstable or unsupported/spread-to-thin distro] OS and/or [low/medium/high quality, amateur or small percentage, quickly diminishing, soon to be obsolete knowledgeable Franken-Designer's] hardware.



{...}

Low income pc's, Apple will take that market. Mac Mini, revolutionary new "MacPod/MacPad/Mac Mobile" computing device [pda/tablet hybrid aka hOrridgami killer].

Specialized workstations, Apple can cover as well.

linux development? Unnecessary. Unix development? Go work for Apple.

Amen.

I have installed XP on my macbook. Damn, I thought I was an idiot, cuz i even tried to make the xp partition connect to the internet, which finally worked, after all this "windows needs to be able to configure wireless networks" BS (in OSX you enter the password of your aiport base station during the install of the OS, and that's IT).
I dont feel guilty at all, since when I read through pages in Safari, it's far better, and you get "two finger scrolling"...
Why am I saying all this? Because even though xp is way more "snappy", even though you dont have that many games on the OS, you always have the quality of a product, even though the "macintosh drivers" I think were made really quickly.
Xp: Occasional gaming, Office 2003 for heavy projects to type
OSX: everything else.

Apple made a good move, i think, because of the increasing amount of machines they are going to sell, which means "better to come for the consumer"

 

[Cabbit]

and hey if linuxs dies, bye bye apple networking, apatche, and a lot of other stuff in os x and server too. Remember your really just another *nix disto backpedeling on linux and unix technologys and open source.

 

[GFLPraxis]

and hey if linuxs dies, bye bye apple networking, apatche, and a lot of other stuff in os x and server too. Remember your really just another *nix disto backpedeling on linux and unix technologys and open source.

Don't be silly. If Linux were to die (very, very unlikely), hey, it's open source, Apple can just keep developing the code they have. It wouldn't be "bye bye".

 

[MacQuest]

and hey if linuxs dies, bye bye apple networking, apatche, and a lot of other stuff in os x and server too.

Oh, please. linux dies and Apple loses Apache, networking, and a lot of other stuff? Mac OS X uses the mach kernal and FreeBSD UNIX... again, UNIX. It is in no way dependent on any other variant of UNIX, which is just what every distro of linux is.

linux was just a middle man that gave x86 hardware users a better option than winBlows, but like winBlows, could never achieve the quality control of Macintosh between the hardware and OS.

Now that the hardware playing field has been leveled, it all comes down to features. A Mac can now run OS X, winBlows, and linux, with no hacks or emulation performance hits because of Intel's on-chip virtualization technology.

Yes, Mac OS X can be hacked onto a peecee, but as with winBlows and linux, if it looks like a hack, installs like a hack, and runs like a hack, then it must be a hack.

Remember your really just another *nix disto backpedeling on linux and unix technologys and open source.

Mac is a UNIX variant the same way every dime a dozen linux distro is, and yes it is mostly an Open Source project. So what? Open Source is a UNIX thing, linux has no more or less claim to it than Mac OS X does.

Mac OS X has nothing to do with linux and certainly is no way dependent on it, much less is OS X "backpedeling" off linux's inferior codebase and feature set.

gates and company have just gotten "written up" on their performance review and are "on notice" now.

Linus Torvalds and friends have just received their pink slips.

 

[Stella]

and hey if linuxs dies, bye bye apple networking, apatche, and a lot of other stuff in os x and server too. Remember your really just another *nix disto backpedeling on linux and unix technologys and open source.

Apache is nothing to do with Linux, its own organisation ( and does a great deal more than just the web server ) and supports Windows, and *nix ( not just Linux ). The same with other OSS such as Samba, CUPS et al.

OSS is NOT dependent on Linux.

If Linux dies ( which is highly unlikely ) , OSS will continue.

 

[MacQuest]

Okay, I need to clarify something.

I do not "hope" that the Linux community will disappear. I agree that it more than likely will not.

My pro-Mac/anti-Linux comments are referring to the fact that Linux had it's chance to takeover and squandered it's opportunity away through in-fighting [this distro is better than that distro]. Instead of unifying and becoming one big and strong giant, now there's a bunch of little guys and each can be regulated to stagnant growth or stomped out completely by another big and strong giant.

miCrapsoft has always been a big, weak giant. A "Baby Huey":
http://home.att.net/~thft/huey.htm

Apple is now a big, strong giant that can topple "Baby Huey" in it's naivety, and stunt the growth of all the Linux little guys by keeping them in check through continued innovation and helping to further develop any new Open Source projects that may arise.

Do you really think that customers [home, work, corporate buyers, and everyone in between] aren't going to breathe a collective sigh of relief on the news of Apple's new ability to run any or all OS's in any environment, and that there is one point of contact for any troubleshooting [when using Mac OS X] since Apple configures the hardware, the OS for that specific hardware, and applications for use on that OS and hardware combination?

The only people that will dislike the Mac option [as they always have] are the dime-a-dozen Devry & ITT micrapsoft "certifiables" who rely on winBlows' instability to keep them employed, and L*nixers who rely on the total ignorance of CEO's and CFO's in terms of technology purchases in order to get their x86 boxes and load their favorite distro on it.

Apple Macintosh has now become a one point of contact solution [again, when using Mac OS X] for users on all levels.

 

[Takumi]

Apple is now a big, strong giant

And new Zealand trades blows with the heavyweights in international politics.

 

[JFreak]

linux was just a middle man that gave x86 hardware users a better option than winBlows, but like winBlows, could never achieve the quality control of Macintosh between the hardware and OS.

You're so wrong. The problem with Linux is not and has never been quality. It IS a quality operating system, and gets better every day. Many have the opinion it's second to none, better than OSX. The problem with Linux is the lack of commercial software titles. Not many want to use software that has no official support of guarantees of future development. Yes, open source is a good thing, but will not suit everyone; commercial companies need to use commercial software, unless the company is so big (or so much in need of tailored software) that it can afford having in-house support and development people that cost less than the company saves from using open source.

Linux is a quality operating system, period.

 

[miniConvert]

You're so wrong. The problem with Linux is not and has never been quality. It IS a quality operating system, and gets better every day. Many have the opinion it's second to none, better than OSX. The problem with Linux is the lack of commercial software titles. Not many want to use software that has no official support of guarantees of future development. Yes, open source is a good thing, but will not suit everyone; commercial companies need to use commercial software, unless the company is so big (or so much in need of tailored software) that it can afford having in-house support and development people that cost less than the company saves from using open source.

Linux is a quality operating system, period.

I actually disagree, but not entirely.

Linux is a fantastic and essential operating system. I agree 100%. However, it is in my view an operating system for servers.

Desktop linux, whether via Gnome or KDE, is just awful. I've used several distros of linux in previous attempts to use something other than Windows for at least some of my day-to-day computing, as have others I know, but always failed to get to grips with them.

OS X on the other hand is a no-brainer. The usability is just infinitely better, which has to make OS X the superior desktop OS.

 

[Queso]

What's with this OSX vs. Linux rubbish?

OSX costs serious ££ as it only runs on Mac hardware. You can cobble together the hardware for a Linux machine for next to nothing, then install both the OS and a suite of apps for free.

The two OSs aren't even aiming at the same part of the market. The Mac wants the top 20%, Linux wants the bottom 20%.

Also don't forget that they both benefit from the existence of the other thanks to their integration of Open-Source packages, ease of porting software between the two and use of open standards. Anyone who thinks Linux isn't forging ahead hasn't been following what Novell are injecting into Suse, all of which will trickle down to Debian and Fedora based distros before too long. Linux is only now beginning to bulid up steam and is just as poised to gain serious market share as OSX is whilst Microsoft crumbles.

 

[MacQuest]

You're so wrong.

You're entitled to your opinion.

The problem with Linux is not and has never been quality. It IS a quality operating system, and gets better every day.

I don't doubt that. But better is relative to what you are comparing something to.

- winBlows '95 was better than winBlows 3.1.
CONCLUSION: winBlows '95 was better junk.

- Linux [whatever distro ] is better than the previous version of that same distro and/or probably is better than some or all of the "already too many" other Linux distros .
CONCLUSION: Linux [whatever distro ] is a better unsupported and questionable future development OS.

- Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger is better than 10.0 Cheetah was.
CONCLUSION: Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger wipes the pavement with both winBlows and Linux.

Many have the opinion it's second to none, better than OSX.

I'm sure that at least as many of those people who think Linux is better than OS X, don't think it is. Probably more think not though, especially now.

You see that on the horizon? It's the SS "OS Takeover Opportunity" boat. Linus Torvalds and friends missed it.

There's no "i" in team. Or more relevant to this topc, there's no team in Linux. Just a bunch of players playing their own games on the same field. You all should have picked the best players [distros], TEAMED UP, and started playing the same game together on the OS field with your best players knowing their strengths and weaknesses and positioning themselves accordingly.

Boot Camp [and it's finalized version in 10.5 Leopard], the various virtualization options now available for Mac OS X [and they're just gonna get better], the multitude of other consumer/commercial/enterprise software titles [from games to professional applications, server solutions, and everything in between, below, and above] that will now commit to the MUCH MORE VIABLE Macintosh platform, and especially Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard itself are gonna win over a whole crapload of "switchers" from winBlows [as has already been happening for several years], and now, Linux.

The problem with Linux is the lack of commercial software titles.

Yup. Why is that? Could it be the lack of a unified voice that can speak for all of the different distros? Confusion and uncertainty is bad for business, whether it's among developers deciding which distro they should develop for, or users deciding which distro to run.

Not many want to use software that has no official support of guarantees of future development.

BINGO!!!
Now take that to the bank and cash it! I think people feel comfortable that Apple, especially with the recent developments [Boot Camp, Parallel Wokstation, VMWare, possibly Virtual PC], can "guarantee official support of future development" for Mac OS X... and beyond.

Yes, open source is a good thing, but will not suit everyone; commercial companies need to use commercial software, unless the company is so big (or so much in need of tailored software) that it can afford having in-house support and development people that cost less than the company saves from using open source.

Ummm... yeah. Open Source and commercial software availability [which you have stated, and I know, is the major obstacle for Liinux] is good.

Linux is a quality operating system, period.

I agree. Oh wait... did you say "quality"? Then I disagree.

OS, Software Development, Hardware Configuration and the value of QUALITY CONTROL between all of those components:
LESSON #1:

- It's easy to make simple things difficult. Thats Linux and Windows.
- It's hard to make difficult things easy. That's Mac OS.