I wasn't expecting this: PC RETURNING SWITCHERS!!!

[MacQuest]

OSX costs serious ££ as it only runs on Mac hardware.

That is why we have unmatched quality control between the two most important parts of any computer, the OS and it's hardware. That quality control equates to stability, which equates to reliability, which equates to useability, which equates to user progression, which equates to user trust, which equates to user loyalty.

THAT is why you don't see Mac users switching to crappy winBlows [insert crappy winBlows Os here], or to confusing [which distro is best?!], difficult [I can't get this damn distro to install! Are you sure this is the best distro?!!], unsupported [what do you mean I don't have anyone to call or that can come out and fix my problems?!!!], and uncertain future [what do you mean my distro is stagnant and has ceased development?!!!! I was told this was the best distro!!!!!] Linux.

Crappy winBlows + [all of the above] Linux issues = Mac "Switcher"

Read my sig.

You can cobble together the hardware for a Linux machine for next to nothing, then install both the OS and a suite of apps for free.

Typical mindset from someone who just "doesn't get it".

- "You can cobble together the hardware..." [aka Frankensteined PC]

- "...install both the OS and a suite of apps for free" [e.g., "You get what you pay for"]

That is why you [Linux users] don't have Apple Macintoshes' crucial quality control between the OS and the hardware.

Read my sig.

The two OSs aren't even aiming at the same part of the market. The Mac wants the top 20%, Linux wants the bottom 20%.

Apple will provide Macintosh solutions for whatever user/market that demands a quality controlled, stable, secure, reliable, and one point of contact supported computing solution in any environment, from home LAN to international WAN, home to government and intercontinental entities alike.

Whether it's the simplest home user or the most knowledgeable network admin and all the users in between, that should[/b] be everyone.

Also don't forget that they both benefit from the existence of the other thanks to their integration of Open-Source packages, ease of porting software between the two and use of open standards.

I'm fully aware of that, and acknowledge both camps' accomplishments, past and present. My forward looking comments are based on my past and present experiences, which results in my foresight as too how I believe the future will evolve in the technology industry.

As I have stated previously in this thread:

"I do not "hope" that the Linux community will disappear. I agree that it more than likely will not.

My pro-Mac/anti-Linux comments are referring to the fact that Linux had it's chance to takeover and squandered it's opportunity away through in-fighting [this distro is better than that distro]. Instead of unifying and becoming one big and strong giant..."

Anyone who thinks Linux isn't forging ahead hasn't been following what Novell are injecting into Suse, all of which will trickle down to Debian and Fedora based distros before too long.

I'm sure that there is a lot to look forward to from the Linux camp. At least as much as there will be from Apple Developers.

Linux is only now beginning to bulid up steam and is just as poised to gain serious market share as OSX

Again, Linux will only achieve parity with Apple's current momentum if they were to achieve the same level of quality control from which this momentum has initiated.

The Linux community needs to first tightly unify it's developers, then take the best of all the distros and tighly unify those into one quality controlled Linux OS, seamlessy integrate that OS with known configuration computers, then build, market, and sell those quality controlled computer solutions amidst a strong ad campaign and through all available outlets [brick & mortar, online, etc.]
They have to configure their own hardware

whilst Microsoft crumbles.

YESSSSSSSS!!!

 

[Queso]

That is why...<snip> ... I was told this was the best distro!!!!!][/i] Linux.

The growth in Linux marketshare will not come from individual users. It will come from large organisations where a central team will pick and maintain which distro is suitable for the users. Banks & Government departments, each with their heavy use of UNIX for core functions, are good examples.

Typical mindset from someone who just "doesn't get it".

- "You can cobble together the hardware..." [aka Frankensteined PC]

- "...install both the OS and a suite of apps for free" [e.g., "You get what you pay for"]

That is why you [Linux users] don't have Apple Macintoshes' crucial quality control between the OS and the hardware.

All very well for those of us living in the world's top economies and working in companies where money is available, but what about for example the school system in Argentina? The school's can either buy a new Mac, by two second hand Macs, or get José from their town in to build them six cobbled together computers using older hardware components in the full knowledge that the state recommended Linux distro will work. Would you rather your child learned by using a computer, or by watching over the shoulder of someone else using it?

Apple will provide Macintosh solutions for whatever user/market that demands a quality controlled, stable, secure, reliable, and one point of contact supported computing solution in any environment, from home LAN to international WAN, home to government and intercontinental entities alike.

Whether it's the simplest home user or the most knowledgeable network admin and all the users in between, that should[/b] be everyone.

Yes, Apple will always provide a solution, but only if the user can afford it. As I put in my post, Desktop Linux is chasing the bottom 20% of the market.

My pro-Mac/anti-Linux comments are referring to the fact that Linux had it's chance to takeover and squandered it's opportunity away through in-fighting [this distro is better than that distro]. Instead of unifying and becoming one big and strong giant..."

OSX is now five years old, yet Apple only has a 4% market share. Does this mean Apple has squandered it's chances too? Until the last 12 months, GNU/Linux has not been ready for desktop deployment. It was a server OS. Organisations like Ubuntu have brought in the required managability, whilst allowing the various factions to maintain their input and continue to tailor the distro to their own needs. As a result, Desktop Linux now has direction and has leapt forward. There's still work needed on the interface, but with the developers rallying around a central focus, that work is now being tackled.

Again, Linux will only achieve parity with Apple's current momentum if they were to achieve the same level of quality control from which this momentum......and sell those quality controlled computer solutions amidst a strong ad campaign and through all available outlets [brick & mortar, online, etc.]
They have to configure their own hardware

As I've mentioned above, the unifying of developers is already occurring. I completely disagree on the sale of Linux hardware. You are attempting to project an Apple business model onto Linux, when the whole point of Desktop Linux is that it can breathe new life into older hardware and therefore allow those who would otherwise not have access to a computer to experience them firsthand. Once again, bottom 20% of the market.

YESSSSSSSS!!!

At least we agree on one thing anyway

 

[MacQuest]

All very well for those of us living in the world's top economies and working in companies where money is available, but what about for example the school system in Argentina? The school's can either buy a new Mac, by two second hand Macs, or get José from their town in to build them six cobbled together computers using older hardware components in the full knowledge that the state recommended Linux distro will work. Would you rather your child learned by using a computer, or by watching over the shoulder of someone else using it?

Good point. I can repect this philanthropic side of Linux that I was unaware of.

Yes, Apple will always provide a solution, but only if the user can afford it. As I put in my post, Desktop Linux is chasing the bottom 20% of the market.

I know you said Linux wanted the bottom 20% of the market in your previous post, yet I didn't quite understand what you considered top and bottom. Meaning, I've always heard Linux being associated with servers so I thought they wanted the high end enterprise market.

That's why I've previously stated to not under estimate Apple's Xserve, XRaid, XSan, $999 Mac OS X Server unlimited seat licensing, etc.

OSX is now five years old, yet Apple only has a 4% market share. Does this mean Apple has squandered it's chances too?

Not at all. But Linux has been around since the early '90's.

5 years to not only mature what I feel is the best OS, but to break into new markets through both hardware and software, re-define the music industry, and commence a war plan of "'domination through assimilation" like Apple just did with Boot Camp and others are helping it due through virtualization? I don't feel Apple has squandered anything.

Interesting to see that 4-5% market share figure though. It was still only 2-3% a couple of years ago. Doubling market share in 5 years though is nothing to sneeze at. And Apple has only just begun.

As I've mentioned above, the unifying of developers is already occurring. I completely disagree on the sale of Linux hardware. You are attempting to project an Apple business model onto Linux, when the whole point of Desktop Linux is that it can breathe new life into older hardware and therefore allow those who would otherwise not have access to a computer to experience them firsthand. Once again, bottom 20% of the market.

I'll believe that you and some others are targeting this. But I think there are a lot of Linux people out there who want the high end enterprise market and the big bucks.

At least we agree on one thing anyway (in reference to miCrapsoft crumbling)

There is no goal more important to me than this.

 

[Queso]

..Linux has been around since the early '90's.

5 years to not only mature what I feel is the best OS, but to break into new markets through both hardware and software, re-define the music industry, and commence a war plan of "'domination through assimilation" like Apple just did with Boot Camp and others are helping it due through virtualization? I don't feel Apple has squandered anything.

Interesting to see that 4-5% market share figure though. It was still only 2-3% a couple of years ago. Doubling market share in 5 years though is nothing to sneeze at. And Apple has only just begun.

I don't think even the most ardent Linux fans would deny that Apple's turnaround is remarkable, and has done a lot to break the Microsoft-only mindset that prevailed. To counter your point about OSX breaking into new markets though, you have to remember that many of those biotech firms etc. already had heavy exposure to NeXTStep, so the jump to OSX was actually less for them than it has been for most Mac users. It's in the consumer area where Apple's real progress has been made. Over 20 million home users now use UNIX. That's one hell of an achievement.

 

[bousozoku]

It seems to be quite interesting to a lot of people that they can run more than one operating system. At the South Orlando CompUSA yesterday, the rep. said that she sold 3 MacBook Pros that day. It's a very nice machine but I still like my PowerBook.

 

[Sirin]

Same thought here- should have bought more Apple stock.

Haha. You fools. I own more than 19% of AAPL.

NO ONE CAN STOP ME!!!

 

[Cabbit]

Ok i would just like to point this out for mac users that havent used linux for a wile, suse 10.1 is in rc1 after 9 betas. i would like to show you YAST2 witch is SUSE's control pannel a bit like OSX system prefrences. i.e all the tools to configure and mantain the computer are in this one tool and have been since SUSE 9.0 as far as i know. most of it like setting up a network or installing a application is clicking a check box and pressing "ok"

 

[MacQuest]

That's cool. Gettin' there at least.

But you gotta work on that Fischer-Price "my first cartooney OS" color scheme and the "I wannabe XP" GUI.

 

[Cabbit]

That's cool. Gettin' there at least.

But you gotta work on that Fischer-Price "my first cartooney OS" color scheme and the "I wannabe XP" GUI.

KDE 4 due sometime arround vista. fully 3D GUI built on how people use there computers aparently, doing something diffrent from tastbars and docks. As for the colour scheme, you can choose one of 20 from the style settings. and the icon size. But look out for KDE 4 and Gnome 3 form what i see so far they give aqua and vista a run for there money. As for the distro, keep an eye on opensuse.org suse is the most promiseing and gave me a extra hour on my laptop over window and 2 hours over any other linux distro, its also so easy to configure it puts osx to shame.

 

[MacQuest]

...its also so easy to configure it puts osx to shame.

If there is any configuration [no matter how "easy"] that needs to be done, then sorry but no, it does NOT put OS X to shame.

Read my sig and my cyber-lips:
"SEAMLESS INTEGRATION" [aka Quality Control] between the OS and it's hardware is the ONLY way that ANY computer could achieve the stability, security, and long term reliability that is the "Mac experience."

While you guys are working on "easier" configuration, Apple is already using zero-configuration for networked devices. They obviously don't need to worry about "easier" configuration between their Mac OS and Mac hardware because of... come on, say it with me... SEAMLESS INTEGRATION.

 

[Cabbit]

If there is any configuration [no matter how "easy"] that needs to be done, then sorry but no, it does NOT put OS X to shame.

Read my sig and my cyber-lips:
"SEAMLESS INTEGRATION" [aka Quality Control] between the OS and it's hardware is the ONLY way that ANY computer could achieve the stability, security, and long term reliability that is the "Mac experience."

While you guys are working on "easier" configuration, Apple is already using zero-configuration for networked devices. They obviously don't need to worry about "easier" configuration between their Mac OS and Mac hardware because of... come on, say it with me... SEAMLESS INTEGRATION.

you need to configure osx to turn web site hosting on, you need to set up samba networks, you need to set up software updates, shareing needs set up it not zero config. suse is exactly the smae but more simple than osx except that it demands a password before entering the system prefernces. off your high horse.

 

[briansolomon]

UPDATE:
ONE MORE THING:

I was looking into a "price-match" with a couple of other computer stores, and I noticed that CompUSA is advertising Boot Camp right smack in the middle of BOTH their desktop AND notebook online store webpages!!!

Desktops: http://www.compusa.com/products/products.asp?N=200005&Ne=200000

NoteBooks: http://www.compusa.com/products/products.asp?N=200334&Ne=200000

TALK ABOUT PUBLICITY!!!

Where? I don't see it...just a list of computers

 

[Fukui]

Where? I don't see it...just a list of computers

It was there, I saw it. Probably Dell complained or something... who knows.