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zakarhino

Contributor
Original poster
Sep 13, 2014
2,437
6,569
Someone else mentioned experiencing this in another thread but I really want to see how many other people are getting this issue. This is not a bait thread, nor is it a hate thread. I am wholeheartedly trying to figure out if it's just me and the one other guy on the forum or if more people are getting this problem.

I haven't worn AVP in 24 hours and I'm getting an issue where some elements on 2D displays (my monitor, iPhone, TV) look 3D and it's making me dizzy. I have to blink a few times or shake my head to get rid of it and then it comes back a few seconds later. I first noticed this problem whilst wearing Vision Pro; certain elements that weren't supposed to be 3D (text on Safari sites, parts of image thumbnail content in Photos, etc.) looked like they were 'popping out' of the window. It was really prominent with red elements. At first I thought this was a software glitch but now I'm getting the same effect on real monitors with no AVP on. I'm hoping this goes away in a couple days once my eyes readjust but this is scary and affecting my productivity because it happens most frequently with text (good luck coding guys). In fact I'm getting it right now as I'm writing this thread. It only looks like it's floating a couple millimeters above the actual display.

Oh it's also happening to a lesser extent with text on physical items.

I've decided even if you gave me a Vision Pro for free or PAID ME to use it I'm not going to wear one again. The 3D eye problem I now have is not worth the AVP experience. No tech, no matter how 'magical,' is worth destroying my eyesight over. I was so excited for not just AVP but Apple's whole Vision platform in general.

I can't believe this would end up being my final conclusion. It's a cool platform and I can't wait for the 'glasses' version to come out in a few decades (lol) but I'm not going to risk any more eye issues. What a sad end for my AVP experience :(

EDIT: oh God I just opened Discord and it looks like the window is floating over my browser... I'm using Windows right now on a REAL MONITOR o_O

EDIT 2: 48 hours later things are starting to come back to normal. I think I'll take a break from screen work today. My conclusion still stands: I won't be wearing Vision Pro again.

EDIT 3: 5-6 days later post Vision Pro I'm still getting the effect although it's not as disorientating.
 
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fs454

macrumors 68000
Dec 7, 2007
1,950
1,744
Los Angeles / Boston
Someone else mentioned experiencing this in another thread but I really want to see how many other people are getting this issue.

I haven't worn AVP in 24 hours and I'm getting an issue where some elements on 2D displays (my monitor, iPhone, TV) look 3D and it's making me dizzy. I have to blink a few times or shake my head to get rid of it and then it comes back a few seconds later. I first noticed this problem whilst wearing Vision Pro; certain elements that weren't supposed to be 3D (text on Safari sites, parts of image thumbnail content in Photos, etc.) looked like they were 'popping out' of the window. It was really prominent with red elements. At first I thought this was a software glitch but now I'm getting the same effect on real monitors with no AVP on. I'm hoping this goes away in a couple days once my eyes readjust but this is scary and affecting my productivity because it happens most frequently with text (good luck coding guys). In fact I'm getting it right now as I'm writing this thread.

Oh it's also happening to a lesser extent with text on physical items.

I've decided if even you gave me a Vision Pro for free or PAID ME to use it I'm not going to wear one again. The 3D eye problem I now have is not worth the AVP experience. No tech, no matter how 'magical,' is worth destroying my eyesight over. I was so excited for not just AVP but Apple's whole Vision platform in general. This is not a bait thread, nor is it a hate thread. I am wholeheartedly trying to figure out if it's just me and the one other guy on the forum or if more people are getting this problem.

I can't believe this would end up being my final conclusion. It's a cool platform and I can't wait for the 'glasses' version to come out in a few decades (lol) but I'm not going to risk any more eye issues. What a sad end for my AVP experience :(

I'm feeling similar in terms of how it's making my eyes feel. I am not sure if I would say the effect is "3D" in my case but maybe sort of? It makes text on other displays sort of "shine" in a distracting manner, giving me the same feeling get in the headset after an hour or so where you feel like you can't reliably get the image to stay 100% crisp. Whatever it is, it feels like my vision is being made worse. I've been through two sets of rx inserts with a new prescription now, and have no issues in any other VR headset. My quest 3 is a breeze to use with the same rx insert strength (-1.25) and doesn't result in my eyes feeling nearly as bad after extended use.

I'm baffled and disappointed that it's looking like I have to sit this product out.
 

zakarhino

Contributor
Original poster
Sep 13, 2014
2,437
6,569
I'm feeling similar in terms of how it's making my eyes feel. I am not sure if I would say the effect is "3D" in my case but maybe sort of? It makes text on other displays sort of "shine" in a distracting manner, giving me the same feeling get in the headset after an hour or so where you feel like you can't reliably get the image to stay 100% crisp. Whatever it is, it feels like my vision is being made worse. I've been through two sets of rx inserts with a new prescription now, and have no issues in any other VR headset. My quest 3 is a breeze to use with the same rx insert strength (-1.25) and doesn't result in my eyes feeling nearly as bad after extended use.

I'm baffled and disappointed that it's looking like I have to sit this product out.

Yeah I just saw your post in the other thread. No matter the differences between our experiences the underlying conclusion is the same: If the AVP is affecting our normal vision in any way, it's absolutely not worth it.

"Baffled and disappointed" is apt because I feel the exact same way. I was so excited for AVP, I have been waiting YEARS for Apple to finally release their first AR device. I'm even more disappointed in the idea that this might be caused by the physics of the device itself rather than something that can be fixed with better pancake lenses or improved resolution of the displays.
 

fs454

macrumors 68000
Dec 7, 2007
1,950
1,744
Los Angeles / Boston
Yeah I just saw your post in the other thread. No matter the differences between our experiences the underlying conclusion is the same: If the AVP is affecting our normal vision in any way, it's absolutely not worth it.

"Baffled and disappointed" is apt because I feel the exact same way. I was so excited for AVP, I have been waiting YEARS for Apple to finally release their first AR device. I'm even more disappointed in the idea that this might be caused by the physics of the device itself rather than something that can be fixed with better pancake lenses or improved resolution of the displays.

Yeah, this is a dream-come-true product for me too. I was 18 in 2007 when the first iPhone launched - I had one day one and have been chasing that bleeding edge feeling ever since. This is the only other time since then that it's felt that way, where you just know the second you use it that it's going to define the next era of computing. visionOS and the navigation are incredible but the reality of the hardware is just... tough.

I think if they end up doing varifocal optics in a future iteration it would greatly improve things, but there are technological hurdles to getting there we may never properly be able to conquer. Right now in these headsets, our eyes have to sort of emulate focusing on near and far things, even though the screens' focal points never actually change from the ~10ish effective feet you're focused at through the lens. The disconnect between your eye seemingly shifting focus as you bring a window closer to you, or stare off into Joshua Tree and then look at your hand, and the reality of the focal distance not *actually* changing, is why our eyes get weird. What baffles me is why the Quest 3 lenses don't cause the user to suffer as badly as AVP seemingly does. They're also twice the size and just feel easier to get comfortable in.

I genuinely hope they do get a high return rate citing eye strain / eye-related concerns and it pushes them to prioritize R&D in that direction over anything else. I'll take a headset that's this same weight 3 gens in a row if they can make it easier on your eyes.
 

Itinj24

Contributor
Nov 8, 2017
4,433
2,543
New York
You got my attention…

I do not have this issue you are experiencing but I’ve always been cautious of what kind of health risks may arise from a headset such as this. I do notice my eyes get a little more watery after using it for bit, causing me to rub them, but nothing more than that. Apple Insider had a good article a few days ago describing possible health issues resulting from AVP use. Link at the bottom.

I’m not a doctor either but I would recommend at least going to one. I haven’t heard anything like this, anywhere on the Web other than yours and the other user in this thread. Maybe I missed them or maybe it’s not widespread but this may very well be a blessing in disguise. What I’m saying is, maybe it’s possible that the AVP uncovered an underlying health issue for you that can be stopped in its tracks. If the issue you’re experiencing is bilateral, it might be more to do with the brain than the eyes.

Anyways, hope this gets resolved for you soon and it’s nothing to worry about. Link:

 

Jensend

macrumors 65816
Dec 19, 2008
1,251
1,438
It was really prominent with red elements.
Before I even got to this part of your post, I was thinking of red and blue elements.
Red and blue are on opposite sides of the visual spectrum (well, violet is past blue, but there is no violet emitter on displays) and they bend differently as they pass through lenses—which is how rainbows work. The lenses and software in the headset and the lenses in your eyes and your brain are all affecting how colors are aligned.

I think what's happening is that your brain is always recalibrating itself to figure out how depth works for different colors... it's correcting for chromatic aberration. So your brain may be getting used to how colors work on the headset, and temporarily* recalibrating how those colors align outside the headset.

When I look at this image on a standard monitor, it looks like the blue is closer to me. I've looked at the same image other times and it looks like red is closer.
Cromostereopsi_PiratiGrafici.gif

So, basically, I think you are freaking out over a perfectly normal phenomenon. It's just more pronounced in VR because its passing through multiple sets of lenses instead of just one (the lenses in your eyes).


*Temporarily could mean days. One of my favorite optical illusions can actually affect how your vision works for several days afterward. It's called the McCollough effect. Basically you alternate looking at vertical stripes in one color, and horizontal stripes in another color for a few minutes, and then when you look at black and white horizontal or vertical stripes, you see a slight color tint, even if you look at those stripes minutes, hours, or sometimes even days later.
DEEEk7-XUAExHbm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollough_effect

I'm a bit of a geek about VR, displays, eyes, and optics. So this post kind of combines many of my favorite topics.
 

Unami

macrumors 65816
Jul 27, 2010
1,315
1,501
Austria
It will end up like blue light - took Apple over a decade to implement some sort of scant eye protection against it. Health isn't their priority, unless they're re-selling the sensors for it ;)
And even then, it's more of a placebo. It just reduces brightness a little but does not filter out blue light (as it has no filter).
 
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olimerkido2

macrumors newbie
Feb 23, 2023
18
23
Someone else mentioned experiencing this in another thread but I really want to see how many other people are getting this issue. This is not a bait thread, nor is it a hate thread. I am wholeheartedly trying to figure out if it's just me and the one other guy on the forum or if more people are getting this problem.

I haven't worn AVP in 24 hours and I'm getting an issue where some elements on 2D displays (my monitor, iPhone, TV) look 3D and it's making me dizzy. I have to blink a few times or shake my head to get rid of it and then it comes back a few seconds later. I first noticed this problem whilst wearing Vision Pro; certain elements that weren't supposed to be 3D (text on Safari sites, parts of image thumbnail content in Photos, etc.) looked like they were 'popping out' of the window. It was really prominent with red elements. At first I thought this was a software glitch but now I'm getting the same effect on real monitors with no AVP on. I'm hoping this goes away in a couple days once my eyes readjust but this is scary and affecting my productivity because it happens most frequently with text (good luck coding guys). In fact I'm getting it right now as I'm writing this thread. It only looks like it's floating a couple millimeters above the actual display.

Oh it's also happening to a lesser extent with text on physical items.

I've decided if even you gave me a Vision Pro for free or PAID ME to use it I'm not going to wear one again. The 3D eye problem I now have is not worth the AVP experience. No tech, no matter how 'magical,' is worth destroying my eyesight over. I was so excited for not just AVP but Apple's whole Vision platform in general.

I can't believe this would end up being my final conclusion. It's a cool platform and I can't wait for the 'glasses' version to come out in a few decades (lol) but I'm not going to risk any more eye issues. What a sad end for my AVP experience :(

EDIT: oh God I just opened Discord and it looks like the window is floating over my browser... I'm using Windows right now on a REAL MONITOR o_O
Don’t worry Vision Pro does not ruin your eyes any more than an ordinary display, it’s just your brain’s interpretation of the signals coming from your eyes which is getting confused because you haven’t spent enough time with Apple Vision Pro for your brain to get used to it and adapt.
 

TracerAnalog

macrumors 6502a
Nov 7, 2012
522
911
Someone else mentioned experiencing this in another thread but I really want to see how many other people are getting this issue. This is not a bait thread, nor is it a hate thread. I am wholeheartedly trying to figure out if it's just me and the one other guy on the forum or if more people are getting this problem.

I haven't worn AVP in 24 hours and I'm getting an issue where some elements on 2D displays (my monitor, iPhone, TV) look 3D and it's making me dizzy. I have to blink a few times or shake my head to get rid of it and then it comes back a few seconds later. I first noticed this problem whilst wearing Vision Pro; certain elements that weren't supposed to be 3D (text on Safari sites, parts of image thumbnail content in Photos, etc.) looked like they were 'popping out' of the window. It was really prominent with red elements. At first I thought this was a software glitch but now I'm getting the same effect on real monitors with no AVP on. I'm hoping this goes away in a couple days once my eyes readjust but this is scary and affecting my productivity because it happens most frequently with text (good luck coding guys). In fact I'm getting it right now as I'm writing this thread. It only looks like it's floating a couple millimeters above the actual display.

Oh it's also happening to a lesser extent with text on physical items.

I've decided if even you gave me a Vision Pro for free or PAID ME to use it I'm not going to wear one again. The 3D eye problem I now have is not worth the AVP experience. No tech, no matter how 'magical,' is worth destroying my eyesight over. I was so excited for not just AVP but Apple's whole Vision platform in general.

I can't believe this would end up being my final conclusion. It's a cool platform and I can't wait for the 'glasses' version to come out in a few decades (lol) but I'm not going to risk any more eye issues. What a sad end for my AVP experience :(

EDIT: oh God I just opened Discord and it looks like the window is floating over my browser... I'm using Windows right now on a REAL MONITOR o_O like a vision problem
Sounds like an ocular issue. I had similar issues in VR that were fixed by getting the right inserts. Not saying you have the same issue, but maybe worth checking out.
 

Eracles

macrumors newbie
Apr 5, 2023
5
24
Unrelated to Visio Pro specifically but possibly related to vision issue: apart from the advice to go to for check to the doctor, I suggest what I normally do when my eyes are tired after long sessions of study/work with displays: go for a walk in nature and aim for watching the landscape, especially at the horizon. The point is not to stress more your eyes, but to relax focusing on more natural distances.
 

ninethirty

macrumors 68000
Mar 1, 2006
1,528
1,511
I've noticed this a bit, so it's interesting to see that others are noticing it also. It's not really bothering me at all, so 🤷‍♂️
 

antiprotest

macrumors 68040
Apr 19, 2010
3,880
13,148
Have previous headsets like Oculus and Quest produced the same complaints? If not, what's the difference in the Vision Pro that would cause this?
 
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klasma

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2017
4,755
12,717
The 3D illusion created by VR headsets is not perfect, see the vergence-accomodation conflict for example, and the chromatic aberration already mentioned. This means your eyes/brain may get conflicting information about depth and color. When spending time in a VR headset, the brain may adjust its interpretation of visual input according to its VR experience. This adjustment may in turn have adverse effects for viewing the real world.

There seems to be a relatively large variance in how people’s visual perception works in detail, so some will have no noticeable issues while others may experience more striking effects. I don’t think this necessarily leads to permanent impairments. Serious issues are more likely to be caused by eye muscles constantly tensing up.

Nevertheless, this probably means that the technology isn’t quite there yet to be usable by everyone, even ignoring any discomfort from the weight and the physical confinement.
 
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Borjan

macrumors 6502
Sep 28, 2004
262
58
Floating real world display elements definitely happened for me when I used to use my Vive a fair amount. I didn’t put it down to any sort of damage to my vision, but more that my brain was ‘used to’ 3D elements and replicating that even when out of the headset.

Went away after a short while (measured in days of more Vive use and going back into the real world.) kind of like getting used to rollercoasters.
 
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MacProFCP

Contributor
Jun 14, 2007
1,085
2,357
Michigan
Do mean that a piece of technology that further removes you from the “real world” could have negative biological consequences?

Wow, I would have never guessed!

Kidding aside, I hate everything this product stands for. Society is already too removed from healthy social interactions; why the world needs another device that pulls us further away is beyond me.
 

Eracles

macrumors newbie
Apr 5, 2023
5
24
Do mean that a piece of technology that further removes you from the “real world” could have negative biological consequences?

Wow, I would have never guessed!

Kidding aside, I hate everything this product stands for. Society is already too removed from healthy social interactions; why the world needs another device that pulls us further away is beyond me.
I agree with you. To me it can be, I imagine, a good tool for specialized fields like medicine or engineering. But for common users, moderation is key. And having such wisdom in using a device is difficult for anyone.
Companies need to make new stuff and things to expand their market.
 

ryan102

macrumors regular
Sep 27, 2009
176
157
You absolutely should not be taking risks with your regular vision for the sake of trying to force yourself to adapt to a new Apple product.

I also wouldn't be taking advise from strangers on an Internet forum that say keeping screens half an inch from your eyes for hours at a time is fine. Your eyes/vision are more important than the risks of using a VR headset.
 

AlixSPQR

macrumors 6502a
Nov 16, 2020
937
4,614
Sweden
People can have some kind of visual imperfection that may cause this. It’s best to see an optician if you’re experiencing issues.
 
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