I'm 16, so my documents don't need to be so advanced, but for what I do, the default is great. I have created a nice CV (and one for a friend) using Pages to a higher level, but thats it...Pages is a fantastic note-taker...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I-Works
- Thread starter nadinbrzezinski
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I'm a little confused by this statement.
In what way does Word handle fonts differently than Pages? I use both, and as far as I can tell, both are easily changed and both include wide variety of fonts.
Nobody questions that they are "used." The objections you are hearing are to your characterization of Pages as being not good "for anything beyond home use" on account of it not having one feature you use. The other side of that case is being made -- but you don't seem to be receiving it.
Pages does have search and replace. It lacks only a boolean feature, which I think is obscure and rarely used anyway.
The styles creation process is hopelessly muddled in Word, or at least it must be. I haven't run into one in fifty people who seem to understand and know how to use it properly. Badly implemented features tend to be avoided by users. It's just easier to stick to the defaults, which is what the vast majority of Word users do.
I am willing to bet that MOST users of ANY word processor stick to the defaults
But hey, whatever...
In fact, I would guess that most users of most core programs in a comptuer stick to the default and don't take those programs to the limit
Well I do for large reports and presentations of course. But short essays that are text-only I don't bother changing it, especially if my procrastination has left me with 30 minutes to complete the assignment.
Maybe, but that doesn't change the fact that the style system is way better in Pages. And I can use my roommate for example - previously his Word documents were the usual Times New Roman all text... even his larger reports. But now he uses Pages and just about everything he makes looks much better.
No it doesn't. I will go out on a limb but will even say that MOST word processors out there allow the user to select fonts, change then to their taste and the rest of it.
A few, which I will assume most people have not even heard off, such as LaTX, are not that easy to work with.
That's not what "styles" means. This comment just furthers our point.
Go watch this: http://www.apple.com/iwork/tutorials/#pages-create-1
I'm a little confused here. If you don't like the software, then don't use it. I downloaded the trial and gave it a go, and decided to stick with Word. You don't see me blasting iWork for not having the features I want, you just see me using an alternative product that does.
What I wrote was that it was missing a very large feature... that will prevent the program from moving to the enterprise environment.
In fact I will be far from shocked to see that one implemented in a future release
That is far from blasting a program...
It is just pointing out that it is LACKING a feature that is used in writing manuals
And that a second feature that is used regularly is also missing
It is a good piece of software FOR WHAT IT DOES... but giving a review pointing TWO glaring problems is far from not liking the software
Hell, it opens and works with Word documents (that are complex) far better than Open Office...
I guess you missed that part of the review.
Now once again, if you need this for general wrting... it is a fine app
If you need it to do some layout, it is a fine piece of software
But aparently pointing a glaring problem, aka missing features, is a problem.
Do they have a roll eyes smiley over here? That's they I feel right now, rolling eyes.
Oh and times new roman, when doing extensive editing is easier on the eyes, as well as Courier, than many other fonts. Now for final work I like Arial... narrow to be specific
You didn't come in and say "Pages is missing a few good features that are useful in writing manuals, like the ones I write." You essentially said: "Pages is not useful for anything beyond writing a shopping list and has no place in business".
Let's face it. There are plenty of things that Word does extremely poorly that I find essential to produce many documents that are important to me. For example, I've never found a version of Word that handles floats well at all. (Though I have not played with '07).
B
I think now we're getting into a different debate. Pages' styles management and templates are far superior to Word, but that's not what Word was designed to create. ...That's what Publisher is for.
For the majority of simple documents, styles aren't really needed, and if any formatting changes are needed, chances are it'll just be a font and spacing change.
And like you said: "It's easier to stick with the defaults," and when all you're doing is writing an essay, there really isn't a need to change anything ...unless your default font is Helvetica.
Styles are very important when working on collaborative documents. I can't count the times I've had to manually go in and tweak documents because every single author had made font changes that aren't tied to the styles, so heading don't get updated etc... ECHHH.
B
What about enterprise environments that don't use indexing a.k.a. every single business environment I've ever had experience with. Is Pages also useless to them?
YES! That is exactly right. Pages is useless for writing manuals. But that is not how you worded it.
Your review was pretty lousy in the sense that it didn't actually review Pages for doing what Pages was intended for. You only seem to be concerned with opening Word files and making indexes. You didn't say "here are what I think of all the great things Pages can do, but here are two things it can't" you simply focused on the lack of indexing and your perceived inferiority of Find and Replace, then threw us the bone of "well it opens Word files ok." Have you even tried working on a Pages file and using Pages features that Word does not have? Of course you didn't, you don't even know what styles are. Not only that, you completely ignore Keynote and Numbers, but you keep saying iWork isn't worth it (the whole $79) for any sort of professional work. How can you possibly make such a conclusion?
We get the impression you think Apple's priority was to make an application that can open Word files, rather than making a great page-layout app that just-so-happens to be able to open Word files. The fact of the matter is, opening Word documents is not the principal role of Pages. It's just an extra bonus feature.
For me, if that feature didn't exist it wouldn't change my workflow at all.
No, I think we saw it, we just weren't that excited by it. Word = yawn.
Here again you're attempting to marginalize Pages, as if it's made only for children.
It's not a "glaring problem" to anybody but you.
Exactly what I was trying to say. Basically, we all appreciate and accept that Pages is not right for you, nadinbrzezinski, but I will not stand for people poo-pooing iWork as an excellent productivity suite for both home and office simply because it lacks some obscure feature that is meaningless to 99% of people.
And I'd still like somebody to tell me what a "frame" is.
When I read your first post, it seemed like you went from not finding features you deem critical, to relegating iWork only suitable for home use. It seemed way too early to draw that conclusion, and without having built a compelling case.
In my long experience, the vast number of people who use Word are NOT writing manuscripts, training manuals, novels, etc. My current company has <5 individuals who require those features. Everyone else uses the WP for business letters, brochures, proposals, RFIs, RFQs and other similar requirements. Pages does that very well. You can make a similar comparison about Numbers. Keynote is considered by many to be superior to the MS offering.
I purchase SW-HW for my current Company, as I did for my former. There is no question that iWork has a place on the corporate desktop probably a large presence as well..
In my long experience, the vast number of people who use Word are NOT writing manuscripts, training manuals, novels, etc. My current company has <5 individuals who require those features. Everyone else uses the WP for business letters, brochures, proposals, RFIs, RFQs and other similar requirements. Pages does that very well. You can make a similar comparison about Numbers. Keynote is considered by many to be superior to the MS offering.
I purchase SW-HW for my current Company, as I did for my former. There is no question that iWork has a place on the corporate desktop probably a large presence as well..
Well that's the nicest thing about Pages, one which I am now convinced most users haven't even discovered. Define just one blank template with all the styles you like. Now you never have to worry about short vs. long documents -- every document can look the way you want it to look.
I think now we're getting into a different debate. Pages' styles management and templates are far superior to Word, but that's not what Word was designed to create. ...That's what Publisher is for.
For the majority of simple documents, styles aren't really needed, and if any formatting changes are needed, chances are it'll just be a font and spacing change.
And like you said: "It's easier to stick with the defaults," and when all you're doing is writing an essay, there really isn't a need to change anything ...unless your default font is Helvetica.
I completely disagree! Both Pages and Word both do styles, but only Pages does them well. If you think styles are only for publishing, then you are missing one of the most significant advantages that Pages has over Word. I am completely serious about this. As I said above, at a minimum, you should create one blank template that includes all of the paragraph and text styles you normally use. Then you will never have to worry about this again, you will never create generic-looking documents of any size, and you will also never say again that styles are only for publishing. They are for making every document you produce look good and consistent -- and for this to happen with virtually no effort!
Exactly. Virtually every Word document I open is packed with styles, sometimes dozens of them, most of them unused. Meanwhile, virtually none of the text is properly assigned to a style. This is much easier to see in a Word document opened in Pages, with the style drawer opened, than it is in Word. These documents never lay properly on a page because inevitably the line spacing is not the same from paragraph to paragraph, the widow and orphan control is fouled up, the tabs and margins are set inconsistently, etc.
I guess I'm just missing the point of styles altogether. For simple word processing, what's the point of a template/style? It's a lot easier to just open a blank document and start typing than to delete a bunch of lorem ipsum and then start typing. Right?
I understand the use of styles and templates for specialized and/or complex documents, but what's the point of a style/template for a simple essay (or anything similar)?
I guess I'm just missing the point of styles altogether. For simple word processing, what's the point of a template/style? It's a lot easier to just open a blank document and start typing than to delete a bunch of lorem ipsum and then start typing. Right?
I understand the use of styles and templates for specialized and/or complex documents, but what's the point of a style/template for a simple essay (or anything similar)?
Yes, you are missing the point of styles. Yet another Word victim crying out for rehabilitation.
You can still have a blank template, but the blank template can include all the fonts, text and paragraph styles you use. Long or short, don't you use section headings in your documents? Subheadings? Tabs? Margins? Don't you like to use certain line spacings? Don't you have a font you prefer over say, Times or Helvetica? Don't you use headers and footers, with page numbers? With styles and templates, you only need to set this up only once to have it at your fingertips every time you create a new document, short or long.
Really, if you're missing this, you're missing one of Pages' biggest advantages over Word.
I guess I'm just missing the point of styles altogether. For simple word processing, what's the point of a template/style? It's a lot easier to just open a blank document and start typing than to delete a bunch of lorem ipsum and then start typing. Right?
I understand the use of styles and templates for specialized and/or complex documents, but what's the point of a style/template for a simple essay (or anything similar)?
I use them for fiction writing
There are things in common with every market, but markets have their submission standards (style sheet). So I create a template that is specific for each type of work. That saves a ton of time
Some are genetic enough where you can just use them from market to market, but things like a book title page, they change
And I do that with my main three word processors
I will be doing this with this program as soon as I am done with this project...
(Why three you may ask)
Textmaker for the hand held device (windows mobile sucks... in ways that are just ridicolous... and no their excuse doesn't make any sense given hiow capable textmaker is)
Word (They made it oh so much easier in Word '07 and some of the problems are gone.
Open Office, until we got word '07 that was my primary word processor... yes Word XP had "issues" as well
And once I am done with this one, just import templates in word format, and walla, templates done
Or design them from the bottom up, depending on how creative I'm feeling
OK, here's an example of a template I made in about 3 minutes, based on the MLA style.Yes, you are missing the point of styles. Yet another Word victim crying out for rehabilitation.
You can still have a blank template, but the blank template can include all the fonts, text and paragraph styles you use. Long or short, don't you use section headings in your documents? Subheadings? Tabs? Margins? Don't you like to use certain line spacings? Don't you have a font you prefer over say, Times or Helvetica? Don't you use headers and footers, with page numbers? With styles and templates, you only need to set this up only once to have it at your fingertips every time you create a new document, short or long.
Really, if you're missing this, you're missing one of Pages' biggest advantages over Word.
This may be a poor example, considering there are no variations in font or size or formating, but then again, 98% of what I write doesn't.
I guess this would be handy if I forgot the correct format, but other than that, I don't really see the point.
Clearly, I'm still missing something.
EDIT: And it looks like my tab stops weren't saved.
It's really not a big deal (IMHO) for single author documents.I guess this would be handy if I forgot the correct format, but other than that, I don't really see the point.
Where it comes into play (for me) is when you are making one larger document from a number of sources. Say for example you are writing a book in which each chapter is contributed by a number of different authors, and even worse when you want to incorporate individual sections from previous documents into a new one which someone else has formatted.
B
OK, here's an example of a template I made in about 3 minutes, based on the MLA style.
This may be a poor example, considering there are no variations in font or size or formating, but then again, 98% of what I write doesn't.
I guess this would be handy if I forgot the correct format, but other than that, I don't really see the point.
Clearly, I'm still missing something.
EDIT: And it looks like my tab stops weren't saved.
Well for one thing, you haven't actually saved and applied the styles.
For example, the "title" is still "body." What you need to do is place the insertion point into the "title" line, click hold on the red triangle to the right of "body" in the style drawer, and select "create new paragraph style from selection." Now you get to name the new style and it appears in the drawer. You'll also see that the triangle next to the new style is black instead of red. This means the currently selected paragraph is set with this style.
Now, with "body" you need to click in one of the body paragraphs, click and hold on the red triangle next to "body" in the style drawer, and then choose "redefine style from selection." Now your body style reflects all the settings you made in that paragraph. If you later decide to change one of the paragraph settings (such as line spacing), you can can make that change in just one paragraph, "redefine style from selection," and the change automatically applies to all the paragraphs created with that style. Easy!
You also don't need any "Lorem ipsum" text in your final template, btw. Once the styles are properly defined you can just delete it.
For the record I don't use any of that lorem ipsum in my templates...
Not necessary
And ironically more and more of HOW you do it is becoming standarized across software packages
I don't know who started the method, but thaks... that was a great aha moment