i5 or i7?

[pl1984]

I just gave the heads up on the i7 option might be a better value. Not sure why you think I'm somehow forcing people to get i7 BTO over their own decisions. It is merely giving them awareness of the option, since a lot of people make the decision without even realizing i7 was an option.

OK, nothing wrong with that.

My statements don't need justification because what I say is factually true. I can't say the same for you. That is self evident for sure.

I didn't ask you to justify your statement. I am clearly of the opinion each person should buy what is appropriate for their circumstances without the expectation they justify it to anyone. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of you. You have repeatedly expected my to justify why someone would choose the stock i5 configuration over a stock i3 configuration upgraded to the i7 processor.

 

[Cheapassmac]

OK, nothing wrong with that.

I didn't ask you to justify your statement. I am clearly of the opinion each person should buy what is appropriate for their circumstances without the expectation they justify it to anyone. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of you. You have repeatedly expected my to justify why someone would choose the stock i5 configuration over a stock i3 configuration upgraded to the i7 processor.

No, you repeatedly challenged my presentation of the i7 option possibly being a better choice without reason. Apparently with you agreeing in the first place.

All I asked was to back up any statements you make, which you won't. If you don't have an opinion, you don't have to say anything at all.

 

[pl1984]

No, you repeatedly challenged my presentation of the i7 option possibly being a better choice without reason. Apparently with you agreeing in the first place.

No, I said:

"BTO i7 Mini would still be saddled with an anemic 128GB SSD. One might argue the higher capacity SSD in the base i5 model is preferable than the i7 processor."

All I asked was to back up any statements you make, which you won't. If you don't have an opinion, you don't have to say anything at all.

I really don't know why you need me to backup a statement that is self evident and you have acknowledged exists. What part of:

"There are some people who would value the extra 128GB capacity over having an i7 processor."

Requires explanation to you? I'm not trying to be snarky, I seriously do not know what about that statement needs "backed". Perhaps if you could point to the difficult you're having with it I could attempt to help you understand it.

 

[Cheapassmac]

No, I said:

"BTO i7 Mini would still be saddled with an anemic 128GB SSD. One might argue the higher capacity SSD in the base i5 model is preferable than the i7 processor."


I really don't know why you need me to backup a statement that is self evident and you have acknowledged exists. What part of:

"There are some people who would value the extra 128GB capacity over having an i7 processor."

Requires explanation to you? I'm not trying to be snarky, I seriously do not know what about that statement needs "backed". Perhaps if you could point to the difficult you're having with it I could attempt to help you understand it.

Why is 128GB anemic? That's just your characterization of the config. I can easily fit all my documents, 30gb of music, and the OS with room to spare (almost half the disk space even). If 128GB is "anemic" so is 256gb. People with videos, games, and other large file would have an external anyway.

Who is "one might argue" if it's not you. Not trying to be snarky, but ultimately you aren't giving any reason why someone should pass up a free i7 CPU upgrade (or a very optional $30 cost if you can't make due with 128gb). I'm sorry you have difficulty understanding that, and that we agree on helping the general public.

 

[pl1984]

Why is 128GB anemic? That's just your characterization of the config. I can easily fit all my documents, 30gb of music, and the OS with room to spare (almost half the disk space even). If 128GB is "anemic" so is 256gb. People with videos, games, and other large file would have an external anyway.

I feel 128GB of disk space is anemic. You disagree? Fine.

Who is "one might argue" if it's not you. Not trying to be snarky, but ultimately you aren't giving any reason why someone should pass up a free i7 CPU upgrade (or a very optional $30 cost if you can't make due with 128gb). I'm sorry you have difficulty understanding that, but that's as plain as I can make it.

But it's not free, it comes at a cost of an additional 128GB capacity on the SSD. Capacity which may be preferred over having an i7 CPU.

 

[Cheapassmac]

I feel 128GB of disk space is anemic. You disagree? Fine.


But it's not free, it comes at a cost of an additional 128GB capacity on the SSD. Capacity which may be preferred over having an i7 CPU.

It is free if you don't need the 128gb. Anyone and everyone can benefit from a $30 i7 otherwise.

And yes, I disagree that 128 is anemic. Thanks for acknowledging that it was your option and not fact.

 

[pl1984]

It is free if you don't need the 128gb. Anyone and everyone can benefit from a $30 i7 otherwise.

Which is why I qualified my statement with:

"There are some people who would value the extra 128GB..."

Which means it's not free to them.

And yes, I disagree that 128 is anemic. Thanks for acknowledging that it was your option and not fact.

The word you're seeking is "opinion", not "option" and I don't believe I stated it as anything but opinion.

 

[Cheapassmac]

It is free if you don't need the 128gb. Everyone can benefit from a $30 i7 otherwise.

Which is why I qualified my statement with:

"There are some people who would value the extra 128GB..."

Which means it's not free to them.


The word you're seeking is "opinion", not "option" and I don't believe I stated it as anything but opinion.

You can have the grammar correction win if that makes you feel better. You knew what I meant regardless.

So it is free for some/most, and for anyone that didn't meet that criteria, it still worth the $30 upgrade. This covers everyone. Not only the $30 is optional, it could be added at a later date.

 

[pl1984]

So it is free for some/most, and for anyone that didn't meet that criteria, it still worth the $30 upgrade. This covers everyone. Not only the $30 is optional, it could be added at a later date.

Do you have any supporting data it's free for most? I agree it's free for those who desire the i7 processor and not the extra 128GB SSD. That much was never in question.

 

[Cheapassmac]

Do you have any supporting data it's free for most? I agree it's free for those who desire the i7 processor and not the extra 128GB SSD. That much was never in question.

Seems hypocritical for you to ask for facts when you won't give any yourself. When I ask for facts for you to defend your own augment, you refused. Despite this request being bias in your favor:

That said, I already previously stated that the 128gb had room for the operation system, 30gb of music (and honestly it could have been anything else really), and still had half the storage space to spare. With most non-media files consuming very little space, most people using the computer for work, internet, and other casual tasks won't have storage issues.

Of course, the whole storage thing is a red herring in the first place. If you can't afford $30 dollars, that's on you. It doesn't change the fact that a $30 i7 upgrade can benefit every user.

 

[pl1984]

Seems hypocritical for you to ask for facts when you won't give any yourself. When I ask for facts for you to defend your own augment, you refused. Despite this request being bias in your favor:

I didn't make a statement to the effect "most people prefer the extra 128GB capacity over the i7 processor" but rather a statement to the effect "there are those who may prefer the extra 128GB capacity to the i7 processor". You, OTOH, stated it was free for most, a significantly higher threshold to support. The only reason I would need to provide facts to support my statement would be if you believed there are absolutely zero people who would prefer the extra 128GB capacity over the i7. Do you?

That said, I already previously stated that the 128gb had room for the operation system, 30gb of music (and honestly it could have been anything else really), and still had half the storage space to spare. With most non-media files consuming very little space, most people using the computer for work, internet, and other casual tasks won't have storage issues.

Completely irrelevant. If 128GB was all everyone would ever need then there wouldn't be a need for higher capacity, internal offerings.

Of course, the whole storage thing is a red herring in the first place. If you can't afford $30 dollars, that's on you. It doesn't change the fact that a $30 i7 upgrade can benefit every user.

That's your opinion, nothing more.

 

[Cheapassmac]

Completely irrelevant. If 128GB was all everyone would ever need then there wouldn't be a need for higher capacity, internal offerings.


That's your opinion, nothing more.

I never said 128gb was all everyone ever could need. In fact, I clearly stated that additional storage can be added later while an i7 can't. It's a red herring because you always dance around that key point and never address it. You simply state the extra 128gb cost more, which isn't the issue.

It's your opinion that some people can benefit from the extra 128gb over the i7 without ever addressing the fact that it can be added for virtually free and not an issue in the first place.

You can't upgrade to an i7 after the fact, with it being free for some people, and literally almost nothing to everyone else. You can say it's an opinion, but so is everything you ever uttered. You're just wasting everyone's time.

 

[ixxx69]

It's your opinion that some people can benefit from the extra 128gb over the i7 without ever addressing the fact that it can be added for virtually free and not an issue in the first place.

There you go again with the "free" BS.

This is at least the second thread where you just won't let this go. Then you act all put out when people suggest that you appear to be pressuring people into the i7.

I think we've reached the point where it seems disingenuous and you really just want people to think the same way you do about the mini and their money. And the vast majority of people don't.

 

[Cheapassmac]

There you go again with the "free" BS.

This is at least the second thread where you just won't let this go. Then you act all put out when people suggest that you appear to be pressuring people into the i7.

I think we've reached the point where it seems disingenuous and you really just want people to think the same way you do about the mini and their money. And the vast majority of people don't.

Says the guy who advocated for the i5 stock model being the best value if I recall correctly. People are free to buy whatever model they like. I simply called out that the i7 BTO is the exact same price and should be at least considered instead of just being dismissed simply because of 128gb storage which can be remedied.

 

[Ploki]

And the vast majority of people don't.

Not sure about that tho. Lot of people if they go for i5, they go for i7.
Unlike the macbook pro', CPU upgrades are actually worth it on the Mini.

 

[robo456]

I skipped a bunch of pages in the middle because I really don't want to be involved with the more 'colorful' debate so I might have missed it... but I was thinking on going with the i7 because I do a lot with Parallels for Windows10 VM, and soon to be Kali linux and some other random OS's... I'm assuming that will take advantage of the hyperthreading?

--rob

 

[pl1984]

I never said 128gb was all everyone ever could need. In fact, I clearly stated that additional storage can be added later while an i7 can't. It's a red herring because you always dance around that key point and never address it. You simply state the extra 128gb cost more, which isn't the issue.

I state there are some who may prefer the additional 128GB capacity over the i7 processor.

It's your opinion that some people can benefit from the extra 128gb over the i7 without ever addressing the fact that it can be added for virtually free and not an issue in the first place.

Why add it externally when it can be had, for "free", interally?

You can't upgrade to an i7 after the fact, with it being free for some people, and literally almost nothing to everyone else. You can say it's an opinion, but so is everything you ever uttered. You're just wasting everyone's time.

Yet here you are responding to me.
[doublepost=1547731481][/doublepost]

There you go again with the "free" BS.

This is at least the second thread where you just won't let this go. Then you act all put out when people suggest that you appear to be pressuring people into the i7.

I think we've reached the point where it seems disingenuous and you really just want people to think the same way you do about the mini and their money. And the vast majority of people don't.

One could argue his opinion is in the minority as evidenced by Apple offering the Core i5 in its stock configuration and the i7 in anything other than a BTO configuration.

 

[Candurin]

Clearly, you all could fix the government shutdown. I’m impressed by the level of debating being exhibited by all.

No, I have nothing to add. Opinion, fact, supposition or otherwise. Just wanted to “high five” for the enjoyable volley.

 

[Cheapassmac]

I state there are some who may prefer the additional 128GB capacity over the i7 processor.


Why add it externally when it can be had, for "free", interally?


Yet here you are responding to me.
[doublepost=1547731481][/doublepost]
One could argue his opinion is in the minority as evidenced by Apple offering the Core i5 in its stock configuration and the i7 in anything other than a BTO configuration.

1. You still are dancing around the fact that the additional 128gb can be added easily, after the fact, and at a low cost. The same can't be said about the i7 and you never address that fact.

2. It's your choice to have the 128gb for no extra cost over the i7. Some people rather have $20 instead of $200, you can keep your garbage opinion if you won't bother justifying it.

3. If it means saving others from wasting their time, I'm more then happy to keep you company

4. One could argue that Apple would rather have you buy the i5 stock config because it's more profitable to them. Trying to tie my opinion to the minority with non related events just means you fail at logic.

 

[pl1984]

1. You still are dancing around the fact that the additional 128gb can be added easily, after the fact, and at a low cost. The same can't be said about the i7 and you never address that fact.

I'm not addressing it because I don't disagree with it. So what's there to discuss?

2. It's your choice to have the 128gb for no extra cost over the i7. Some people rather have $20 instead of $200, you can keep your garbage opinion if you won't bother justifying it.

It's not my opinion but that of everyone who chooses to purchase the stock i5 config over a base i3 upgraded to an i7 processor. If you disagree with that fine. I think you've made a reasonable argument for your position. However that doesn't negate there are people who may opt for the stock i5 configuration instead.

3. If it means saving others from wasting their time, I'm more then happy to keep you company

Your arrogance knows no bounds does it? Not only do you know what configuration everyone should buy but you've also appointed yourself as the savior for everyone else too.

4. One could argue that Apple would rather have you buy the i5 stock config because it's more profitable to them. Trying to tie my opinion to the minority with non related events just means you fail at logic.

You could and that could be a perfectly valid argument. What I do know is your opinion isn't offered in a stock configuration whereas the position I've raised is.

 

[Cheapassmac]

I'm not addressing it because I don't disagree with it. So what's there to discuss?


It's not my opinion but that of everyone who chooses to purchase the stock i5 config over a base i3 upgraded to an i7 processor. If you disagree with that fine. I think you've made a reasonable argument for your position. However that doesn't negate there are people who may opt for the stock i5 configuration instead.


Your arrogance knows no bounds does it? Not only do you know what configuration everyone should buy but you've also appointed yourself as the savior for everyone else too.


You could and that could be a perfectly valid argument. What I do know is your opinion isn't offered in a stock configuration whereas the position I've raised is.

1. Because it's an important point that undermines what your point. If you actually agreed, you would have mention it with your opinion. You didn't want transparency on your opinion as people might have put two and two together.

2. It is your opinion that the extra 128gb is better than the i7 config. You constantly mention this point. Just because you try to distance yourself from it with "it is of some people's opinion" doesn't change that. If you had no real opinion, then why bother saying anything at all. It's already public knowledge, you just choose to keep bring the point up.

3. Takes one to know one, and I don't plan to be a savior, that's all you buddy.

4. You were trying to link me to an arbitrary fact, trying to intentionally devaluing my opinion. Somehow a BTO option is less of a choice then a stock option is a head scratcher, but I suppose that is expected of pl1984

 

[pl1984]

1. Because it's an important point that undermines what your point. If you actually agreed, you would have mention it with your opinion. You didn't want transparency on your opinion as people might have put two and two together.

I haven't mentioned that water is wet and that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Doesn't mean I disagree with either of the statements.

2. It is your opinion that the extra 128gb is better than the i7 config. You constantly mention this point. Just because you try to distance yourself from it with "it is of some people's opinion" doesn't change that. If you had no real opinion, then why bother saying anything at all. It's already public knowledge, you just choose to keep bring the point up.

I didn't offer my opinion, I said there are those who may argue the extra 128GB capacity in the stock i5 config may be more valuable than the performance offered by the i7 processor. I suspect Apple has sold quite a number of the stock i5 configurations yet you act as if such a preference couldn't exist. I don't know what you have against the stock i5 configuration to make you argue so vehemently against it but it's not healthy.

3. Takes one to know one, and I don't plan to be a savior, that's all you buddy.

This response says it all. If this is the best you can muster my point has been made. This is the kind of response one finds on a kindergarten playground, not a reasoned discussion. I'm done.

4. You were trying to link me to an arbitrary fact, trying to intentionally devaluing my opinion. Somehow a BTO option is less of a choice then a stock option is a head scratcher, but I suppose that is expected of pl1984

 

[Ploki]

I skipped a bunch of pages in the middle because I really don't want to be involved with the more 'colorful' debate so I might have missed it... but I was thinking on going with the i7 because I do a lot with Parallels for Windows10 VM, and soon to be Kali linux and some other random OS's... I'm assuming that will take advantage of the hyperthreading?

--rob

I don't know how much CPU Parallels consume, you probably know that better.
But.
i3 has less power than i5 has less power than i7. Simple as that, not much to it. If you need CPU power get i7. If you don't but would like to have some breathing room, get i5. If you don't care and want to go cheap get i3.

 

[Cheapassmac]

I haven't mentioned that water is wet and that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Doesn't mean I disagree with either of the statements.

This response says it all. If this is the best you can muster my point has been made. This is the kind of response one finds on a kindergarten playground, not a reasoned discussion. I'm done.

Water is wet is not relevant to your opinion. Had you mention that the i7 was a better value while stating that some people like having 128gb, it would have given transparency and prospective to the topic at hand.

You point out and belittle my response, but it was the only response you earned from the prior post. This basically acknowledge that your post was the same. I'm more than happy to play in the mud with you.

However, if you're finally done, I'm content provided you don't respond

 

[Hessel89]

Not looking to getting into a big argument, but getting back on the subject, I argued that the i5 (all other specs being equal) would be better value for money than the i7 for most people.
I said this because you pay a 20% premium over the i5 model while the measured performance isn't a 20% gain. And that's only measuring the processor speed, which isn't the only factor in a computer.

I had both the i5 and the i7 model so I'm just giving you my opinion based on my measurements.

i5: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/11419948 (21679)

i7: https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/11661038 (24669)

I should add that sometimes the i7 does score around to 26900, but only when the stars align so to speak. It's outcome is very volatile in that sense.

Personally I'm still debating wether the €240 premium I paid for the BTO i7 model was worth the price and I certainly can't notice any difference right now, however, I'll be using it mainly for music production so those 12 threads instead of 6 actual cores might come in handy in the future.