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IBM Drives - Not For 24/7 Use (!)
- Thread starter blakespot
- Start date
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DAM!!
My Quicksilver came with a 60GB IBM drive and I just got a second one this weekend. I leave my Mac up for days at a time... this really sucks!! I havent had any problems yet and I have had my Quicksiver for a while now... I got it right after they came out... so... whats that ... about 9 months or so?
I hope My drives dont fail.......
My Quicksilver came with a 60GB IBM drive and I just got a second one this weekend. I leave my Mac up for days at a time... this really sucks!! I havent had any problems yet and I have had my Quicksiver for a while now... I got it right after they came out... so... whats that ... about 9 months or so?
I hope My drives dont fail.......
It might just be me but it seems that this would make sense to me, if I used my printer or scanner constantly for 333 it would die, as would my TV!
Ensign
Ensign
I had a quantum (? I think) HD in my G4 400 (The company got bought out by Maxtor). The drive one day just started to make clicking noises, and wouldn't work unless I held one end up, so i just did that, and backed up my data. I've also seen the same drive go bad in several dells. If Apple made Hard Drives, they would be faster, simpler, and have great reliability!
A little off topic, but i wonder if it would be possible to attach 5 gigs of RAM (10 512mb chips) to an IDE controler? Can you say fast! (and expensive). That would be cool...
A little off topic, but i wonder if it would be possible to attach 5 gigs of RAM (10 512mb chips) to an IDE controler? Can you say fast! (and expensive). That would be cool...
you are right. Electronics are not perfect. They have to take a rest just like a car, a human, animals, and anything else. If we tried to stay up for 333 hours, we would probably get very sick and weak and not be able to do anything for a long time. If a car was running for 333 hours it would definately die(not to mention refueling). If your computer is not a server, then just turn it off at not and you won't have to worry. If it is a server then replace it with a Seagate if you are worried about your files.(I wonder what the Apple and Akaimi servers are using for hard drives?) They are most likely on for 24/7. Just don't be to scared over it. Either way you should always have a backup for your hard drive. I back up all my important apps like Final Cut, After Effects, and all the other thousands of dollars worth of applications I have on my iPod and on a tape drive.
You could physically attach 5 gigs of ram onto a controller. But it can only recognize a certain amount(not sure what it is). Take the G4 Sawtooth for example. It has 4 ram slots. You could physically put in 2 gigs, but it only recognizes 1.5, so I wouldn't waste your money if you were thinking of trying it.
A life form's need for sleep has nothing to do with and is not an excuse for this shortcoming of the IBM drives. Machines do not need "rest" in the sense that animals do. It shouldn't matter whether a machine operates with 6 hour intervals of inoperation spread throghout, or if it's a continuous run, so to speak. Wear and tear is going to happen at the same rate during periods of work. There is no "healing" as there is in animals. An overabundance of heat can complicate this situation, and that is presumably what is happening here.
Why should I have to turn off my machine. My desktop PC is a Unix server, for all intents and purposes. I can access it via http, ftp, ssh, etc. I find it useful to be able to hit it from the office. I have not turned a computer off at night since 1994. If IBM drives are not up to this challenge, it should be written across the front of the drive in large, red letters.
I've had other hard drives with MTBF's on the order of hundreds of thousands of hours. A Quantum ProDrive 700 SCSI I still have has a 25-year (24/7 operation) MTBF rating. It still works after 8 years of operation and lives in an Amiga 2000 presently. I am sad to see this from IBM.
blakespot
100GB Western Digital Cavier, 7,200 RPM spin speed delivers top performance.
WD Caviar Series
Western Digital's WD Caviar 7200 RPM EIDE hard drives are the performance champions for advanced desktop personal computers. The latest drives achieve world-class areal densities and a wide range of drive capacities ideal for storing Internet downloads, music and video files. WD Caviar 7200 RPM drives offer Ultra ATA/100 and Ultra ATA/66 interfaces, low seek times and up to 100 MB/s data transfer rates, all of which add up to a fast data delivery system.
Specs:
RPM: 7200; Access time: 8.9 ms; Cache buffer: 2 MB; Interface: Ultra ATA; Warranty: 3 years
Seagate Barracuda IV drive combines high storage capacity with silent running.
New Seagate Barracuda IV with fourth-generation fluid dynamic bearing Technology allows this 7200-rpm 80GB IDE drive to offer top-notch performance while keeping sound levels below the threshold of human perception.
The Barrcuda IV has a 2 MB internal cache buffer & 8.9 ms average seek time. The drive's Ultra DMA/100 interface allows for burst transfers up to 100 MBps. To further boost the drive's reliability, the company incorporated its 3D Defense System data and diagnostic protection.
Barracuda ATA IV Drives
Seagate Barracuda ATA IV family of disc drives consist of 20, 40, 60 and 80 GB capacities. The Ultra DMA/100 Barracuda ATA IV has 2MB internal cache and rates it as being able to provide internal transfers up to 555 megabits per second (equivalent to about 69MB per second) and an 8.9-ms average seek time. The drive's Ultra DMA/100 interface allows for burst transfers up to 100 MBps.
Seagate has incorporated a new SoftSonic motor with a fourth-generation fluid dynamic bearing allows this 7200-rpm 80GB IDE drive to offer top-notch performance while keeping sound levels below the threshold of human perception.
Specs:
Speed: 72,00 RPM; Seek time: 8.9 ms (Avg); Cache Buffer: 2 MB Warranty: 3 Years
New Maxtor 536DX , 100 GB 5400 RPM drives.
Their Ultra ATA/100 interface and 2MB SDRAM cache buffer provide data transfer speeds up to 100 megabytes per second. They also have Maxtor Adaptive ATA Control for unsurpassed data integrity and Maxtor Silent Store technology for whisper-quiet acoustic performance.
Maxtor 536DX ATA Drives
Maximize your computers data storage capacity with Maxtor 536DX hard drives. These high-capacity drives, available in formatted capacities up to 100GB, are designed for fast desktop systems and small workstations. Theyre specifically suited to storage-hungry multimedia and Internet applications where high burst and sustained transfer rates are crucial. Their Ultra ATA/100 interface and 2MB SDRAM cache buffer provide data transfer speeds up to 100 megabytes per second.
Specs:
Speed: 54,00 RPM; Seek time: 9 ms (Avg); Cache Buffer: 2 MB Warranty: 3 Years.
IBM DeskStar 120 GXP
The Deskstar 120GXP sets a new standard in disk drive performance with a maximum media data rate of 592 megabits per second (MBbits/s) internal transfer rate, and 8.5 milliseconds (ms) average seek time, delivering optimal multimedia performance and video playback. These combine to enable leading sustained data rate of up to 48MB/sec.
Specs:
RPM: 7200; Acces time: 8.5 ms; Cache buffer: 2 MB; Interface: Ultra ATA-5; Warranty: 3 years
Technology for capacity and performance
? Antiferromagnetically coupled (AFC) media enables higher capacities per square inch of data surface. ? Glass disks provide smoother media for the ever-shrinking bit size. ? Three-disk design provides leading 120GB capacity at 7,200rpm. ? IBM-designed onboard processor provides faster speeds than the previous generation. ? Advanced buffer management bursts data to the system at up to 100MB/sec. ? Enhanced servo system provides reliable head positioning.
and for those who dont mind following a link and reading check out this article on ibm's drives http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/press/20011107.htm
and this article on ibm's microdrive:
http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/press/micro/20020220b.htm
ibm in my mind is still the leaderin modile harddrives. looks like they might be seeing some stiff competition for the desktop market though and this news is not doing them any good. i can remember the day when maxtor and western digital were considered the bottom of the barrel as far as hardware is considered and seagate was too expensive. things have changed and ibm is not doing what it needs to do to stay in control of desktop hardware.
WD Caviar Series
Western Digital's WD Caviar 7200 RPM EIDE hard drives are the performance champions for advanced desktop personal computers. The latest drives achieve world-class areal densities and a wide range of drive capacities ideal for storing Internet downloads, music and video files. WD Caviar 7200 RPM drives offer Ultra ATA/100 and Ultra ATA/66 interfaces, low seek times and up to 100 MB/s data transfer rates, all of which add up to a fast data delivery system.
Specs:
RPM: 7200; Access time: 8.9 ms; Cache buffer: 2 MB; Interface: Ultra ATA; Warranty: 3 years
Seagate Barracuda IV drive combines high storage capacity with silent running.
New Seagate Barracuda IV with fourth-generation fluid dynamic bearing Technology allows this 7200-rpm 80GB IDE drive to offer top-notch performance while keeping sound levels below the threshold of human perception.
The Barrcuda IV has a 2 MB internal cache buffer & 8.9 ms average seek time. The drive's Ultra DMA/100 interface allows for burst transfers up to 100 MBps. To further boost the drive's reliability, the company incorporated its 3D Defense System data and diagnostic protection.
Barracuda ATA IV Drives
Seagate Barracuda ATA IV family of disc drives consist of 20, 40, 60 and 80 GB capacities. The Ultra DMA/100 Barracuda ATA IV has 2MB internal cache and rates it as being able to provide internal transfers up to 555 megabits per second (equivalent to about 69MB per second) and an 8.9-ms average seek time. The drive's Ultra DMA/100 interface allows for burst transfers up to 100 MBps.
Seagate has incorporated a new SoftSonic motor with a fourth-generation fluid dynamic bearing allows this 7200-rpm 80GB IDE drive to offer top-notch performance while keeping sound levels below the threshold of human perception.
Specs:
Speed: 72,00 RPM; Seek time: 8.9 ms (Avg); Cache Buffer: 2 MB Warranty: 3 Years
New Maxtor 536DX , 100 GB 5400 RPM drives.
Their Ultra ATA/100 interface and 2MB SDRAM cache buffer provide data transfer speeds up to 100 megabytes per second. They also have Maxtor Adaptive ATA Control for unsurpassed data integrity and Maxtor Silent Store technology for whisper-quiet acoustic performance.
Maxtor 536DX ATA Drives
Maximize your computers data storage capacity with Maxtor 536DX hard drives. These high-capacity drives, available in formatted capacities up to 100GB, are designed for fast desktop systems and small workstations. Theyre specifically suited to storage-hungry multimedia and Internet applications where high burst and sustained transfer rates are crucial. Their Ultra ATA/100 interface and 2MB SDRAM cache buffer provide data transfer speeds up to 100 megabytes per second.
Specs:
Speed: 54,00 RPM; Seek time: 9 ms (Avg); Cache Buffer: 2 MB Warranty: 3 Years.
IBM DeskStar 120 GXP
The Deskstar 120GXP sets a new standard in disk drive performance with a maximum media data rate of 592 megabits per second (MBbits/s) internal transfer rate, and 8.5 milliseconds (ms) average seek time, delivering optimal multimedia performance and video playback. These combine to enable leading sustained data rate of up to 48MB/sec.
Specs:
RPM: 7200; Acces time: 8.5 ms; Cache buffer: 2 MB; Interface: Ultra ATA-5; Warranty: 3 years
Technology for capacity and performance
? Antiferromagnetically coupled (AFC) media enables higher capacities per square inch of data surface. ? Glass disks provide smoother media for the ever-shrinking bit size. ? Three-disk design provides leading 120GB capacity at 7,200rpm. ? IBM-designed onboard processor provides faster speeds than the previous generation. ? Advanced buffer management bursts data to the system at up to 100MB/sec. ? Enhanced servo system provides reliable head positioning.
and for those who dont mind following a link and reading check out this article on ibm's drives http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/press/20011107.htm
and this article on ibm's microdrive:
http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/press/micro/20020220b.htm
ibm in my mind is still the leaderin modile harddrives. looks like they might be seeing some stiff competition for the desktop market though and this news is not doing them any good. i can remember the day when maxtor and western digital were considered the bottom of the barrel as far as hardware is considered and seagate was too expensive. things have changed and ibm is not doing what it needs to do to stay in control of desktop hardware.
What can you expect?
IDE-drives has gone cheaper and bigger every day the last 10 years. I must say I shed a few tears when Apple dropepd SCSI. IDE-drives are just not made for 24/7 use and they sure are low-quality! We bought 17 iMacs with 10GB Maxtor in them in June 2000. 10 of these now makes too much noise to be used! My 30GB Seagate in my PC has bad sectors. I have at least 10 faulty Quantum Fireball drives in my shelves. On the other hand most SCSI-drives works just fine. I have one 1,3GB Seagate from 1992 which still runs fine (it has been fitted in a server until 2000).
Sure, SCSI costs a lot more but you sure gain power and reliability. Our G4 867 which acts as a NetBoot server for 25 iMacs is fitted with a 36GB 15k rpm Segate and an Adaptec 29160. Sweet... The 1,1GB Ram also contributes to the over all experience of Mac OS X Server...
The main issue here is money. We have all complained about the high prices on Macs. Apple made them conform more to PC-standards (IDE, SDRAM, AGP, and so on) which sure make them cheaper but also as "low quality" as PC:s.
On the issue of being run 24/7: Most electronics likes to run all the time. Most error occur at powercycles. I would guess that if you never shut down your GXP it would surely run for several years. The heat the discs generate makes the discs inside expand and every time you shut down your computer it contracts as it cools down. This can cause serious damage to the entire drive.
IDE-drives has gone cheaper and bigger every day the last 10 years. I must say I shed a few tears when Apple dropepd SCSI. IDE-drives are just not made for 24/7 use and they sure are low-quality! We bought 17 iMacs with 10GB Maxtor in them in June 2000. 10 of these now makes too much noise to be used! My 30GB Seagate in my PC has bad sectors. I have at least 10 faulty Quantum Fireball drives in my shelves. On the other hand most SCSI-drives works just fine. I have one 1,3GB Seagate from 1992 which still runs fine (it has been fitted in a server until 2000).
Sure, SCSI costs a lot more but you sure gain power and reliability. Our G4 867 which acts as a NetBoot server for 25 iMacs is fitted with a 36GB 15k rpm Segate and an Adaptec 29160. Sweet... The 1,1GB Ram also contributes to the over all experience of Mac OS X Server...
The main issue here is money. We have all complained about the high prices on Macs. Apple made them conform more to PC-standards (IDE, SDRAM, AGP, and so on) which sure make them cheaper but also as "low quality" as PC:s.
On the issue of being run 24/7: Most electronics likes to run all the time. Most error occur at powercycles. I would guess that if you never shut down your GXP it would surely run for several years. The heat the discs generate makes the discs inside expand and every time you shut down your computer it contracts as it cools down. This can cause serious damage to the entire drive.
My G4/533 will be 1 year old in April.
This machine in powered on about 15hrs of every day. And about a month ago my IBM 40GB (7,200RPM) failed.
Of course, Apple replaced the drive (under warranty) and now I've got a Maxtor in my tower. I'm just glad the POS IBM broke before my year was up.
I bet IBM was counting on the thing to make it just beyond a year so I'd have to spend my own money on a new drive. Seems like a lot of electronics work that way.
This machine in powered on about 15hrs of every day. And about a month ago my IBM 40GB (7,200RPM) failed.
Of course, Apple replaced the drive (under warranty) and now I've got a Maxtor in my tower. I'm just glad the POS IBM broke before my year was up.
I bet IBM was counting on the thing to make it just beyond a year so I'd have to spend my own money on a new drive. Seems like a lot of electronics work that way.
Just talked to IBM Support
I have a DP450 G4. Apple System Profiler reports that my drive is an IBM DTLA-307030. According to IBM's website my drive is a DeskStar 75GXP 30gb 7200, which jives with what Apple System Profiler reports.
I talked to IBM's tech support on this drive (888-426-5214) and the technician told me the the 333 hr/month is an average expected usage figure and NOT a specification which shouldn't be exceeded.
I read to him the following from the blakespot article:
"So...as indicated by IBM, if you have any GXP series drive and leave it on more than 333 hours month (11 hours/day avg) then you are exceeding its spec and failure would seem to lay in wait."
The tech told me the above statement was false.
I have a DP450 G4. Apple System Profiler reports that my drive is an IBM DTLA-307030. According to IBM's website my drive is a DeskStar 75GXP 30gb 7200, which jives with what Apple System Profiler reports.
I talked to IBM's tech support on this drive (888-426-5214) and the technician told me the the 333 hr/month is an average expected usage figure and NOT a specification which shouldn't be exceeded.
I read to him the following from the blakespot article:
"So...as indicated by IBM, if you have any GXP series drive and leave it on more than 333 hours month (11 hours/day avg) then you are exceeding its spec and failure would seem to lay in wait."
The tech told me the above statement was false.
This is interesting. So you mean to tell me that the harddrive in my new G4 may die after about a month of continuous use? I was always leery about ATA drives. Cheap but at what cost the relative low price? My other Mac which is 4 years old now has a SCSI drive setup and it runs perfect. I even put a Seagate Cheetah 10k rpm harddrive in it. Sounds like a jet engine spooling up, I actually think it's kind of cool. Can the new machines be outfitted with SCSI even if came with ATA drives?
but then you have to go searching through your CDs to find the file. I know you can label them or use programs so you can search through them, but those all take time and are unnecessary if you just have them all on your hard drive. And as cheap as CDs are becoming these days, they're still not free. It's also very nice being able to just hit shuffle on my 30 gig of MP3s (when I'm not listenign to my 400 disc CD player, I like big things)
bollman, I totally agree, I was about to say that same thing about the power cycles. Now, this isn't backed up by anything, but I've heard/it makes sense that the jolt from power up and the temperature changes as well can cause more damage than keeping the drive (or any electrical component) at the same temperature for it's entire life (obviously as long as it's an appropriately low temperature). Sort of like how the stop and go of highway traffic is worse on your car than just driving 65 mph for an extended period of time.
I really don't think that's true. Take my G3 for instance. I don't think it has been off for 24 hours since i bought it and took it to college at MIT. Even over breaks, I leave it on as a fileserver so I can always get to my stuff from home. It works. i guess I've jsut had really good luck with my hard drive. i really should look at options to back up my stuff. Another example would be say the laser printer in our computer cluster. During the last month before finals it has paper being printed out of it almost 24/7 and the rest of the time it only gets small breaks (I love our school's free printing policies). Things are built to last and endure. I don't know whether we are just blowing a quote out of context, or if IBM has really dropped the ball on this model drive, but you should be able to expect quality from electronics today.
why large hard drives?
too many people do not use external storage media and it will always remain that way
hard drive space will then always be a big selling point for computer users
too many people do not use external storage media and it will always remain that way
hard drive space will then always be a big selling point for computer users
Re: why large hard drives?
slightly off topic...
But u are right in many ways. Videographers are the first to come to mind when needing massive amounts of external space. Musicians who do digital editing also are in the same space-needing category. The first time I ever saw a RAID array was in a Media100 booth at the NBC affiliate where I interned a few years ago...killer system!!!
I've had external storage ever since I upgraded my TiBook's hd...and the external is almost full now!!!
slightly off topic...
But u are right in many ways. Videographers are the first to come to mind when needing massive amounts of external space. Musicians who do digital editing also are in the same space-needing category. The first time I ever saw a RAID array was in a Media100 booth at the NBC affiliate where I interned a few years ago...killer system!!!
I've had external storage ever since I upgraded my TiBook's hd...and the external is almost full now!!!
You'd need to add an UltraATA/133 PCI interface board to the Mac, but you should be able to have at least 320GB internally to the G4 towers. I can't recall whether or not there is a third drive mountpoint in the case, but if so that'd be 480GB total internally. (Maxtor's 160GB drive is the highest capacity out there.)
blakespot