IBM vs. Intel

[Snowy_River]

thatwendigo you are something special!, looking at AMD64 3400 or 3200 or even P4s at 3.0 with directx these things are pushing 100 to 200 FPS then a dual G5 pushing open GL can. when comparing the 1 AMDfx51 to 2 2.0 G5s running a open gl game as quake3 Mac world showed at 1024x768 the dual G5 at 294 and Aurora AMDfx51 getting 335 and thats the one Gaming test that Mac can run well. I dont play Quake3 anyways. Thatwendigo just admit it! Mac Hardware doesnt match the otherside unless you are running Photoshop. Apple has to address this problem of selling behind the times hardware or risks loosing it all one day. Look I have had Macs for years and was supporting them but this hardware thing of theirs has bothered me since getting my first Performa and finding out I had to run wolfentein 3d in a little window. That was a great game by the way.

Hey, DHM, I'm afraid that you're wrong. I have to call a spade a spade, and you are completely wrong. There are a lot of issues here that Apple is not directly responsible for that effect the performance on your precious games. First, as I've already pointed out, games aren't written well for Macs. They're written for Windows and then ported (usually poorly, as I already said) to the Mac. This, by its very nature, is a detriment to performance on the Mac.

Second, video card companies don't write drivers for all of their cards, and frequently not for their best cards, for the Mac. Now, I will say that I aim a little bit of criticism at Apple here, as they could try to make it more worthwhile for ATi and others to simply provide drivers (not need to create a whole new card with the ADC). Even with that, though, there is a little bit of a chicken and egg problem here. One of the primary uses for such cards is for gaming (realtime 3D rendering in CAD and other environments is well taken care of with the cards that are currently available). If the only games that could take advantage of these cards are so poorly ported that, even taking advantage of the best, most expensive graphics cards, they can't get the same performance that an off the shelf PC could give, what gamer would spend the money on them? So, again, the primary blame falls at the feet of the game makers.

While I fully support the fact that Macs don't do what you want them to, I really find it incomprehensible why you keep saying that it's because Apple is shipping old, obsolete, faulty, or otherwise bad hardware.

(P.S. Scroll back a bit and you'll recall that I showed you that Mac hardware did better in something other than Photoshop... )

 

[thatwendigo]

anyways thatwendigo its not polite to tell someone to shut up so grow up would you,

Neither are your constant ad hominem attacks on me, but you didn't see me saying much about them when you kept making them. Besides, there's a common aphorism I was paraphrasing: Put up or shut up.

and using a how many year old game for benches like quake 3 is rather mute. I would love someone to post benches from MacWorld & MacAddict but since i dont have it in my computer I cant. Some people still read a thing called magazines. also in 6 months current macs will be eclipsed so what your point reorx?

Moot. The word is moot. Jesus.

Well, some people are using benchmarks that are in a source that's note easily verifiable. That puts the burden of proof on them, which in this case, translates to you. You can't even cite us the relevant information on the print version, though, so why should I even take you seriously?

 

[Snowy_River]

... so why should I even take you seriously?

TW, could I recommend a few deep breaths? For being not to take DHM seriously, you seem to take him very seriously. Suffice that he has his point of view, his expectations about what constitutes computer performance, etc. To the extent to which his ideas are flawed, point them out.

However, I assure you that somewhere, within each of our points of view, there is a truth. It may not be what we think it is, but there is a truth there.

From what I can tell, DHM's truth is that he expects his computer to handle being both a business machine and an entertainment center. He doesn't want to have multiple devices (i.e. computer + gaming console + whatever). So, for him a Mac isn't a good option.

Now, this truth seems to sometimes get obscured with the false leap of logic that because a Mac won't do what he wants it to, that means that Macs are in some sense inferior, 'behind the times technology', etc.

Of course this logic is flawed. Perhaps DHM can't see it. I don't know. But, in any event, you don't need to feel assaulted by DHM. Just point out flawed logic when it comes up. Then let it go...

(BTW, it irritates me, too, a bit when people say/write things like 'it's a mute point'. But, then, I didn't get the nickname 'the wordsmith' for nothing... )

 

[Rower_CPU]

...I didn't get the nickname 'the wordsmith' for nothing...

"Wordsmith"? I thought it was poopsmith...

 

[thatwendigo]

TW, could I recommend a few deep breaths? For being not to take DHM seriously, you seem to take him very seriously. Suffice that he has his point of view, his expectations about what constitutes computer performance, etc. To the extent to which his ideas are flawed, point them out.

There's a history here, unfortunately, and it consists of my making solid, backed, reasoned points, only to have DHM come back and call me a 'G4 lover,' 'Apple zealot,' and a lot of things are are even less rational or polite. I don't tend to just unload on people for no reason, and I've been biting my tongue with this guy for a long time, now. Take a look through my older posts, specifically anything to do with the iMac and eMac, and you'll see why I'm having a little trouble with this guy.

As for not taking him seriously... I don't take his arguments at all seriously, because he never, ever backs anything and resorts to the kind of rhetorical games people played in elementary school. "You don't agree? Well you're a poopie-head!" might as well be subsitituted for most of what he replies with. The reason I get so incandescently pissed, though, is that I worry someone who knows less than I do might fall for it. We have enough ignorance about the mac platform without someone who claims to be a mac supported and user spreading even more.

From what I can tell, DHM's truth is that he expects his computer to handle being both a business machine and an entertainment center. He doesn't want to have multiple devices (i.e. computer + gaming console + whatever). So, for him a Mac isn't a good option.

That's not a truth, just an opinion. I'm a philosophy major, and truth is something we still haven't managed to nail down yet, even after thousands of years of effort.

Of course this logic is flawed. Perhaps DHM can't see it. I don't know. But, in any event, you don't need to feel assaulted by DHM. Just point out flawed logic when it comes up. Then let it go...

But I am assaulted by the guy on a regular basis. Granted, I've grown more and more confrontational as time has gone on, but that's because I already have a great disdain for rednecks of all kinds, and he acts exactly like the people who frequently make my offline life a living hell. Personal issue? Perhaps, but it's exacerbated by his deliberate ignorance, the willful spread thereof, and the way that he doesn't ever seem to learn anything from talking to people.

(BTW, it irritates me, too, a bit when people say/write things like 'it's a mute point'. But, then, I didn't get the nickname 'the wordsmith' for nothing... )

It irritates me even more when people are gently corrected once or twice, but come back with some statement that they don't need to try and that the correction is some kind of diversion.

 

[Snowy_River]

Well, I can understand your frustration. DHM and I actually had a 'conversation' earlier in this thread in which he admitted that the G5 is a good machine for professional uses, just not for gaming. Then, just a few posts later, he started railing on about Apple selling outdated hardware. It certainly is annoying. I was only trying to suggest not taking things so personally.

I can understand, also, worrying about others who are less informed taking what DHM says as being correct. To that, I'd simply offer corrections. Anyone worth their salt will see two contradicting points of view and either conclude that the jury's still out or do more reading. In any event, it gets the point across.

...That's not a truth, just an opinion. I'm a philosophy major, and truth is something we still haven't managed to nail down yet, even after thousands of years of effort...

I'm afraid that I have to disagree with you. Unless you want to get truly pedantic, truth isn't at all hard to define. It is true that DHM expects his computer to act as a high end gaming machine, as well. It is true that he doesn't want to have to buy a gaming console in addition to his computer. These are truths. Given these truths, a Mac isn't a good computer for him to buy. Macs can play games, but they can't go toe-to-toe against PCs when the games are poorly ported to the Mac. This isn't a matter of performance, just of how well a given game is implemented on the Mac vs. Windows.

 

[MikeAtari]

Hope of Apple becoming the best game platform may drive us all crazy.
We are lucky with just 4% of the market(?) that Apple still has the best games, at least, ported to it. The gaming market doesn't follow the best hardware just because it's released and in production.

For me the best "game" is Java with JBuilder X.
Or, X-Plane, ILife's GarageBand, or A.v.Preditor.
Or, Microsoft's Word on the Mac.
I haven't got the time to follow gaming so consumingly.

The only thing we can do is accept Fate.
Accept our Fate that the Universe is telling us, we Mac users must do something Else with our Lives. We were put on this earth to follow the Best, use the Best and enjoy the Best.

 

[MikeAtari]

To Be the Best.

 

[Urdam]

I agree

I agree