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IBM's PowerPC 970FX... at 2.5GHz?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How about this idea
Actually, I meant that it is a wonderful thing. I have been saying all over these boards that Apple needs to get the G5 into as many products as they can ASAP. A lot of the time people respond saying that the alleged IBM G3+Altivec is the next step for many of the machines (in particular the iMac, iBook, and eMac).
However, there still is not solid reason to believe IBM is going to release such a chip. I cannot find a single source the doesn't lead back to the same AppleInsider report.
I say get the G5's into everything but the iBooks by the end of the year. The iBook can stay G4 for a well over another year (since it has splenty of G4 speed bumps left and when it has a different processor than the PowerBook it can be given the SuperDrive).
edit:
Upon further review, not only does every 750VX/"Mojave" rumor trace back to AppleInsider, but also it is constantly earmarked for the iBook line. If it does exist (which I still doubt) it is probably just a way to get the iBook line to up to 2 GHz (so it competes with low-end Wintel notebooks in GHz) while keeping it segregated from the PowerBook. If the rumors are true and it is slated to be released in Q3 2004 in the iBook then most certainly the PowerBook will be G5 at that time. They are not going to put a faster newer chip into the iBooks!!!
Originally posted by Rincewind42
And this is a bad thing because
Actually, I meant that it is a wonderful thing. I have been saying all over these boards that Apple needs to get the G5 into as many products as they can ASAP. A lot of the time people respond saying that the alleged IBM G3+Altivec is the next step for many of the machines (in particular the iMac, iBook, and eMac).
However, there still is not solid reason to believe IBM is going to release such a chip. I cannot find a single source the doesn't lead back to the same AppleInsider report.
I say get the G5's into everything but the iBooks by the end of the year. The iBook can stay G4 for a well over another year (since it has splenty of G4 speed bumps left and when it has a different processor than the PowerBook it can be given the SuperDrive).
edit:
Upon further review, not only does every 750VX/"Mojave" rumor trace back to AppleInsider, but also it is constantly earmarked for the iBook line. If it does exist (which I still doubt) it is probably just a way to get the iBook line to up to 2 GHz (so it competes with low-end Wintel notebooks in GHz) while keeping it segregated from the PowerBook. If the rumors are true and it is slated to be released in Q3 2004 in the iBook then most certainly the PowerBook will be G5 at that time. They are not going to put a faster newer chip into the iBooks!!!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How about this idea
Yea, I've always been in the camp that the 750VX doesn't exist, mostly for the reason that Moto's G4, while not as advanced, will probably do fine for the iBooks. After all, Pentium-M notebooks are only doing 1.6Ghz right now iirc, and may hit 2Ghz by the end of the year. But P-M notebooks are also the high end of the PC market, so I think Apple would probably consider the iBook against the P-M rather than the P4M, while the PB goes off past 2Ghz with the 970.
Yea, I've always been in the camp that the 750VX doesn't exist, mostly for the reason that Moto's G4, while not as advanced, will probably do fine for the iBooks. After all, Pentium-M notebooks are only doing 1.6Ghz right now iirc, and may hit 2Ghz by the end of the year. But P-M notebooks are also the high end of the PC market, so I think Apple would probably consider the iBook against the P-M rather than the P4M, while the PB goes off past 2Ghz with the 970.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How about this idea
Additionally, they have to compete with the Athlon 64 notebooks that are already out there doing 1.8 GHz. I believe that Apple knows that the G5 PowerBook is a must. If for no other reason that to seperate them from the iBooks. Right main thing seperating them is the SuperDrive (sure the PB's have slightly faster G4's, but not by much heck both are availible at 1 GHz).
Like I said, I doubt the 750VX exists. Even if it does, it is not the future of the PowerBook (or even the iMac/eMac).
Additionally, they have to compete with the Athlon 64 notebooks that are already out there doing 1.8 GHz. I believe that Apple knows that the G5 PowerBook is a must. If for no other reason that to seperate them from the iBooks. Right main thing seperating them is the SuperDrive (sure the PB's have slightly faster G4's, but not by much heck both are availible at 1 GHz).
Like I said, I doubt the 750VX exists. Even if it does, it is not the future of the PowerBook (or even the iMac/eMac).
G5 PB RAM
Am I right in thinking that the G5 Powerbooks when they finally come out are going to have to have ram obey the rules seen with the towers, that is two sticks of the same ram? Is this going to be a problem for people because those wanting 3rd party ram face buying at least two sticks of 256?
Could apple possibly come up with a different configuration, like two sticks on the motherboard of 256 and two slots free?
What about 4 slots like the 1.6? To big even for the 15 and 17?
Am I right in thinking that the G5 Powerbooks when they finally come out are going to have to have ram obey the rules seen with the towers, that is two sticks of the same ram? Is this going to be a problem for people because those wanting 3rd party ram face buying at least two sticks of 256?
Could apple possibly come up with a different configuration, like two sticks on the motherboard of 256 and two slots free?
What about 4 slots like the 1.6? To big even for the 15 and 17?
Re: G5 PB RAM
I believe this is not correct. I think that the memory in pairs is not a function of the G5 itself, but of the system bus on the motherboard. I am not an expert, but glancing at this block diagram seems to confirm this. You should be able to have a G5 chip without having the memory in pairs.
Originally posted by aswitcher
Am I right in thinking that the G5 Powerbooks when they finally come out are going to have to have ram obey the rules seen with the towers, that is two sticks of the same ram? Is this going to be a problem for people because those wanting 3rd party ram face buying at least two sticks of 256?
Could apple possibly come up with a different configuration, like two sticks on the motherboard of 256 and two slots free?
What about 4 slots like the 1.6? To big even for the 15 and 17?
I believe this is not correct. I think that the memory in pairs is not a function of the G5 itself, but of the system bus on the motherboard. I am not an expert, but glancing at this block diagram seems to confirm this. You should be able to have a G5 chip without having the memory in pairs.
just occured to me, the powerbook G5 maybe awaiting DDR2, so far these module consume alot less power, less heat and are much smaller than thier DDR parts. IMO the powerbooks will be anounced at the next show in June/July with availability in october/november. So much is gona start happening in the computer industry 2Q, 3Q, and 4Q, all components will move onto the next generation.
Re: Re: G5 PB RAM
If thier not in pairs you dont get the whole BW for the memory because of the dual channel design, you think pairs are bad try double pairs for the DUAL Opteron (even with 3 sticks it runs in single channel mode, it needs the full 4) and more for the latter.
If thier not in pairs you dont get the whole BW for the memory because of the dual channel design, you think pairs are bad try double pairs for the DUAL Opteron (even with 3 sticks it runs in single channel mode, it needs the full 4) and more for the latter.
Oct/Nov...too far away for me...Even a G4PB tweak and price drop would do me rather than wait 8-9 months...
too far but realistic, think about it. What other show can they announce the PB G5's. OK so availability might be immediate in June/July 5-6 months? Then again DDR2 is gona be expensive hmm. It maybe better to wait until the modules mature enough, iam prety sure it will hurt high BW machines such as the G5/Opteron/FX due to the rediculous latencies in the current 533MHz modules, could be better to wait the the 666/800Mhz DDR2 modules.
Re: G5 PB RAM
It may be less performance, but I don't think that Apple will design the PowerBook G5 motherboard to require RAM sticks in matched pairs - there is just too little free space on the motherboard to make this a simple thing to design. None-the-less I wouldn't put it past them to design a PBG5 for pure performance and give it 4 RAM slots. But I also don't think the PBG5 will use DDR-400 SO-DIMMs (from what I've heard in the past they are notoriously hard to find).
Personally for various reasons, I would expect the PBG5 to initially clock in no higher than 1.5/1.65/1.8 Ghz on a 500/550/600Mhz bus.
It may be less performance, but I don't think that Apple will design the PowerBook G5 motherboard to require RAM sticks in matched pairs - there is just too little free space on the motherboard to make this a simple thing to design. None-the-less I wouldn't put it past them to design a PBG5 for pure performance and give it 4 RAM slots. But I also don't think the PBG5 will use DDR-400 SO-DIMMs (from what I've heard in the past they are notoriously hard to find).
Personally for various reasons, I would expect the PBG5 to initially clock in no higher than 1.5/1.65/1.8 Ghz on a 500/550/600Mhz bus.
Re: Re: G5 PB RAM
Well waiting 8-9 months for that...nice to have a G5 but thats its a long wait for a slight speed improvement. Sure they will also tweka the graphics card, maybe a better screen, etc but I am not sure how much better it will really be over a G4 I could buy now...
Well waiting 8-9 months for that...nice to have a G5 but thats its a long wait for a slight speed improvement. Sure they will also tweka the graphics card, maybe a better screen, etc but I am not sure how much better it will really be over a G4 I could buy now...
I agree. The last PB update (Paris) were they availible almost immediately (not counting BTO's)?
So there is no way to make a single processor G5 to see a single ram chip? I would hope Apple can figure out how.
It's not a matter of the chips must be installed in pairs, but rather that you get more bandwidth that way. You can certainly create a G5 system that took RAM in singles, but you'd get max 3.2 GBps (with PC3200 RAM) vs the 6.4 GBps that the top end PowerMac G5s get.
Now, a G5 running on a 500Mhz bus would get a combined bandwidth of about 4GBps (2GBps in each direction). Assuming no more than 2 RAM chips on the system in a non-dual channel setup that means you could write one PC2700 chip while reading from another at full bandwidth (or even do so for PC2100 chips for that matter). A 600Mhz bus could max out at 4.8 GBps (2.4GBps each direction) which would still not saturate a PC2700 chip.
So for the bus speeds that I think are likely in a PowerBook (3:1 instead of the 2:1 in the PowerMacs) I don't think that dual channel will be necessary. Now if they decide to go for more industry ball busting, then they would probably go ahead and do PC3200 dual channel 4 slots and 2:1 bus ratio. But then I would also expect them to give us 2Ghz G5s in the low-end models and 2 hour battery lives
.
Thanks, that answers the original question posted by aswitcher who was concerned that G5 PB's would have to have two open slots which would have to be filled in tandem.
So other than heat/cooling issues are there an real hurdles in the way of G5 PB's. I don't really believe these are major obstacles as I assume Apple knows/has known what to expect heat wise from the 970fx chips for quite some time. In general, how long before actual production would Apple get prototypes to design around.
If the G5 pbook update will only become available arround Oct, it only makes sense for Apple to release an updated version of the current model. I don't see how Apple can keep on selling the current model for extra 8-9 months. This will mean that the current model will be going for more than 1 year. This does not make sense. The current model is already "behind", and having it as the top model for so much time is stupid.
If Apple do know that they need 8 more months for the G5, they will release an updated version that will carry them throughout this time. What they might put in it is unknown, but maybe the reports at macosrumors.com are correct and we will see the new model in the next 2 weeks or so. Seeing an updated version should also be seen as an hint about when the G5 version will be out (about 6-8 months).
Anyway, Apple could also take as all by surprise, and release the G5 powerbook in 2-3 weeks...Yeah right.
I am still holding my powerbook purchase until the end of Feb.
Good luck for us all.
If Apple do know that they need 8 more months for the G5, they will release an updated version that will carry them throughout this time. What they might put in it is unknown, but maybe the reports at macosrumors.com are correct and we will see the new model in the next 2 weeks or so. Seeing an updated version should also be seen as an hint about when the G5 version will be out (about 6-8 months).
Anyway, Apple could also take as all by surprise, and release the G5 powerbook in 2-3 weeks...Yeah right.
I am still holding my powerbook purchase until the end of Feb.
Good luck for us all.
I find interesting that we know the new processors (970FX) are going in Xserves. We know they can do dual 2 Ghz in a 1U enclosure.
WHY THE HECK HAVE THE TOWERS NOT BEEN ANNOUNCED?
Do they not have any chips besides 2Ghz?
...wait... I get it. The 970FX is just out. The Xserve was announced because it's a brand new product that is announced before it's shipped. The speed upgrades on the G5 towers will be announced ONCE they can be shipped without (long) wait. That means that the towers will probably be announced in March, when the first Xserve G5's start becoming available. I think this makes sense. Right?
WHY THE HECK HAVE THE TOWERS NOT BEEN ANNOUNCED?
Do they not have any chips besides 2Ghz?
...wait... I get it. The 970FX is just out. The Xserve was announced because it's a brand new product that is announced before it's shipped. The speed upgrades on the G5 towers will be announced ONCE they can be shipped without (long) wait. That means that the towers will probably be announced in March, when the first Xserve G5's start becoming available. I think this makes sense. Right?
Yeah, the wait continues.
If they do a new G4 PB, a slight speed boost would be nice. Shame there is no likelyhood of putting in a better bus.
Beefed up L2 might help?
A price drop - especially for Oz - would also be very well received
Having Airport X and Bluetooth standard on all models makes sense.
Faster superdrive. Maybe super as standard?
Bumped graphics card. 9800?
Larger standarded harddisk - 80 Gig - possibly faster?
Minimuim 512 MB Ram would be another smart standard - its a power book after all.
Appleworks as standard would be another step to promote
Apple's stuff...but I wonder if the deal with Microsoft in January might preclude such an option.
An OEM discounted version of Office would also be good - something present for most PC systems.
I think that completes my wish list if I must by a new G4 PB
Anybody got any other ideas?
if you are talking about PB
no 9700er mobility, takes more energy afaik
just use the 9600pro.
harddisk: most ppl wont need faster than 4200RPM.
maybe as a BTO option (60/80 GB 7200)
bluetooth and airport extreme default makes sense - yes.
higher resolutions would be good!
12" 1280*960 (non widescreen) SXGA
14" 1400*1050 (non widescreen) SXGA+
15" 1400*1050 (non widescreen) SXGA+
15" 1440*900 (widescreen) WXGA
17" 1680*1050 (widescreen) WSXGA+
but apple still stells low resolution cheap crap displays in their PBs
i dont get that. (well its a sireous cost factor - still i dont get it)
no 9700er mobility, takes more energy afaik
just use the 9600pro.
harddisk: most ppl wont need faster than 4200RPM.
maybe as a BTO option (60/80 GB 7200)
bluetooth and airport extreme default makes sense - yes.
higher resolutions would be good!
12" 1280*960 (non widescreen) SXGA
14" 1400*1050 (non widescreen) SXGA+
15" 1400*1050 (non widescreen) SXGA+
15" 1440*900 (widescreen) WXGA
17" 1680*1050 (widescreen) WSXGA+
but apple still stells low resolution cheap crap displays in their PBs
i dont get that. (well its a sireous cost factor - still i dont get it)
following on from the screen resolution point - as a recent convert to OS X, is it me or is all the text bigger in OS X than in OS 9? I mean system stuff, like Finder windows etc.
I've seen PC laptops with incredibly high resolutions, (1600 x whatever), in the same size screen as my Pismo (1024 x whatever) however XP at the resolution requires you to have excellent eyesight.
My Pismo running OS X looks big and chunky against my sister's iMac 17". Looks like OS X was designed to work on higher resolution screens.
(hope this makes sense!!)
I've seen PC laptops with incredibly high resolutions, (1600 x whatever), in the same size screen as my Pismo (1024 x whatever) however XP at the resolution requires you to have excellent eyesight.
My Pismo running OS X looks big and chunky against my sister's iMac 17". Looks like OS X was designed to work on higher resolution screens.
(hope this makes sense!!)
You're right, OSX is really made for slightly higher resolutions, but not necessarily those extremely hi-res people speak of. You're Pismo is a few years old, introduced in Feb of 2000. The newer line of Powerbooks has higher resolutions - and has for a while.
It would be nice if Apple had at least one option for a really high-res display in their pro laptops, maybe as a BTO option. But general demand (and marketing) may be indicating different. As you said- reading stuff on a small (14-15") 1600x1200 screen is not good on the eyes- it's not for everyone.
OK, back to the subject. When do we get new G5 towers? Powerbooks?
It would be nice if Apple had at least one option for a really high-res display in their pro laptops, maybe as a BTO option. But general demand (and marketing) may be indicating different. As you said- reading stuff on a small (14-15") 1600x1200 screen is not good on the eyes- it's not for everyone.
OK, back to the subject. When do we get new G5 towers? Powerbooks?
doesnt the current PB G4 17" feature ATI 9600, lst time I looked it did. THey may or maynot update the graphics chip. In the current powerbooks the 9600 is CPU limited anyway so G5 + 9600 would equal much better performance. Thier is a mobile 9700 but I think heat will be an issue.
I think Apple is disregarding their consumers for VT instead. The Xserves must already be available if MacMall is able to sell the VT powermacs.
MacOSRumors is reporting:
We may have to wait until Summer, but Dual Optical G5s are coming. There's no clear word on whether this will be part of the forthcoming PowerMac update or if we will have to wait for the promised summer/autumn (3GHz) revision, but one of the most long-awaited G5 features is said to be addressed in Apple's plans for more evolved PowerMacs.
Either way, by the end of the year, PowerMacs will once again be available with two internal optical drives (Superdrive/Combo or Dual Superdrive) preinstalled as an option, and standard models will have the empty second removable drive bay available for future upgrades.
Leaving the source aside, this wouldn't be earth shattering news since most people have been stating their desire to see dual drives, at least as an option. I don't really care either way -- I have a preference for external CD burners.
I still see this update coming in March -- the most likely dates being the 23rd or the 30th. The 9th would be nice, though.
I haven't heard whether 10.3.3 has been re-seeded. If they finish work on this update soon, then I figure two to three weeks or so after that for the update. But, what do I know, right?
We may have to wait until Summer, but Dual Optical G5s are coming. There's no clear word on whether this will be part of the forthcoming PowerMac update or if we will have to wait for the promised summer/autumn (3GHz) revision, but one of the most long-awaited G5 features is said to be addressed in Apple's plans for more evolved PowerMacs.
Either way, by the end of the year, PowerMacs will once again be available with two internal optical drives (Superdrive/Combo or Dual Superdrive) preinstalled as an option, and standard models will have the empty second removable drive bay available for future upgrades.
Leaving the source aside, this wouldn't be earth shattering news since most people have been stating their desire to see dual drives, at least as an option. I don't really care either way -- I have a preference for external CD burners.
I still see this update coming in March -- the most likely dates being the 23rd or the 30th. The 9th would be nice, though.
I haven't heard whether 10.3.3 has been re-seeded. If they finish work on this update soon, then I figure two to three weeks or so after that for the update. But, what do I know, right?
Originally posted by numediaman
MacOSRumors is reporting:
We may have to wait until Summer, but Dual Optical G5s are coming. There's no clear word on whether this will be part of the forthcoming PowerMac update or if we will have to wait for the promised summer/autumn (3GHz) revision, but one of the most long-awaited G5 features is said to be addressed in Apple's plans for more evolved PowerMacs.
Either way, by the end of the year, PowerMacs will once again be available with two internal optical drives (Superdrive/Combo or Dual Superdrive) preinstalled as an option, and standard models will have the empty second removable drive bay available for future upgrades.
Leaving the source aside, this wouldn't be earth shattering news since most people have been stating their desire to see dual drives, at least as an option. I don't really care either way -- I have a preference for external CD burners.
I still see this update coming in March -- the most likely dates being the 23rd or the 30th. The 9th would be nice, though.
I haven't heard whether 10.3.3 has been re-seeded. If they finish work on this update soon, then I figure two to three weeks or so after that for the update. But, what do I know, right?
Nothing, I hope. Because March is a long time to wait. I don't know where you're getting this march release from. Nobody else is saying that.