iBook G3 900 on 2017?

[KawaiiAurora]

That's true although Roccat is still supported. Yes, the clock is ticking but so far, for me, things are ok - I'll upgrade when I need to.
I'm not a luddite by the way, I just don't spend more than I have to and there's things I'd rather buy than a new Mac that I can get by without.

Ironically, PPC Macs can run newer browsers than early Intel Macs thanks to LWK as it has the same rendering capabilities of Safari 10.1. That being said, FF 52 can be forced to run on ML but Win 7 32bit is much better if you use a 1st/2nd gen Intel Mac and want to use the newest software.

 

[mg1984]

Ironically, PPC Macs can run newer browsers than early Intel Macs thanks to LWK as it has the same rendering capabilities of Safari 10.1. That being said, FF 52 can be forced to run on ML but Win 7 32bit is much better if you use a 1st/2nd gen Intel Mac and want to use the newest software.

I run WaterFox on my Lion based Macs.

 

[KawaiiAurora]

I run WaterFox on my Lion based Macs.

Waterfox 54 worked on ML but I couldn't watch YT videos after opening the application after the first run. FF 52 ESR is the last version that actually works.

 

[weckart]

If you want music on the go I'm sure mp3, aac and aiff will suffice.

There may be other snags. I grabbed a few tracks of my brothers that he shared over our home network; these were bought from iTunes unDRMed. Now, I know the buyer’s details are embedded within the .ma4 files but it takes iTunes on Tiger to demur from playing them because they were bought on another account. Sierra? No problem.

I will need to check whether I have the last version of iTunes Tiger can stand on that particular iMac G4 otherwise Songbird can stay. It has no morals in that regard.

 

[amagichnich]

Not really. Trust me, I've tried. Basically, you can only do things that made sense in say 2004. PowerPoint? Not any file with any sort of multimedia. In fact, one of the reasons I upgraded from it (way back in 2002 actually) in the first place was because PowerPoint and other applications were deathly slow on it.

Movies? 480p MPEG4 maybe but not anything with h.264... which is basically everything these days.

iTunes? Not any recently purchased content, and don't expect to sync your devices with it, unless you just have a 10 year old iPod or something.

For the record, I currently have five PowerPC Macs in my possession, and all are fully functional, so I have a lot experience with them.


Indeed. It can be fun to play with a G3 iBook. But just don't expect to do anything useful with it, unless you have a very specific piece of legacy software you need to run (like OS 9 equipment control software or something).

IMO the minimum Mac one should consider for actual work or even just modern internet access or stuff like that is a Core 2 Duo with El Capitan support. And BTW, in addition to my PowerPC Macs, I have two Intel Macs that cannot run El Capitan. They are not quite as useless as the PowerPC Macs, but are quickly becoming much less useful than before. I just replaced my 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo MacBook4,1 with 10.7.5 Lion with a 2.0 Core 2 Duo MacBook5,1 Unibody Aluminum because 10.7.5 is obsolete. Surfing has become problematic due to site incompatibilities, as all the current versions of the main modern browsers won't run on it. Heck, even the latest version of iTunes won't even run on it, which means my iPhone can't sync with it.

Considering I only paid CAD$180 / US$150 / 125€ for my MacBook5,1, I can't for the life of me imagine why anyone would want to subject themselves to the pain of trying to use a G3 iBook in 2017, or paying 30€ for it, unless it was only for a very specific piece of legacy software, or for a trip down memory lane.

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. Everybody uses his device differently and in this forum is more than one person using a PPC as primary machine, be it work or private/fun. Right now I have only my iBook 12" 1.33 available and it does everything I want it to do. And that is the important thing to never forget: Everyone has different requirements. Ylu might need an Intel with Sierra, I need a G4 > 1Ghz. I have a BlackBook as well and Lion on it, but that is luxury I don't need. Maybe the OP thinks the same. Let it be, don't force him to something he neither wants nor needs!

 

[EugW]

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. Everybody uses his device differently and in this forum is more than one person using a PPC as primary machine, be it work or private/fun. Right now I have only my iBook 12" 1.33 available and it does everything I want it to do. And that is the important thing to never forget: Everyone has different requirements. Ylu might need an Intel with Sierra, I need a G4 > 1Ghz. I have a BlackBook as well and Lion on it, but that is luxury I don't need. Maybe the OP thinks the same. Let it be, don't force him to something he neither wants nor needs!

He was already asking about the Intel models. He asked if the G3 is enough. Well, quite frankly, 99% of the population would think it isn't, and I obviously most definitely don't think it's enough. Maybe he's in that 1%, I dunno, but seriously, let's be practical. That machine came out a decade and a half ago. That's ancient history.

Hell, even you, a PowerPC fan, want at least a G4.

 

[Hrududu]

I'm sorry but you are completely wrong. Everybody uses his device differently and in this forum is more than one person using a PPC as primary machine, be it work or private/fun. Right now I have only my iBook 12" 1.33 available and it does everything I want it to do. And that is the important thing to never forget: Everyone has different requirements. Ylu might need an Intel with Sierra, I need a G4 > 1Ghz. I have a BlackBook as well and Lion on it, but that is luxury I don't need. Maybe the OP thinks the same. Let it be, don't force him to something he neither wants nor needs!

But even a 1.33GHz iBook G4 is in a totally different league than an 800MHz iBook G3. EugW makes very valid points here. Yes, there are those of us who can get by with very old PowerPC systems because we understand our needs, our ability to squeeze every bit of power from them, and in many cases have newer/faster systems close by just in case. I love my PPC systems as much as anybody, but if we're being completely honest here, suggesting somebody try and use a G3 iBook as their go-to laptop for everyday life in 2017 is absolutely ridiculous. I'd never call it useless, but the limitations of the hardware and Tiger are impossible to deny. Can this system be FORCED into doing a few nifty tricks that pass as usable? Sure! Should it be a machine that is relied on to get the job done? NO! If the OP wants to spend the $$ on it as a fun toy/side project, then fine.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Doh..the OP isn't going for a G3 iBook as their go-to laptop for everyday life (instead of better options)...they've come across one available for €30 and ask can it do converted movies, iTunes and Powerpoint - as paying for a G4 or Intel is a stretch at the moment.

 

[mg1984]

Doh..the OP isn't going for a G3 iBook as their go-to laptop for everyday life (instead of better options)...they've come across one available for €30 and ask can it do converted movies, iTunes and Powerpoint - as paying for a G4 or Intel is a stretch at the moment.

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

 

[Dronecatcher]

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

Because the OP said: Do it worth the time? Cheapest G4 portable here is 80 Euros and Intel MacBooks are 110 or more.

I interpreted that as he's not prepared to pay that - if that's not the case, I apologise in advance.

 

[amagichnich]

He was already asking about the Intel models. He asked if the G3 is enough. Well, quite frankly, 99% of the population would think it isn't, and I obviously most definitely don't think it's enough. Maybe he's in that 1%, I dunno, but seriously, let's be practical. That machine came out a decade and a half ago. That's ancient history.

Hell, even you, a PowerPC fan, want at least a G4.

Maybe OP should define how he is going to use the device cause there's a huge difference between everyday usage and side project. You're absolutely right that a G3, no matter how high clocked it may be, can't be a daily driver for 99.9% of the people. But for iTunes? He'll yeah! Speakers are quite good, it is quiet and has an 'ancient' touch, one can't deny the attraction of it. Movies and PowerPoint? I honestly have no experience with that on a G3, my G4s, no matter which one, do the job quite good.
In favor of the G3s I have to tell, that my uncle has a BondiBlue with a virtual Win95 on it to play Civilization II - these things can't be THAT slow

 

[EugW]

Maybe OP should define how he is going to use the device cause there's a huge difference between everyday usage and side project.

Heh. Agreed.

 

[MagicBoy]

They can't run the current versions of modern browsers, specifically Safari, Firefox, or Chrome. This means there are incompatibilities with some websites. Even just checking your banking info online or registering your kid for a sports program can sometimes be a problem with these Macs.

TenFourFox (currently maintained fork of Firefox ESR) does most of the modern web fine, if a little slow. A couple of useful extensions help sort the bloated modern web - see eyoungrens posts elsewhere. I'm happily sat here browsing away on TFF using a PowerBook G4 while chilling with my iTunes library. It's good enough, and the keyboard and soundcard quality are great!

 

[mg1984]

TenFourFox (currently maintained fork of Firefox ESR) does most of the modern web fine, if a little slow. A couple of useful extensions help sort the bloated modern web - see eyoungrens posts elsewhere. I'm happily sat here browsing away on TFF using a PowerBook G4 while chilling with my iTunes library. It's good enough, and the keyboard and soundcard quality are great!

I don't believe EugW's argument is one of can versus cannot but rather should versus should not.

 

[EugW]

Yeah, my wife's kitchen recipe and light surfing computer was an iBook G4 and I ran TenFourFox on it, until about 4-5 years ago when I finally gave up on it and put it in my Mac retirement shelf. I replaced it with a used MacBook4,1 Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz for cheap. I wanted to get her a used MacBook5,1 at the time, but they were a lot more expensive, and I figured I would just give her my MacBookPro5,5 when I upgraded.

Fast forward to 2017 and the MacBook4,1 has been causing us a lot more headaches in terms of website compatibility. I did upgrade to a 2017 Kaby Lake MacBook but given that my 2009 13" MacBookPro5,5 is in basically perfect condition, I didn't want to see it covered in chocolate and cake batter. It'd be better suited for my kids for school I think so I upgraded it to 8 GB and installed High Sierra on it. Runs beautifully, and the auto-play blocking as well as the performance optimizations in Safari 11.0 are excellent. That thing flies (well, not quite, but relatively speaking) for surfing. This version of Safari will also run on El Capitan and Sierra BTW.

I then started scouring the Kijiji ads and came across a used 2008 13" MacBook5,1 for sale for cheap. Knowing that it is fully supported for El Capitan and that it can also get High Sierra with a patched installer, I bought it. High Sierra works great on it despite it having only a 2.0 GHz Core 2 Duo, and it is noticeably faster than the 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo it replaced, despite having a slower clock speed on the same chip architecture. (Both are 45 nm Penryn with 3 MB cache.)

A lot of it has to do with the software optimizations I believe. I was benching Safari, and at least according to JavaScript benchmarks, Safari 11.0 in High Sierra 10.13 runs almost twice as fast as Safari 6.1 in Lion 10.7.5. Firefox is even slower. Furthermore, Safari 6.1 has some compatibility issues. Some sites render funny on Safari 6.1.

Remember, it's not as if I'm recommending 2017 hardware. I'm recommending 8-9 year old hardware here, but hardware that can be used with more modern OS versions. That not only proves compatibility but also improves performance not just related to the CPU, but also through software optimizations over the years. Plus anything on 10.9 or later gets memory compression, so a 10.9 Mac will actually often run significantly faster than a 10.8 Mac. Furthermore, these 2008-2009 Macs have hardware h.264 decode support, so YouTube HD works perfectly, as does Netflix.

It's a world of difference that 100 Euros can make. Just something to consider...

 

[MagicBoy]

I don't believe EugW's argument is one of can versus cannot but rather should versus should not.

I understand that, did read the thread. Saw no mention of TFF is all.
[doublepost=1505944230][/doublepost]

Remember, it's not as if I'm recommending 2017 hardware. I'm recommending 8-9 year old hardware here, but hardware that can be used with more modern OS versions. That not only proves compatibility but also improves performance not just related to the CPU, but also through software optimizations over the years. Plus anything on 10.9 or later gets memory compression, so a 10.9 Mac will actually often run significantly faster than a 10.8 Mac. Furthermore, these 2008-2009 Macs have hardware h.264 decode support, so YouTube HD works perfectly, as does Netflix.

It's a world of difference that 100 Euros can make. Just something to consider...

All good points, and I agree with them. Had an aluminium MacBook back when they were current. Still have a 2009 Mac mini (bought on launch day) which was doing HTPC duties until recently. Still a capable machine once you've fitted an SSD.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Maybe OP should define how he is going to use the device cause there's a huge difference between everyday usage and side project.

Well he did say iTunes, converted movies and Powerpoint. Apart from Powerpoint which I can't comment on, the iBook does the rest ok.
Again, I don't understand the antagonism towards choosing an iBook over a modern laptop. This is a PowerPC forum, unless I'm mistaken, people here enjoy using old computers - they're not just a transparent tool to achieve something, the buzz is actually using a device that has been deemed obsolete.

 

[EugW]

Well he did say iTunes, converted movies and Powerpoint. Apart from Powerpoint which I can't comment on, the iBook does the rest ok.
Again, I don't understand the antagonism towards choosing an iBook over a modern laptop. This is a PowerPC forum, unless I'm mistaken, people here enjoy using old computers - they're not just a transparent tool to achieve something, the buzz is actually using a device that has been deemed obsolete.

As mentioned, iTunes on those Macs can’t sync current iPhones. No iTunes video support either.

 

[MagicBoy]

Any self respecting PowerPC user still has a HDD based iPod.

That said Apple still happily support their obsolete audio devices. Firewire based iPod still syncs with my rMBP, and the TiBook happily does AirPlay to an Apple TV 4.

 

[Dronecatcher]

As mentioned, iTunes on those Macs can’t sync current iPhones. No iTunes video support either.

But the OP hasn't mentioned syncing - no mention of iPhones plus he's said the movies would already be transcoded ie not via iTunes.
I've worked on the information given and the conclusion is, yes a G3 iBook can do that.

 

[mg1984]

Well he did say iTunes, converted movies and Powerpoint. Apart from Powerpoint which I can't comment on, the iBook does the rest ok.
Again, I don't understand the antagonism towards choosing an iBook over a modern laptop. This is a PowerPC forum, unless I'm mistaken, people here enjoy using old computers - they're not just a transparent tool to achieve something, the buzz is actually using a device that has been deemed obsolete.

I do not consider an early model MacBook to be a modern laptop.

 

[Dronecatcher]

I do not consider an early model MacBook to be a modern laptop.

It is next to a G3 iBook when you consider the immense leap in processing power.

 

[AphoticD]

I’m just going to throw this one in the mix because I’m considering buying one out of interest:

PineBook 14” US$99 (plus shipping out of HK)
Quad core 1.2Ghz ARM64
2GB RAM LPDDR3
16GB microSD
802.11n + BT 4.0
Mini-HDMI
5V3A Power (USB)
10000mAh LiPolymer battery
All up, 1.26KG.

It runs Ubuntu Mate 16.04.x (ARM64) and will playback 1080 Youtube in the current build of Firefox for ARM.

Not bad for a sub-$100 laptop. For $10 less you can get an 11” variant.

And it’s non-conformist RISC based, which works for me!

 

[KawaiiAurora]

I’m just going to throw this one in the mix because I’m considering buying one out of interest:

PineBook 14” US$99 (plus shipping out of HK)
Quad core 1.2Ghz ARM64
2GB RAM LPDDR3
16GB microSD
802.11n + BT 4.0
Mini-HDMI
5V3A Power (USB)
10000mAh LiPolymer battery
All up, 1.26KG.

It runs Ubuntu Mate 16.04.x (ARM64) and will playback 1080 Youtube in the current build of Firefox for ARM.

Not bad for a sub-$100 laptop. For $10 less you can get an 11” variant.

And it’s non-conformist RISC based, which works for me!

If you want to mess around with an underpowered laptop with a great battery, looks good. That being said, I'd probably look at Atom x5-Z8500 stuff as it costs only a tad more and gives you much better performance.

Or you could go used... I scored a 14" Dell laptop with a 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM, AMD graphics and an i3-350M @ 2.27GHz for a measly €60!

 

[z970]

IMO the minimum Mac one should consider for actual work or even just modern internet access or stuff like that is a Core 2 Duo with El Capitan support. And BTW, in addition to my PowerPC Macs, I have two Intel Macs that cannot run El Capitan. They are not quite as useless as the PowerPC Macs, but are quickly becoming much less useful than before. I just replaced my 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo MacBook4,1 with 10.7.5 Lion with a 2.0 Core 2 Duo MacBook5,1 Unibody Aluminum because 10.7.5 is obsolete. Surfing has become problematic due to site incompatibilities, as all the current versions of the main modern browsers won't run on it. Heck, even the latest version of iTunes won't even run on it, which means my iPhone can't sync with it.

Slap Ubuntu Mate on those suckers and they'll work like new. From the bit of experience I've gotten with it, there are no rough edges besides drivers, but that's expected and easy to take care of.

You'd be much better off putting that 30 Euros to better use, on an actually functional computer by modern standards. And in Mac-land, that means something less than 10 years old.

Hm... So does that mean a 2006 Mac Pro is non-functional by modern standards because it is 11 years old and just barely misses that mark?