iBook G4 - Won't boot from USB or install Tiger

[ddybing]

Hi!

I just got an iBook G4, the 1.42Ghz mid 2005 version.
From what I can see on EveryMac, it came with 10.4.2, and I would like to reinstall Tiger.

My issue is that the DVD reader does not work properly, so I am kinda tied to either FireWire, installing from a separate partition on the same drive or from USB.

I searched through Macintosh Garden, and I believe I found the correct Restore CD.

I wrote the image to a flash drive, but it does not appear in the boot menu (holding alt when starting up). On my TiBook it shows up, and even boots just fine. I have tried with both the restore CD, as well as a retail 10.4.6 image - none of them show up. The USB drive doesn't even show up in OF (there's no "disk@1" or similar anywhere). The USB ports are not shot, the flash drive shows up and reads just fine when booted into Tiger from the HDD.

I have tried with multiple flash drives, both USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 ones - they all work on the TiBook, but not on my iBook...

I have even tried putting the iBook into Target Disk mode, writing the install image to a separate partition and then booting from that partition. That works, but results in anything from a kernel panic or just a simple "freeze" at the Apple logo.

I may also add that I have tried a Leopard image, same thing - kernel panic. And yes, it was a PowerPC image.

Not really sure what do to here. I would really like to reinstall Tiger on this machine, but it does not seem to like it...

Any suggestions on how to proceed? 🤔

 

[Amethyst1]

I have even tried putting the iBook into Target Disk mode, writing the install image to a separate partition and then booting from that partition.

That should have worked with the retail 10.4.6 (and Leopard) image, and I have used this technique successfully.

That works, but results in anything from a kernel panic or just a simple "freeze" at the Apple logo.
I may also add that I have tried a Leopard image, same thing - kernel panic. And yes, it was a PowerPC image.

Assuming the images aren't corrupted and have been restored successfully, that might point to a hardware problem. Can you take a picture of the panic message?

I searched through Macintosh Garden, and I believe I found the correct Restore CD.

Can you link to the one you used?

 

[ddybing]

Thank you for your swift and helpful reply, Amethyst.

Here is a link to the image I used. I have used the Install Disk 1 image.

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/ibook-g4-142-14-inch-mid-2005-install-and-restore-disks

I'll see if I can grab a picture of the kernel panic/crash.

 

[ddybing]

Okay, so here is a picture of the error that occurs when booting the 10.4.6 retail image from a partition on the hard drive.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Have you tried the booting the Ti-Book in Target Disk Mode with the USB inserted, then starting the iBook and selecting the USB from the boot menu?

 

[ddybing]

Have you tried the booting the Ti-Book in Target Disk Mode with the USB inserted, then starting the iBook and selecting the USB from the boot menu?

Yes, unfortunately it does not appear in the boot menu.

If I enter the boot menu on the TiBook, though, the flash drive appears and it boots just fine.

Now I have also introduced a second iBook G4, an older model that came with Panther.
If I put the iBook G4 1.42Ghz into Target Mode and then try to boot the older iBook G4 from it over FireWire, then the entry does not appear in the boot menu.

I don't understand any of this...

 

[Amethyst1]

Have you tried the booting the Ti-Book in Target Disk Mode with the USB inserted, then starting the iBook and selecting the USB from the boot menu?

Target Disk Mode doesn’t pass through external drives AFAIK.

Okay, so here is a picture of the error that occurs when booting the 10.4.6 retail image from a partition on the hard drive.

The error says the Tiger installer you’re using isn't compatible with your iBook which doesn’t make sense as it’s a retail PPC image. Kernel 8.6.0 and the “RELEASE_PPC” bit confirm it’s a 10.4.6 PPC image, not an Intel one.

My guess would be that either the image itself is corrupted (I think we had that problem with the 10.4.6 image some time ago) or something went wrong when restoring the image to the HDD. It could be a hardware problem but if the machine is currently running Tiger just fine this sounds unlikely.

 

[Amethyst1]

If I put the iBook G4 1.42Ghz into Target Mode and then try to boot the older iBook G4 from it over FireWire, then the entry does not appear in the boot menu.

So you can’t boot the older iBook from the newer iBook’s HDD? That’s strange — it is very unlikely, but if the newer iBook’s HDD were formatted using GPT (rather than APM), the older one definitely wouldn’t be able to boot from it.

 

[ddybing]

So you can’t boot the older iBook from the newer iBook’s HDD? That’s strange — it is very unlikely, but if the newer iBook’s HDD were formatted using GPT (rather than APM), the older one definitely wouldn’t be able to boot from it.

Correct, the HDD of the newer iBooks HDD doesn't show up at all in the boot menu on the old iBook when connected using Firewire and the newer iBook in Target Disk mode.

 

[Amethyst1]

Correct, the HDD of the newer iBooks HDD doesn't show up at all in the boot menu on the old iBook when connected using Firewire and the newer iBook in Target Disk mode.

Does Panther on the ol’ iBook see the newer iBook’s HDD at all?

 

[ddybing]

Does Panther on the ol’ iBook see the newer iBook’s HDD at all?

Yep, Panther on the old iBook can see the HDD of the newer iBook when it is connected in Target Disk Mode.

 

[Amethyst1]

Yep, Panther on the old iBook can see the HDD of the newer iBook when it is connected in Target Disk Mode.

So TDM is working and the newer iBook’s HDD is formatted using APM (i.e. correctly).

 

[cellularmitosis]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but can’t you just run the installer from another machine, using target disk mode?

I did this recently for an iBook which had a flaky CD drive.

 

[ddybing]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but can’t you just run the installer from another machine, using target disk mode?

I did this recently for an iBook which had a flaky CD drive.

That's actually a very good point. I'll give that a go with the 10.4.6 image!

 

[cellularmitosis]

I should also mention that you can sometimes rehabilitate these old optical drives by cleaning and lubricating anything that looks like a linear rail or a gear.

I use alcohol and a q-tip to clean, then use a few drops of “slide oil” (extremely low viscosity oil used for French horns, trumpets, trombones etc) to lubricate. This stuff is handy, buy a bottle from Amazon.

A tip: during reassembly, there was a small metal tab on the shield which was getting in the way and preventing the drive from closing all the way. It turns out it is easy to trim this shield with a pair of common household scissors.

 

[cellularmitosis]

On this particular drive, I also had to access the top side, which ended up being a permanent modification, because I bent the metal shield while removing it. Oh well.

 

[Amethyst1]

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but can’t you just run the installer from another machine, using target disk mode?

Yep.

 

[TheShortTimer]

I have tried with multiple flash drives, both USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 ones - they all work on the TiBook, but not on my iBook...

You're not alone. I also own this iBook and I've never succeeded in getting it to install from USB - OS X doesn't appear in the boot menu but the very same USB installer works with several other PPC Macs. I echo the advice to use Target Disk Mode and FireWire cables as a nice and easy solution.

 

[ddybing]

You're not alone. I also own this iBook and I've never succeeded in getting it to install from USB - OS X doesn't appear in the boot menu but the very same USB installer works with several other PPC Macs. I echo the advice to use Target Disk Mode and FireWire cables as a nice and easy solution.

Thank you! Yeah, the weird thing is that it shows up on my TiBook, but neither of my iBooks will show the USB. Very weird.

Anyways, I was able to reinstall Tiger with the help of the TiBook. Installed to the iBook's hard drive over Firewire, then booted the TiBook from the drive to update Tiger. As the iBook came with 10.4.2, and the install media was Tiger 10.4 I wasn't sure if it was going to work.

After updating to 10.4.11 and installing other updates, I rebooted the iBook and lo and behold - Tiger loaded just as expected Currently in the process of reinstalling the bundled software from the disk image of Installation Disk 2.


Thank you to everyone, and especially cellularmitosis for reminding me of this installation route.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Great news @ddybing - enjoy your iBook!

 

[AphoticD]

Target Disk Mode doesn’t pass through external drives AFAIK.

Just to touch on this point, In my experience, external firewire drives/devices will appear, but not USB.

On another side note, I was tinkering with my PowerBook G4 12” collection a little while back and discovered the 1.33GHz, 1.0GHz and 867MHz models will show the USB drive in the option-key boot picker, but not the 1.5GHz model.

I wonder what the logic behind hiding this feature was? They are all capable of USB boot via OF.

The OP’s iBook being unable to boot from USB at all is a head-scratcher. I had a similar experience recently with a Leopard install USB which I had made for my G5. It worked fine on the G5, but refused to show up in OF on my PBG4 12” units. The issue was it had a GPT partition map which was just user error

Either way, good outcome and enjoy your final rev iBook G4

 

[TheShortTimer]

Just to touch on this point, In my experience, external firewire drives/devices will appear, but not USB.

I've just connected my Mac Pro to my MBP via Target Disk Mode and FireWire 800 and discovered that external HDDs connected to my Mac Pro's eSATA card appear in Finder on the MBP. This was quite unexpected! I'll discuss it more in the early Intel forum.

On another side note, I was tinkering with my PowerBook G4 12” collection a little while back and discovered the 1.33GHz, 1.0GHz and 867MHz models will show the USB drive in the option-key boot picker, but not the 1.5GHz model.

I wonder what the logic behind hiding this feature was? They are all capable of USB boot via OF.

The OP’s iBook being unable to boot from USB at all is a head-scratcher. I had a similar experience recently with a Leopard install USB which I had made for my G5. It worked fine on the G5, but refused to show up in OF on my PBG4 12” units. The issue was it had a GPT partition map which was just user error

Either way, good outcome and enjoy your final rev iBook G4

The entire topic of PPC USB booting is a head-scratcher. My G3's will recognise USB devices and boot from them with Option held down post-chime, whilst several of my G4's will not.

 

[Amethyst1]

I just connected my Mac Pro to my MBP via Target Disk Mode and FireWire 800 and discovered that external HDDs connected to my Mac Pro's eSATA card appear in Finder on the MBP. This was quite unexpected! I'll discuss it more in the early Intel forum.

This is unexpected indeed. But good to know. The big question is now: does the MBP also boot from eSATA drives connected to the MP in TDM?

I’ll do some testing with Thunderbolt TDM.

 

[Amethyst1]

I've now done some quick testing.

Setup: 2012 MBP connected to 2011 MBP via Thunderbolt 1. 2011 MBP connected to 2007 MBP via FireWire 800.

• With the 2011 and the 2007 in TDM, only the 2011's drive appears on the 2012. The 2007's drive does not appear on the 2012.
• With the 2012 and the 2011 in TDM, nothing appears on the 2007. The 2011 only shows a Thunderbolt logo, suggesting Thunderbolt TDM is prioritised over FireWire TDM in this case. I had to disconnect the Thunderbolt cable and reboot the 2011 to get it to enable FireWire TDM again, which made its drive appear on the 2007.

The 2007 has an ExpressCard slot. I wonder if it shares drives connected to an ExpressCard (PCIe) SATA/SAS adapter or an AHCI PCIe SSD via FireWire TDM provided it can boot from them, i.e. the drives are accessible from EFI.

UPDATE: I've just tried this with a Samsung SM951 AHCI PCIe SSD hooked up using an ExpressCard-to-PCIe adapter. With the 2007 in TDM, the SSD did indeed show up on the 2011 via FireWire. However, OS X 10.6.8 frequently beachballed and eventually all TDM drives disappeared. Since then, I can no longer make the 2007 enter TDM with the SSD attached to it: it either hangs at a solid white screen or turns off shortly after powering on. But I've experienced some weird behaviour with the 2007 and the SM951 before so there appears to be some general issue with the two.

But this corroborates @TheShortTimer's experience that Macs can share drives attached to a bootable PCIe (AHCI) controller via TDM.