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iCloud Mail - Does Junk Filtering Work?

dmk1974

dmk1974

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Sep 16, 2008
2,472
527
I am evaluating a switch from Gmail to iCloud Mail. I have a personal domain with e-mail forwarding and for the time being, any e-mail sent to that "xxx@yyyy.com" address has been also received at both my Gmail and iCloud accounts as expected.

I have noticed that while some actual spam e-mails come in still to my Gmail inbox and are automatically placed into the Spam folder (as expected...I usually get 15-20 spam e-mails a day), those same spam/junk e-mails do not get delivered to my iCloud Inbox nor the Junk folder. In fact, there have been no e-mails diverted to the Junk folder. I do have the Junk filtering ON in my Mac Mail settings. I don't see settings in the iCloud webmail app.

Do you all typically get your spam filtered into this Junk folder? Or does iCloud just filter them and never even deliver to your Inbox nor Junk folders? Thanks!
 
dmk1974 said:
Do you all typically get your spam filtered into this Junk folder? Or does iCloud just filter them and never even deliver to your Inbox nor Junk folders? Thanks!
Click to expand...

A little of both. If you get spam on an icloud.com email address you want to forward it as an attachment to Apple at spam@icloud.com . Apple will use that data to fine tune their spam filters. So spam Apple is filtering you will not see.

There is other junk that comes though that either Apple or the Mail app thinks may be spam and that shows up in the Junk folder.
 
Weaselboy said:
There is other junk that comes though that either Apple or the Mail app thinks may be spam and that shows up in the Junk folder.
Click to expand...

That's the thing...not that I am wanting Junk to show up, but if they go to Gmail, then where are they going if not to my iCloud Inbox nor Junk folder? It's like Apple just decides not to even send them to me without the option (maybe a good thing, but I don't want to miss an e-mail that they may deem as junk).
 
dmk1974 said:
That's the thing...not that I am wanting Junk to show up, but if they go to Gmail, then where are they going if not to my iCloud Inbox nor Junk folder? It's like Apple just decides not to even send them to me without the option (maybe a good thing, but I don't want to miss an e-mail that they may deem as junk).
Click to expand...

That is what I believe is happening. I don't think it is particularly aggressive, as I have never once seen anybody complain about missing an email from this. I suspect they only really kill an email if it matches multiple reports as spam.
 
Apple does do some silent filtering behind the scenes to keep some spam out of your inbox/junk mail folders entirely and yes, there are false positives at times. My roommate has reported that he never gets any of my emails from my Gmail account on his iCloud email, and we have confirmed the issue multiple times. A cursory search of the Apple support forums shows that this is not an isolated issue: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3985612?start=0&tstart=0

Here is what Apple has to say (see "Troubleshooting false-positives"): http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4899

Beyond that, on my own iCloud account (used to be a MobileMe account), server side spam filtering doesn't work at all. I currently have 1,600 spam messages that all arrived in my inbox that I had to manually move to spam over the past month (and I forwarded as attachments to spam@me.com as Apple instructs). And they were very clearly spam, with poorly formed subject lines and other telling features. This has been going on for about two years now. I haven't used this address for much of anything due to this issue.
 
How is it possible that positively identified junk mails are still delivered in your inbox but in junk folder? It happens to me every now and then.
I gave them feedback recently, let see.
 
I find the junk feature for my various apple email address to be borderline useless.

I have recently ditched the iPhone for a Galaxy Note 3 and while my email is forwarded on the option now to add either whole addresses or just the domain name to a spam list is superb and works every time.

Hopefully the Apple email application will at sometime in the future have this addition made to it.
 
iCloud mail has been problematic for some time. I wrote about this extensively (also as "impaler") in this thread:

http://forums.imore.com/icloud/272808-icoud-email-calendar-contact-thoughts.html

Some people love that most spam doesn't come to the junk folder; they never see it because Apple's spam filters are aggressive. Personally, I like to decide on what is spam, and let me see them all. This is where simplicity tends to trump functionality. Apple needs to drastically improve the reliability of mail. Maybe they have - but they've been silent on it. Which is what you'd expect.

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AzureCloud said:
on my own iCloud account (used to be a MobileMe account), server side spam filtering doesn't work at all. I currently have 1,600 spam messages that all arrived in my inbox that I had to manually move to spam over the past month (and I forwarded as attachments to spam@me.com as Apple instructs). And they were very clearly spam, with poorly formed subject lines and other telling features. This has been going on for about two years now. I haven't used this address for much of anything due to this issue.
Click to expand...

Per the below article, you can also just move messages to the Junk folder and they'll also get reported as spam:

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS4019
 
Weaselboy said:
That only works if you are reading mail at iCloud.com. The iOS and OS X Mail clients do not do that.
Click to expand...

mmm...that doesn't sound right to me. If the email is moved to Junk, whether on icloud.com, or Mail.app, it's still sitting in the same location...and would presumably cause the same action. The emailing of a message is just another way to manually report spam.
 
impaler said:
mmm...that doesn't sound right to me. If the email is moved to Junk, whether on icloud.com, or Mail.app, it's still sitting in the same location...and would presumably cause the same action. The emailing of a message is just another way to manually report spam.
Click to expand...

It is right. That is what it says at the article you linked. Note it only says it is auto reported in the iCloud.com bullet point.

lIgU7Nm.png
 
impaler said:
That's not what Apple support has told me on numerous occasions. I don't believe that's correct.
Click to expand...

Well that may be, but I'm going to believe the official Apple document on the subject over some tech on the phone. I gotta think if this works in the client apps this site would say so.
 
Weaselboy said:
Well that may be, but I'm going to believe the official Apple document on the subject over some tech on the phone. I gotta think if this works in the client apps this site would say so.
Click to expand...

Okay, different strokes and all.

Apple's documentation is known to be incomplete and outdated at times, updated when they get around to it. For me, I've actually shown it works by dragging it to the folder. I used to get this regular spam message and after a few times dragging it to the folder, they began to be sent there automatically. I won't be bothered emailing it off, and it did work.
 
impaler said:
Apple's documentation is known to be incomplete and outdated at times, updated when they get around to it. For me, I've actually shown it works by dragging it to the folder. I used to get this regular spam message and after a few times dragging it to the folder, they began to be sent there automatically. I won't be bothered emailing it off, and it did work.
Click to expand...

If Apple had flagged it as spam like they do from forwarding it to them or dragging to junk on iCloud.com, you would have stopped getting the messages altogether.
 
Weaselboy said:
If Apple had flagged it as spam like they do from forwarding it to them or dragging to junk on iCloud.com, you would have stopped getting the messages altogether.
Click to expand...

No, not necessarily immediately. The way spam filtering works is based on various internal algorithms, configured by Apple, and is determined by more than just one person or one marking of a message.

I stand by my view that whether you forward it to the spam@icloud.com email or you move to the Junk folder, the system logs them both as spam.
 
impaler said:
No, not necessarily immediately. The way spam filtering works is based on various internal algorithms, configured by Apple, and is determined by more than just one person or one marking of a message.
Click to expand...

I don't think you are following my point. I understand how spam filtering works. When Apple sees enough reports of the same message it gets flagged as spam and they stop it on their end, they do send it to you for diversion to your junk folder. They stop it altogether. So my point is the fact those messages started going to your junk folder does not show that Apple flagged them as spam.

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impaler said:
Apple's documentation is known to be incomplete and outdated at times, updated when they get around to it.
Click to expand...

Also... from the bottom of the page you linked. So it is current.

VAfdlVT.png
 
Weaselboy said:
I don't think you are following my point. I understand how spam filtering works. When Apple sees enough reports of the same message it gets flagged as spam and they stop it on their end, they do send it to you for diversion to your junk folder. They stop it altogether. So my point is the fact those messages started going to your junk folder does not show that Apple flagged them as spam.

----------



Also... from the bottom of the page you linked. So it is current.

Image
Click to expand...

I am following your point. I also know how spam filtering works. I've seen where they don't always send it to the junk folder when I never marked them as spam - at times it's just completely deleted from their servers and I never see it. I disagree with your point though; if they go to the junk folder, it's because iCloud's servers see it as spam due to its spam score, and other algorithms. That's how I see it. Silent email filtering makes iCloud mail unreliable for some.

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Weaselboy said:
from the bottom of the page you linked. So it is current.

Image
Click to expand...

December is current? Not necessarily. That's going on three months old. Apple often changes things we don't know about - and I have, from personal experience, been able to duplicate the junk flagging behavior I've described. I wish for more transparency as to what they're up to.
 
Weaselboy said:
A little of both. If you get spam on an icloud.com email address you want to forward it as an attachment to Apple at spam@icloud.com . Apple will use that data to fine tune their spam filters. So spam Apple is filtering you will not see.

There is other junk that comes though that either Apple or the Mail app thinks may be spam and that shows up in the Junk folder.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the resurrection of this old thread, but the more email I forward to spam@icloud.com, the more spam and junk email I seem to be getting.

I have rules, which would be great if they propagated between my Apple devices, which forward junk to the spam address, and move the messages, but where I'd have 40 or 50 messages in the Junk folder, I now routinely have well over 100 with it currently being over 300 now!

So what gives?

And regarding the rule propagation, after I turned my iPhone on after returning from a trip, I had over 10 messages that sat there until I logged in to my MacBook and its rules cleaned them out...

Spam handling HAS TO GET BETTER soon...
 
Weaselboy said:
That is odd. I have not found that to be the case.
Click to expand...

It's just my impression after doing that for a while, and seeing the amount of 'crap' I am getting.

I once spent a week reporting all of my junk emails on Hotmail, and started getting just bombarded with tons of crap. TONS! As far as I can tell, and it doesn't make any sense but apparently when Hotmail reported those email domains as 'junk', somehow my address must have been attached to them. I tried that early last month with the Viagra/Cialis junk mail as an experiment, and got a very noticeable uptick in the amount of Viagra/Cialis junk emails. Like some days 7 to 10 a day. It finally died down, but I do still get two or three a day. It seems to hardly be worth it to report the junk...

In iCloud, I have to watch the junk mail folder for emails that I send myself, as apparently I am a huge source of junk mail...:rolleyes:o_O One whole week, every email went into the junk folder.
 
Few months ago I switched over my email to icloud, now I have regrets. It gets so much spam everyday, I keep moving it to junk folders as icloud help section says, but it keeps coming day after day and week after week. I love apple but I'm hating it a bit right now.
 
dmk1974 said:
I am evaluating a switch from Gmail to iCloud Mail. I have a personal domain with e-mail forwarding and for the time being, any e-mail sent to that "xxx@yyyy.com" address has been also received at both my Gmail and iCloud accounts as expected.

I have noticed that while some actual spam e-mails come in still to my Gmail inbox and are automatically placed into the Spam folder (as expected...I usually get 15-20 spam e-mails a day), those same spam/junk e-mails do not get delivered to my iCloud Inbox nor the Junk folder. In fact, there have been no e-mails diverted to the Junk folder. I do have the Junk filtering ON in my Mac Mail settings. I don't see settings in the iCloud webmail app.

Do you all typically get your spam filtered into this Junk folder? Or does iCloud just filter them and never even deliver to your Inbox nor Junk folders? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Actually Gmail beats junk most..... I have never used iCloud mail, but i would guess the filtering is just the same kind of one used by ISP's

Collaborate filtering all the way :D

You should try marking them as "Not spam" that will help it.. Since i always have "Spam" hid from IMAP clients,, and u can hide labels from Gmail web GUI itself so u don't see any..

Kind of a good combination. I'm amazed that Apple can';t do the same type of Apple collaborate filtering between its users, the same as Google can on a more broader level.

And instead, Apple chose the option of asking users to report spam via a manual email address based method... Which i guess can only get over-loaded.
 
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