I'd like to praise Apple for switching to all USB-C

[turbineseaplane]

So in retrospective do you think it was a wrong decision to make a laptop without a floppy drive? Or the one without COM/LPT ports? Or the one without optical drive? This is quite similar.

I don't actually find those as similar personally.

From my personal memory, those were all far less disruptive to my workflows at the time. It was so long ago it's hard to really think about and compare honestly.

The point remains - the USB-C "future" could have been enjoyed equally well with just adding one or two of those to an existing port lineup. Nothing necessatied the inconvenience of "only" USB-C for all laptop models (this last part is a big part of the issue). That was also 3 years ago and it's still a pain for many of us. It was definitely too early in 2016. I'd probably be more ok with it now - vs then for sure.

Thin/lightweight/amazing machines (with better keyboards) exist right now on the PC side. Apple didn't "need" to go USB-C only to make something light/thin/sexy - that's just what all USB-C fans hold up as "why" - and it's not true.

 

[ReanimationLP]

Could've left the SD (which is in no way replicated in functionality by USB C) and arguably USB A is still ubiquitous enough it's questionable whether completely removing it (as opposed to leaving one for convenience) was actually a decent usability choice. Depending on where they go with future models, USB C with it's 100W power delivery limit might not be enough if they want to start shipping a computer with a more competent graphics card. A lot of Windows machines give the option of charging via a 120W+ barrel or proprietary port, plus topping up on the go via USB C.

I'm always confused people state USB-C is 100w maximum when Dell's XPS 15 9575 2-in-1 only has USB-C and comes with a 130w USB-C charger.

 

[Stephen.R]

Adding a USB-C to an existing lineup of useful other ports would have giving you guys all the benefits of USB-C approach while still retaining compatibility for those of us that want it.

There is zero chance they were going to put 4xTB3 + 2xUSB3 + HDMI + SD on a MBP. So what you’re saying is, **** the professionals who have a use for multiple high speed I/O ports, I want somewhere to plug in my 8 year old printer and refuse to buy a $20 hub with more “single use” ports than the pre-TB3 MBP had.

 

[turbineseaplane]

There is zero chance they were going to put 4xTB3

Did I say four?
I agree. Four would be too many, especially in light of the other ports that would be included.

By 2019/2020 I think all USB-C is finally becoming more sensible, but definitely not way back in 2016 models.

 

[Stephen.R]

The point remains - the USB-C "future" could have been enjoyed equally well with just adding one or two of those to an existing port lineup.

Right. I keep forgetting all those eGPUs and storage arrays that plug into an SD card slot. And of course we all know you can run a 4K display from a USB-A port, right?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Right. I keep forgetting all those eGPUs and storage arrays that plug into an SD card slot. And of course we all know you can run a 4K display from a USB-A port, right?

You should really read your tone.
It’s really unattractive to be so sarcastic, aggressive and cynical.

I’m done talking with you if you’re going to be like this.

 

[Stephen.R]

It’s really unattractive to be so sarcastic, aggressive and cynical.

Apple gives us 160Gb/s of industry standard external I/O, you’re complaining they took out an SD card and some USB-a ports and you’re calling me cynical?

I’m sarcastic, definitely. Because suggesting that a MacBookPro has “too much” fast I/O is the epitome of ridiculousness. Next you’ll tell me you wanted a usb2.0 port and a vga d-sub port too.

 

[Howard2k]

I cannot for the life of me understand why they did away with the MagSafe design. Do you realize how many times this saved my ass?!?!?

It’s never been any benefit to me at all, and although I haven’t checked how much a replacement charger is I’m guessing it’s more expensive than a USB-C option would be.

 

[Hieveryone]

I respectfully disagree.

We need USB-A and the magesafe back.

USB-C adds no benefit to me that I am aware of except that I've got four ports to charge my laptop lol

Also, where is the SD card slot?

 

[chikorita157]

I respectfully disagree.

We need USB-A and the magesafe back.

USB-C adds no benefit to me that I am aware of except that I've got four ports to charge my laptop lol

Also, where is the SD card slot?

I disagree. If we go back to all USB-A, we will lose all the benefits of USB-C. Sure, the loss of magsafe is a downside, but USB-C allows more versatility by being able to charge from any USB-C port and external batter banks. Also, Thunderbolt 3 docks can restore all the legacy ports, ethernet and SD reader and serve as a docking station. Also, those USB-C dongles reduces the need to have the actual ports since it usually contains all the USB-A, Ethernet, HDMI, etc. Also, more devices are now using USB-C such as hard drives, cameras, smartphones, etc and you can replace the cords (e.g. USB Type B to USB-C) if you really wanted.

USB-A needs to go away so we can progress. Also, external SD readers are better since they provide the latest standards and transfer speeds. Internal SD card readers while convenient have issues showing up on the desktop, even on my 2012 Macbook Pro and sometimes require reinserting or restarting the computer.

 

[Hieveryone]

I disagree. If we go back to all USB-A, we will lose all the benefits of USB-C. Sure, the loss of magsafe is a downside, but USB-C allows more versatility by being able to charge from any USB-C port and external batter banks. Also, Thunderbolt 3 docks can restore all the legacy ports, ethernet and SD reader and serve as a docking station. Also, those USB-C dongles reduces the need to have the actual ports since it usually contains all the USB-A, Ethernet, HDMI, etc. Also, more devices are now using USB-C such as hard drives, cameras, smartphones, etc and you can replace the cords (e.g. USB Type B to USB-C) if you really wanted.

USB-A needs to go away so we can progress. Also, external SD readers are better since they provide the latest standards and transfer speeds. Internal SD card readers while convenient have issues showing up on the desktop, even on my 2012 Macbook Pro and sometimes require reinserting or restarting the computer.

How am I benefiting from USB-C? I've noticed no difference...

 

[Robnsn2015]

Apple could have included one USB-A with their USB-C ports, especially with the 15-inch MacBook Pro. It didn't have to be an "either/or" thing. Also, they could have included a USB-A dongle in the box.

 

[QCassidy352]

Just curious: for those of you who are defending all usb-c -- I assume you'd applaud Apple for doing away with the other ports that they still offer on of all their desktops? Or is there some reason you think laptop users but not desktop users live in a parallel universe where 90% of the world isn't still usb-a?

 

[Robnsn2015]

Just curious: for those of you who are defending all usb-c -- I assume you'd applaud Apple for doing away with the other ports that they still offer on of all their desktops? Or is there some reason you think laptop users but not desktop users live in a parallel universe where 90% of the world isn't still usb-a?

I guess they're living in a world where everything is in the cloud and they've never had a client hand them a thumb drive that requires USB-A.

 

[QCassidy352]

I guess they're living in a world where everything is in the cloud and they've never had a client hand them a thumb drive that requires USB-A.

Could be. I like the cloud, too. I use dropbox, OneDrive, and iCloud Drive all on a daily basis. Great services, all. None are anywhere close to a replacement for a high-capacity usb drive, which I also use on a daily basis.

 

[Thysanoptera]

Apple gives us 160Gb/s of industry standard external I/O, you’re complaining they took out an SD card and some USB-a ports and you’re calling me cynical?

It is 80 total. Two TB3 controllers, 4 ports. Each side shares the bandwidth between two ports.

 

[LogicalApex]

Just curious: for those of you who are defending all usb-c -- I assume you'd applaud Apple for doing away with the other ports that they still offer on of all their desktops? Or is there some reason you think laptop users but not desktop users live in a parallel universe where 90% of the world isn't still usb-a?

The way I see it, Apple went all TB3 on the MBP to offer mobile professionals a no compromise option. For mobile users you're usually forced to choose between a fair number of tradeoffs when going mobile. The MBP still has tradeoffs, but with TB3 mobile users are able to connect to eGPUs, external RAID arrays, 10GbE, and a host of other high bandwidth I/O without sacrificing bandwidth to pull it off.

Is every user going to need the full I/O bandwidth of TB3 across multiple ports? Likely not, but for those who need access to legacy ports you can get the same amount of "legacy" ports in one dongle or you can use stuff like a single USB A to C cable to translate.

I think they made the right choice and I really look forward to more TB3 accessories coming later this year and next now that TB3 is USB4. I very much look forward to the day when I can have 1 or 2 USB cables and I can toss out the rest. No need to have USB A, B, Micro, Mini...

 

[Robnsn2015]

The way I see it, Apple went all TB3 on the MBP to offer mobile professionals a no compromise option. For mobile users you're usually forced to choose between a fair number of tradeoffs when going mobile. The MBP still has tradeoffs, but with TB3 mobile users are able to connect to eGPUs, external RAID arrays, 10GbE, and a host of other high bandwidth I/O without sacrificing bandwidth to pull it off.

Is every user going to need the full I/O bandwidth of TB3 across multiple ports? Likely not, but for those who need access to legacy ports you can get the same amount of "legacy" ports in one dongle or you can use stuff like a single USB A to C cable to translate.

I think they made the right choice and I really look forward to more TB3 accessories coming later this year and next now that TB3 is USB4. I very much look forward to the day when I can have 1 or 2 USB cables and I can toss out the rest. No need to have USB A, B, Micro, Mini...

But it is a compromise. Apple could have had both Thunderbolt 3 and USB-A like other OEMs. Instead, you’re forced to use only TB3 and Apple didn’t even include the dongle.

 

[537635]

But it is a compromise. Apple could have had both Thunderbolt 3 and USB-A like other OEMs. Instead, you’re forced to use only TB3 and Apple didn’t even include the dongle.

This is simply something, where we won't come to an agreement.

You do have to realise though that keeping legacy ports means being careful and conservative. And it is by definition a compromise. Going all-in into the future with USB-C is not.


Again, it might have been a mistake. Some users are clearly angry, because it distrupts their workflow with an additional adapter. But some are not and we're enjoing the benefits of quad TB3 ports.

 

[Stephen.R]

Just curious: for those of you who are defending all usb-c -- I assume you'd applaud Apple for doing away with the other ports that they still offer on of all their desktops? Or is there some reason you think laptop users but not desktop users live in a parallel universe where 90% of the world isn't still usb-a?

I’d be happy to see them drop all the USB/hdmi/etc ports and go pure TB3.

 

[LogicalApex]

But it is a compromise. Apple could have had both Thunderbolt 3 and USB-A like other OEMs. Instead, you’re forced to use only TB3 and Apple didn’t even include the dongle.

Sure, but the dongle thing is extremely minor...

You could cite the cost of the dongle, but they are as low as $5 and with the cost of the MBP dongle cost isn't a serious factor. They also can be super small and don't take up any room.

Honestly, TB 3 flexibility is great as you can get the ports you need and not be saddled with a bunch of ports that are trying to compromise for everyone and may have some of what you need, but not everything or not enough.

Do you need Ethernet, like I do? Well you can have that.
Do you need USB A? Sure, you can have that too.
Do you need HDMI, Display Port, and VGA? You can have that too.
Do you need 3 HDMI ports? You can have that too.
Do you need a really fast UHS-II or III SD Card Reader? You can have that too.

Obviously, you see where I'm going here. The USB-C/TB3 devices you add to your workflow are also able to be used with your other USB-C/TB 3 devices (including future upgrades). And you're not losing I/O bandwidth dedicated to a fixed SD card slot or Display Port or other I/O you're not using at that moment or may not need at all.

Intel created TB3 (originally called Lightpeak) with the intention to replace all external I/O on a computer. Apple listened to the way Intel envisioned this. The delay in its coming to fruition is Intel licensing cost that are finally evaporating in USB4 later this year.

But all TB3 ports is actually one of my favorite MBP features.

 

[Stephen.R]

How am I benefiting from USB-C? I've noticed no difference...

Not everything is about you personally.

Apple chose an option where you personally may need to use a different USB cable or a hub/breakout box to get the single-use ports back (HDMI, USB-A, Card Reader).

By doing so they also gave myself and @LogicalApex the option of having extremely fast external SSDs, or multiple 4K displays, or 10GbEth, or an eGPU, or any number of other external devices, and we can generally have all of them at the same time too, if required.

If you just need to plug in a device with a USB-A cable, then you personally aren't benefitting from it right now. But you're very slightly inconvenienced, to allow others to very greatly benefit, and if you keep your laptop for a while, you may just be glad of those ports. The only saving grace allowing reasonable use nowadays on my 2011 MBP (retired to iTunes use) is a Thunderbolt1 breakout box with eSATA and faster USB on it.

 

[Grey Area]

I'm always confused people state USB-C is 100w maximum when Dell's XPS 15 9575 2-in-1 only has USB-C and comes with a 130w USB-C charger.

That Dell combination uses a proprietary spec to make it work. Arguably, in a strict sense neither the 9575 nor its charger use "real" USB. Only a select few Dell machines are able to get more than 100W out of that charger. Plugging it into a device not on the compatibility list is a bit adventurous (though a properly implemented device should not negotiate for more power than it can handle).

 

[Stephen.R]

537635

But it is a compromise. Apple could have had both Thunderbolt 3 and USB-A like other OEMs. Instead, you’re forced to use only TB3 and Apple didn’t even include the dongle.

You're using compromise in the sense of "this item is compromised", but @LogicalApex is using it as in "we found some middle ground and came to a compromise".

If you truly believe that the lack of single-use ports compromises (as in makes worse or breaks, not as in finding middle ground) the usability of the MBP, then I agree with @537635, I will never agree with your point of view.

 

[Hieveryone]

Not everything is about you personally.

Apple chose an option where you personally may need to use a different USB cable or a hub/breakout box to get the single-use ports back (HDMI, USB-A, Card Reader).

By doing so they also gave myself and @LogicalApex the option of having extremely fast external SSDs, or multiple 4K displays, or 10GbEth, or an eGPU, or any number of other external devices, and we can generally have all of them at the same time too, if required.

If you just need to plug in a device with a USB-A cable, then you personally aren't benefitting from it right now. But you're very slightly inconvenienced, to allow others to very greatly benefit, and if you keep your laptop for a while, you may just be glad of those ports. The only saving grace allowing reasonable use nowadays on my 2011 MBP (retired to iTunes use) is a Thunderbolt1 breakout box with eSATA and faster USB on it.

Fair enough. I actually like using a one those dongles with like 4 USB A ports. It’s like connecting four devices at one go!

For example, my scanner, my printer, my external SSD is all connected to this one dongle which has 1 usbc that connects to 1 port on my MacBook Pro. Really conevenitn.