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iDVD and choppy video in the final product

No worries, Stormybot, I know you'd already gone though all the steps, I was just doing the same to be sure all my paths were covered... :p

I was only hoping for a deus-ex-machina post from someone, saying "I got it, the solution is only to change the [bleep bleep bleep] setting in iMovie/iDVD...".
But no, no such luck :eek:

I'm glad you could find a way to bypass your issues !

And indeed, the issue is not only your machine, but many other users have mentioned it. Maybe a correction in a future version? I still think it's something wrong about the fps at a stage...
 
Same problem: what I've found...

I record in EyeTV using standard DVD-quality MPEG-2 compression: 1.8Gb/Hr, 720x480, 29.97fps, etc.

If I watch that in EyeTV it looks great.

I export that as DV (approx 12Gb/Hr, 720x480, 29.97fps), so I can edit the adverts and add chapter markers in iMovie. The .DV file that EyeTV creates looks fine in QT, full-screen: good resolution, smooth video.

I import that into iMovie and edit. The imported video looks just as good (and if I extract the iMovie DV file from the iMovie project package, it looks great in QT).

I burn the movie to a disk image with iDVD. When I watch the VIDEO_TS folder using DVD Player on my computer, it looks pretty good. I can see some interlacing (fine horiz lines in the image), but the video looks smooth.

If I burn that disk image to a real DVD and watch it in my newer, progressive scan DVD player and LCD TV, it looks terrible. Any fast motion has terrible artefacts and looks really choppy. It bugs my eyes so much it's essentially unwatchable. I don't have this problem at all with commercial DVDs.

I just tried turning off the 'progressive scan' feature on my DVD player -- no help.

Then I tried pausing the video on my DVD player, and using the 'step' button to step through the video. I noticed something interesting: I would get 3 steps in a row that were fine, but the 4th and 5th steps flickered, as though they jumped forward then slipped back quickly. It would repeat this cycle of 3 ok steps and 2 flickery steps consistently. Don't know what that means, though.
 
I think I may have found a solution

I've been reading some other material on this issue (seems a lot of people have it), including the Apple Forum link elsewhere in this thread. I'm going to try extracting the MPEG-2 file from the EyeTV archive and converting it using StreamClip (have to buy the QT MPEG-2 component first). This sounds promising. I'll post back after I try it.
 
sandman42 said:
I record in EyeTV using standard DVD-quality MPEG-2 compression: 1.8Gb/Hr, 720x480, 29.97fps, etc....
Click to expand...

Welcome to the club, I think we're all talking about the same problem here...

Any solution is welcome, although I'd like it to be as simple as should the "digital hub" be, esp. when considering the use of iLife.

One comment though about your use of EyeTV: there's a good option for editing and removing the ads inside of EyeTV, which would keep the mpeg-2 compression, you're aware about that? I don't think you can add chapters though.
 
Arnaud said:
Welcome to the club, I think we're all talking about the same problem here...
Click to expand...

Thanks! Sorry, uh, to have to be here, but I'm glad I have company...

Arnaud said:
Any solution is welcome, although I'd like it to be as simple as should the "digital hub" be, esp. when considering the use of iLife.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. I want something that is consistent with my expectation about my Apple experience: things just work.

Arnaud said:
One comment though about your use of EyeTV: there's a good option for editing and removing the ads inside of EyeTV, which would keep the mpeg-2 compression, you're aware about that? I don't think you can add chapters though.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have used the EyeTV editor a lot, but have lately been preferring using iMovie because: to my knowledge you can't add chapter markers as you can in iMovie (which is important to me), and because you have much more control with iMovie, as you can edit down to the frame (EyeTV's editor is somewhat coarser).
 
lorductape said:
just switch to dvd studio pro
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm interested. What are the advantages of DVD Studio Pro? Will it accept my existing MPEG-2 stream without re-encoding? That would be really nice.

Hrm, I don't see DVD Studio Pro at the Apple store. Regardless, I think it's probably way more expensive than I want to spend for what I'm doing, and I wonder if it'll even run on my hardware.

I just wish there was some way I could get the nice quality MPEG-2 that EyeTV produces into iDVD without a bunch of quality loss or other weirdness. That just doesn't seem like so much to ask.
 
lorductape said:
just switch to dvd studio pro
Click to expand...

Uh, not exactly an answer to our problem.

DVD Studio Pro is a part of the $1299 Final Cut Studio package. Should that really be the only option for a simple mpeg2-to-dvd option ??? Then I wonder what is the point of iDVD at all. :rolleyes:
 
Arnaud said:
Uh, not exactly an answer to our problem.

DVD Studio Pro is a part of the $1299 Final Cut Studio package. Should that really be the only option for a simple mpeg2-to-dvd option ??? Then I wonder what is the point of iDVD at all. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Hey Arnaud, I am still using my Canopus ADVC110 and it has been working great. Especially for pulling video from my DVR (for the user trying to do that). At about $200, it was well worth the money. I agree that paying $1300 to get your hands on DVD Studio Pro is not the best solution. And while mine was not cheap, I am just happy to finally have a solution that works. I figure it had to be something with the way the video was encoded in the first place. The fact that Toast could produce video that was perfect quality makes me think that Toast simply has a way to get around this problem and iDVD does not.

But using my DVR > Canopus ADVC110 > iMovie > iDVD > Burned DVD solution works great.

My DVR > DVD+RW > Ripped DV video > iMovie > iDVD > Burned DVD solution did the same thing you are talking about.

BTW, for those wondering why I would burn to a DVD+RW and just to go through all the steps to burn to another DVD, I wanted to put longer video on a DVD-R DL. So it would be about 2 DVD's worth of video.

Plus, my working solutions saves me sooooo much time now. I check this thread every now and then to see if anyone came up with a real solution though. Just curiosity at this point.
 
I have edited many things in iMovie and I have never had this problem when burning a Dvd with iDVD with the what I have done. If it's only imported footage from an external device then I guess you have figured it is most likely the way iMovie encodes dv. I generally edit appropriated footage (stuff that's been outputted already such as a dvd, mov etc.) and it looks fine. I'm not sure but it doesn't look like you have tried exporting as a different file first before hitting iDVD.

If you were to export as a .mov and then drag and drop that .mov into iDVD you shouldn't encounter any problems with ghosting, flickering etc. If you don't want to compress your movie then you can try exporting as Full Quality first to your desktop then drop the .dv file into iDVD. That might not work as the issue might be with iDVD being unable to properly execute .dv files. If you aren't blowing up the screen really large or you aren't so picky about some quality loss from compression then try making .movs and then putting them into iDVD.
 
sandman42 said:
I've been reading some other material on this issue (seems a lot of people have it), including the Apple Forum link elsewhere in this thread. I'm going to try extracting the MPEG-2 file from the EyeTV archive and converting it using StreamClip (have to buy the QT MPEG-2 component first). This sounds promising. I'll post back after I try it.
Click to expand...

This software solution totally works!

Here's my project: I have about 40 DVDs of company projects we've done in the past. We wanted a highlight DVD reel made of selected segments, so I ripped the DVDs on my iBook G4 and saved them as DV files. Used Final Cut Pro to cut them up, saved again as DV files. Imported them into iMovie, made my chapter markers, imported that into iDVD, and I would get terrible flicker on motion graphics or anybody moving across the screen.

Passing the edited segment DV file into MPEG Streamclip, here's the settings I chose to get the best results:

- Export to Quicktime
- Compression: Apple MPEG4 Compressor
- Quality: 100%
- Frame Rate: 29.97
- Frame Size: 720x480 (DV-NTSC)
- Selected Frame Blending, Better Downscaling, and Deinterlace Video

Presto! "Make Movie!"
 
TastyCakes said:
I have edited many things in iMovie and I have never had this problem when burning a Dvd with iDVD with the what I have done. If it's only imported footage from an external device then I guess you have figured it is most likely the way iMovie encodes dv. I generally edit appropriated footage (stuff that's been outputted already such as a dvd, mov etc.) and it looks fine. I'm not sure but it doesn't look like you have tried exporting as a different file first before hitting iDVD.

If you were to export as a .mov and then drag and drop that .mov into iDVD you shouldn't encounter any problems with ghosting, flickering etc. If you don't want to compress your movie then you can try exporting as Full Quality first to your desktop then drop the .dv file into iDVD. That might not work as the issue might be with iDVD being unable to properly execute .dv files. If you aren't blowing up the screen really large or you aren't so picky about some quality loss from compression then try making .movs and then putting them into iDVD.
Click to expand...

Not sure who you're responding to, but with all due respect I don't think the problem is as simple as you make it out to be. I've tried many export/import methods, and specifically when I export from EyeTV as DV (full quality), then import that into iMovie for editing, then pass that to iDVD the results are terrible. There is something that happens with DV from certain sources (I keep reading about 'field dominance', but I don't really know what that is), that causes this problem; other people claim that it doesn't happen when using DV from other sources, such as specific brands of DV camcorders.

Lately I've been exporting the raw MPEG-2 program stream from EyeTV (so no transcoding), then re-coding that to DV using Streamclip, then editing the DV with iMovie and making my DVDs with iDVD. This seems to produce good results.
 
sandman42 said:
Not sure who you're responding to, but with all due respect I don't think the problem is as simple as you make it out to be. I've tried many export/import methods, and specifically when I export from EyeTV as DV (full quality), then import that into iMovie for editing, then pass that to iDVD the results are terrible. There is something that happens with DV from certain sources (I keep reading about 'field dominance', but I don't really know what that is), that causes this problem; other people claim that it doesn't happen when using DV from other sources, such as specific brands of DV camcorders.

Lately I've been exporting the raw MPEG-2 program stream from EyeTV (so no transcoding), then re-coding that to DV using Streamclip, then editing the DV with iMovie and making my DVDs with iDVD. This seems to produce good results.
Click to expand...

Well, here we are in January 2007 and the crux of this thread -- "how do we mere mortals with reasonable expectations of iDVD's wonderful features MAKE IT WORK?" is still unanswered. Search my entries on this subject for the past few days, posted in various forums, you'll see. Arnaud, et al., did you ever come up with a solution? Hoping.....
 
Just to throw another voice in the ring...

I have used a Canopus ADVC-55 for all my iMovie/iDVD projects so far and have avoided the problems being talked about here. It's a little cheaper than the ADVC-110, for those looking to take the DV bridge out of town...

That said, I think iDVD 6 is a messed up piece of software. Though I've not had the specific fast-motion problem here, I have had problems with GUI refresh rates (0.5 fps when working with a normal 1.5 hour project), and having the 'encoding audio' stage take forever. iDVD also has for me tended to ignore user specifications for the length of motion menus, defaulting each menu to 15 minutes in length (or the length of the menu song, or just a random portion of the song). DVD menu navigation has also been messed up. Not to get off on a tangent here, but I just think that the specific issues reported in this thread are part of much larger quality control problems for the app.

It makes me want to upgrade to iDVD '07.... but then I wonder if we'll just get more of the same...
 
I saw someone earlier mentioned field dominance... this very well may be what's at play here. Here is an excerpt from the Final Cut Express manual on field dominance (the whole section can be read on page 1153). Apparently one can change the field dominance using MPEGstreamclip... I've not done this myself, but for those still reeling from this problem, it may be worth a shot:
Field dominance is an issue when recording and playing back interlaced video material. With progressive video, there is only one way to play back a video frame: Start at line 1 and scan until you reach the last line. With interlaced video, the video player must choose whether to scan the odd lines first, or the even lines. In other words, each time a frame is displayed, which field should be played first, field 1 or 2? This is totally dependent on which field was recorded first.

Each field is a snapshot in time, so if field 1 is recorded earlier in time than field 2, field 1 must be played back before field 2. If the wrong field order is chosen, each frame’s fields plays backward in time, even though each frame as a whole still moves forward. The effect is a very noticeable stutter happening 60 (NTSC) or 50 (PAL) times a second. Each piece of video equipment and each video format has a preferred field dominance. This prevents you from editing two field 2s back to back, and makes sure that each field is played back in the right order.
Click to expand...
 
Finally stopped the jitters

Okay, I don't know how many people this will help, but Perian 1.1 Quick Time component seemed to be the issue. I removed the component, restarted and the jitters went away.
 
I have been experiencing the "choppy DVD" issue with iMovie 08 and iDVD 08. I had Perian installed and after removing it iDVD is now making non-choppy DVDs. Woo! :)
 
Splith, are you actually playing back these choppy DVD's on a standalone DVD player or other system and seeing this choppiness, or are you playing back only on your Mac? The issue with Perian 1.1 may be a playback issue not an iDVD encoding issue. Just a thought.
 
I experienced choppiness when playing back the DVDs on both my Mac and on standalone DVD players including an XBox 360 and a regular old DVD player (not sure of the brand/model).

After removing Perian and re-burning the DVDs, I no longer get choppy playback on the Mac or 360.
 
spilth said:
I experienced choppiness when playing back the DVDs on both my Mac and on standalone DVD players including an XBox 360 and a regular old DVD player (not sure of the brand/model).

After removing Perian and re-burning the DVDs, I no longer get choppy playback on the Mac or 360.
Click to expand...

I removed Perian in an effort to boost framerate, and it was successful as well. However, now I lost my sound. The DVD I'm trying to create via iDVD contains .avi files. Should I convert these to something else?
 
I too, had the same experience... after removing Perian 1.1 and ran iDVD again, the newly created DVD plays smooth on my iMac, MacBook Pro and the Sony DVD player in the living room.
 
I just bought a Sony HDR-SR12 and I had the same choppy results on moving images. I had used iMovie 8 for editing, QT 7.5 pro for exporting files. After several attempts I got very satisfactory results by: Share, export using QT - Export movie with QT - Options: setting compression H264, frame rate 60, size HD 1920x1080 16x9 - I found the frame rate very critical. Hopefully this will be of help. Good luck. Giovanni.
 
Gbassani said:
I just bought a Sony HDR-SR12 and I had the same choppy results on moving images. I had used iMovie 8 for editing, QT 7.5 pro for exporting files. After several attempts I got very satisfactory results by: Share, export using QT - Export movie with QT - Options: setting compression H264, frame rate 60, size HD 1920x1080 16x9 - I found the frame rate very critical. Hopefully this will be of help. Good luck. Giovanni.
Click to expand...

Curious, Gbassani, did you keep Perian installed when you achieved a successful burn in iDVD?
 
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