If Apple products are superior to PC

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by mark28, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. mark28 macrumors 68000

    Jan 29, 2010
    Why do you all buy Applecare? :confused:

    I'm still trying to justify buying Applecare atm. My $500 3 year old PC laptop which I gave away to my girlfriend still works 100%. My sister got a very old PC laptop that still works too.

    So is it wrong to expect that my MBP should work atleast 3 years without any problems, thus that Applecare is not needed at all?
  2. ayeying macrumors 601


    Dec 5, 2007
    Yay Area, CA
    AppleCare = Warranty

    there's nothing wrong with having warranty.

    Why do you have insurance on your car? house? other products?
  3. miles01110 macrumors Core


    Jul 24, 2006
    The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
    ...to protect against accidental damage, which Applecare doesn't.

    However, insurance for your car generally does not cover against random part failures, which Applecare does. Car/home insurance and Applecare are two different things.
  4. ayeying macrumors 601


    Dec 5, 2007
    Yay Area, CA
    Okay, bad example.

    What about warranty on cars or other products in your house? Why would you buy extended warranty or any warranty at all?

    Everything is bound to fail sooner or later. Some last longer, some don't. Having some sort of warranty protection kinda gives a piece of mind in case a failure does occur.
  5. Maschil macrumors 6502a


    Jun 19, 2011
    safety really if its man made it could break the next day... ill probably get it from B&H for 190... Which is a small price to pay for a 1k computer.
  6. mystik610 macrumors regular

    Jul 23, 2011
    People buy Applecare because Apple employees are taught to very aggressively sell it (because the profit margins on Applecare are so high), and because its easy to upsell people and tack on additional costs immediately after they've decided to make a big purchase.

    Warranties are underwritten the same way insurance policies are....The cost of the warranty is made up of an actuarily predicted cost of claims per contact, plus overhead, plus a (high) margin for profit. Only a very small percentage of users will experience 'losses' throughout the warranty period that exceed the cost of the warranty itself. It is not a coincidence that major failures occur immediately after the warranty period is up. There is actuarial/statistical data behind the length of the warranty period and the cost.

    Even if you do find yourself utilizing Applecare for repairs, the actual cost of repairs will likely be less than the cost of the warranty itself. If this weren't the case, Apple would be losing money on Applecare. In most cases, warranties generate higher profit margins than the product itself...which is why representatives at Apple, Best Buy, the car dealership etc etc etc are trained to shove them down your throat.

    I never buy warranties because even if something did go wrong, I usually have the technical know-how and patience to fix it myself for far cheaper than the cost of the warranty. When you fix something yourself, you'll be suprised at 1) how easy it actually is to fix, and 2) how cheap it actually is to fix. Even if you can't fix something yourself, its still usually cheaper to have issues serviced as they happen.

    The real 'value' to a warranty really is the piece of mind that comes with knowing that you have a contractual agreement with someone to have something fixed if it breaks. But there is a very high price premium involved with having that piece of mind.
  7. Young Spade macrumors 68020

    Mar 31, 2011
    Tallahassee, Florida
    For peace of mind because I know I won't be breaking my laptop anytime soon. No it does not cover accidental damage, why should it? You could argue it's up to the consumer to take care of their products. Why would Apple pay for the people who spill drinks and drop their computers?

    You don't have to have it but you're taking a small chance when you don't. That's why people keep buying it and that's why Apple makes a ton of money selling it.
  8. fisherking macrumors 603


    Jul 16, 2010
    ny somewhere
    i've always had applecare, since my pismo (seems a million years ago).

    almost 3 years in, the hard drive on my 12" powerbook died; apple replaced it under applecare.

    recently, my 13" mb's trackpad wonked out. got it replaced (in an hour!) at the genius bar (plus they gave me a new battery), no charge.

    my friend had his 15" macbook pro logic board replaced last year, under applecare.

    adding up the yearly cost for this versus the repair work...it's just worth it.
    mac, pc, toaster, whatever...things break.
  9. tootall macrumors regular

    Apr 17, 2011
    Quebec, Canada
    At my work, IT support is questionable and slow. Buying Applecare allows me to have almost immediate service repair and support. Therefore I save downtime which is priceless.
  10. aristobrat macrumors G5

    Oct 14, 2005
    Your girlfriend and sister had no problems using old PC laptops for years.

    Other people, using the exact same PC laptop models as your girlfriend/sister, experienced hardware problems.

    MBPs are no different. Apple has no magical ability to guarantee that every single MBP will work for at least three years without any problems. Most will. Others won't.

    If you're interested in more, there are quite a few large "reliability" surveys that have been recently done, showing Apple's notebooks towards the tops in reliability, but never #1 in that category.
  11. Young Spade macrumors 68020

    Mar 31, 2011
    Tallahassee, Florida
    Yes. Because the computer itself costs so much AND the price of the internals cost a lot, it is really beneficial to buy if something goes wrong. It isn't something like... say, a television or... a desktop computer in that it never moves and if something breaks, you can simply replace that part from an online site.

    With these notebooks, yea if the HDD breaks you can simply buy another one; however, if something "else" breaks, you cannot just "buy it off of ebay" and fix it yourself. Personally I'm buying Applecare because I'm a college student and I just won't have the money laying around to pay for something breaking. It's a lot EASIER to pay upfront for any damages and, if they happen, they'll pay for themselves.

    Yes. Just last night my grandmother could not log into her HP (dv7?)? Anyway, it's a very nice, 17 inch laptop from HP. The "newer" ones with the single trackpad that's black and the light on the back, you know what I mean.

    So I'm on customer support for 40 minutes and (of course, I'm in India) I had to restart in safe mode, log online and give complete control to the tech guy who did some stuff for 10 or so minutes. After I restarted (and successfully logged in), we lost connection to the call.

    With Applecare, you just go online, set up an appointment, walk in, drop off, come back, and you're done. That's it. No waiting on the phone, no frustration, no worries. Of course, nothing physically "broke" here but if it did, we'd have to call for a repair box, wait for it, then ship it off and be without her computer for at least 2 weeks.
  12. danpass macrumors 68020


    Jun 27, 2009
    Miami, FL
    I bought my MBP with my AMEX Green.

    It doubles the manufacturer's warranty.

    I believe Discover has a similar option. Too many V/MC options out there to know about them.

    I have to look into Applecare more deeply though.
  13. wegster macrumors 6502

    Nov 1, 2006
    Yep, this.
    And when the above posted calls out cheaper to repair than the warrantee, that means for Apple to do so, not necessarily the end user - go and price a logic board replacement some time. :eek:

    For virtually every single electronic device I've ever purchased, the add-on warrantee has been an immediate "no thanks!" and has been justified to not go for it. The majority of electronics are either DOA out of the box, have issues within a very short period of time which is within the normal warrantee time, or live beyond their generally useful life (meaning the time at which most have already upgraded, moved on to new tech/model, etc.). This is exactly what companies bank on (and as stated, it's backed up by their own stats on failure rates/returns, etc.) when they try to sell you 'additional coverage.'

    That doesn't mean it never pays to have it, though - it just means for a majority of people buying the extended coverage, any usage of it in cost to the company is < the cost of the warrantee. Anyone needing a logic board or display replacement is definitely better with the few hundred on the replacement, where virtually everyone else could have easily gone without it.

    Having said that, Apple Macbook/pros are the only thing I've ever considered getting an 'extended warrantee'/Applecare on, and sadly it's because of all of the reported cases of needing logic board replacements, GPUs becoming de-soldered due to head (older Nvidea issue), and similar. In 2 years (or anything beyond the 1 year original Applecare), having an originally $2500 notebook need a ~$1000 logic board replacement when at the time the laptops used value is perhaps $1200 or so - is a tough spot to potentially wind up in. Having a hard drive die - who cares? It's inconvenient but low $, and even a top case + keyboard barely would break even with the cost of AppleCare, but the logic board.. :-/

    At this point, I'm still undecided. I had a dual G4 tower still going strong many years later, the first C2D non unibody MBP 15" still going strong, a refurbed 13" SR white macbook that had a single key DOA out of the box (replaced under original warrantee) that a few years later still works but has flaky USB (after 4 years), and now the highest end MBP 15" sans SSD (7200RPM HD, 2.3GHz i7, HR, AG) which lives connected to an external LCD the majority of the time, meaning the temps that go along with it (77*C at the moment, 4500 RPM fans, pretty common when using an external LCD), and I have some concern about the heat over time causing issues. I expect fully for the machine to very likely outlive the 1 year coverage, but I got out of the 'upgrade every year' phase some years back, so really would like to see at least 3 years out of the machine, unless the wife convinces me she 'needs' it and then I get a 'free' upgrade at some point...so am completely undecided on extending the Applecare at this point - I may well do it, just for sanity/peace of mind.
  14. i4k20c macrumors 6502a


    Sep 10, 2005
    Purchased a 3 year apple care with my 12 inch powerbook g4 back in 05, never used it once. Laptop still runs fine and is in perfect shape & actually for sale in the marketplace, haha.

    Needless to say, I haven't purchased apple care yet for my mbp and prob. won't do so. I purchased the comp. with Visa so I have the original warranty expanded to another year..aka i'm paying $~200 for 1 year of protection imo.

    Now let me point out, yes, dealing with a CC warranty is NOT as nice as simply walking into the apple store and getting what you want..but I realized that I took care of my machines and the chances of something going wrong in the second/third year (when nothing went wrong in the first year) is rare for me.

    Warranties/Road Hazard/Etc. are always things that some people will say is completely worth it and some will say to never buy it.
  15. Vulcan macrumors 65816


    Jul 17, 2008
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I've purchased AppleCare with my 15" PowerBook G4, white MacBook, 13" MBP, and plan to with my most recent 15" MBP. Have I had to use it? I got a new screen and bluetooth module on my 15" PowerBook (white spots issues) under the warranty. This repair would have costed around $800-900 otherwise. I also got the top case on my white MacBook replaced as it was misaligned. I never had to use it on my 13" MBP yet, but I did get a mighty mouse replaced under the warranty.

    For a lot of problems, the cost of the repair may be less than the warranty itself. In my case though, I wouldn't have been able to afford the repair on my PowerBook had I not purchased the warranty. As I'm still a student, I can't afford to be without a computer, so I continue to buy the warranties.
  16. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus


    Jan 9, 2004
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    FWIW, it's important to note that Apple takes in more money over a large number of customers for Applecare fees than it pays back out in terms of repair services under A/C. If you buy a MacBook Pro and run it for three years, and you pay for A/C, and it has a catastrophic failure, you're getting a pretty good deal out of your A/C. You just can't predict whether it will or not, or whether the MacBook will be destroyed in some way that isn't covered.

    In general, warranties make sense when the impact of the loss is financially catastrophic, even if the event is rare. They make much less sense the more routine the event is. If you buy one computer every five years, you have some chance of coming out ahead with A/C. If you buy a hundred computers a year, you're almost certainly better off putting your money in an escrow account and replacing the defective ones yourself. Then, you shouldn't buy the warranty. On the other hand, if your apartment catches on fire, and all your stuff burns down, this is a catastrophic event for most people, who can't readily go spend $20,000 or $40,000 to replace all of it. That's why we buy renter's (or homeowner's) insurance. In that same way, it's probably worth considering what position you'd be in if your computer did fail. If you can just go out and buy a new one without difficulty, that probably makes the extended warranty less valuable to you.
  17. JKK photography macrumors regular

    JKK photography

    Jul 14, 2009
    Why do I have AppleCare? Because **** happens.
  18. Adamantoise macrumors 6502a

    Aug 1, 2011
    Apple products come with a standard 1 year warranty. If anything is wrong with your laptop, you will find out within a couple months.

    Applecare doesn't cover accidental damage so what is the bloody point?

    I think Applecare is for people with money to burn.
  19. wegster macrumors 6502

    Nov 1, 2006
    Yep, no argument - this is a good way of looking at it, especially on the frequency of purchases/expected replacement vs what kind of situation would you likely be in IF a major repair became necessary.
  20. Young Spade macrumors 68020

    Mar 31, 2011
    Tallahassee, Florida
    That's like not buying car insurance because manufacturers give you a 30/100 thousand mile warranty on the car.

    Problems occur AFTER TIME PROGRESSES. That's why the warranty extends the period you are covered, not increases the coverage over that first year.

    As things run, they wear. Wear = higher chance of breaking. It's common sense to see "how" or "why" one would opt into Apple Care.

    However, you have to think about what it is you're buying, how you use it, and how long you intend to keep it. If I got a laptop and just sold the old one every year (like a lot of people here do) I wouldn't' get it. However, seeing as I'm going to keep this laptop (which is a laptop and subject to the world and its elements) for many years, I'm going to get it before the first year is up.
  21. Prodo123 macrumors 68020


    Nov 18, 2010
    This is what you're trying to say:
    If Mercedez-Benz is better than Toyota, why do you buy car/life insurance?
  22. squeakr macrumors 68000


    Apr 22, 2010
    Although this is generally true. I had a MBP Early 2008, with 7 days left of extended Applecare. Apple could't fix it (or didn't want to, not sure which it was), but they replaced it with a Brand new 2011 High End MBP. The same thing would have run me almost $3K and I got it for the added $250 of AppleCare.
    With my server they give me free phone support with trained technicians (when I have strange issues arise that on one can seem to touch). With the standard warranty, I get 90 days only, but with the extended AppleCare it goes to 3 years. For the price I would pay to talk to a certified specialist, I would get about 1/2 of an incident worth of support for the same price. I think it is worth it and not just for people with money to burn. It is god for the things that we can't fix on our own.

    I am trained in micro component repair and replacement (no longer due this for a living), but it would be a task for me to repair a logic board without the schematics. If you can do such than I agree with your money to burn theory. Otherwise it is a rather cheap safety net for those that make a living through their computers.

    Heck, why even buy new? By an older used version that is tried and true and save your money. New things are for people with money to burn.
  23. bobr1952 macrumors 68020


    Jan 21, 2008
    Melbourne, FL
    I bought AC for my iMac in 2008 but I'm not so sure I would get it again when I get my next Mac. Why is getting AC any different than any other extended warranty? I stupidly did get extended warranty for the car I bought in 2001 and never used it. I have not bought it for any other product except the iMac since then. I bought a $2000 fridge in December that might have as much computing power as my iMac but I didn't get an extended warranty for that. Same with the LG washer I bought that again has some very sophisticated computer logic in it. What will happen when they break out of warranty? I'll get them fixed and pay for it then. Why shouldn't I do that for the next Mac I buy--and I do plan to buy a Macbook Air later this year. I think I may pass on AC this time. ;)
  24. wallysb01 macrumors 65816

    Jun 30, 2011
    Like addressed above, that is not analogous.

    This would be like buying the extended warranty from your car dealership.

    Warranties for most individuals are simply not worth it except in a few specific situations. We know from various consumer websites that warranties has huge profit margins in most cases. Thus, on average, the cost of repairs and replacements is less than the cost of warranties. Some people wish to justify warranties with high costs of particular products, but at even $2-3K, the $250 or more AC is circa 10% of the cost. That means, to be a wise choice, the product needs a rough 10% chance of failure, assuming you're using cost of replacement. Or you need smaller chances of failures balanced out with higher chances of cheaper problems.

    However, what you're buying is years 2 and 3 in this warranty. So the product has to fail or need replacement parts in only that time window. Also, by year 2 and 3, you're computer will have diminished in value, and you buy a used replacement for much less, plus, computer part replacements continue to drop in price as well. So AC itself, appears to be a pretty bad deal, unless you know you're buying a model with some specific issues.

    Now in general for individuals, you're faced with buying warranties quite frequently. TVs, computers, cars, houses, cameras, phones, dish washers, you get the point. So, your saving a lot of money by opting to get NONE of them, knowing you will likely eventually see a catastrophic failure that could have been covered. A smart individual then makes sure to save small amounts of money over time to cover these possible catastrophic losses. This means you don't actually need to buy hundreds of computers to out run the effect singular catastrophic losses, should you happen to encounter one, because you buy far more things that might break than just computers.

    Buying the warranty is almost always a sucker's deal. Its only not the case unless you know there is an abnormally high chance of failure. But then, why would you buy such products?

    Edit: And this brings up a great way to shut up any salesman who's pushing their warranty too hard. Just tell them "If I thought I needed a warranty, I wouldn't buy your product". You'll see them shut up pretty quick.
  25. marshallbedsaul macrumors 6502a


    Nov 14, 2007
    My friend always get apple care and they never end up having to use it and forget that they bought it most of the times. They buy it just incase something happens. I guess its better to have piece of mind.

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