If apple wants to rule my digital world

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by nozzleman, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. nozzleman macrumors newbie

    Jan 21, 2011

    If Apple wants to rule my digital world they have to rule the largest screen in my world, my TV. Apples latest version of the Apple TV is a step in the right direction but if I was designing the Apple TV this is what I would do.

    Where Apple is failing with the ATV at this point is that it is not an " always on " device, meaning if my wife takes a picture on her iPhone or sees a funny video on YouTube and wants to share that with me either I have to look at the screen of the phone or the iPad, if we want to see it on the big screen I first have to change the input of my TV then turn on the ATV and then use Airplay to stream it over not convenient.

    First the design of the ATV, I think anyone who has ever owned an ATV has always wished for a TV tuner in it. Well my design would have a TV tuner and DVR functionality it would come in either 64 or 128 gig flash memory versions.

    Now imagine this I am watching TV on my ATV and my wife has just taken a picture or video with her iPhone or has found the best video ever on YouTube and she has got to show it to me right this very second but I am in the dying minutes of the game but I don't want to be in the doghouse. As she walks into the room she turns on AirPlay on whatever iOS device she has and my game disappears from the screen and a picture or video replaces it in seconds, am I loosing my mind because I am missing the game? No because as soon as AirPlay was turned on my good old ATV started recording whatever I was watching to it's flash memory so I don't miss the game and I am not in the doghouse for being insensitive and not wanting to see what she had to show me. Apple could be saving marriages and relationships all over.

    With that DVR functionality I can record TV shows and either transfer them to my iPhone or iPad to take along with me or I can access the ATV remotely and watch live TV or watch something that has been recorded or even schedule a TV recording, an " always on " device.

    My redesigned ATV would have the ability to run apps. Again imagine I am watching TV and in the background I have Facebook running and one of my buddies posts a new status and guess what, right there in my top right hand corner of my screen his status shows up for a few seconds then fades away. Let's say that same buddy posts a YouTube video, well because my ATV has Safari onboard I am able to navigate to the video and watch it and oh yeah I am not missing a minute of my show because the DVR has kicked in and is recording the last thing I was watching. There are all kinds of apps that could run in the background weather, Twitter, game stats you are only limited by your imagination.

    What is another part of my digital world that Apple has been trying to rule? Gaming. Just think about it I have a great new game but I want to play it on the big screen, Airplay and you are playing on the big screen. What you don't want to use up space on your ATV for games or the game is too large or needs more computing power not a problem use your Mac as the game console and the ATV as just the display device and your iPhone as the controller. Even with my Mac being the game console the ATV is ruling my digital world because it gives me the ability to use my TV as my screen for gaming.

    I do not pretend to know all the legal stuff when it comes to TV recording and if there is a fee a DVR manufacturer has to pay to cable companies but I bet cable companies would waive that fee if they could have real time data on what is being watched, by who and where. If you feel this is an invasion of your privacy well cable companies do it now without your knowledge at least this way it would with your consent. In the past it has not been in real time that these stats would be available they would conduct a phone survey to find this out and crunch a few numbers to come up with a pretty good guess. This data could be a way for Apple to either get around fees for the DVR if there are fees or if there are not fees whats to say Apple makes money by placing it's own ads in the commercial spots. All of this would work and create another revenue stream.

    In my latest readings it sounds like Microsoft is moving away from it's Media Center functionality in the next version of Windows. I hear many complains about HTPC's saying they are complicated. I believe Media Center was before it's time and form factor is it's downfall. Microsoft wanted you to put a computer tower in your living room or entertainment stand, if you were not some kind of computer geek this was a little intimidating . Apple has that done already, they have found the form factor that has been accepted, computing power and OS have caught up to the form factor needed for the living room all that needs to be done now is to put the pieces together.

    In closing I hope someone from Apple reads this because this is what us the consumers want hell maybe Apple should just get into the HDTV manufacturing business with all these functions built right in they build a beautiful 27" iMac not much of a stretch to go to 50". In my world I could have been writing this on my TV while my ATV is recording the show I missed while writing this. Please weigh in on this, the more of a response this gets maybe just maybe we'll start to see this become reality. Again I do not pretend to know all on how this works but I am a buying consumer looking for that next device to bring it all together and I believe Apple is right there they just need a little push by the buying public. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

  2. MacDawg macrumors Core


    Mar 20, 2004
    "Between the Hedges"
    They would be more likely to read it if you submitted it to them on their feedback form

    Welcome to the Forums
    Interesting first post
  3. nozzleman thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jan 21, 2011
    I did as you suggested, this time they accepted my feedback. The first time I posted it to them they wrote me to tell me they removed it. I just hope to generate some ideas/disscussion. Thanks
  4. rayward macrumors 68000

    Mar 13, 2007
    Houston, TX
    - Steve Jobs

    Just kidding. I like the ideas, especially the ATV/DVR/TV Tuner concept.
  5. rdowns macrumors Penryn


    Jul 11, 2003
    Let's get those Apple should buy Tivo posts going.
  6. chrono1081 macrumors 604


    Jan 26, 2008
    Isla Nublar
    Were you posting it on the forum? Or the feedback form.

    http://www.apple.com/feedback is the correct place to submit suggestions.
  7. s15119 macrumors 68000


    Nov 20, 2010
    "First the design of the ATV, I think anyone who has ever owned an ATV has always wished for a TV tuner in it."

    Why. I own and ATV - I have no wish for a TV Tuner in it. Why would I? It's hooked up to my TV which has a very nice tuner, thank you very much :)
  8. nozzleman thread starter macrumors newbie

    Jan 21, 2011
    I actually posted to both and both were removed. After another post on here suggest I try it. I tried it again in the just the feedback form this time and it was accepted. Thanks for the feedback. I have thought about this subject for a long time and decided today I was going to sit down a right a kind of mission statement to Apple.

    I hope Apple realizes they are just right there on the edge with this, they may be seeing how Google fairs out with it's version but Google is like a bull in a china shop they throw things out there and then try to sort out the fallout.

    In regards to the Tivo deal this puts Apple in a spot, they then would become direct competition to the cable companies that Apple gets it's TV programming for itunes. Apple doesn't like to be in direct competition unless it can win. At this point and time people are looking for ways to cut the cable but still haven't not completely. So in the short term this is a situation when it is best to work with them and save the big battle for another day.

    Thanks again everyone for the replies I love reading them.

  9. KeithJenner macrumors 6502a

    Sep 30, 2010
    A while ago I would have agreed with most of your suggestion, but now I'm not so sure.

    I previously used Windows Media Center, which I believe is one of the best things that Microsoft have produced. However, it never really took off as well as I had expected it to.

    We used it for everything. We listened to music, watched and recorded TV and also watched our ripped DVD's on it. One of my great fears when moving over to the Apple TV was that the lack of a TV tuner would be a problem.

    However, now we have the Apple TV, I'm really glad it doesn't have one. It makes us use the Apple TV for what we bought it for (to view our DVD rips and to listen to music) and, rather that being stuck within that one package, it has really opened up our TV. We use our Sky box for every day viewing and recording, and are now more likely to turn on the PS3. Previously, changing the channel on the TV was something we just very rarely did.

    The killer problem though was that people didn't like using Media Center. If the in-laws came over to babysit there was no way we could leave the TV on Media Center. They were terrified of it. I knew quite a few people who were interested in it, but a quick demo quickly put them off. It was just too overwhelming for a lot of people. They just didn't want to have to deal with a computer to watch the TV.

    That's the great thing about the Apple TV. It is simple to use. There are a lot of things in your post that sound good, but I seriously doubt whether it will sell anything like as well as you think.
  10. PurdueGuy macrumors regular

    Jun 23, 2010
    One box to rule them all is going to leave someone unhappy. And companies making DVRs don't have to pay cable companies a thing. They pay Tribune for guide data (as does the cable company) and the customer pays the cable company for a CableCARD or STB (if needed).

    If I'm watching TV, I want to be in control of what pauses it.

    I'm perfectly happy changing inputs. I don't want one box that is:
    - DVR
    - BluRay/DVD
    - Netflix
    - Hulu
    - YouTube
    - Amazon
    - Blah blah blah

    I have redundancy now, and if I need to use my HTPC for something, or TiVo is recording 2 shows already, I can use something else for Netflix. If my one and only one device breaks, I'm out of EVERYTHING.
  11. kiranmk2 macrumors 6502a


    Oct 4, 2008
    Don't forget that Apple doesn't want you to watch TV. It wants you to subscribe to a season pass so you watch your programs on your schedule rather than relying on live TV.
  12. iPhoneCollector macrumors 6502a


    Nov 30, 2010
    That would be really expensive. But overall not a bad idea
  13. GFLPraxis macrumors 604


    Mar 17, 2004
    I just want an Apple TV with a composite input :(

    I have multiple TVs in the house, and besides the 50" 3DTV, one of them is an older 54" projection SDTV that works much better for gaming. Would love to be able to stream video to it, because 480i/p content and DVD-rips actually look lot better on it than on the newer TV (on which it looks pixellated), and the TV can't be used for anything other than gaming in its current state (I cancelled cable and stream everything).

    A PS3 would work to stream to it, but that's $299 to stream to an older TV...
  14. emptyCup macrumors 65816


    Jan 5, 2005
    You haven't said anything that Apple doesn't know. Jobs himself said that nobody can fix TV because nobody can get the content providers together or produce a box that enough people will buy vs. the ones that cable companies give away.

    The mistake you make is assuming that everyone wants the same thing you do. I have a tuner in my TV and I find there is rarely anything worth tuning in to. I don't need additional tuners. Plus many countries tax tuners. I assume people in those countries don't want to pay twice.

    Same problem with DVRs. Too little content worth recording. We pay $10 / month for basic channels. I know that if I paid $80 or $120 a month there would be more. If I were paying $120 a month my cable company would give me a box with a DVR.

    What I want, and what I think many people want, is ala carte TV. I want to pay for only the shows I want. I don't want to own them and I don't really want a monthly bill. Netflix is okay because it is relatively cheap. But you can't get everything and Netflix does not own their content. When Netflix starts hurting the networks there will be no more Netflix.

    I think ala carte TV is coming but the networks and cable companies will fight it the same way the record companies bemoaned the death of the album. iTunes returned $12 billion to the record companies and they still think they were robbed.

    I believe that right now Apple wants to demonstrate to the networks that millions will buy the appleTV just to rent programs. Soon you will be able to do more with it. Games, home movies, family pictures, stuff from you iPhone or iPad. When it becomes clear that people are using their TVs to do things other than watch commercial content then maybe the networks will budge. But they will not change until they feel their survival is at stake.

    Probably you are smart enough to bit torrent your television. Most people don't know how. I don't feel it is right. But piracy did an excellent job of breaking the record companies. It would probably be more effective then writing Apple.

    Much has changed since I was a kid and there were only 3 networks and no VCRs. More will change but you overestimate what Apple can do and what "us the consumers" want. Best wishes.
  15. From A Buick 8 macrumors 68040

    From A Buick 8

    Sep 16, 2010
    Ky Close to CinCinnati
    +1 no need for a tuner, already paid for one in my TV.
  16. nsayer macrumors 6502a


    Jan 23, 2003
    Silicon Valley
    An Apple TV app store would fix this.

    There's lots of USB ATSC tuners out there, and even a couple networked ones (the HDHomeRun comes to mind).

    Another good one would be an iTiVo equivalent app - something that would stream recorded shows from a TiVo.

    I'd for sure buy THAT AppleTV!
  17. ftaok, Jan 22, 2011
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2011

    ftaok macrumors 603


    Jan 23, 2002
    East Coast
    This is an interesting thought. Personally, I have no issues with changing inputs, but I can see where you're coming from. What you're describing is sort of like how GoogleTV does it. Someone once described GoogleTV as a replacement for Input1 and AppleTV as a replacement of Input2. Google wants to replace the built-in tuner or the CableSTB. Apple wants to replace the DVD/Blu-Ray player.

    At one point, I've wished for DVR capabilities in a small box ... or at least a networked DVR that the aTV could easily tap into for recordings and live tv (via an available tuner). In the USA, most folks get their TV via cable or satellite. With satellite completely closed and cable stuck with CableCard, I think it'll be a long time before you see DVR capabilities for aTV. The small percentage of people on OTA is not worth it for Apple to target.

    The only thing that I can think of is that if Apple opens up the aTV for apps, someone (probably Silicon Dust) could write an app that connects to the HDHomeRun tuners over the network. With the CableCard version of the HDHR close to being ready, perhaps the aTV could "record" or watch premium cable channels. I could see that iOS would be more acceptable to CableLabs vs. OS X.

    I think the aTV will ask the user if they want to switch to Airplay. EDIT - I just checked. Airplay interrupted the video that my kids were watching.


    One way around the limited onboard flash storage of the aTV for gaming would be to store games on an iTunes connected computer and use Home Share. Games would load over the network on-demand

    I've always thought that WMC was great, but most folks don't want that much power. It's too complicated for regular folks. Apple could take the basics of WMC and distill it down to the 3 or 4 features that most people really want, but the problem is that Apple seems to be at odds with the cable company's current model.

    I don't think this will ever happen. There's too many players in the TV set market. The OEMs are desperately trying to prevent HDTVs from becoming a commodity market, and they're not doing that great a job at it. In my opinion, Apple should have no interest in getting into the TV set market. Too many sizes, price points, and transmission standards to worry about. The last thing that Apple wants is 3000 SKU numbers just for TVs.

    Actually, Tivo doesn't compete with cable companies. Tivo needs cable TV to prosper in order to make money. I don't think Apple would have any interest in buying Tivo for their business. They may want them for the name and their intellectual property, but I don't think that Tivo's business model makes sense for Apple. Besides, Apple is an international company and Tivo is limited to the US.

  18. spice weasel macrumors 65816

    Jul 25, 2003
    There are some good ideas in the OP's post. Not that I think there is a chance of most of them being implemented, for various reasons.

    I'd be thrilled if Apple would just finally implement podcast syncing across computers/devices. I can't see any reason why this can't or shouldn't be done.
  19. fkntotalkaos macrumors 6502

    Nov 24, 2007
    great post, make a petition with online signatures and submit it
  20. OllyW Moderator


    Staff Member

    Oct 11, 2005
    The Black Country, England
    Not for much longer. :)

  21. alFR macrumors 68020

    Aug 10, 2006
    Many interesting points, good post. One thing I would take issue with though:

    I don't know about you but that's only a total of 4 button presses for me, so unless I badly sprain both thumbs I don't see that as a big issue. ;)
  22. xraydoc macrumors demi-god


    Oct 9, 2005
    A tuner in the Apple TV, for me, would be useless since my cable company, Comcast, uses a digital system that requires an external box or a Multistream CableCard to receive anything. And unless Apple built an Apple TV with a CableCard slot, the tuner would remain unused.
  23. thetruth1985 macrumors 6502

    Sep 17, 2010
    You do bring up some good points but at the same time, you seem like the type that will never be happy with current tech. You are complaining that airplay interrupts what you are watching but prior to airplay, your wife would have to either show you the video on your phone, or worse, change the game to boot up your htpc to show you the video on there. I'm sure airplay will evolve in the future but most of the problem lies with the content providers. There are still a bunch of shows not available on the apple tv because they don't like the .99 cent price point. Also, look what happened to google tv. They gave consumers what they wanted and one by one, most of the major content providers started to block their content one by one.
  24. Uofmtiger macrumors 68020


    Dec 11, 2010
    I would like to see it run apps..Pandora, Rhapsody, Slingbox, etc... I would like it to work with Plex, Tversity, etc..(without a jailbreak) These seem like something that would be easy to implement. Airplay will be better when it works with all apps, but I would also like to see a solution that does not need an iOS portable device to run apps.

    I had WMC with OTA tuners (HDTV and standard) and never used them like I thought I would. I have Directv, so the Cablecard is not something I want. I would rather see it do something like EyeTV HD, which records in HD via component input (or better yet, HDMI) but that would drive up the cost.

    I would also recommend that the OP invest in a universal remote that can run macros. I hit one button and it turns on my receiver and switches inputs.

    The main reason I have an ATV2 is because it was less than $100, it sends a simultaneus audio output via HDMI and optical, it works with iTunes, airplay, and the future potential for apps. I also like the streaming from the web features, but with the price, I would have bought it anyway. If it added cost for cable card, tuners, and other features I would never use, I would have lived without it... Although they could have different versions at different prices, but the $100 price tag would be hard to compete with.
  25. stuartmeyers macrumors regular


    Aug 1, 2010
    Voice Recognition Commands

    Personally, I want voice recognition on my TV because wherever I am my controller is not.

    For example, if I am at the computer and the controller is on the lounge, I want to say "TV: Change Input HDMI3" so it switches the TV to ATV2 and I can play video or music from iTunes to the TV.

    Or, since I have an Airport Express as well so that I can watch the cricket and the wife listens to music instead of the commentary, to turn it back to TV sound on my HIFI when something exciting happens and I want to hear, I want to say "HIFI: Change Input Digital In" and after that "HIFI: Change Input Auxiliary" to return to the AE.

    Voice recognition for common basic commands would be useful on all the devices. eg Volume Up, Volume Down, Channel Up, Channel 10, Menu, TV Guide, Fast Forward, Pause, TV Off, Mute, etc.

    Maybe Logitech can add voice recognition to their Harmony range.

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