If Blackberry Can Do It, Why Can't Apple?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by Bush438, Aug 17, 2007.

  1. Bush438 macrumors member

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    Jul 28, 2007
    #1
    Ok, I was just reading the review for the Blackberry World Edition. This is a perfect example of a phone that 'almost' does it all.

    It also has 3G. Looking at the size of this thing it is very comparable to the size of the iPhone. Can we just get past the myth that Apple has been giving us about the 'size' of the 3G chip and not being able to squeeze it into iPhone V1???

    I have an iPhone and love it, but the lack of 3G really kills me and dampens the performance and user appeal.
     
  2. D1G1T4L macrumors 68000

    D1G1T4L

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    #2
    Where would you put it? Looking at the breakdown of what is in an iPhone the space is limited.

    I'm not saying it can't be done but to say they could have easily done it in the present form is hard to see.
     
  3. jt2ga65 macrumors regular

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    Jul 1, 2007
    #3
    Apple was pretty clear that it was not just the size of the the 3G chips that was the problem, but also the power requirements. Any just because the new Blackberry can do it now, it doen't really mean that the iPhone could do it a year ago when the designs were final, or that the Blackberry's designers had the same goals as the iPhone designers.

    I doubt that the next release of the iPhone won't have 3G. We'll have to wait and see, though. EDGE is plenty fast for what I have used it for.

    -jt2
     
  4. Bush438 thread starter macrumors member

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    Jul 28, 2007
    #4
    Very Good points.

    I just can't stand EDGE, it is soo slow, even on basic websites.

    I find it hard to believe Europe will get a non 3G iPhone. If they can do it for Europe which the launch is supposed to be in December, they could have done it for us.
     
  5. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

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    #5
    Does this phone have a touch screen? 8Gbs of flash memory? Wi-Fi? Normal headphone jack?


    All of those things take up space...
     
  6. D1G1T4L macrumors 68000

    D1G1T4L

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    #6
    I am interested to see what happens. It will be interesting to watch.
     
  7. jt2ga65 macrumors regular

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    Jul 1, 2007
    #7
    I was just talking to a co-worker that has a blackberry and AT&T service. According to him, 3G isn't available in Colorado. I'm thinking that due to this, Apple would have had to put both EDGE and 3G into the phone, which definitely would have taken up more space, and power.

    I wasn't aware that AT&T was just in the process of deploying 3G. Of course, before the iPhone, I didn't bother with data on my old RAZR.

    -jt2
     
  8. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    Location:
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    #8
    Speaking of scary, if your old RAZR was a V3, it didn't even have EDGE -- just GPRS! :eek:

    EDGE actually works very well for the Blackberry's e-mail, although granted it's not ideal for some of the apps (e.g. Beyond 411 is great, but Google Maps is awfully slow). The difference is much more apparent on the iPhone because of the nature of its apps and things -- the non-email web aspect of the iPhone is so much more prominent in its featureset than it is in the Blackberries.

    I'm sure Apple will have 3G at some point... considering that they seem intent on staying with AT&T, it's pretty likely that they'll make an EDGE+UMTS version next. I am happy to be corrected, but I don't actually think it's such a complexity to keep EDGE when you add 3G as it is to add the 3G in the first place.
     
  9. Canuck4 macrumors 6502a

    Canuck4

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    Jul 31, 2007
    #9
    1st of all 3G is not even available thru AT&T in most US areas.
    In Europe is a different story, 3G is popular and everywhere.
    2nd do you want a phone that would die in a half hour while using 3G?
    3G drains the baterry very fast.
    For the US Edge with unlimited usage is fine IMO. Also wifi is everywhere and has way better power performance.
     
  10. bmustaf macrumors regular

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    #10
    Opportunity Cost. There is X amount of space inside...the iPhone has much more sophisticated processors (media, CPU, touchscreen ASICs) than the BBWE. Trade-offs.

    I have a 3G phone...battery life is mediocre. Rather spend the battery on watching media I have stored locally.

    Just me...

     
  11. Bush438 thread starter macrumors member

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    Jul 28, 2007
    #11
    So because 3G isn't available everywhere in the U.S. YET, this isn't a viable option to have considering it's the future? If we all thought like this then new products would never come out.

    As for the wifi, it might be in a lot of places but a lot of those places aren't free, therefore defeating the purpose.

    For a $600 phone that is the future I would think it would have all the latest technologies. It comes close, but still lacks.
     
  12. Sobe macrumors 68000

    Sobe

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    #12
    It's not like Apple promised the world 3G then switched to EDGE at the last minute but the boxes still had 3G printed on them.

    Anyone who is bothered by the speed to the degree that you're going to complain about it is just being silly.

    You purchased an EDGE product.

    This is the product Apple is offering.

    You don't have to like it, you certainly do not have to buy it.

    Even after you bought it, you could return it if you wished.
     
  13. scaredpoet macrumors 604

    scaredpoet

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    Apr 6, 2007
    #13
    It's not a "myth," and you're comparing apples to oranges.

    If you do your homework on Blackberry devices, you'll notice two things:

    1. The 8830 "World" Edition actually doesn't support 3G on GSM networks. It doesn't even support any flavor of GSM in the US for that matter.

    2. To date, Blackberry hasn't developed a 3G GSM/HSPA handset. At all.

    Now, why do you think that is?

    This is because the CDMA networks where 3G is support by the 8830 are a different animal from the GSM derivatives. And incorporating them would take up... you guessed it: too much power, and too much space. And while yes, it SEEMS like the CDMA people get all the fun, there are plenty of disadvantages to CDMA, including the fact that it can, in real-world situations, be somewhat slower than GSM' 3G HSPA. I know, I used CDMA for 7 years, then jumped even before the iPhone dropped.

    Bottom line: Apple wanted a world phone, and they weren't going to get it if it was CDMA-only. they had to choose, and *I* think they chose wisely.

    Even if all things where equal, the 8830 lacks

    - A touch screen,

    - 4/8GB of memory,

    - WiFi, which depending on what it's connected to can be way faster than 3G or even projected 4G in many cases,

    - And the processing power involved in supporting a full web browser, e-mail support without the need to tether to a vast proxy and server farm that RIM maintains on the network side concealed from users' view (but charges an arm and a leg extra for), and all the other nice things we get on the iPhone.

    Do you think the touch screen, WiFi and extra memory alone take up zero space and require no processor power? It all takes up room and resources. In reality, the iPhone simply has to do more than a Blackberry does.

    Lastly, while I can agree that too many people are charging for WiFi access, I should point that many people can obtain WiFi for no extra charge in the two spots that count the most: at home and at work. if they travel, many hotels offer it for free too. EDGE is a good compromise in those palces where you need something quick but can't obtain WiFi, or would rather not pay for it.
     
  14. wako macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    #14


    ROFL


    maybe you should educate yourself before you spill out FUD...

    Processing power to support full web browser? Please, many phones have been doing this for ages before the iPhone was even known. Nokia has been doing this with their browser and a lot of 3rd party software has been made for phones, like the RAZR to be able to support this as well. (Opera mini) Stop believing everything you hear from Steve Jobs and from the TV.

    As for the Email support you truly are ignorant to how much more superior the BlackBerry service/email is compared to that of the iPhone which can be said only with one word, PRIMITIVE. Everything you see on the iPhone for email has been done and if not done better with even a Windows Mobile phone. Can the iPhone get email INSTANTLY without it needing to polling a server every 15 minutes? Can the iPhone sync with your work computer all wirelessly done when you are half way around the world? Can the iPhone set up meetings and appointments and accept them? Can the iPhone retrieve email from CORPORATE email? Can the iPhone retrieve any sort of email other than imap and pop3? Can the iPhone even do any sort of Push email? And most importantly, CAN YOU EVEN COPY AND PASTE YET?! :p And Im only talking about email here....

    iPhone is a great device, dont get me wrong, however the features the iPhone has, has been enjoyed by Windows Mobile and Blackberry users for years. Its just that you guys get a prettier and dumbed down UI to make it easier to use for everyone.

    You guys (including the OP) are ignorant if you are really are trying to compare a business class phone with a consumer class phone. They both have their individual strengths targetted at their specific customers. Literally comparing apples and oranges here.
     
  15. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

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    Location:
    Singapore
    #15
    seeing as tho the iphone would technically be capable of running tiger and leopard i doubt that processing power is an issue.

    this thing has more power than my g3 imac!!!!
     
  16. lavrishevo macrumors 68000

    lavrishevo

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Location:
    NJ
    #16


    Wow so upset and defensive... seems someone has some security issues. :rolleyes: The iPhone was not designed the mobile professional. I being one of them, though personally don't need the constant e-mail. I gave up my 8525 with 3G and other features the iPhone does not have. Now that I have the iPhone though I cannot set it down. Browsing the Internet is fantastic for the sites I go to and no browser on any phone can come close to the iPhones quality and screen. Would be nice to have 3G but I understand why it is not there right now on AT&T’s network. I don't want a dead battery in 2 hours. The e-mail app works great for my needs and most out there. Those that are e-mail crackies should stick with their berries. Don't forget the iPhone JUST came out and its target audience is not the mobile e-mail junkie. To each his own, use what works for you but don't insult people with childish names. If you don't like the iPhone then stick with your berry.

    There is a common human trait that when people attack others they are quite often insecure with themselves and somehow feel the need to boost their own ego or psyche because of their own insecurity. Don't be foolish.
     
  17. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Singapore
    #17
    dont suggest anything you might regret.

    may i remind everyone that the iphone is not set to rival blackberry, nor beat the blackberry, nor any of the other business phones out there 2day. it is there for the consumer market. the iphone is for the young teens who want to look extremely cool and "in" with fashion. it is just a normal fone, that looks really really awsome and has an excellend apple interface and everything else that comes with it.
     
  18. Amblinman macrumors regular

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    Jul 31, 2007
    #18
    This is easily one of the most ignorant statements I've read in a long time. Take away PUSH email, and BB's are just really competent smartphones that don't even compare feature-wise with virtually any other smartphones on the market. You want WiFi? You can't have a camera. You want a camera? No GPS. You want GPS? Sorry, you'll have to wait for it to be unlocked at some point in the future.

    If email is time-sensitive, you're right - nothing compares to a BlackBerry. But that's it. And guess what? RIM's attempt to infiltrate the consumer market went up in smoke the day the iPhone was released.

    THe "dumbed down UI" comment is pretty funny. I mean, it's not technological leap like a miniature trackball, but somehow we manage to muddle through.

    Sorry, but your post reads like some excited BB fanboy. You were right when you said the two devices aren't competing against each other. WHat you don't get is that once other companies start offering PUSH, BlackBerrys aren't going to seem all that special anymore because that's about all they have to offer. Most consumers don't care about getting their email instantly. Just not a big deal.
     
  19. scaredpoet macrumors 604

    scaredpoet

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2007
    #19
    Maybe you should learn about what FUD is before you use the term. :)

    Okay, then show me a RAZR or other 3G phone that can render web pages at least the same way an iPhone can.


    Opera Mini? The pinnacle of java slowness and instability? :D Yeah, a real contender there. Slows to a crawl on any decent web page, forgets login cookies like there's no tomorrow, and unstable as all hell. Good one. :)

    Now we see where you're coming from, the Opera camp, who have been spewing REAL marketing FUD for a while now about the iPhone. Pot, kettle, black, anyone?
     
  20. plumbingandtech macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    #20
    If Apple Can Do It, Why Can't Blackberry?


    If Apple can create the most advanced and largest and highest rez touch screen on the phone market why can't BB?

    If Apple can create the easiest smart phone on the planet why can't BB?

    If Apple can create the best portable tv show and movie playing device on the planet why can't BB?

    If Apple can create the best syncing phone for the mac why can't BB?

    If Apple can create the easiest MP3 player on the planet why can't BB?

    If Apple can create the best mobile browser on the planet BAR NONE why can't BB?

    Wait Windows mobile does all the of above?

    My iphone is DOOMED!
     
  21. JimmyDreams macrumors 6502

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    Jul 24, 2007
    #21
    Ya know, Sobe...it's logic like THAT this is in short supply nowadays.:mad:

    JimmyD
    :apple::apple::apple::apple:
     
  22. wako macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    #22


    congradulations... you know nothing about blackberries yet you continue to speak...


    If you honestly think BlackBerries are simply JUST ABOUT Push email you really know nothing about them.


    And Opera Mini is actually pretty stable. It is able to render webpages just as easily. And where you might see the RAZR that is able to render webpages just like Opera? With Opera Mini. You (scaredpoet) obviously havent used the more up to date versions...
     
  23. bostonte macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    #23
    To get back on topic..

    Have you looked at Cingular's 3G coverage? Its nowhere near ready for a large product launch to depend on - I live and work in major cities and rarely hit a city that has it.

    Historically Apple has pushed things they had control over (I.e. Removing ports to not have legacy). But getting 3G coverage isnt as simple as swapping some printers and scanners.

    Apple made a wise business decision (ignoring the size and battery issues) to launch an experience that is the same for all customers for their first entry. Now with V2, the story may be different as the network may be expanded and/or Apple will have more negotiating room to push hard for accelerating expansion.

    Remember, first phone by a nonphone company. Even for Steve Jobs there's only so much AT&T would do for an untested product aimed at a different niche than most phones.
     
  24. megfilmworks macrumors 68020

    megfilmworks

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    Location:
    Sherman Oaks
    #24
    I need Wifi, didn't need it before iDay, but now I would never give up WiFi for 3g, a slow and pricey service. And a real keyboard? Dated is the word that comes to mine.
     
  25. Okiewan, Aug 19, 2007
    Last edited: May 15, 2013

    Okiewan macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    #25
    Someone help me out here...

    1) Why are BB'ers all over iPhone forums trying to justify their devices?

    2) Why is everyone so anal about their FREAKING PHONES? It's a PHONE.

    3) Why does someone with the "Greatest Phone Ever" care at ALL about what others think about their phone?
    do boi nam dep quan ao nu tat so sinh ao so mi cong so ao so mi cong so chup anh su kien
    4) Wouldn't you guys do better to go out and get some sun... maybe some life?
     

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