If the kindle fire works out anything like the original kindle

[NateJamesMeyers]

then the iPad is seriously screwed. Think about it. The original kindle was WAY overpriced, klunky, ugly as all heck, and really couldn't do much. But in just a few years it ruled a market that it was NOT the first entry into. Now the kindle fire seems the same way. It's not so perfect yet (not even close if we're being honest). But amazon has already taken over the e-reader market so they know what they're doing!

the iPads not going anywhere, but possibly in a few years owning an iPad will be like walking around with a sony reader... overpriced and it can't do anything extra...

 

[MacDawg]

I respectfully disagree

 

[NateJamesMeyers]

I respectfully disagree

You're not allowed to disagree without a supporting argument! come on! lets make this discussion actually go somewhere besides the usual apple fanboi vs android fanboi argument!

 

[iphone1105]

the iPads not going anywhere, but possibly in a few years owning an iPad will be like walking around with a sony reader... overpriced and it can't do anything extra...

Can I have some of the weed you smoke?

Let me know when i can use my kindle fire w/ 3g or 4g instead of being hindered by wifi only! Also let me know when I can store 64gb worth of stuff on it.....

 

[NateJamesMeyers]

Let me know when i can use my kindle fire w/ 3g or 4g instead of being hindered by wifi only! Also let me know when I can store 64gb worth of stuff on it.....

Amazon is pretty good at getting us unlimited free 3g, at least for some uses.

 

[MacDawg]

There is a market for both
There is some overlap, but they have different target audiences
The Kindle Fire is not an iPad replacement or even competitor IMO

The iPad is a much more complete device

 

[vrDrew]

Anything is possible. But I think the scenario you describe is unlikely.

The Kindle gained a significant, but not dominant, share of the e-reader market by a combination of price drops and promotion from the leading seller of books in the world. For them to repeat that feat in the broader consumer electronics/computer market, going up against an almost unchallenged leader seems improbable.

Kindle Fire will sell decent quantities, but the early reviews of the device are not good. Amazon's market for it is going to be limited because their business model requires it be sold in countries where Amazon has a digital marketplace (fewer countries than you might think), and it would be economically disastrous for them to try and match Apple's product refresh cycle. (If you are hoping to use digital sales to recoup your subsidy, you need to have consumers hold on to the device they have for long enough for them to buy a large quantity of merchandise.

 

[palpatine]

then it will be a niche device appealing to a certain segment of the population. of course, it is not an ereader, but a quasi tablet on the shelf next to other tablets with truly mind boggling capabilities. so, expect to see the kids with kindle fires and the adults with ipads

 

[NateJamesMeyers]

The iPad is a much more complete device

This is where I get confused.

There was this tech expert on the radio talking about the kindle fire, "The kindle fire is just a glorified kindle, all it can do is books, movies, apps, games, music, and internet."

And I was like.. well.. isn't that all the iPad does?

 

[iphone1105]

Amazon is pretty good at getting us unlimited free 3g, at least for some uses.

yeah, to download paultry sized ebooks....let me know when they throw in a 3g/4g ship so I can upload my work docs to the cloude while i am on the road. Or watch my Netflix titles as I am on the subway. Your argument back was whack, it has no 3G....what next bro?

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This is where I get confused.

There was this tech expert on the radio talking about the kindle fire, "The kindle fire is just a glorified kindle, all it can do is books, movies, apps, games, music, and internet."

And I was like.. well.. isn't that all the iPad does?

I can create word doc's, read and edit excel docs, edit my keynote presentations. Hell I can even edit my videos I make on vacations with my girl or the family and friends. I can create with my iPad fun little things, tiny projects, with the kindle fire, I dunno....good luck trying though i'm sure there's something

 

[davedvdy]

then the iPad is seriously screwed. Think about it. The original kindle was WAY overpriced, klunky, ugly as all heck, and really couldn't do much. But in just a few years it ruled a market that it was NOT the first entry into. Now the kindle fire seems the same way. It's not so perfect yet (not even close if we're being honest). But amazon has already taken over the e-reader market so they know what they're doing!

the iPads not going anywhere, but possibly in a few years owning an iPad will be like walking around with a sony reader... overpriced and it can't do anything extra...

The Kindle Fire: Barely any storage, limited selection of apps, laggy as hell browser, mediocre touch response screen. The Nook Tablet wipes the floor with it, IMHO.

No, its not an iPad killer, and when the iPad 3 comes out there will be an even thicker gap separating the two as if its not big enough.

 

[NateJamesMeyers]

yeah, to download paultry sized ebooks....let me know when they throw in a 3g/4g ship so I can upload my work docs to the cloude while i am on the road. Or watch my Netflix titles as I am on the subway. Your argument back was whack, it has no 3G....what next bro?

There's a lot of arguments I could use here. None you would listen to though. Get a wifi card, tether it to you phone (all of these cost less than a 3g ipad)

You kinda took this off topic though. I already stated that the current kindle fire is far from perfect. If amazon reuses their previous strategy with the kindle of Huge improvements in future generations of the kindle fire then I believe that the iPad is in trouble.

You don't seem to get this so i'm going to reiterate. I'm arguing for the FUTURE of the fire, not the present.

Of course there is the guy up there ^vrDrew^ that made the brilliant observation that because of amazons profit strategy with the fire they will probably not be able to have a yearly refresh rate. That makes a lot of sense. Only time will tell if that rings true

 

[vrDrew]

Of course there is the guy up there ^^ that made the brilliant observation that because of amazons profit strategy with the fire they will probably not be able to have a yearly refresh rate. That makes a lot of sense. Only time will tell if that rings true

Why do you think Subsidized mobile phone contracts typically last eighteen months to two years? It's for precisely that reason. The mobile carriers subsidize the handset, and they need customers using the same phone for long enough to recoup the subsidy.

The Fire doesn't have a contract, so in order for Amazon's business strategy to work, they've got to be careful NOT to encourage their customers to replace their tablet every six months. Amazon is hoping to use the Fire to sell e-books and movies. Not the other way around.

 

[Buckeyestar]

You don't seem to get this so i'm going to reiterate. I'm arguing for the FUTURE of the fire, not the present.

You're conveniently ignoring the future of the iPad.

 

[NateJamesMeyers]

You're conveniently ignoring the future of the iPad.

Ignoring a large part of a counter argument wouldn't help me at all. I was going off of amazons usual huge leaps vs apples last improvement which was not exactly the biggest thing ever.

Just wanted to state my prediction I suppose, I see now this thread can't really go anywhere.

 

[iphone1105]

There's a lot of arguments I could use here. None you would listen to though. Get a wifi card, tether it to you phone (all of these cost less than a 3g ipad)

You kinda took this off topic though. I already stated that the current kindle fire is far from perfect. If amazon reuses their previous strategy with the kindle of Huge improvements in future generations of the kindle fire then I believe that the iPad is in trouble.

You don't seem to get this so i'm going to reiterate. I'm arguing for the FUTURE of the fire, not the present.

Of course there is the guy up there ^vrDrew^ that made the brilliant observation that because of amazons profit strategy with the fire they will probably not be able to have a yearly refresh rate. That makes a lot of sense. Only time will tell if that rings true

so you want to carry around multiple devices just so it has constant internet access? you want to add more to it, to make it work? that seems silly no? So I have to carry around, my phone, my mifi and my kindle fire? you may want to carry all that crap around, i'll just take the one. You have math to back up it's cheaper? either way you're paying for another data plan, and now a mifi on top of it????

You're arguing for the future, yet you have no clue what they'll do, on the flipside, the iPad has a future too, its not staying this way forever. They both will change with future versions, but right now the ipad is better.

I'd love to debate, it's my fav part of these forums, don't act like i won't/don't understand. I'm all for fun banter. Give me valid arguments, don't tell me I won't be interested in them and dismiss it.

And I haven't derailed the thread, I'm offering facts to what's some major differences between the two devices.

 

[Night Spring]

Ignoring a large part of a counter argument wouldn't help me at all. I was going off of amazons usual huge leaps vs apples last improvement which was not exactly the biggest thing ever.

"Usual huge leaps"? I beg to differ. Sure, Kindle 2 was a vast improvement over the ugly and clunky Kindle 1. After that, the improvements have been incremental rather than "leaps." Heck, Amazon was late with touch screen e-readers, both Barnes&Noble and Kobo beat them to it. B&N's Nook Color, although marketed as an ereader rather than a tablet, was around for a year before the Fire.

In other words, Amazon's success with the Kindle hardware is so far a one-off. Apple, on the other hand, has a long history of successful hardware innovation, starting with the original Apple II computer, then the Mac, then the iPod, and now the iPhone and iPad. So IMO, Amazon has a way to go before they can be considered a credible threat hardwarewise to Apple products. Now, with digital retailing, they are arguably ahead. It's going to be interesting over the next few years to watch these two companies compete, coming as they do from totally opposite directions.

 

[Buildbright]

Well you forgot the part where the Kindle Fire is a horrible device in its current state.

But honestly do you think Hyundai is going to put Mercedes or BMW out of business? The iPad is the best tablet to date by far.

Secondly don't forget Amazon only makes money on the Fire when people buy content or shop on Amazon from it. Apple makes money both ways, and people who buy iPads are more likely to spend greater amounts of money in the Apple App store in comparison. Amazon does not have the cash or the reserves to compete with Apple on a prestige product. Amazon can make a cheaper budget tablet but it will never be an Ipad killer.

 

[Ubuntu]

then the iPad is seriously screwed. Think about it. The original kindle was WAY overpriced, klunky, ugly as all heck, and really couldn't do much. But in just a few years it ruled a market that it was NOT the first entry into. Now the kindle fire seems the same way. It's not so perfect yet (not even close if we're being honest). But amazon has already taken over the e-reader market so they know what they're doing!

the iPads not going anywhere, but possibly in a few years owning an iPad will be like walking around with a sony reader... overpriced and it can't do anything extra...

How was the market when the first Kindle was released? Was there a big player with serious commitment to the market or was it just a few companies who treated readers like a side project?

My point is, if it's the former then this is a totally different situation. Amazon became that big company and market leader of the ereader market, did they dethrone another company in the process? I honestly don't know but I doubt there was a company that serious and dedicated in the ebook reader market before Amazon released the Kindle.

And look, Amazon isn't even taking on the iPad. They've been quite smart here. Instead of just trying to compete head on with the iPad they're actually going for the areas in the market the iPad does not cover, because quite a few people still want the extra portability that a 7 inch tablet gives.

 

[eq2675]

I own both a Kindle Fire and iPad first gen with AT&T. Both purchased new.

The Fire outperforms the iPad in one area for sure. The Fire supports Flash Cookies. Many financial institutions use Flash Cookies to authenticate user logins.

I can login to Bank of America, even using SafePass, with the Fire. It's a no go with the iPad unless I RDP in to my desktop PC first.

 

[goosnarrggh]

I own both a Kindle Fire and iPad first gen with AT&T. Both purchased new.

The Fire outperforms the iPad in one area for sure. The Fire supports Flash Cookies. Many financial institutions use Flash Cookies to authenticate user logins.

I can login to Bank of America, even using SafePass, with the Fire. It's a no go with the iPad unless I RDP in to my desktop PC first.

Bank of America has an iOS App you can use on your iPad.

But I gotta say, I hate the concept of having to download a whole separate app in order to do something that ought to be perfectly suited to a web browser.

 

[Blakjack]

Two tablets existing with two different motives. The markets aren't the same. Kindle fires sales will slow down drastically after Christmas. First quarter sales will look horrific come April. Many people will return these tablets. They are cheap, but they absolutely suck when it comes to end user experience.

 

[iphone1105]

I own both a Kindle Fire and iPad first gen with AT&T. Both purchased new.

The Fire outperforms the iPad in one area for sure. The Fire supports Flash Cookies. Many financial institutions use Flash Cookies to authenticate user logins.

I can login to Bank of America, even using SafePass, with the Fire. It's a no go with the iPad unless I RDP in to my desktop PC first.

You can't access BOA via Safari on the iPad. I have no issues, I am on the site daily transfering and checking my balances, etc...unless I am missing something....

 

[Mac.World]

There's a lot of arguments I could use here. None you would listen to though. Get a wifi card, tether it to you phone (all of these cost less than a 3g ipad)

You kinda took this off topic though. I already stated that the current kindle fire is far from perfect. If amazon reuses their previous strategy with the kindle of Huge improvements in future generations of the kindle fire then I believe that the iPad is in trouble.

You don't seem to get this so i'm going to reiterate. I'm arguing for the FUTURE of the fire, not the present.

Of course there is the guy up there ^vrDrew^ that made the brilliant observation that because of amazons profit strategy with the fire they will probably not be able to have a yearly refresh rate. That makes a lot of sense. Only time will tell if that rings true

If you think stock holders are going to accept 200-300 million dollar losses per quarter on a glorified ereader, you are out of your mind. Unless every buyer of a Fire spends a lot of cash on Amazon content, don't expect the Fire to continue.
This first quarter was bound to attract 2-3 million buyers because of the Amazon name, but now that people are actually dealing with this POS and seeing how pathetic it really is, the negative reviews and returns will effect sales starting January. You can anticipate a huge drop in buyers for Q2. Which means a lot of stock going no where, which means an even larger loss in Q2. Couple that with the release of iPad3 in Q2 and we'll see critical mass reached and the 7" Fire dropped entirely by Q3. Amazon will attempt to apply a turnicate to halt the bleeding with a larger version of the Fire with a new form factor and more capabilities, but the rise in price will mean that Android competitors will snatch more sales. If Amazon doesn't raise pricing, they will lose even more money.
It's really a no win situation for Amazon. If anything, you'll see them either out of the tablet game entirely or subjected to accepting a small piece of the already small Android pie.

 

[eq2675]

Bank of America has an iOS App you can use on your iPad.

But I gotta say, I hate the concept of having to download a whole separate app in order to do something that ought to be perfectly suited to a web browser.

You can not view My Portfolio or perform several other tasks on the iPad app with Safepass when compaired to BoA's online web site.

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You can't access BOA via Safari on the iPad. I have no issues, I am on the site daily transfering and checking my balances, etc...unless I am missing something....

Turn on SafePass and you are screwed with the iPad on BoA's site. Why SafePass? Google "Regulation E" for businesses and you will see that a business has ZERO Federal protection from electronic fraud. I'm not putting all my financial data on My Portfolio without SafePass.