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If the new MBP has no ODD, what happens to Air?

theluggage said:
...the real issue, though, is that while WiFi or a USB-to-Ethernet dongle are fine for web browsing and email (and are probably faster than your broadband) they are simply no replacement for a gigabit Ethernet port. If you want to access large files over a local network they just don't cut the mustard (1Gbps from Ethernet vs. 300Mbps from Wireless-N with pigs on the wing and tap-dancing mermaids, or 480Mbps from USB 2 downhill with the wind behind it and the gods smiling).
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USB 3.0 (which is predicted to be on their new line) makes gigabit USB ethernet feasible and inexpensive (at least in theory). Apple could even throw the adapter in the box, just like they do with the HDMI -> DVI adapter in the Mac Mini's box.

Moreover, how much time do people actually spend copying (as opposed to accessing) huge files on their local network? Some of my video files are up to 40 GB in size, but I don't spend time copying them to and fro. When I watch them, they stream just fine over wireless N. After all, I don't need the last bit of a 2-hour movie on my computer until 1:59 after I started watching it.
 
jgc said:
But who knows. I think that if the 13" Pro was slimmed with a lack of ODD, it's getting Air-like. Put in an SSD instead of an HDD and the differences are starting to fade away. I think that they should slightly lower the Air's price point and toss a quad-core i5 in the Pro (standard) and raise the price. Then the differences would be sufficient. But if they really do slim the 13" Pro, lose the ODD, replace HDDs with SSDs while keeping dual-core processors, the Air and Pro overlap way too much.
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Yeah I agree absolutely with this point. If Apple are to keep a 13" Pro, and I think we can safely say the slimmer and ssd rumours are true given Bloomberg and ABC reported it then it needs to be overhauled otherwise there will be too much overlap. It all depends on what Apple want to do, and that's where opinions differ naturally given how unpredictable they can be.

I guess we will find out in 9 days time. Regardless of what happens I'll be getting the new 13" model!
 
PVisitors said:
Yeah I agree absolutely with this point. If Apple are to keep a 13" Pro, and I think we can safely say the slimmer and ssd rumours are true given Bloomberg and ABC reported it then it needs to be overhauled otherwise there will be too much overlap. It all depends on what Apple want to do, and that's where opinions differ naturally given how unpredictable they can be.

I guess we will find out in 9 days time. Regardless of what happens I'll be getting the new 13" model!
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Yeah. Hopefully with this predicted overlap, they find a way to truly distinguish the lines. As it stands the 13" Air is for me, but a slimmer 13" Pro could easily change my mind. 9 days indeed. Can't wait. It'll be my first Mac laptop anyways so I'm sure I'll be thrilled regardless.
 
bozz2006 said:
More arbitrary changes have been made than this. In 2008 when the aluminum unibodies came out, the 13" was called a MacBook. Then, months later, that same computer was rebranded a MacBook Pro.
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Yes. I am the "proud" owner of one of those late 2008 aluminum MacBooks. In fact, I am typing this on it. It has been great machine that received new life when I upgraded it to 8 gigs of RAM. I have to admit, I was a bit miffed when the change occurred shortly after I bought it but it turned out to be a non-issue..
 
jburns said:
Yes. I am the "proud" owner of one of those late 2008 aluminum MacBooks. In fact, I am typing this on it. It has been great machine that received new life when I upgraded it to 8 gigs of RAM. I have to admit, I was a bit miffed when the change occurred shortly after I bought it but it turned out to be a non-issue..
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Proud owner here too! "Limited Edition Aluminum Macbook".:D I bought mine on release day. Just put an SSD in it a few weeks ago. It got a whole new lease on life. Just shy of 4 years old and still running strong!
 
bozz2006 said:
Proud owner here too! "Limited Edition Aluminum Macbook".:D I bought mine on release day. Just put an SSD in it a few weeks ago. It got a whole new lease on life. Just shy of 4 years old and still running strong!
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Yep. I can't complain about the cost versus value at all. Zero issues in, as you say, almost four years. I'm not going the SSD route. I find that I cant even think fast enough to keep up with what I've got.

I wonder if computers secretly communicate about their owners like we do on here.
"My owner takes 30 seconds to click a simple yes/no choice"

"I feel so sorry for you. It might be time for you to fake a failure so he will trade you in."

"I don't know. Going the refurb route can be a real crap shoot. I could end up with someone even slower."
 
I expect the following:

11" & 13" Air models are upgraded and rebranded as simply "MacBook". There is such a minor difference in performance between the 13" Pro and Air models that without ports to differentiate the two, keeping them both would be redundant. Besides, the 13" Pro had little in common with the other models anyway.

15" & 17" Pro models remain "MacBook Pro". They will be as thin as the Air at its thickest point and will not taper.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a price drop of $100 or more in the Pro line, similar to what we saw when the Mac Mini lost its ODD. This would also make it more palatable to buyers who wanted a 13" Pro and are hesitant to get the new MacBook version.
 
NewbieCanada said:
USB 3.0 (which is predicted to be on their new line) makes gigabit USB ethernet feasible and inexpensive
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That's one possible solution - if the new models have USB 3 (likely, but I wouldn't bet more than I could afford to lose). It might even be bearable if some of the mock-ups are true and Apple have managed to squeeze in a third USB3 port.

Apple could even throw the adapter in the box, just like they do with the HDMI -> DVI adapter in the Mac Mini's box.
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...and just like they don't throw in the MiniDP to VGA or DVI adapters in with the current MacBooks. The Mini is a special case because of its "bring your own monitor" support. Oh, and HDMI to DVI is a "passive" adapter (i.e. just a re-wiring job) - there's no electronics involved.

Moreover, how much time do people actually spend copying (as opposed to accessing) huge files on their local network?
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If they're just consumers watching video in formats that are designed to be streamed over WiFi from a media server then maybe not much. An Air will suit them nicely.

If, however, you're working in a team who need to share files regularly and maybe use a network-mounted drive as your working directory, if you're creating videos and want to back up the results, if you have multiple machines and want to keep them "in sync", or copy big files from virtual windows or linux machines around... then you might buy a laptop with "pro" in the name and expect it to have the basics like gigabit ethernet.

Some people might say the same about optical drives, but there are lots of viable alternatives for their various uses (software downloads, USB sticks, DropBox, external HDs) and, frankly, they always were a kludge and ripe for a kick from Apple to consign them to history. I can live with an external optical drive that spends most of its life in a nice, dust-free cupboard (and, therefore, stays in working order, unlike the drives in laptops).

However, someone needs to invent Gigabit WiFi before Ethernet is ready for the same treatment.
 
Mak47 said:
I expect the following:

11" & 13" Air models are upgraded and rebranded as simply "MacBook". There is such a minor difference in performance between the 13" Pro and Air models that without ports to differentiate the two, keeping them both would be redundant. Besides, the 13" Pro had little in common with the other models anyway.
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Marketing and branding failure. To consumers Macbook means the larger white or black laptop with an optical drive. Developing brand awareness cost a lot of money. There's no benefit to dropping the Air from the name
 
AppleMacFinder said:
MBP 2011 has 450 Mbps WiFi. Not bad ;)
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Call me if you actually achieve that in real-world conditions. Yes, I know that 1GB Ethernet doesn't equal 125 MBytes/s file transfer either, but at least it doesn't vary depending on sunspots, how many people have WiFi in your street, where your antenna is or whether your neighbour is microwaving a chicken.

Even when the mermaids are doing their "singin' in the rain" routine during a porcine fly-past and you're , that's still only half as fast as Ethernet.

Meanwhile, even Gigabit Ethernet is hardly bleeding edge - there are such things as 10 and 100 Gigabit Ethernet...
 
Mojo1 said:
My primary concern is that the 13" MBP will get the same display as the MBA.

If that happens I'll be buying a previous-generation MBP...
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Is this because of the low color gamut display on the Air? This is the reason why I choose the 13" pro even though I really really wanted screen real estate. Im an amateur photographer and to me the color difference is night and day. Higher clockspeed and ram upgradability was also a plus over the air.
 
Considering latest rumors of 2012 MBPs moving towards...

  • Removing ODD
  • Flash memory
  • No Ethernet or Firewire ports
  • Slimmer case

... Then the differentiation of MBP vs MBA becomes redundant. If those rumors are correct, a hybrid Macbook line all the way from 11" to 17" seems plausible to me.
 
i would find it funny if they did remove the odd then with in a few months they put it back in as the sales of the computers went down do to it not being there as they thought people did not use them anymore and could have got the usb odd but they actually wanted it in the machine as that made it more compact and less complicated
 
If the Air back in 2010 had had a way to buy with 8GB of RAM, or upgrade to that, I would have bought the 13" one back then. 4GB is too little for me since I have need to occasionally run Windows in virtualization. I've never been able to read my work email when traveling under Mac OSX.

Though my overall usage of Windows has gone down since then, what with Crossover to run my Quicken, and Office 2011.
 
KohPhiPhi said:
... Then the differentiation of MBP vs MBA becomes redundant. If those rumors are correct, a hybrid Macbook line all the way from 11" to 17" seems plausible to me.
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You're missing some other distinguishing factors:
  • HD Size - the SSD in the Air line maxes out at 256G, which won't do if you're in to video, want to use BootCamp or have several Virtual Machines. The HD in the Pro line starts at 500G, with a 720GB option - but you can have a 512GB SSD for a mere $1100... (even third party you're going to be looking at the thick end of $1000). sensible config for a Pro would be a hybrid drive or space for a small form-factor SSD for the system and a HD for user files.
  • Graphics - the 15" Pro and upwards have discrete AMD graphics processors. That's a big distinction for gamers and graphics pros, and means they can run 2 x 27" Displays.
  • USB Ports - some of the rumour mock-ups showed a third USB port which would partly balance the need to use USB for Ethernet and Optical. That's a possible Pr-vs-air distinction.
  • Thunderbolt ports - If they drop FW and Ethernet, the Pros better have two of these, especially with not all TB devices offering a daisy-chain port.

I think there will still be a clear distinction between the 15" pro and the 11" & 13" Airs. The debate is whether the 13" Pro stays or goes, and whether the 17" gets a re-design, a speed bump or nothing. My guess is that they'll keep the 17" largely unchanged for another 6 months or so as a safety net. It's already positively skinny for a 17" machine.
 
Last edited:
"...the real issue, though, is that while WiFi or a USB-to-Ethernet dongle are fine for web browsing and email (and are probably faster than your broadband) they are simply no replacement for a gigabit Ethernet port. If you want to access large files over a local network they just don't cut the mustard (1Gbps from Ethernet vs. 300Mbps from Wireless-N with pigs on the wing and tap-dancing mermaids, or 480Mbps from USB 2 downhill with the wind behind it and the gods smiling)."

You're not taking into consideration that the new Mac laptops are almost certainly going to be equipped with USB3 (and not USB2). That will provide enough port speed to use a USB-to-gigabit Ethernet adapter...
 
1+1 does not always equal 2. There is no guarantee that the sales of a merged 13" laptop would come anywhere close to those of separate Airs and Pros.
 
nuckinfutz said:
Marketing and branding failure. To consumers Macbook means the larger white or black laptop with an optical drive. Developing brand awareness cost a lot of money. There's no benefit to dropping the Air from the name
Click to expand...

I'd have to disagree. If anything the "Air" moniker creates the impression that it is somehow different from a "regular" MacBook. Either that it is super thin at the expense of performance, or that it is some kind of premium variety. Most consumers want to buy the middle of the road option when it comes to electronics of any sort. The Air designation indicates that it is not in the middle of the road.

I can also see Apple considering this the "normalization" of the line. While other companies are selling Ultrabooks and marketing them as something special, Apple simply calling it the MacBook says that this is what should be expected from a standard notebook in 2012.
 
Time Less said:
Is this because of the low color gamut display on the Air? This is the reason why I choose the 13" pro even though I really really wanted screen real estate. Im an amateur photographer and to me the color difference is night and day. Higher clockspeed and ram upgradability was also a plus over the air.
Click to expand...

It wasn't because of the color gamut difference, but I do appreciate it being a pro photographer. (I actually do critical color work on an external NEC display because no portable Mac display really cuts it for serious image editing...)

I demoed an 11" MBA for 1.5 hours soon after the current models were introduced. Within the first 15 minutes I developed a headache. I had serious eyestrain symptoms for over eight hours. I attribute my problems to the LED backlight; I'm not alone in my misery...

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/1677617?start=0&tstart=0

The 13" MBP also gave me fits in the beginning but it wasn't as bad as the MBA. I was able to mitigate most of the problems using a calibration scheme and other suggestions from the referenced Apple forum discussion. I use a Power Support anti-glare film to eliminate reflections.
 
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