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If this is true- what does it mean for Apple TV?

Topfry said:
Hard to know what the future for the Apple TV will be when you read articles like this:

https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/06/samsungs-2019-smart-tv-itunes-airplay-2/?guccounter=1

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/6/18170797/samsung-2019-tvs-itunes-support-airplay-2


Reportedly also going to include google assistant?!?
What does it all mean, basically?
Click to expand...
If you read the article closely, and the article it is linked to, you'll see that it's an iTunes app. Now, what I want to know is who is designing that app, Apple or Samsung? If it's Samsung, then will the traffic for the app run through Samsung servers? Will my iTunes credentials be seen by Samsung? Are they going to track my iTunes viewing habits? What information will Samsung see while using this iTunes app?

Samsung will have to answer a lot of questions before I'd be willing to log into my iTunes account via their app.
 
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Yes exactly - but the bombshell is an opened up app store ( whether only an app or device built by apple) surely this is like a nail in the apple hardware coffin?
 
This is Apple setting itself up as a phone and services company. They have dramatically increased their services revenue over the past couple years, this has happened as much of their non-iPhone HW revenue has declined or stagnated.

With the iPhone now showing signs of slowing growth, Apple is looking to expand other revenue sources, like services and wearables. While HW that has made Apple what it is today, Mac, Displays, ATV, iPad, iPod, is basically put on the back burner or forgotten.

IMO, this isn't a good thing for tvOS and the ATV.

Apple has already neglected the ATV, especially with advertising. When was the last time you saw an ATV commercial on TV? Compare that to the last time you saw an AW, iPhone, AirPods, or Mac Book ad.
 
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vertical smile said:
This is Apple setting itself up as a phone and services company. They have dramatically increased their services revenue over the past couple years, this has happened as much of their non-iPhone HW revenue has declined or stagnated.

With the iPhone now showing signs of slowing growth, Apple is looking to expand other revenue sources, like services and wearables. While HW that has made Apple what it is today, Mac, Displays, ATV, iPad, iPod, is basically put on the back burner or forgotten.

IMO, this isn't a good thing for tvOS and the ATV.

Apple has already neglected the ATV, especially with advertising. When was the last time you saw an ATV commercial on TV? Compare that to the last time you saw an AW, iPhone, AirPods, or Mac Book ad.
Click to expand...
I agree its a great thing for tvos - atv not so much.
 
I don't see it as a problem for the Apple TV. Maybe it's more of a niche, it's beautiful and it's got life in it.
The Samdung weird thing is obviously because of Apple Services and makes way for the new Apple Streaming service.
What I do have to ask is would you be happy using your valuable Apple I.D. and password - the same one for your Mac, iPhone, EVERYTHING on a sub standard operating system that is highly open to hackers such as a Samdung TV OS?

Does the Samdung offer the ATV experience? Is it's processor as capable as the A10X and A12Biomic in the next ATV? Does it offer Auto Frame Rate switching? Atmos? Dolby Vision? Apple's UI? Apple's beautiful subtitles design? Will it have enough power to stream an iTunes 4K film flawlessly? Will it be a poor user experience and enrage Samdung fanboys to hate Apple even more?

At the end of the day, I guess it's all about multi platform - just like my reason for ditching DVD/BluRay in 2010 to make way for iTunes Films - I wanted to watch my film in HD on my MacBook, my iPhone and on my TV in the lounge - I guess Apple are doing the same for their streaming service BUT it's risky. Is it watering down the Apple ecosystem? Time will tell.

Of course the Apple TV offers a far nicer experience and that's why many prefer to watch Netflix, Amazon, RedBull, World Surf League and everything else on the ATV rather than from a TV's built in Apps etc.

BUT, what a shame and a terrible lack of integrity that Apple picks the company that it constantly fights with, and focuses its adverts on taking the p*ss out of Apple and its iPhone. Samdung is probably the least ethical and most indecent tech company out there - it's the McDonalds of the tech industry. I never thought that i'd see this but I guess it shows us that business has zero morals, integrity, trust and operates for the pleasure only of money and shareholders. Thank God that's not me and never has been.

Samsung? Thank you, i'd rather not.
[doublepost=1546807357][/doublepost]
Topfry said:
Yes exactly - but the bombshell is an opened up app store ( whether only an app or device built by apple) surely this is like a nail in the apple hardware coffin?
Click to expand...

No it's not. It's just putting Apple's streaming service out there. They need to make lots of money from it to please their controlling shareholders and bankers. That's capitalism for you. Sell you soul and the devil will come for it.
 
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BODYBUILDERPAUL said:
I don't see it as a problem for the Apple TV. Maybe it's more of a niche, it's beautiful and it's got life in it.
The Samdung weird thing is obviously because of Apple Services and makes way for the new Apple Streaming service.
What I do have to ask is would you be happy using your valuable Apple I.D. and password - the same one for your Mac, iPhone, EVERYTHING on a sub standard operating system that is highly open to hackers such as a Samdung TV OS?

Does the Samdung offer the ATV experience? Is it's processor as capable as the A10X and A12Biomic in the next ATV? Does it offer Auto Frame Rate switching? Atmos? Dolby Vision? Apple's UI? Apple's beautiful subtitles design? Will it have enough power to stream an iTunes 4K film flawlessly? Will it be a poor user experience and enrage Samdung fanboys to hate Apple even more?

At the end of the day, I guess it's all about multi platform - just like my reason for ditching DVD/BluRay in 2010 to make way for iTunes Films - I wanted to watch my film in HD on my MacBook, my iPhone and on my TV in the lounge - I guess Apple are doing the same for their streaming service BUT it's risky. Is it watering down the Apple ecosystem? Time will tell.

Of course the Apple TV offers a far nicer experience and that's why many prefer to watch Netflix, Amazon, RedBull, World Surf League and everything else on the ATV rather than from a TV's built in Apps etc.

BUT, what a shame and a terrible lack of integrity that Apple picks the company that it constantly fights with, and focuses its adverts on taking the p*ss out of Apple and its iPhone. Samdung is probably the least ethical and most indecent tech company out there - it's the McDonalds of the tech industry. I never thought that i'd see this but I guess it shows us that business has zero morals, integrity, trust and operates for the pleasure only of money and shareholders. Thank God that's not me and never has been.

Samsung? Thank you, i'd rather not.
[doublepost=1546807357][/doublepost]

No it's not. It's just putting Apple's streaming service out there. They need to make lots of money from it to please their controlling shareholders and bankers. That's capitalism for you. Sell you soul and the devil will come for it.
Click to expand...
Sorry meant to type “opened up video streaming” - not something I could have imagined during Jobs tenure
 
Stop freaking out. Apple TV is there to stay. The App Store for tvOS has hundred of thousand of apps, more than any other TV platform. Cable providers and content providers like HBO have apps there, where they do not in some proprietary smart TV OSes.
AirPlay 2 on TVs is simply added convenience for people who do not want an Apple TV because they already have an Xbox for example or because they live in a household where some people have iOS and Android devices so it would be pointless to have an Apple TV.
No one ever bought a $200 Apple TV only for iTunes Movies.
[doublepost=1546831151][/doublepost]
BODYBUILDERPAUL said:
I don't see it as a problem for the Apple TV. Maybe it's more of a niche, it's beautiful and it's got life in it.
The Samdung weird thing is obviously because of Apple Services and makes way for the new Apple Streaming service.
What I do have to ask is would you be happy using your valuable Apple I.D. and password - the same one for your Mac, iPhone, EVERYTHING on a sub standard operating system that is highly open to hackers such as a Samdung TV OS?

Does the Samdung offer the ATV experience? Is it's processor as capable as the A10X and A12Biomic in the next ATV? Does it offer Auto Frame Rate switching? Atmos? Dolby Vision? Apple's UI? Apple's beautiful subtitles design? Will it have enough power to stream an iTunes 4K film flawlessly? Will it be a poor user experience and enrage Samdung fanboys to hate Apple even more?

At the end of the day, I guess it's all about multi platform - just like my reason for ditching DVD/BluRay in 2010 to make way for iTunes Films - I wanted to watch my film in HD on my MacBook, my iPhone and on my TV in the lounge - I guess Apple are doing the same for their streaming service BUT it's risky. Is it watering down the Apple ecosystem? Time will tell.

Of course the Apple TV offers a far nicer experience and that's why many prefer to watch Netflix, Amazon, RedBull, World Surf League and everything else on the ATV rather than from a TV's built in Apps etc.

BUT, what a shame and a terrible lack of integrity that Apple picks the company that it constantly fights with, and focuses its adverts on taking the p*ss out of Apple and its iPhone. Samdung is probably the least ethical and most indecent tech company out there - it's the McDonalds of the tech industry. I never thought that i'd see this but I guess it shows us that business has zero morals, integrity, trust and operates for the pleasure only of money and shareholders. Thank God that's not me and never has been.

Samsung? Thank you, i'd rather not.
[doublepost=1546807357][/doublepost]

No it's not. It's just putting Apple's streaming service out there. They need to make lots of money from it to please their controlling shareholders and bankers. That's capitalism for you. Sell you soul and the devil will come for it.
Click to expand...

Hey. Did you read yourself? You look like you're freaking out. The access is only for a specific app. Look at the Amazon Echo integration.
Besides that, we don't even know how it actually works...
 
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Here are my thoughts.

1. Opening up iTunes to 3rd party vendors is welcome, but it won't really move the needle. Most iTunes movie purchases are already cross platform via Movies Anywhere. The nice thing is that you'll be able to watch the few movies that aren't part of MA and TV show purchases.

1a. However, this could be pointing to an expanded TV subscription service from Apple. If Apple were to offer a $40/mo service, it would behoove them to make it available to as many TVs as possible. If this means putting it on Samsung and Vizio smart TVs, then so be it. The next stops are Roku, PS, and Xbox.

2. As for aTV units, there's still a place for them in the lineup. I would presume that the iTunes app for Samsung/Vizio TVs will not be able to connect to iTunes on a Mac/PC. If this is the case, folks with content on their iTunes Library will still need an aTV to access it. I will grant that this is a small use case.

3. At least for now, this will only work with newish Samsung and Vizio TVs. Most households have 2-3 TVs and generally they're not that new. It'll take time for the installed base move towards TVs that are compatible. And when folks get new TVs, the old ones move into the kitchen or a den. So the aTV would still be necessary there.
 
This is basically a battle for the “movie player” app so there’s less reason to be in a non-Apple ecosystem. In general, content sync’s across stores via Movies Anywhere already today, but Apple doesn’t want you using VUDU or Google Play or something else to stream your movies.

But if the iTunes movies and TV experience is superior, perhaps due to more 4K/HDR content (seems that way at the moment, may not be a long-term advantage though) plus a nicer interface and a few exclusives like iTunes Extras, seems like a reasonable intro into the Apple ecosystem for many people.

This probably means Android soon too? Maybe in building out the Apple Music app or a second iTunes Movies & TV app?

And perhaps it means Disney 4K/HDR content is coming shortly as well? Keep an eagle-eye on the screenshots and look for Disney (Marvel, Star Wars, etc.) content being featured when 4K or HDR is noted nearby.
 
DeanLubaki said:
No one ever bought a $200 Apple TV only for iTunes Movies.
[doublepost=1546831151][/doublepost]
Click to expand...

Im pretty sure the 160GB Apple TV were around the $200 or higher mark, but you're prob right ATV2 & 3 were closer to the $100 mark.
For reference at the time, the main selling point (aside your family pics) was iTunes movies, & yes, I bought it for that very reason!;)
 
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I do not see this as a problem for the Apple TV. As I mentioned in the Samsung thread, I purchased a Samsung Smart TV over Black Friday this year. I didn't bother connecting to the TV to my home wifi to use the "smart" features of the television. My wife and I are cord cutters, so we watch all our TV together via our three ATV's in the house.

I think this is a great opportunity for Apple as others have mentioned. Their "services" business is booming. Reeling in Samsung, LG, Vizio, etc. customers who don't have an Apple TV box in their home and have those customers purchase movies/tv shows from iTunes is nothing but a step in the right direction.

The Apple TV isn't going anywhere.
 
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I don't think this is a problem for the apple tv.

I see it as Apple expanding their service. The rumored new streaming site is scheduled to start this year. I can see them wanting that on more platforms. This is similar to Apple music being available on Android devices (and now working with Alexa)

They aren't abandoning Apply TV (there's still the rumor that Apple will introduce a smaller, cheaper version). Plus, I don't see a ton of people upgrading their TV's (they way one would upgrade a streaming media player)
 
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It does make me take pause to wonder how Apple will market the Apple TV to the average consumer now that the latest TVs can stream from iOS devices without a dongle (even if we all know UI and software on TVs does suck). After all, these same TVs will also offer all the same media apps as the Apple TV (Netflix, Hulu, YouTube).

My opinion is that Apple needs to make the Apple TV a serious gaming platform and contender in the growing console and PC gaming market. Just as casual mobile games broke iOS wide open, a serious console-style product is essential if Apple truly wants to expand it's media ecosystem to the living room. Currently Apple mistakenly believes that mobile gaming is a substitute for, or will supplant console or PC gaming. The market says otherwise!

//
 
JeffPerrin said:
It does make me take pause to wonder how Apple will market the Apple TV to the average consumer now that the latest TVs can stream from iOS devices without a dongle (even if we all know UI and software on TVs does suck). After all, these same TVs will also offer all the same media apps as the Apple TV (Netflix, Hulu, YouTube).

My opinion is that Apple needs to make the Apple TV a serious gaming platform and contender in the growing console and PC gaming market. Just as casual mobile games broke iOS wide open, a serious console-style product is essential if Apple truly wants to expand it's media ecosystem to the living room. Currently Apple mistakenly believes that mobile gaming is a substitute for, or will supplant console or PC gaming. The market says otherwise!

//
Click to expand...
I don't think that Apple will every push the aTV as a gaming device. The expectations for gaming consoles is that they are multi-user. The aTV is iOS based and (AFAIK) doesn't really handle multiple users for saved games and progress. That's a bare minimum. I would hate for my kids to clear a bunch of levels on my account (yes, they are better at video games than I am, but I was pretty good back in the day).

The aTV as it currently stands still has a market. Not everyone is rushing out to get new (2018/2019) TV's. Older TVs work just fine and will still need a device to access iTunes content.

My interpretation of this is that Apple is on the verge of offering their TV-subscription package (where have we heard that before). Apple needs to get onto as many TV sets as possible. This is the start. Get on everyone's new TV sets and then work backwards to get on all of the older set. I think they can do this by either offering a "stripped-down" aTV and/or putting iTunes onto Roku/Chromecast/Firestick. They will aggressively divest the company/products away from hardware and towards software/services.
 
ftaok said:
I don't think that Apple will every push the aTV as a gaming device. The expectations for gaming consoles is that they are multi-user.
Click to expand...

I think multi-user would certainly be the least of the obstacles for making this happen.

My interpretation of this is that Apple is on the verge of offering their TV-subscription package (where have we heard that before). Apple needs to get onto as many TV sets as possible.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with you on this. But Apple's never been shy to cannibalize it's own products and I believe this is indeed going to be the case, to some extent, with the Apple TV. ie. They may let ATV fall on the sword in order to push their upcoming "TV service.

I disagree on the inexpensive "Apple" streaming stick. Apple won't invest in such a low-margin product what with TV makers building in Airplay 2 support moving forward. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we see an Apple "TV" or iTunes app of some sort make it's way on to smart TV sets in the near future.
 
Opening up Apple Music to Android didn't kill iOS or iPhone. Opening up the iTunes Store to competing tv platforms won't kill tvOS or AppleTV.
 
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JeffPerrin said:
I think multi-user would certainly be the least of the obstacles for making this happen.
Click to expand...
While I agree with you that multi-user shouldn't be an obstacle, this is Apple we're talking about. If they were serious about gaming on the current generation Apple TV, it would have happened by now. The aTV is plenty powerful to play some really nice games, yet they've shown very little in the way of making it a gaming platform.

I really don't think it'll ever happen, unless it just takes off on its own.
 
Do we even know if the Samsung iTunes app will allow movie playback in 4K and with Atmos? If not, ATV is still the much better experience.

Also, it appears that none of the other TV manufacturers are adding iTunes movie support.
 
Smart TVs all support m4v with Dolby Digital Plus. I can see Apple limiting Atmos support to ATV (for now), but will it make a difference?
 
Topfry said:
Hard to know what the future for the Apple TV will be when you read articles like this:

https://www.engadget.com/2019/01/06/samsungs-2019-smart-tv-itunes-airplay-2/?guccounter=1

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/6/18170797/samsung-2019-tvs-itunes-support-airplay-2


Reportedly also going to include google assistant?!?
What does it all mean, basically?
Click to expand...

It means nothing will happen.... People buy Apple TV for more than just Airplay. If that was the only thing, then ya, Apple TV would be doomed..

But it ain't like that. Plus you still have the formats supported on Apple,.. Smart TV's may never support some..

Those in the Apple-eco system would fit that everything just works... The moment you had a third part device/manufacture in the middle, that's when things go pear-shared.

For the life of me i just couldn't bet Bonjor working and iCloud (Back to my Mac) in the day, on Billion modems due to being unsupported.
 
It's news but doesn't sound like a big issue.
Apple doesn't sell TVs, so you go buy a nice new Samsung TV save $150 bucks and can stream everything from tge apple itunes stire this having your apple tv already built into the tv so to speak.
Same way fire stick and roku are built into certain tvs.
Sounds like a bit of a partnership.
 
I have to see how these HomeKit-enabled TV's actually work before I can fully grasp what is going on here. Samsung doesn't seem to get the HomeKit-integration (perhaps they didn't want to have it as they try to push their SmartHome/SmartThings solution) but only get a iTunes Movie app for their TizenOS.

In other words Samsung doesn't really get anything resembling "tvOS", they just get a iTunes Movies app for TizenOS making their TV's capable of playing back movies and TV-shows purchased and rented through the iTunes Store and most likely capable of streaming the shows that is expected to release for Apple Music this year? It doesn't seem like it will be able to stream Apple Music for music, but only for the shows?

Looks like a rather limited solution and capabilities if you ask me. And they won't support the use of AirPlay for neither audio or video streams? It's hard to tell if it's Apple or Samsung that just doesn't want to provide a better solution, it sounds really half-baked if you ask me.


For the other vendors that are getting HomeKit I'm not entirely sure what this means other than you being able to put your TV within the Apple Home-app and start using AirPlay for audio and video. They don't seem to get anything resembling tvOS either?

Just being capable of using AirPlay to your TV doesn't replace the Apple TV, not at all. I guess it depends on the implementation and the hardware and whether AirPlay is doing a direct stream (grabbing the content directly from the web/Internet) or doing a peer-to-peer (streaming from your device over AirPlay) but the peer-to-peer doesn't support 4K/2160P, HDR (neither HDR10/HDR10+ or Dolby Vision) or Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby Atmos.

I'm not entire sure about direct stream, I rarely use AirPlay as I tend to use my Apple TV for playback, not using my phone/tablet to AirPlay the content to my Apple TV. Apple doesn't seem to do a good job on documenting what kind of content that will actually direct stream using AirPlay or rely on peer-to-peer from the device used for AirPlay so it's next to impossible to tell how it's supposed to work and what kind of quality and codec's it will support.

Does AirPlay direct streams supports all the formats, quality levels and codecs as tvOS? Or do you have the same limitations as AirPlay peer-to-peer streaming with 1080P@30Hz, 720P@60Hz, no HDR and no Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby Atmos? I suppose AirPlay will use Direct Streams for iTunes and Apple Music content and as we have 4K, Dolby Vision with Dolby Atmos on the iTunes Store one would figure that should work?


What kind of requirements do the vendors have in order to be HomeKit-compatible? Will the implementation vary from vendor to vendor? Might one vendor support full 10-bit HEVC decoding and encoding for AirPlay, supporting 4K/2160P, HDR10, Dolby Vision and Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby Atmos while another does not feature full support for 10-bit HEVC decoding and encoding thus only supporting 1080P, no HDR and only Dolby Digital?


It's impossible to really compare anything without knowing any of the hardware specifications and it's implementation or anything about how this is supposed to work?

But it does not seem like neither HomeKit-enabled TV's or the Samsung TV's with the iTunes Movie app will have anything resembling tvOS?
 
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