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If you have Virgin or BT as your ISP, dont do anything until you read this!

PowerFullMac

PowerFullMac

macrumors 601
Original poster
Oct 16, 2006
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BBC News said:
Virgin Media has sent about 800 letters to customers warning them that they should not be downloading illegal music files via file-sharing sites.

It is part of a 10-week campaign it is running in conjunction with the BPI to "educate" users about downloads.

The BPI, the body which represents the UK record industry, told the BBC that "thousands more letters" would be sent.

Its stricter stance on illegal downloaders might result in some ISPs being taken to court, it told BBC News.

Refuseniks

The BPI wants all UK ISPs to sign up to a so-called three strikes policy - where users of file sharing networks get two warnings and are then disconnected if they are sharing copyright files.
So far only Virgin Media has officially signed up and it is keen to stress that currently it is running an education-only campaign and that no-one has been thrown off the network.

Virgin said the wording on the envelope which contains the warning letter sent to 800 customers - which threatens consumers with disconnection - was a "mistake".

This would be reviewed in mid-August, said a Virgin Media spokesman.


The BPI's Matt Phillips supports a letter campaign
BPI chief executive Geoff Taylor told BBC News that the body was prepared to back up the education campaign with legal action, including taking ISPs to court.

"If we have to go to court, we will go to court and we will win," he said.

One customer who received a letter told BBC Radio 1's Newsbeat programme that he was unhappy with Virgin Media.

It is doomed to fail

Virgin customer Will McGree


Newsbeat talks to Virgin customers

Will McGree received a letter in June, warning him that legal action could be taken against him.

He said: "It's doomed to fail. Virgin Media will lose a lot of customers over this because people don't like to be accused of stealing music over their morning coffee.

"It made me feel betrayed. I was under the impression that I paid Virgin Media money to keep my internet connection protected and safe."

He said no-one in his flat had been file-sharing and that it was possible someone had accessed his wireless network from outside the building.

Becky Hogge, executive director of the Open Rights Group, said the letters were a disproportionate response from the music industry.

"We need to protect users from punitive measures," she said.

She said the music industry had to be in a position of offering a viable alternative before it clamped down on the activities of some users.

"Stopping illicit file-sharing might not be as effective a measure as trying to monetise it," she said.

Some ISPs such as Carphone Warehouse, have refused to participate and the BPI did not rule out the possibility of taking such refuseniks to court.

Others, such as BT, have sent letters to subscribers threatening them with disconnection although it said this is not a new policy.

"We have not joined any "crusades", the telco said in a statement.

"We do work with various bodies to help them protect their copyright material and will sometimes pass on warning notices to customers on their behalf where we feel this is appropriate.

If a customer continues to be in breach of our terms and conditions then BT has the right to suspend or terminate that customer's account, though we work closely with customers to avoid this where possible," the statement read.

The industry has been given until spring of next year to find a solution to illegal downloaders or face legislation.

Youth-skewed

The current system involves the BPI policing file sharing networks. It looks for illegal traffic and identifies the IP address from which it has come and informs the ISP.

There is no distinction made between someone who has downloaded one illegal track and someone who has downloaded thousands.

A joint letter from Virgin and the BPI is then sent to the individual.

"This is about education. We make no assumptions about who is at fault. It may be someone in the family or someone illegally using their wi-fi connection," said a Virgin Media spokesman.

With conservative estimates suggesting a fifth of Europeans are involved in file sharing, some experts question how much impact such a system can have.

"File sharing is very youth-skewed. The BPI isn't going to close the door on the problem but it can get at the families whose kids are file sharing without their knowledge," said Mark Mulligan, an analyst with Jupiter Research.

Virgin is keen to stress that the 800 or so letters it has so far sent are a drop in the ocean compared to its 3.8m user base.

"In the scheme of things that is a relatively small number," said Ian Fogg, analyst with Jupiter Research.

He said that ISPs faced a difficult balancing act between conforming to the BPI's new rules and pleasing their own customers.

"It is a sensitive issue for providers. File sharers are using up network capacity and therefore pushing up their costs and illegal downloads compete with their own music services," he said.

"They need to be seen to be doing enough so they don't get sued and to control their costs but also need to be careful not to upset their customers."

Three strikes and you're in


The record industry has long grappled with how to wrest back control of digital music.

According to Jupiter Research, a fifth of Europeans use file sharing networks. Paid-for digital music services such as iTunes are used by just 10% and make up just 8% of overall music revenue.

The BPI admitted that the current mechanisms for selling music were "broken".

The new strategy will see it negotiating licensed content deals with ISPs who have pursued file sharers.

"We want people to see this not as three strikes and you're out but three strikes and you're in to legitimate music services," said Frederico Bolza, head of strategy at SonyBMG.

Some DRM-free material may be made available and the new subscription models will allow users to keep some of the tunes they download, he said.

Geoff Taylor, chief executive of the BPI, said the details of the services were yet to be decided but that there are likely to a variety of models on offer that would be "easy and cheap".

The form they take will be crucial, thinks Mr Mulligan.

"Charging a tenner a month hasn't worked. Ideally it needs to be incredibly cheap or free, with a massive catalogue that can be tranferrable," he said.

Mr Taylor admitted that the BPI's current campaign was unlikely to stop file sharing completely but he did think the idea that the web was home to free stuff needs to be challenged.

"There is a phenomenal amount of piracy out there and we believe that the idea that 95% of content on the net is free is not sustainable. We don't believe that society can allow the free consumption of content to persist," he said.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7486743.stm

I am seriously considering moving to Talk Talk, Carphone Warehouse's ISP.
 
I'm somehow less than impressed by "It wasn't me, someone must have hacked my router" claims.... :rolleyes:

I'm probably too American about this, but to me the "three strikes" policy, at least as briefly described (multiple warnings followed by service discontinuation) is more than reasonable. It's certainly more reasonable than the policy in the US of suing file-sharers at random and pushing them into out-of-court settlements where they buy amnesty for $3000 or $5000.

I'm no lover of the RIAA in the US or similar agencies elsewhere. And I do have a very limited amount of sympathy with regard to movies and TV shows, because the industry has been way to slow too bring content online. But as far as music is concern, it is widely available online using tons of different models from direct marketing, freeware (e.g. NIN), donationware (e.g. Radiohead), subscription models, outright purchase models, etc, etc. No one has any excuse to be pirating music anymore.

There should be some balance to protect copyright holders... and in this case the balance is extremely generous, from my perspective.
 
It was published yesterday.

I think they should respect user's privacy, if I pay for a service I think I should do what the hell I want with it.

Also, what happened to the internet being the home of freedom of speech etc.? They shouldnt police the internet.
 
^^^To put it bluntly, that is the dumbest thing I've heard in a LONG time.

It's stealing, people are getting called out for it via a non-confrontational letter, so what's wrong with this? You paid for internet access. This does not entitle people to steal music. Buying a knife does not mean you can do whatever illegal act you want with it. Buying a car does not give you the right to drive as fast as you want.

Having freedom of speech does not entitle you to steal music.
 
Abstract said:
^^^To put it bluntly, that is the dumbest thing I've heard in a LONG time.

It's stealing, people are getting called out for it via a non-confrontational letter, so what's wrong with this? You paid for internet access. This does not entitle people to steal music. Buying a knife does not mean you can do whatever illegal act you want with it. Buying a car does not give you the right to drive as fast as you want.

Having freedom of speech does not entitle you to steal music.
Click to expand...

Well said that man.

Seems pretty simple, don't steal music and you won't get cut off.
 
with regard to videos, I don't view it as stealing, because, I could just as easily record from my sky+ box to DVD then rip with MTR and handbrake. Anything i download, I have either watched first, or set my sky+ box to record the series, mark them as watched and leave them on the planner for 1 week so the callback feature registers it, Later when the show is out on DVD/BD I'll buy it. I have done this with SG1, Atlantis, Smallville, Torchwood, Doctor who and many more. I make sure that i pay for the content in one way or another eventually. Be it through my subscription TV service, TV Licence, or physical media. It just irks me that stuff takes so long to come out on DVD here, I mean there are still some Atlantis DVDs to be released for season 4, and that finished ages ago.
 
To me, this is no more a breach of privacy as a metal detector at a door. If it catches a man concealing a weapon, has his privacy been breached by the metal detector?

I believe we should all have a right to privacy, freedom of speech, etc. However, these rights are used too often in arguments by people who have no real excuse for their actions. I'm willing to accept security cameras in a retail shop. If it was my choice, they wouldn't be there. However, as a thinking human being who can feel empathy, I can understand why they are there, and why they are necessary, as not everyone who enters a shop is there for legal reasons. If it was my shop, I would feel quite bad, even if I was just the manager of a huge multinational company who wouldn't blink an eye at the theft.

Nobody cares about you, or what you do. Police don't. Security cameras don't. ISPs don't. It's not like these people are watching you. They're watching a person of some sort, his hands, his pockets, and yes, his downloading activity. You're not even a name. All they see is your IP number, so really, what privacy are you giving up? You're only visible when you do something illegal. Everyone on MacRumours, surfing animal porn, Youtube, etc, are all safe, faceless, nameless "things" in the ether.
 
So far only Virgin Media has officially signed up and it is keen to stress that currently it is running an education-only campaign and that no-one has been thrown off the network.

Virgin said the wording on the envelope which contains the warning letter sent to 800 customers - which threatens consumers with disconnection - was a "mistake".
Click to expand...
BBC.

Abstract said:
Everyone on MacRumours, surfing animal porn, Youtube, etc, are all safe, faceless, nameless "things" in the ether.
Click to expand...
http://up.*************/files/1/Images/Smilies/Dogeyes.gif
 
I'm simply stunned that people are moaning that they are been told to stop illegal activity but there is hardly any uproar on the ruling that google must hand over the entire logs for youtube of which the vast majority is legal.
 
scotthayes said:
I'm simply stunned that people are moaning that they are been told to stop illegal activity but there is hardly any uproar on the ruling that google must hand over the entire logs for youtube of which the vast majority is legal.
Click to expand...

If I had an "Applause" Smilie I'd put a few here.

Well said. :)
 
Why is it BT and Virgin seem to end up doing things together, first the crappy advertising thing and now this? Who's Branson in bed with?

Certainly not me!
 
As a Virgin customer, I'm delighted by this move as I have never downloaded or otherwise acquired anything in breach of copyright restrictions.
My comments aren't intended as a moral or judgemental statement: The reason I'm happy is that if this drives people away who do engage in this sort of activity, there will be more bandwidth for the rest of us :D
 
liketom said:
where i live , there was a attack on a chap in the city centre - cameras almost everywhere , and guess what

they still have no idea who did it

cameras sort of not work
Click to expand...

Unless someone drops a tiny amount of litter, then they would know exactly who did it.
 
Abstract said:
^^^To put it bluntly, that is the dumbest thing I've heard in a LONG time.

It's stealing, people are getting called out for it via a non-confrontational letter, so what's wrong with this? You paid for internet access. This does not entitle people to steal music. Buying a knife does not mean you can do whatever illegal act you want with it. Buying a car does not give you the right to drive as fast as you want.

Having freedom of speech does not entitle you to steal music.
Click to expand...

Lets put it like this, say a phone network sells you a phone contract that you pay £25 a month for but then the network goes and says that you cant call your best mates numbers and if you do they will cut you off.

Although I respect the industries need for money, they still end up rich anyway despite piracy, how many artists and producers do you see in flash cars and huge houses making more money than we will probably make in our lives in a few months? Almost all of them! Its not like they are poor or anything, they have so much money they could live off the interest alone!
 
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