If you were Apple how would you go about dissuading OCD types from exchanging phones?

[Hal~9000]

Some of you guys are misunderstanding the thread.

I didn't make the thread to debate IF Apple should allow returns... I'm asking lets say you were Apple and you had a meeting and Tim Cook says "You know what guys these consumers thinking they can just return stuff anytime they want is KILLING us, no matter what we need to figure out a way to stop it!"

What would be the best way in your opinion? Not have online pre-orders? Showcase the phones in store a few weeks ahead of time so people could figure out which one they wanted? A t-mobile test drive program of sorts?

Give me your ideas

Some people are crazy though

Definitely. Some crazy *** mofo's on this forum that somehow equate the search of the 'perfect' phone to their life achievement

 

[Wiesenlooser]

Its simple - Apple is in the high margins business. High margins means youll do (nearly) EVERYTHING to please the customer.

When I buy a new phone for 1000 Dollar, I want it to be absolutely flawless. And if there is something wrong (for me) with the display, I want it to be exchanged no questions asked.

It is what makes me justify buying a new phone for 1000 Dollar in two years. The little voice in my head that makes me say : Hey, if I have a problem I can change the phone or give it back within 2 weeks.

 

[617aircav]

Some of you guys are misunderstanding the thread.

I didn't make the thread to debate IF Apple should allow returns... I'm asking lets say you were Apple and you had a meeting and Tim Cook says "You know what guys these consumers thinking they can just return stuff anytime they want is KILLING us, no matter what we need to figure out a way to stop it!"

What would be the best way in your opinion? Not have online pre-orders? Showcase the phones in store a few weeks ahead of time so people could figure out which one they wanted? A t-mobile test drive program of sorts?

Give me your ideas



Definitely. Some crazy *** mofo's on this forum that somehow equate the search of the 'perfect' phone to their life achievement

Your premise is wrong. Apple will never have such a meeting because there isn't an issue to try and solve. Being able to return an item for whatever reason is part of the selling point.

 

[Max(IT)]

I see so many people on the forum say they are going to take back a phone because:
- they think something is wrong with their screen when its not
- they think something is wrong with their battery life when its not
- they just want a different color and couldn't figure this out ahead of time
- they didn't realize they wanted a different memory size
- they just took whatever they could get on day 1 and figured they could return it and get the one they want once it's in stock
- they didn't do their homework ahead of time to know the 6+ was too big
- they didn't do their homework ahead of time to know the 6 was too small
- because it's not a big enough difference from their 5s

The list goes on and on of irresponsible people who cost the Apple good money by simply being fickle buyers who either don't do their homework or can't figure out what they want ahead of time

If you were Apple, how would you shut down these OCD types from constantly making poor decisions and costing you money by thinking they can simply exchange over and over or constantly return/rebuy instead of simply doing their homework and making the correct purchase the first time?

Perhaps restocking fees? A time limit of 30 - 60 days before you can buy another iPhone after a return? What?

Of course there will be people in the thread saying "how dare you not let me exchange my phone 396 times, I'm a consumer dammit and I get anything I want!" but I don't care about hearing from them, I'm simply asking: If you were Apple, how would you shut down these types from costing you money by thinking they can return or exchange many times over instead of simply doing their homework and figuring out the best choice before buying?

I look forward to reading your ideas

Sadly, you can't do anything about that, especially with typical Apple customers.
Expectations are very high, and OCD is a real problem for some tech enthusiasts.
Btw Apple already did something about that: they set prices at an higher level. Basically we "normal user" are paying for some anal people....

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You keep using the term OCD. I don't think it means what you think it means.

People keep returning a perfectly working device, maybe 5-6 times, over an "image retention issue" that exists only in their mind is a good example to define OCD, actually

 

[Hal~9000]

Your premise is wrong. Apple will never have such a meeting because there isn't an issue to try and solve. Being able to return an item for whatever reason is part of the selling point.

I'm not asking if you think it could happen, I'm asking if it did.

Imagine I ask the question "Hey guys, what would happen if the world was flat?" And you came on the thread and contributed nothing by saying "Your premise is wrong. The world is round and could never be flat". Well duh, it's called a hypothetical...

Again I'm not asking if you think it could happen, I'm asking if Apple made it a top priority to stop obsessive perfectionists from exchanging iPhones all the time... how would you go about doing it?

 

[Max(IT)]

My biggest OCD is dead pixels and stuck pixels.

Well, dead pixels are an actual issue. A physical damage of the panel, so it's not OCD...
But what about some "unevenly lighted" units returned several times ( and I mean 6 times!)?

 

[localboy28]

Just ban all macrumours users from Apple stores
Ocd returns would probably be non existent if they did.

 

[Brian Y]

Most of it is down to common sense. You will have people who are just never happy, and people who do actually have lots of issues. Say the OOB failure rate is 3% - that means that ~1 in every 10,000 people will have faults with 2 or more phones. Given they sold 10m, that's at least 1,000 people who will genuinely have multiple issues (statistically speaking).

Then, of course, you have the "I want the 6, NO I want the plus, NO i want the 6 in gold" bunch. This is where a common sense approach comes into play. Whilst, in theory Apple's policy is to allow 14 day exchanges, unofficially, after a couple they will happily tell you to go away. How enforceable is it? Not very. But they can make it harder by making you go to another store to buy your phone, which might not be so easy with scalpers taking up all of the stock!

Oh, and then there's the profit margin argument. I would imagine that Apple can essentially give you three phones and still be on the border of profit from the sale of one (model dependant, of course - with the 128GB being the most profitable). Then, when you consider that your returned phone isn't a total loss - it'll go back, have a new screen/battery if needed (at cost - £10?) and then be sent out as a refurbished replacement device.

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Sadly, you can't do anything about that, especially with typical Apple customers.
Expectations are very high, and OCD is a real problem for some tech enthusiasts.
Btw Apple already did something about that: they set prices at an higher level. Basically we "normal user" are paying for some anal people....

----------



People keep returning a perfectly working device, maybe 5-6 times, over an "image retention issue" that exists only in their mind is a good example to define OCD, actually

Actually, it's not. OCD is a severe mental illness in which the sufferer has to perform a certain behaviour (compulsion) in order to negate an intrusive thought (obsession). Returning a phone because of 'image retention" is not "OCD" as you put it, and is actually pretty insulting to those that do genuinely suffer with OCD (who wouldn't boast about it on a forum).

But hey, around here I guess it's cool to have every piece of anal behaviour labelled as OCD.

 

[Max(IT)]

Obsessive Compulsive Disorder.

It's where people obsess over small things, however, OCD is actually a recognised mental illness, but people use it to describe people who care too much about small issues with their stuff.

OCD is often a lot more severe than that.. some sufferers have reported such things as thinking their entire family will die if they don't flick a light switch on and off exactly 12 times. That's just one example.

Correct. Actually the meaning of that in this forum is a lot more trivial

 

[Brian Y]

My biggest OCD is dead pixels and stuck pixels.

As above, your "OCD" isn't dead pixels. That's not obsessive compulsive disorder.

If you felt compelled to hit your phone about the wall an even number of times at the exact moment the clock hit 15 minutes past and not a second later because you believe it would get rid of the thought stuck in your head in which your phone, dead pixels and all, is trying to murder your family. THAT would make you an OCD sufferer.

Worrying about dead pixels is perfectly rational.

 

[Max(IT)]

Its simple - Apple is in the high margins business. High margins means youll do (nearly) EVERYTHING to please the customer.

When I buy a new phone for 1000 Dollar, I want it to be absolutely flawless. And if there is something wrong (for me) with the display, I want it to be exchanged no questions asked.

It is what makes me justify buying a new phone for 1000 Dollar in two years. The little voice in my head that makes me say : Hey, if I have a problem I can change the phone or give it back within 2 weeks.

That's just unreasonable and this silly idea is the reason some Apple customers are OCD.
An absolutely flawless device would cost 10000$, not just 1000.

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Most of it is down to common sense. You will have people who are just never happy, and people who do actually have lots of issues. Say the OOB failure rate is 3% - that means that ~1 in every 10,000 people will have faults with 2 or more phones. Given they sold 10m, that's at least 1,000 people who will genuinely have multiple issues (statistically speaking).

Then, of course, you have the "I want the 6, NO I want the plus, NO i want the 6 in gold" bunch. This is where a common sense approach comes into play. Whilst, in theory Apple's policy is to allow 14 day exchanges, unofficially, after a couple they will happily tell you to go away. How enforceable is it? Not very. But they can make it harder by making you go to another store to buy your phone, which might not be so easy with scalpers taking up all of the stock!

Oh, and then there's the profit margin argument. I would imagine that Apple can essentially give you three phones and still be on the border of profit from the sale of one (model dependant, of course - with the 128GB being the most profitable). Then, when you consider that your returned phone isn't a total loss - it'll go back, have a new screen/battery if needed (at cost - £10?) and then be sent out as a refurbished replacement device.

----------



Actually, it's not. OCD is a severe mental illness in which the sufferer has to perform a certain behaviour (compulsion) in order to negate an intrusive thought (obsession). Returning a phone because of 'image retention" is not "OCD" as you put it, and is actually pretty insulting to those that do genuinely suffer with OCD (who wouldn't boast about it on a forum).

But hey, around here I guess it's cool to have every piece of anal behaviour labelled as OCD.

Well, it obviously is in this contest

 

[Hal~9000]

But hey, on Macrumors here I guess it's cool to have every piece of anal behavior labelled as OCD.

Correct.

If people want to get bent out of shape over the term oh well, I'm simply asking a question as to what you would do if you were Apple to curb the obsessive/anal/perfectionist (WHATEVER you wanna call it) from constantly exchanging phones.

 

[lordofthereef]

I don't think, in the long run, too many people return their phones for "OCD" type issues (since the horse has been beaten, we will just call it "perceived flaws" for Apple to justify changing their policies.

If supply constraints are your motivation to want for change, then returns are definitely not the reason things are so rough around launch dates.

Apple's customer service and return policy are likely a large factor into why people choose them over others. AFAIK, the restocking fees only exist at the core stores like AT&T, VZW, but not at other stores that sell/stock products (i.e. Target, WalMart, etc).

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Correct.

If people want to get bent out of shape over the term oh well,

To be fair, it's actually a clinic term, so there's that.

 

[Hal~9000]

Apple's customer service and return policy are likely a large factor into why people choose them over others. AFAIK, the restocking fees only exist at the core stores like AT&T, VZW, but not at other stores that sell/stock products (i.e. Target, WalMart, etc).

Sure, but that's not my question of the thread though. I'm asking if Apple made it a mandatory priority to curb the obsessive/anal/perfectionist/whatever types from constantly exchanging phones... how would you do it? tell me your methods?

Don't care if people swear up to the heavens "Nonono! Apple would never do such a thing", that's not what I'm asking about. I'm simply presenting a hypothetical and how you would make it work.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Don't kid yourself... Apple will still turn a profit if you return and re-buy. Not as much, but there's a cost to satisfying every customer.

If I were Tim Cook, I would leave it the way it is rather than have customers complain about ridiculous tactics to deter <.1% of the customer base.

 

[Rafterman]

So you're basically advocating the concept that apple become less consumer friendly and not try to help out a consumer who is not happy with their purchase?

I don't think that will go very far.

These OCD buyers are making these devices more expensive for everyone else. I don't mind a color or memory size change, it happens. But how many times do you read about people here who say they exchanged their device 5 or 6 times in order to get a "perfect" one? I remember one dude who exchanged it 9 times. That nonsense has to stop.

 

[Wiesenlooser]

That's just unreasonable and this silly idea is the reason some Apple customers are OCD.
An absolutely flawless device would cost 10000$, not just 1000.

Why would a flawless iPhone cost 10000$? There are many iPhones out there that dont have any defects or bad screens and are put together the way it should be without faults.

You confuse perfect with flawless. I just want my product to be as advertised - without any defective screens or bad built quality.

 

[617aircav]

Sadly, you can't do anything about that, especially with typical Apple customers.

Expectations are very high, and OCD is a real problem for some tech enthusiasts.

Btw Apple already did something about that: they set prices at an higher level. Basically we "normal user" are paying for some anal people....

----------





People keep returning a perfectly working device, maybe 5-6 times, over an "image retention issue" that exists only in their mind is a good example to define OCD, actually

You are on a tech site. Most people are not on tech forums and I'm sure will not be returning phones for such reasons.

 

[noteple]

They give us an exchange period
That helps with the wrong color, size, and product which isn't OCD

They swap for defects that prevent the product from working during a warranty
Which isn't OCD

They swap for defects in Camera and Display quality like missing pixels
Uneven backlighting or poor color temperature.
An OCD person might notice an issue, when a genius would say 'what's the big deal'. Under the Exchange or Warranty swap it out.

Fit & Finish will always suffer when factories are being whipped to up their yield to satisfy demand.

 

[12vElectronics]

I'm sure Apple did its research before coming up with 14 days. You think they just pulled that number out of the air? They probably did surveys and used other scientific methods to come up with that.

Oh I agree that they came up with that number through much research and discussing.

I replied to a question OP asked. It's just an internet forum and we're all giving our opinions. With how bad the general public misuses return policys, I wouldn't be surprised if merchants started going towards a 7 day return window. Heck, it used to be 30 days everywhere and now it's 15 (Best Buy) and 14 (Apple)...

 

[markusbeutel]

Carriers and retailers do this already to some degree and they seem to be doing fine. I'm simply doing a hypothetical that it would help Apple if they did this and how the forum members would do it if they were Apple.

Actually, the return and exchange policy is usually better at any store not named Apple. Microsoft has a 30 day no questions asked return/exchange policy - you don't even need a good reason to return something if you're so inclined.

 

[Mechinyun]

Why care about this?

This has no effect on your life.

 

[areyes163]

I would say a restocking fee unless there is a true defect in the device. If there is a defect the device needs to be exchanged immediately. Now for those who ordered a model then change their mind. The restocking fee should apply and they should have to place a new order and get in line. How many of thousands of people ordered a phone and are still waiting. Now take the thousands who ordered a phone got said phone then walked in and exchanged it this taking a phone away from someone waiting. That I think is crap.

If I order a phone and later decide I want a different one I should have to pay a restock fee and get back in line. Allowing customers to exchange it and in a sense take cuts in line is hurting those still waiting.

And don't say well I ordered before you because yes. You did order before me. You ordered the device you have. Not the device you changed your mind for.

 

[lordofthereef]

Sure, but that's not my question of the thread though. I'm asking if Apple made it a mandatory priority to curb the obsessive/anal/perfectionist/whatever types from constantly exchanging phones... how would you do it? tell me your methods?

Don't care if people swear up to the heavens "Nonono! Apple would never do such a thing", that's not what I'm asking about. I'm simply presenting a hypothetical and how you would make it work.

Well that's simple then. Just tell people "no".

 

[myscrnnm]

People keep returning a perfectly working device, maybe 5-6 times, over an "image retention issue" that exists only in their mind is a good example to define OCD, actually

OP said:

"- they just want a different color and couldn't figure this out ahead of time
- they didn't realize they wanted a different memory size
- they just took whatever they could get on day 1 and figured they could return it and get the one they want once it's in stock
- they didn't do their homework ahead of time to know the 6+ was too big
- they didn't do their homework ahead of time to know the 6 was too small
- because it's not a big enough difference from their 5s"

These have nothing to do with OCD. These are examples of people who made poor decisions. The two preceding examples of the display and battery life also have nothing to do with OCD, just inaccurate individual perceptions of the device's performance.