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I bought one...it will almost certainly go back.

1. I can't figure out any way for *me* to control the plug from more than one of my devides.

2. Multi-user support for other people in the family produces nothing but errors.

3. Even if everything worked, you are basically talking about controlling table/floor lamps and fans, not much else.

I know that #s 1 and 2 above can be done better, because other "smart" devices in our home don't have either of those problems.
 
Home Control and Home Automation do have a lot of great solutions that work very well. This market is undergoing a disruptive transition because of the following:

The hype surrounding IoT (the Internet of Things) views home control / home automation as a killer-app for IoT

The legacy/existing systems have been proprietary non-pc/non-Mac expensive "black box" systems sold by high end "authorized only" dealers (Crestron, Control 4, etc.)

The power of and convenient of consumer user interface devices (iPads, SmartPhones) far exceeds the proprietary screens, keypads, and controllers predominately in use. (Just look at what an inexpensive app like Roomie Remote can do with an iPhone or iPad and a "blaster" LAN-to-IR bridge.)

The major vendors (Apple, Google, Samsung) are looking for the next multi-billion dollar market and have decided home automation is more concrete target than simply "IoT"

So in the first phase we are seeing a lot of new products / new technologies that are very immature and give home control / home automation a bad rap. In fact, existing proven technologies are mature D.I.Y. Solutions - e.g. Insteon, Lutron, WeMo, Philips Hue, Nest, Somfy and many Z-Wave and Zigbee devices. Software, as always, is a mixed bag, with some really bad stuff but also some really good solutions from Indigo and iSY99 hubs/controllers.

The main thing the "new guys" (Apple, Samsung/SmartThings, Google/Nest) are pioneering is better security and voice control. Everything else, right now, is sub-par and will take time to catch up.

The challenge is for the existing guys to decide how to play now that their little sandbox is being invaded by the big guys. Everything changes - think of it like the early pre-PC market of S-100 computers BEFORE the IBM PC and the Apple ][ came on the scene. Early hobbyists thought the IBM PC and the Apple were toys and not going to last.

If I was Crestron or Control 4, I would be scared. If I was Indigo or iSY99 I would try very hard to jump on the bandwagon and not be left behind.
 
This has been my thought as well after testing the Philips Hue over the past few weeks. The problem becomes allowing all of the fine tuning that can be done with the manufacturer's API's, while keeping a centralized app to organize all of the different schedules. It's something not done easily, and quickly makes my mind go back to the XKCD comic about different competing standards.
I used Homeseer on my Windows server about 14 years ago, and it had plugins so that people could write device drivers for their products. It was pretty nice!

I think HomeKit is the same idea, but on a better scale and implementation.
 
So here's a question: How are people that live in a house with other people supposed to handle the admin of these "smart home" devices ?

If you, your spouse and your 2 kids all need to be able to turn on or off a light thats plugged into a smart outlet at your house what is the method?

Do all users need to be logged into the same iCloud account? Can you add multiple accounts to a device? does everyone need to be using an apple device?

If I have a guest over and they want to turn off the light, do they need an app to be installed? What if a user doesn't have a smart device?

I have a Belkin Wemo light hooked up in my living room, and my son always turns it off at the lamp because he cant be bothered to pull out his phone.... then the thing won't turn back on with my app...

I wanted to put hue lights all over my house but then I realized when I switch them off at the wall (or my wife does) all the automation stuff stops working until they get switched back on...

This is the real problem with these devices: you need to design the whole home as a system and take into account a bunch of complicated variables, and this runs counter to the whole buy devices one at a time and add them to the system convenience people want...

Automation remains only interesting for nerds that live alone or with other nerds, or rich people that can afford to "Smartify" their whole home in one fell swoop.

It won't be "The Next Big Thing" until they can remove these friction points.
 
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$40 is considered "cheap"? In what universe am I living?!?

Make all the excuses you want about how it's new so things cost more. But these price points aren't high, they're ludicrous. HomeKit won't go anywhere till the price drops significantly.

There are no excuses as this is a subjective issue. $40 to YOU is pennies to others. Ive spent $20 on one beer and didnt blink an eye.
 
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Apple has a serious problem with HomeKit. I have yet to see a single HomeKit-compatible product that has glowing reviews. Actually, even worse, I have yet to see a review on a single HomeKit-compatible product which states that the product works as intended on a consistent basis. All the reviews I've read about HomeKit-compatible products say quite the opposite, unfortunately.

If Apple wants to be a serious player in the home automation space, they need to step up their game big time and start working more closely with the companies that are developing products for their platform.

http://www.amazon.com/ecobee3-Smart...pebp=1440779354202&perid=1WCRVT9PQ8T753TB5ZM2

248 reviews, 5 stars. I have one and it's great.
 
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hehe.... cute

I was wondering from a tech perspective how they would work because its an ordinary outlet, connected to an non-smart light, lamp etc..

Then i released the on/off switch, u control that remote via the app,,, Am i close ?

Basically controlling the on/off switch from an app is "smart" just because u don't have to get up ? ok :cool: i can dig it.

If i could get them for 240v, i wouldn't mind trying these out.


It's far more than just simply turning whatever is plugged into it on and off via your phone. You can program to turn on/of under a whole pile of circumstances: ON when your phone (presumably with you attached to it) enters the room; OFF when you leave it; ON/OFF when you are not at home via your phone; ON/OFF at certain times when you are away so it looks like you're home; when programmed with other smart devices, to work together: you turn on your TV, the lights go off, when someone rings your connected doorbell it flashes the attached light ON/OFF; etc. granted for the more complex scenarios there will need to be some kind of hub controlling it all. Most hubs on the market today use an IFTTT (IF This Then That) type programming: kind of like the smart playlists in iTunes.
 
Apple has a serious problem with HomeKit. I have yet to see a single HomeKit-compatible product that has glowing reviews. Actually, even worse, I have yet to see a review on a single HomeKit-compatible product which states that the product works as intended on a consistent basis. All the reviews I've read about HomeKit-compatible products say quite the opposite, unfortunately.

If Apple wants to be a serious player in the home automation space, they need to step up their game big time and start working more closely with the companies that are developing products for their platform.

I wonder if the rumoured 4th gen ATV won't take care of this. Or at least try to.
 
This is why - for the most part - home automation is a solution looking for a problem.

In that use case, yes. But the use case of not being home, and on vacation, and turning lights on and off in your home to simulate you being home, then you're wrong - home automation IS a solution.

Or if you're upstairs, and hear something downstars - like a burglar - you can turn on lights downstairs and maybe scare the burglar away.
 
I'm still hopeful for what all of this stuff might become some day. For now, and this is just my opinion, turning on a light switch with my iPhone either using an app or Siri is about 98% cool factor, 1% solving a problem, and 1% convenience. But if some day I can just say out loud in my home "turn on the dining room light" and the light comes on, I think the convenience factor goes way up. Give me an Apple TV or some other hub that is constantly listening for a command so I can just speak it outloud and then I'll start to take this stuff seriously. Add a speaker to it and I can even ask a question outloud and get a response from Siri. And as an added bonus can we please make the "hey, Siri" command customizable?
 
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There are no excuses as this is a subjective issue. $40 to YOU is pennies to others. Ive spent $20 on one beer and didnt blink an eye.
Subjective? Hardly. I've been poor, in debt up to my eyeballs, and extremely well off in life, and at no time did I consider $40 for a glorified outlet inexpensive. When "cheap" is used on MacRumors, that term isn't reserved for those who buy things like the Apple Watch Edition for their pet leopard.
 
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Is this a joke? Am I the only one that finds this form factor a bit ridiculous? Look at the size of those plugs? And one outlet? Not even an additional one? I mean, c'mon!!! What's in there? Think about how thin your iPhone is and look at that thing. It only has to have one tiny radio in it right? Am I missing something? Why couldn't it simply be integrated into a new wall plate like some of the USB charging solutions?
Yes... well it's dealing with 110V so it may have some sort of relay.
 
It won't be "The Next Big Thing" until they can remove these friction points.

Wow. You're WAY overthinking this.

The main point of home automation is that a script is determining what to do, not that people are interacting with it.
 
...Ways home automation could be improved would be if things just worked without me saying anything at all. IE, when I walk into a room, the lights should turn on. When I sit on the couch, the TV (and friends) should turn on and the lights should dim. When I walk to my door, it should unlock, and when I walk away from it, it should lock. When someone else tries to get in, it should identify the person and have a rule table saying whether to just let them in, just reject them, or pop a notification on my Apple Watch or iPhone or computer asking me.

This is the idea behind all these home automation products. You can already buy systems that will do all of this. Apple's HomeKit is just one of the latest entries into the home automation market. Assuming they make the next ATV a hub for HomeKit, which is rumoured to happen, you can set up your house to do all of that. Granted some products will require hard wiring to the home, many will be fairly easy to install: take out a light switch and replace it with a connected one.
 
Ways home automation could be improved would be if things just worked without me saying anything at all. IE, when I walk into a room, the lights should turn on. When I sit on the couch, the TV (and friends) should turn on and the lights should dim. When I walk to my door, it should unlock, and when I walk away from it, it should lock. When someone else tries to get in, it should identify the person and have a rule table saying whether to just let them in, just reject them, or pop a notification on my Apple Watch or iPhone or computer asking me.

This is correct, and why I just laugh when I see commercials touting voice control over your "automation" system. If you have to tell it what to do every time, it's not automated.

Yes. I have motion sensor switches in certain rooms problem is if I stay in the room longer than anticipated but I'm out of sensor's view the lights go out and I have to walk into view and jump around to turn the light back on. An iBeacon could solve that.
This is exactly what I do. I have a motion sensor in my office, and a beacon under my desk with the power level set very low. When my phone is within about 8' of my desk, it overrides the 5 minute shut-off of the lights. I also have things set so that if I manually turn the light on or off, it overrides the motion sensor shut off for 30 minutes before it returns to normal motion sensing.

--------------

Now, I'm obviously an outlier in this market, because I've been building out a DIY automation system for a couple of years now. I got into it out of curiosity involving the Hue bulbs. I bought a starter set not too long after they came out, and was having a blast playing with them. Until I realized that I didn't want to have to pull out my phone to turn lights on and off every time. And yes, you can put them in a regular switched outlet, and they function as normal lights. But if someone leaves the switch off, your expensive bulbs suddenly are no longer able to be automated. That was a frustrating realization, and it led me to start digging into what else was out there. Another frustration was that, even with a fairly regular work/home schedule, time-based programs were only able to be useful most of the time. The real trick to home automation, I've noticed, is not to create programs that automate the bulk of your time, but rather to make sure that you can accommodate those edge cases where you have to get up early, or you're having a party, or whatever it is that's throwing your routine off. You also have to plan for graceful failure, when it occurs (and it will).

IMHO, there are a couple of requirements for home automation to be successful: It needs to pass "the babysitter test", ie., someone who is basically a stranger can walk into your home and figure out how to perform the basic controls themselves. Part of this is that it needs to exist as a layer on top of the existing systems that people are used to. Flipping switches or operating the thermostat shouldn't cause any issues. The only way I have found for this to be successful is if you replace the actual switches themselves with controllable switches. That way the user can operate the light manually, or it can be controlled.

Another item require for success, as I noted above, is that the system requires minimal input from the users. When the living room temperature goes above 74 degrees, I want the ceiling fan to come on low, and as the temperature goes up, so does the fan speed. This is much more efficient, if I wait until I notice that I'm uncomfortably hot, I turn the fan on later than I should. Eventually I'll get around to motorized blinds that will help with thermal control.

One of the things I hear a lot is this question of what the use case is, and if it's not just laziness. I think of it more as convenience. In that spirit, I'll share some of the things I've done with my system:

- My wife gets home in the evenings before I do; but even so, during winter, it's dark already when she gets home. But a geofence notices when she gets to within about a quarter mile of the house. Upon that trigger, the driveway and front porch lights come on, and the thermostat heat set point gets changed from the away setting to 68 degrees. The lights in the foyer and living room come on as well. That way, when either of us arrive home, it's not to a dark house.

- In the reverse scenario, she leaves before I do in the morning, and I drop the kid off at school on my way to work. I can walk out of the house with most of the lights on, the TV left on, the heater on, etc, and know that anything I forgot to turn off will be shut down about 20 minutes after I leave, and the heater will never be accidentally left on for the day.

- When I go to bed at night, one button on a multi-button keypad on the wall by my bed puts the house into "bedtime" mode. Most of the lights get shut down, and light levels for motion sensors in the hallway and bathroom are changed so that if you get up in the middle of the night, the motion sensors only kick the lights on to about 15% brightness (and at a 2.5 second ramp rate rather than instantaneously) so you're not blinded. During the day, those settings are changed back to 90% brightness and a .1 second ramp rate.

- I have an IP camera over the front door, along with a motion sensor for the light. If there is motion while I am away, I get a Prowl notification with a URL I can click that shows me a still image from the camera.

- The lights in my fish tank are tied to sunrise / sunset time instead of absolute times, so the fish get seasons. Sort of, anyway.

You're really only limited by your imagination and your budget. Unfortunately, this kind of setup is only possible at this time for someone willing to invest a non-trivial amount of time and money in the process. It's become a hobby, so I don't begrudge the process. And, quite frankly, I've learned a hell of a lot of stuff that was previously way outside my comfort zone.
 
Home Control and Home Automation do have a lot of great solutions that work very well. This market is undergoing a disruptive transition because of the following:

The hype surrounding IoT (the Internet of Things) views home control / home automation as a killer-app for IoT

The legacy/existing systems have been proprietary non-pc/non-Mac expensive "black box" systems sold by high end "authorized only" dealers (Crestron, Control 4, etc.)

The power of and convenient of consumer user interface devices (iPads, SmartPhones) far exceeds the proprietary screens, keypads, and controllers predominately in use. (Just look at what an inexpensive app like Roomie Remote can do with an iPhone or iPad and a "blaster" LAN-to-IR bridge.)

The major vendors (Apple, Google, Samsung) are looking for the next multi-billion dollar market and have decided home automation is more concrete target than simply "IoT"

So in the first phase we are seeing a lot of new products / new technologies that are very immature and give home control / home automation a bad rap. In fact, existing proven technologies are mature D.I.Y. Solutions - e.g. Insteon, Lutron, WeMo, Philips Hue, Nest, Somfy and many Z-Wave and Zigbee devices. Software, as always, is a mixed bag, with some really bad stuff but also some really good solutions from Indigo and iSY99 hubs/controllers.

The main thing the "new guys" (Apple, Samsung/SmartThings, Google/Nest) are pioneering is better security and voice control. Everything else, right now, is sub-par and will take time to catch up.

The challenge is for the existing guys to decide how to play now that their little sandbox is being invaded by the big guys. Everything changes - think of it like the early pre-PC market of S-100 computers BEFORE the IBM PC and the Apple ][ came on the scene. Early hobbyists thought the IBM PC and the Apple were toys and not going to last.

If I was Crestron or Control 4, I would be scared. If I was Indigo or iSY99 I would try very hard to jump on the bandwagon and not be left behind.
I think you summed it up perfectly!
 
Bingo! And most of what is available requires too much interaction. To me, that's not very smart. I think the Nest Thermostat is about the only home automation device out right now that can be called "smart." Once it learns your preferences, you don't need to interact with it as much, it just does it for you. That's home automation!

For lighting, I find that timers, photo sensors and some combination of the two work best depending on the application. These HomeKit devices seem to "overthink the plumbing," as it were.

The "smart" won't be in products like this one. It'll be in the hub (and the subsequent programming the user puts into it) that controls the products like this one. Some products, like the NEST, will be smart on their own and even smarter when linked to a well programmed hub. Other products, like this one, will just obey whatever it's connected to. Analogy: "Despicable Me". The controller will be Steve Carrell. This product is a Minion.
 
For anything more than lights and fans, unfortunately, just turning the power on and off won't work, you need something like a universal remote to operate them. Like for instance a portable air conditioner that I have can't be operated with this homekit stuff- if I cut the power to it, it loses all the settings, and when power is restored it doesn't just turn back on, I still have to hit the power button on its remote, and then change all the settings back to where they were.
 
One thing I haven't understood about any of these - I don't own any appliances that turn on or off from the wall? Air-conditioning is not running from a standard powerpoint it's connected to a 10v line or something beefier (don't fully understand, it's got it's own line though and big on/off switch it's not in a wall socket). TV doesn't turn on by simply flicking it on at the wall. Computers don't turn on. Ovens don't turn on.
 
I am all for technology that assists us mortals. However, all this automation down to turning off a light bulb is more then I need. I like controlling my music, alarm system with voice or apps that is about it. The real irony with Apple, "Watch says stand up" "Home Kit essentially says stay seated I will turn off the light, fix the temperature, set the alarm, lock the doors, no need for you to move". Something to think about.
 
This is correct, and why I just laugh when I see commercials touting voice control over your "automation" system. If you have to tell it what to do every time, it's not automated.


This is exactly what I do. I have a motion sensor in my office, and a beacon under my desk with the power level set very low. When my phone is within about 8' of my desk, it overrides the 5 minute shut-off of the lights. I also have things set so that if I manually turn the light on or off, it overrides the motion sensor shut off for 30 minutes before it returns to normal motion sensing.

--------------

Now, I'm obviously an outlier in this market, because I've been building out a DIY automation system for a couple of years now. I got into it out of curiosity involving the Hue bulbs. I bought a starter set not too long after they came out, and was having a blast playing with them. Until I realized that I didn't want to have to pull out my phone to turn lights on and off every time. And yes, you can put them in a regular switched outlet, and they function as normal lights. But if someone leaves the switch off, your expensive bulbs suddenly are no longer able to be automated. That was a frustrating realization, and it led me to start digging into what else was out there. Another frustration was that, even with a fairly regular work/home schedule, time-based programs were only able to be useful most of the time. The real trick to home automation, I've noticed, is not to create programs that automate the bulk of your time, but rather to make sure that you can accommodate those edge cases where you have to get up early, or you're having a party, or whatever it is that's throwing your routine off. You also have to plan for graceful failure, when it occurs (and it will).

IMHO, there are a couple of requirements for home automation to be successful: It needs to pass "the babysitter test", ie., someone who is basically a stranger can walk into your home and figure out how to perform the basic controls themselves. Part of this is that it needs to exist as a layer on top of the existing systems that people are used to. Flipping switches or operating the thermostat shouldn't cause any issues. The only way I have found for this to be successful is if you replace the actual switches themselves with controllable switches. That way the user can operate the light manually, or it can be controlled.

Another item require for success, as I noted above, is that the system requires minimal input from the users. When the living room temperature goes above 74 degrees, I want the ceiling fan to come on low, and as the temperature goes up, so does the fan speed. This is much more efficient, if I wait until I notice that I'm uncomfortably hot, I turn the fan on later than I should. Eventually I'll get around to motorized blinds that will help with thermal control.

One of the things I hear a lot is this question of what the use case is, and if it's not just laziness. I think of it more as convenience. In that spirit, I'll share some of the things I've done with my system:

- My wife gets home in the evenings before I do; but even so, during winter, it's dark already when she gets home. But a geofence notices when she gets to within about a quarter mile of the house. Upon that trigger, the driveway and front porch lights come on, and the thermostat heat set point gets changed from the away setting to 68 degrees. The lights in the foyer and living room come on as well. That way, when either of us arrive home, it's not to a dark house.

- In the reverse scenario, she leaves before I do in the morning, and I drop the kid off at school on my way to work. I can walk out of the house with most of the lights on, the TV left on, the heater on, etc, and know that anything I forgot to turn off will be shut down about 20 minutes after I leave, and the heater will never be accidentally left on for the day.

- When I go to bed at night, one button on a multi-button keypad on the wall by my bed puts the house into "bedtime" mode. Most of the lights get shut down, and light levels for motion sensors in the hallway and bathroom are changed so that if you get up in the middle of the night, the motion sensors only kick the lights on to about 15% brightness (and at a 2.5 second ramp rate rather than instantaneously) so you're not blinded. During the day, those settings are changed back to 90% brightness and a .1 second ramp rate.

- I have an IP camera over the front door, along with a motion sensor for the light. If there is motion while I am away, I get a Prowl notification with a URL I can click that shows me a still image from the camera.

- The lights in my fish tank are tied to sunrise / sunset time instead of absolute times, so the fish get seasons. Sort of, anyway.

You're really only limited by your imagination and your budget. Unfortunately, this kind of setup is only possible at this time for someone willing to invest a non-trivial amount of time and money in the process. It's become a hobby, so I don't begrudge the process. And, quite frankly, I've learned a hell of a lot of stuff that was previously way outside my comfort zone.
That is beautiful! The fun that I've had in the past was with the sprinklers and making the end objective the quantity of water to be delivered to the lawn. The basic formula is:
W=Seasonal water needed - ((yesterday water)*0.75 + (water predicted)*chance)
(Done from memory... We've moved since I've had that. Anyway, our water bill went down, and we weren't watering during a torrential downpour.
 
If I was Crestron or Control 4, I would be scared. If I was Indigo or iSY99 I would try very hard to jump on the bandwagon and not be left behind.
See, I don't think Crestron or Control4 need to be too worried. Their market is in installed systems that they maintain, and their customer base is people with a decent amount of disposable income.

If I were Indigo, I would be looking to port my existing OS X app to iOS, and run it on the ATV. That might even tempt me to go back to them. The ISY folks are more of an open-source type crowd, and are rather wary of HomeKit at this point, but are open to supporting it if it's within their means.

The real kicker right now is whether the automation protocol wars go the way of VHS/BetaMAX, with a single dominant winner emerging, or more like console games, with multiple proprietary formats surviving. Seems like everyone has their own "best" way of communicating, and little of it is compatible without public APIs being provided.
 
Agreed. Eventually this convenience will be a disaster for someone. Just as automobiles, the internet, credit cards, washing machines, toaster ovens, electricity, fire, wheels, pulleys, and inclined planes have each been disasters for someone.

The question is whether these labor saving devices add enough value to our lives to make them worth using, or whether we should just forego them all and huddle together under a tree for warmth and hope some tasty berries roll buy so we can have something to eat.
My issue is not with home automation, it is with cloud controlled home automation. Just look at those internet connected Chryslers that were hacked. Some things don't need to be on the internet. They work just fine without it. UBNT makes home automation equipment that does not go on the internet, I'm sure there are others as well.
 
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