I'm calibrating my battery every day! Good or bad ?

[Pax]

As I said, if you only use 40%, then recharge it, you haven't used a complete cycle. If you intentionally drain it all the way, when you only needed to drain it 40%, you have added a cycle when you didn't need to.

Yeah, you're right reading it a second time. I misunderstood first time.

It hinges on the meaning of "intentionally" & "needed" - it sounds like in your picture you are imagining a user draining the battery without doing anything useful - say leaving your Mac on a shelf awake for a couple of hours to use up all the battery. Then you're absolutely right, that 0.6 of a cycle has been "wasted" - you have used 1.0 cycles when if you'd recharged it you would have only used 0.4 of a cycle.

Your later post makes it clear what you meant. And I agree.

 

[questionmarc]

i prefer to drain my whole battery once i disconnected the charger.
if you look how a Li battery is charged, you see, that it starts with a high current and a low voltage when the battery is empty.
(imagine a bag you are packing with clothes: in the beginning you can throw a lot of stuff in, but when the bag gets full, you need more pressure to fill the bag completely. it is similar with the battery.)
when the battery gets fuller the voltage is rising, and the current gets lower. so you charge with less energy per time the fuller the battery is.
the high voltage charging is more stressful for the battery, while the charging the empty battery is almost effortless.
so charging the last 10% is almost the same aging for the battery then charging the entire battery.
that's why i always try to drain my MacBook completely before recharging it.

 

[GGJstudios]

i prefer to drain my whole battery once i disconnected the charger....
that's why i always try to drain my MacBook completely before recharging it.

You're misinformed.

From http://www.apple.com/batteries/

Standard Technology
Lithium-ion polymer batteries pack in a higher power density than nickel-based batteries. This gives you a longer battery life in a lighter package, as lithium is the lightest metal. You can also recharge a lithium-ion polymer battery whenever convenient, without the full charge or discharge cycle necessary to keep nickel-based batteries at peak performance. (Over time, crystals build up in nickel-based batteries and prevent you from charging them completely, necessitating an inconvenient full discharge.)

 

[questionmarc]

@GGJstudios
Li-batteries are the best we have today and they can handle it way better to be charged during the cycle, compared to nickel batteries. but still the high voltage charging at the end of the process is the part where the battery is working the hardest. and if you go more often through this part, your battery gets worn out faster. I'm just saying if you want to get the most out of your battery, try to discharge your battery completely if possible.
but first of all use your computer that you enjoy it. the battery life will be good anyway.

 

[glavoie84]

Just finished the test. My 13" MBP shut itself down at just over 3.4V per cell (10237mV from the system information app) under load which is still WAY over the dangerous limit for lithium cells.

A lot of misinformation here...

Draining the battery to 0% WILL NOT DAMAGE it!

The truth is, draining a Li-Ion under 3V (under load) WILL DAMAGE it. Do it once and you can lose permanently as much as half the battery capacity. I've experienced it with loose cells.

With a laptop battery pack, this is a non-issue. There is electronic present to protect against overcharge and against overdischarge. More than that, most overdischarge protection consider 0% to be way over 3V to protect against imbalance between cells in the battery pack. I think I've seen 3.6V but I never checked with my MacBook. I'll be back on this when I finish discharging it.

The worse thing for laptop battery pack is heat. Lithium batteries permanently lose capacity much faster in a hot environment and a notebook will often run hotter when plugged.

In my experience, I've seen more batteries die faster from not being used than from being used. At the price it cost to replace them, it's better to use them when you need it, even if it means cycling it once or more a day. No batteries are made equal and it's also a matter of luck for it to die quickly or to last for years. I've seen in this forum people posting screenshots of coconutBattery with over 900 cycles in less than 3 years with capacity over 90%. When I had a ThinkPad, I always ran it plugged most of the time and my battery went under 80% with less than 100 cycles in under 2 years then quickly under 50% before it got to its 3th year...

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

Good or bad? Seems unproductive and a waste of time. So I'm glad you're keeping your tools in good condition by not using them. That sounds thuper smart.

 

[melvinchien]

thanks for your awesome post! really informative and its in plain english so normal people can understand haha =]

 

[mingoglia]

I had one laptop that I was extremely anal about how I charged it because I wanted to get the best life out of it. The battery lost capacity quickly and I was irritated because I purposely didn't use it how I wanted to to try to conserve the battery. If I just USED it and it started losing capacity I would have justified it to myself and actually not been upset. Ever since then I just use my battery however I need to get what I'm trying to accomplish done. If the capacity is reduced I'll know I got good use out of it and will happily replace it.

With that being said if I'm running it on battery and I find myself close to power I'll typically plug it in when it gets to about 40-50% or so. I mainly due that because I want to keep it relatively charged in case I need to go somewhere that may not have power. Don't want to leave myself short on power as there are a lot of restaurants, coffee shops, etc that have limited outlets.

 

[maratus]

Each battery is at its best being 50-70% charged.
High charge and deep discharge both are worst possible states and should be avoided.

But I don't care.

 

[Mara-C]

I learned something new reading here... I got a battery problem but am not allowed to post a new thread as I have not 20 post yet

 

[GGJstudios]

I learned something new reading here... I got a battery problem but am not allowed to post a new thread as I have not 20 post yet

There is no minimum post requirement to start a thread. However, you'll usually find answers to your questions faster if you use MRoogle to search the forums for existing threads, as most questions have already been answered dozens of times.

Post #23 in this thread should answer most, if not all, of your battery questions. Be sure to read it all.

 

[x0r-lord]

There is no minimum post requirement to start a thread. However, you'll usually find answers to your questions faster if you use MRoogle to search the forums for existing threads, as most questions have already been answered dozens of times.

Post #23 in this thread should answer most, if not all, of your battery questions. Be sure to read it all.

Anybody whose looking for more advanced information on Lithium Cobalt Oxide Batteries like those in the MBP can check out Http://www.BatteryUniversity.com, or the Wikipedia article on Lithium-Ion Polymer Batteries.

what you'll learn is that the battery lifecycle is directly related to speed at which the battery is charged and discharged. more charge over less time = more damage. plain and simple.

BTW. for those curious why apple doesn't allow the trickle charge to charge the battery above 93-99% on intel macs. its designed to reduce damages caused by trickle overcharging plating metallic lithium inside the battery casing.(causes fires/explosions). Current loads of 1C are ideal (same discharge/charge rate), higher then that significantly reduces life.

I Quote Battery university here
"3.92V/cell is the best upper voltage threshold for cobalt-based lithium-ion. Charging batteries to this voltage level has been shown to double cycle life."

Best bet = keep computer plugged in for intense activities like photoshop/handbrake/CAD etc..

 

[arcryliss]

people, how about during the calibrating process, i put my MBP into sleep mode? meaning:

1) i did charge my MBP for 2 hours or longer.
2) i disconnect the AC power and use my battery in my MBP. then, i put on sleep mode coz i went out.
3) when i came back, i just continue to use the machine as usual.

question: does it consider as calibrating process or not? coz i put the machine into sleep mode during the 'battery time'?

thanks.

 

[GGJstudios]

people, how about during the calibrating process, i put my MBP into sleep mode? meaning:

1) i did charge my MBP for 2 hours or longer.
2) i disconnect the AC power and use my battery in my MBP. then, i put on sleep mode coz i went out.
3) when i came back, i just continue to use the machine as usual.

question: does it consider as calibrating process or not? coz i put the machine into sleep mode during the 'battery time'?

thanks.

As long as you didn't plug it back in after you started draining it, it's fine. You could have just let it run down while you were out, rather than putting it in sleep mode. Use Caffeine to keep it awake during the calibration process, since it drains faster than it does in sleep mode.

 

[arcryliss]

As long as you didn't plug it back in after you started draining it, it's fine. You could have just let it run down while you were out, rather than putting it in sleep mode. Use Caffeine to keep it awake during the calibration process, since it drains faster than it does in sleep mode.

thank you! really helpful!

 

[Peter Franks]

Just to confuse the issue a bit more......

Does it matter if you charge from when the battery is at 20 or 30% or less, but don't have time to wait for full charge up to 100%. Does it do any damage to battery if we don't always charge to full capacity, in other words charging for a short period to just get it up to 60 or 80%? And not always leaving it till 100%

Can we change the maH reading to a percentage on the new MBP?

 

[GGJstudios]

Just to confuse the issue a bit more......

Does it matter if you charge from when the battery is at 20 or 30% or less, but don't have time to wait for full charge up to 100%. Does it do any damage to battery if we don't always charge to full capacity, in other words charging for a short period to just get it up to 60 or 80%? And not always leaving it till 100%

Unless you're calibrating, you can plug/unplug any time you need to, regardless of the percentage charge remaining. The lithium polymer batteries used in Apple portables do not suffer from "memory effect" that NiCd batteries have.

Can we change the maH reading to a percentage on the new MBP?

If you're referring to the Menu Bar icon, just click to select from the menu.

​

 

[Peter Franks]

Thanks GGJ, good to know

No, I was referring to the way you described checking the battery performance in the Hardware overview

 

[GGJstudios]

Thanks GGJ, good to know

No, I was referring to the way you described checking the battery performance in the Hardware overview

No, you can't change Hardware Overview to show a percentage, but you can use the Menu Bar icon or iStat Pro for that.

 

[ratzzo]

The official Apple website suggests that it be done once a month at least. Doing it on a daily basis seems like going over the top. Since its a li-ion battery, stressing it so much daily can't be all that good.

I mean, it's not going to damage the battery or shorten its life dramatically, but I would say.. take all things with moderation.

 

[GGJstudios]

The official Apple website suggests that it be done once a month at least. Doing it on a daily basis seems like going over the top.

Who said anything about calibrating daily, other than the OP over a year ago, which has already been addressed??

 

[Peter Franks]

No, you can't change Hardware Overview to show a percentage, but you can use the Menu Bar icon or iStat Pro for that.

The menu bar icon for life real time left on battery, but I may have read this wrong, but isn't the mah reading for battery health over a period of time. Just wondered what it's reading now, because I'm sure this new MBP's battery is not giving me what it should. The percentage goes so quick, Even the iPhone holds 100% after a bit of use.. Although that does get charged every day too

 

[GGJstudios]

The menu bar icon for life real time left on battery, but I may have read this wrong, but isn't the mah reading for battery health over a period of time. Just wondered what it's reading now, because I'm sure this new MBP's battery is not giving me what it should. The percentage goes so quick, Even the iPhone holds 100% after a bit of use.. Although that does get charged every day too

My mistake. I thought you were asking about the charge remaining. Yes, the battery health, described as mAh in Hardware Overview, can be viewed as a percentage using any of the 3 apps mentioned in the CHECKING STATUS AND HEALTH section of the Battery FAQ. It doesn't show on the Menu Bar.

 

[Peter Franks]

Thanks, should normal use with Word, Safari, Mail give at least the quoted 7 hours or so on a new Mac?

 

[ratzzo]

Who said anything about calibrating daily, other than the OP over a year ago, which has already been addressed??

Eugh, sorry. So many threads have been revived from the dead today