iMac 27 2012 - Hard drive failing?

conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
Hi everyone,

I found my iMac slow recently and I decided to make a backup to reinstall. The issue is that it fails sometime when I copy a folder with the error of -36... Retried again, same issue.
I tried Carbon Copy Clone to copy the whole user folder that includes the desktop, download, music, video... etc. Looked at the results this morning and it said that some files where not able to copy because of an error in the location of file on the hard drive.

I guess it says: you're hard drive is going to stop working soon. What do you think?

I have no problem opening the iMac, I already did it to fix the hinge issue.

I wanted to know if you had any suggestion for the hard drive. At the moment it's a 3TB fusion drive.

So I had a look at this 3TB https://www.amazon.ca/Seagate-Barra...502194248&sr=8-1&keywords=Hard+drive+3tb&th=1

Is that good or should I get something else?

Thanks
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Nehalem
Feb 21, 2012
36,412
25,228
Behind the Lens, UK
Hi everyone,

I found my iMac slow recently and I decided to make a backup to reinstall. The issue is that it fails sometime when I copy a folder with the error of -36... Retried again, same issue.
I tried Carbon Copy Clone to copy the whole user folder that includes the desktop, download, music, video... etc. Looked at the results this morning and it said that some files where not able to copy because of an error in the location of file on the hard drive.

I guess it says: you're hard drive is going to stop working soon. What do you think?

I have no problem opening the iMac, I already did it to fix the hinge issue.

I wanted to know if you had any suggestion for the hard drive. At the moment it's a 3TB fusion drive.

So I had a look at this 3TB https://www.amazon.ca/Seagate-BarraCuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST3000DM008/dp/B01LNJBA2I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502194248&sr=8-1&keywords=Hard+drive+3tb&th=1

Is that good or should I get something else?

Thanks
If I was going to the trouble of opening up my iMac, at this stage I'd add an SSD hd.
 
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conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
If I was going to the trouble of opening up my iMac, at this stage I'd add an SSD hd.
:) I thought about it but a 1TB SSD is 450$CAD. Very different from a 3 TB at 140$.

I was saying to myself that there was already a 120GB SSD inside, soldered to the motherboard, I think, the one that does fusion drive and it would have been enough but at 450$ for a 1TB (https://www.amazon.ca/Samsung-2-5-I...pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1502196879&sr=1-3&keywords=ssd), ishhhhhh. I could go 512, but we all know that apps are taking a lot of space now and I might get very limited...
[doublepost=1502197463][/doublepost]The weird thing is I do a command or option + D at the restart of the computer, do a system hardware check, and it comes back with no issues. I use the "SOS" option in the disk utility, same thing, comes back without any error messages...
[doublepost=1502199324][/doublepost]Owwww, and ifixit doesn't have the strips in stock...
 
Last edited:

ZapNZs

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2017
2,310
1,155
http://osxdaily.com/2015/02/21/fix-error-code-36-finder-mac-os-x/

One of the SMART Apps might provide valuable information to try to narrow down whether or not this is the actual HDD failing. I use DriveDX but it is paid (there is a free trial) - SmartMonTools is free (and IIRC DriveDX is based on SmartMonTools, but with a much nicer UI.) (In my experience, OS X has been less consistent at detecting failing HDDs/SSDs than the SMART program, as I've had several instances where OS X continued to report a failing or failed drive was still OK that the SMART program flagged [and the drive was indeed failing or had failed].)

There seems to be a lot of personal preference with brands/tiers. I use the HGST UltraStar a lot for my 3.5-inch drives - I find they are incredibly reliable, noisy (they are enterprise drives & so noise reduction was pretty low on the priorities), unusually fast for 7200 RPM HDDs, and expensive. For 2.5 inch drives, I use the WD Black 2.5 and HGST TravelStar. I've interacted with both WD and HGST customer service for warranty claims and was extremely happy with both (they are now both the same company as HGST was purchased by WD.)

In terms of consumer level 3.5-inch drives, one model that may be worth checking out is the WD Black when it is priced right. It has good performance and solid reviews (just like some other 7200 RPM models in its tier) - however, it also has a 5 year warranty, versus the industry average of 2 or 3 for consumer drives. Given the higher probability of failure after year 3, having this warranty with 2 years covering where the chance of failure is considered to be higher is something I consider nice to have and enough to justify spending a little more (within reason).



That said, while I use HDDs extensively for data storage and backup, I don't think I could ever go back to using them as part of the local disk (even if fused.) Sometimes 1TB SSDs like the SanDisk SSD Plus or Crucial MX300 go on sale in the US for under $250 USD :)
 
Last edited:

conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
Thanks so much. Ill have a look at the software's. But I do think there is an issue with the hard drive, I already reinstalled MacOS, clean install and it hangs quite often and I get the beautiful rainbow circle... Some pictures in the aperture library are "missing" when I try to open them using the name. Finder finds them but it doesn't open... I ordered a Samsung 850 Evo 1TB at 450$ CAD... and 2 set of adhesive strips for the 27 iMac... Oh Well!
[doublepost=1502279058][/doublepost]Oh and I did try the dot_clean on my user folder - no luck.
[doublepost=1502279333][/doublepost]I also saw a recall for 3TB HDD in iMacs in 2012 but the recall ended in 2015... I might be one with the issue... In MacOS it says the Smart is verified... I will try DriveDX, we'll see! I also had recently a white screen of death if we can call it this way with text but the message doesn't say much...
[doublepost=1502279546][/doublepost]Could it be the CPU or 1 of the core of the CPU failing?
[doublepost=1502279728][/doublepost]Maybe I should buy https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01IEKG4NE/ref=twister_B01IK57UNQ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 instead of the 450$ SSD 1TB... lol it's 300 less... and I have fusion drive, geez I don't know!
 

vkd

macrumors 6502a
Sep 10, 2012
909
310
It might be a RAM card that is failing, have you tested them all? Once happened to me.
 

conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
Oh haven't checked that. Any software to test this?
[doublepost=1502293010][/doublepost]but I've done the hardware test when doing the OPTION+D when booting and it came back clean. Not sure what it test exactly...
 

ZapNZs

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2017
2,310
1,155
Thanks so much. Ill have a look at the software's. But I do think there is an issue with the hard drive, I already reinstalled MacOS, clean install and it hangs quite often and I get the beautiful rainbow circle... Some pictures in the aperture library are "missing" when I try to open them using the name. Finder finds them but it doesn't open... I ordered a Samsung 850 Evo 1TB at 450$ CAD... and 2 set of adhesive strips for the 27 iMac... Oh Well!

[doublepost=1502279058][/doublepost]Oh and I did try the dot_clean on my user folder - no luck.

[doublepost=1502279333][/doublepost]I also saw a recall for 3TB HDD in iMacs in 2012 but the recall ended in 2015... I might be one with the issue... In MacOS it says the Smart is verified... I will try DriveDX, we'll see! I also had recently a white screen of death if we can call it this way with text but the message doesn't say much...

[doublepost=1502279546][/doublepost]Could it be the CPU or 1 of the core of the CPU failing?

[doublepost=1502279728][/doublepost]Maybe I should buy https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01IEKG4NE/ref=twister_B01IK57UNQ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 instead of the 450$ SSD 1TB... lol it's 300 less... and I have fusion drive, geez I don't know!
If it were me, I would personally use a second program to double check macOS' SMART status of 'Verified' given I've gotten this status from OS X on failing drives that other SMART Apps correctly identified.

Even though SMART is far from definitive, the DriveDX trial or SMARTmonTools might be a good way to confirm your suspicions of drive failure, as it sounds like you have ruled out software causes (provided that when you did the fresh reinstall that you experienced the functional issues before you restored any of your files from your backup - if you only experienced the functional issues after restoring the backup, that could suggest something different than internal drive failure.) (I also assume if you have tried a fresh reinstall and the Apple Diagnostics that you've already tried booting into safe mode and PRAM reset, without avail.)

I personally think it is unlikely that the CPU is failing - rather, I agree this sounds like it could be a hard drive issue, and it could perhaps also be a SATA cable failure? (If so, SMART may report certain transmission/interface errors, although these errors can also indicate other issues as well like those having to do with RAM or voltage, so it's not definitive but can still be a useful diagnostic tool.)
 
Last edited:

conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
Here are the results. Verdict? I was right?

Thanks for the suggestion of the software, it's neat! My "Fusion" 128GB status is Good with 83% life remaining.

So I replace my HDD 3TB now with a 1 TB SSD EVO 850 or a 3TB Seagate? :)

Note that I have in my hands the 1 TB SSD it arrived today.
BUT I as said, it's 450$ vs 140$...

Last thoughts? :)
 

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kohlson

macrumors 68020
Apr 23, 2010
2,269
667
IIRC, the value of SMART is that while it may incorrectly say that you drive is OK, if it says it's not, then it is really failing. So your drive is failing. If it were me I would copy the most important files to an alternate media right away.
 

ZapNZs

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2017
2,310
1,155
You definitely need a new hard drive!!! I don't have enough Seagate experience to comment on that specific model (as my HDD usage is mainly from certain HGST and Western Digital models). But I can say that the 850 EVO is an awesome drive that will serve you very well should you decide to keep it, and even when you get rid of that iMac you can throw it in an enclosure and still have a spectacular external SSD.
 

satinsilverem2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2013
733
211
Richmond, VA
Hi everyone,

I found my iMac slow recently and I decided to make a backup to reinstall. The issue is that it fails sometime when I copy a folder with the error of -36... Retried again, same issue.
I tried Carbon Copy Clone to copy the whole user folder that includes the desktop, download, music, video... etc. Looked at the results this morning and it said that some files where not able to copy because of an error in the location of file on the hard drive.

I guess it says: you're hard drive is going to stop working soon. What do you think?

I have no problem opening the iMac, I already did it to fix the hinge issue.

I wanted to know if you had any suggestion for the hard drive. At the moment it's a 3TB fusion drive.

So I had a look at this 3TB https://www.amazon.ca/Seagate-BarraCuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST3000DM008/dp/B01LNJBA2I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502194248&sr=8-1&keywords=Hard+drive+3tb&th=1

Is that good or should I get something else?

Thanks
Actually the 2012 iMacs with 3TB drives were recalled a couple of years because of the defective Seagate ST3000DM001 drives that Apple used. I actually had a RAID setup consisting of four of those drives and all of them failed within a year so they were all defective across the board. As to replacing it you can either put another HDD in its place and retain the fusion setup or you can install an SSD. Samsung is the only SSD that I use with Macs and I haven't had a single issue. Keep in mind that what ever you replace it with you are going to have to get the OWC thermal sensor to keep the fans in check.

Recall.
https://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/19/apple-27-imac-3tb-hdd-replacement-program/

Thermal Sensor
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DIDIMACHDD12/
 

conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
Great! I replaced with the 1TB, my iMac is now sealed again! haha.

Oh well, I guess I didn't know about that thermal sensor. Is it really required?
"""
  • Required for any drive installed into the main drive bay.
  • Eliminate fan noise and maintain correct system fan control when upgrading your 2012 or later iMac.
  • The only iMac HDD upgrade option on the market certified to pass the Apple Hardware Test.
  • Fixes firmware incompatibility issues with third party hard drives.
  • Engineered in-house and backed by OWC's award-winning customer support.
"""

I had a little issue, I bough a corsair bracket for the SSD but I can only use 2 screws. I suppose I have to get a different bracket such as https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/ADPTADRV/ but I'm wondering, there is the sata/power adapter on that bracket, could it slow down the data rate?

The PCI-E 128GB fusion is no use now? I left it in there, haha
[doublepost=1502368471][/doublepost]I just bought the https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/ADPTADRV/ and https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DIDIMACHDD12/. I guess I had to do it! :)
Let's see how long it takes to come to Canada!
 
Last edited:

satinsilverem2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2013
733
211
Richmond, VA
Great! I replaced with the 1TB, my iMac is now sealed again! haha.

Oh well, I guess I didn't know about that thermal sensor. Is it really required?
"""
  • Required for any drive installed into the main drive bay.
  • Eliminate fan noise and maintain correct system fan control when upgrading your 2012 or later iMac.
  • The only iMac HDD upgrade option on the market certified to pass the Apple Hardware Test.
  • Fixes firmware incompatibility issues with third party hard drives.
  • Engineered in-house and backed by OWC's award-winning customer support.
"""

I had a little issue, I bough a corsair bracket for the SSD but I can only use 2 screws. I suppose I have to get a different bracket such as https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/ADPTADRV/ but I'm wondering, there is the sata/power adapter on that bracket, could it slow down the data rate?

The PCI-E 128GB fusion is no use now? I left it in there, haha
[doublepost=1502368471][/doublepost]I just bought the https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/ADPTADRV/ and https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DIDIMACHDD12/. I guess I had to do it! :)
Let's see how long it takes to come to Canada!
I believe it is required as if the computer can't see the temps from the drive then it will force the fans to run at 100 percent. bracket won't slow it down as its just a pass through. as for the old ssd yes it should still be seen by the OS you're going to have to reformat the drives and install as you have divorced the fusion setup.
 

conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
I believe it is required as if the computer can't see the temps from the drive then it will force the fans to run at 100 percent. bracket won't slow it down as its just a pass through. as for the old ssd yes it should still be seen by the OS you're going to have to reformat the drives and install as you have divorced the fusion setup.
When I install the new bracket and that thermal sensor, do I have to reinstall MacOS? Since there is a new pass through or the new install of yesterday should be fine?
[doublepost=1502370499][/doublepost]Oh and is there any tweaks to do for the new SSD? I had opened another thread and it was mentioned to use "sudo forcetrim enable", is that all? How about turning off hard rives when not in use, etc?
 

satinsilverem2

macrumors 6502a
Nov 12, 2013
733
211
Richmond, VA
When I install the new bracket and that thermal sensor, do I have to reinstall MacOS? Since there is a new pass through or the new install of yesterday should be fine?
[doublepost=1502370499][/doublepost]Oh and is there any tweaks to do for the new SSD? I had opened another thread and it was mentioned to use "sudo forcetrim enable", is that all? How about turning off hard rives when not in use, etc?
you'll have to reinstall the OS regardless because you are changing the drives out. as for trim any modern SSD has garbage collection built in so TRIM isn't as necessary as it used to be. I would disable the HDD sleep setting as with SSDs its negligible with power use.
 

conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
The drive has already been changed. I installed Sierra on the new SSD 1TB yesterday.

Super - I won't activate the trim then!

Thanks!
 
Last edited:

SaSaSushi

macrumors 601
Aug 8, 2007
4,100
493
Takamatsu, Japan
as for trim any modern SSD has garbage collection built in so TRIM isn't as necessary as it used to be.
Wrong!! Garbage collection is absolutely not the same as TRIM and is no replacement for it.

Super - I won't activate the trim then!
Bad choice! You absolutely want to enable TRIM.

After doing so I'd advise you to boot into single user mode (command-S at boot) and run:

fsck -fy

in order to trim unused blocks.
 

conamor

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 27, 2013
331
19
Wrong!! Garbage collection is absolutely not the same as TRIM and is no replacement for it.



Bad choice! You absolutely want to enable TRIM.

After doing so I'd advise you to boot into single user mode (command-S at boot) and run:

fsck -fy

in order to trim unused blocks.
Oh ok! I had it activated as soon as MacOS Sierra was installed. I will restart the machine and use your command!

Thanks
 

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