iMac 27 2017 or Wait ?

[xzebra]

I would like to thank all those that helped me on the previous forum shown below regarding switching from PC to iMac. I do have another question regarding the rumors of an update version coming. Would I be wise to wait or just pull the plug? I know there are always newer better devices of any sort, but I am not as familiar with the updated Apple products (never followed it much).

Again thanks for your assistance!


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/switching-from-pc.2106907/#post-25835504

 

[nambuccaheadsau]

If you want it get it. Who knows when an update will come. I would have thought not before the end of this year.

 

[Juicy Box]

I would say if you need/want it, get it now.

I doubt anyone on here knows when the next iMac will be out, but the average wait between updates is 371 days. The time since the last update isn't close to the average.

Also, the averages are tending to be too low for most Macs recently, so I would bet that the next iMac will be close to the current average. The 2017 iMac took almost twice the average.

From a technical perspective, I have read that there is not a suitable GPU upgrade for the next iMac except the one in the iMac Pro.

And I doubt Apple will release a new iMac with the old GPU, or release one with the GPU from their "Pro" line, potentially cannibalizing sales.
[doublepost=1519341634][/doublepost]Some other thoughts.

I would not be surprised if we did not see another iMac release until sometime in 2019. In general, it seems like most of the Macintosh line is having a larger and larger gap in between updates. Sadly, this might be the new norm.

Also, the iMac is overdue for a design change. The thing is, I doubt Apple will release a re-designed iMac since it just released the iMac Pro. So the current design may last for a few more cycles.

 

[Florida Gator]

If you need it, get it now, as the saying says.

But, if you can wait 4 months, it might be worth waiting for WWDC to see if they make any bumps. Then you can either get the 2018 model or you can pick up a 2017 model at a discount.

 

[AZhappyjack]

As others have said, just get it. The new iMacs are not expected for another few months, and it's doubtful that the new models will have more than the modest spec bump.

 

[casperes1996]

I'm personally expecting new iMacs sometime around October with 8th den Intel chips (6 cores) and Vega GPUs - not the high end Vegas from the iMac Pro, but cut down 7nm Vega chips, like something along the line of a Vega 48.

 

[Mac32]

What I can tell you is that the Vega Pro 64 in my iMac Pro is running HOT. If you push the GPU to the max (think Crysis 1-3 in 1140p or 2160p with very high/extreme settings), even with fans at a static base speed of 2200rpm, the GPU will reach 95C. Neither the VRAM or the GPU throttles until 95C, and then only very short dips are made to keep the temp below that. Could be the unofficial Bootcamp GPU driver (using an RX 580 driver) is partly too blame, who knows. But it's pretty crazy, there's basically no overclock headroom here. My old late 2012 iMac could be overclocked aggressively, and have decent temperatures.

One thing's for sure, you can forget about Vega Pro 64, or even Vega Pro 56, in the regular iMac. The high end model will probably be Vega 48 +6 core CPU

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I'm personally expecting new iMacs sometime around October with 8th den Intel chips (6 cores) and Vega GPUs - not the high end Vegas from the iMac Pro, but cut down 7nm Vega chips, like something along the line of a Vega 48.

Yeah, I agree, with Ryzen pushing Intel to add more cores to their model lines, I suspect the i5 iMacs to have 6 cores / 6 threads, and the i7s to have 6 core 12 threads. It will be a significant bump in base performance. I also wonder if Apple will be spec'ing the Intel+Vega APUs for the next iMac and maybe even mini.

That said, if OP isn't desperate for more cores, today's models should be good. I know I didn't wait, but I was shopping the Apple Refurb store, and it will be a long time before the 2018 iMac shows up there.

 

[casperes1996]

Yeah, I agree, with Ryzen pushing Intel to add more cores to their model lines, I suspect the i5 iMacs to have 6 cores / 6 threads, and the i7s to have 6 core 12 threads. It will be a significant bump in base performance. I also wonder if Apple will be spec'ing the Intel+Vega APUs for the next iMac and maybe even mini.

That said, if OP isn't desperate for more cores, today's models should be good. I know I didn't wait, but I was shopping the Apple Refurb store, and it will be a long time before the 2018 iMac shows up there.

Well, we already know that Intel are pushing up the core count - look at the 8700.
[doublepost=1519347664][/doublepost]

What I can tell you is that the Vega Pro 64 in my iMac Pro is running HOT. If you push the GPU to the max (think Crysis 1-3 in 1140p or 2160p with very high/extreme settings), even with fans at a static base speed of 2200rpm, the GPU will reach 95C. Neither the VRAM or the GPU throttles until 95C, and then only very short dips are made to keep the temp below that. Could be the unofficial Bootcamp GPU driver (using an RX 580 driver) is partly too blame, who knows. But it's pretty crazy, there's basically no overclock headroom here. My old late 2012 iMac could be overclocked aggressively, and have decent temperatures.

One thing's for sure, you can forget about Vega Pro 64, or even Vega Pro 56, in the regular iMac. The high end model will probably be Vega 48 +6 core CPU

Hahaha. That's funny, man! When I play games on my iMac, the fan runs at 3500RPM. That's an R9 M295X. If you can keep it running at 2200RPM I'd call that that overclocking headroom you mentioned. Plus with the fan at 3500RPM, my GPU still hits 105C. (That's it's TJunction)

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

Well, we already know that Intel are pushing up the core count - look at the 8700.

Yeah, I could have worded that a little better. I guess I mean it almost seems like a given that 2018 iMacs will gain a couple extra cores, unless Apple decides to start with the i3 and make the i5s and i7s upgrades. I suspect they'll stick with the same i5/i7 scheme and boast of 50% more CPU performance instead. Personally, I'd love to see them use Ryzen in something. Raven Ridge APUs just seem like a good fit for Apple's product lines. I can dream, anyway.

 

[EugW]

If you can wait, definitely wait. 6-core 27" iMac models are virtually guaranteed to come out this year. The Core i5-8400 is shaping up to be a beast of a CPU in comparison to 2017 models, yet is lowish power.

Right now the chips are as follows in the 27" iMac:

7700K
7600K
7600
7500

Note that the 7400 doesn't even make the list. Yet, the 8400 is its replacement, and is significantly faster than the 7600K in some workloads.

It even can give the 7700K a run for its money.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I would like to thank all those that helped me on the previous forum shown below regarding switching from PC to iMac. I do have another question regarding the rumors of an update version coming. Would I be wise to wait or just pull the plug? I know there are always newer better devices of any sort, but I am not as familiar with the updated Apple products (never followed it much).

Again thanks for your assistance!


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/switching-from-pc.2106907/#post-25835504

What are your needs for your new Mac?

 

[casperes1996]

What are your needs for your new Mac?

Somebody asking the question we probably all should have...

 

[JustMartin]

What are your needs for your new Mac?

Covered in the linked post

 

[Mac32]

Well, we already know that Intel are pushing up the core count - look at the 8700.
[doublepost=1519347664][/doublepost]


Hahaha. That's funny, man! When I play games on my iMac, the fan runs at 3500RPM. That's an R9 M295X. If you can keep it running at 2200RPM I'd call that that overclocking headroom you mentioned. Plus with the fan at 3500RPM, my GPU still hits 105C. (That's it's TJunction)

105C is YIKES! 😛 I'm still figuring out the iMac Pro, since I've only had it for a good week. After setting the fans at 2350rpm (max is 2500), things look better. Going from 1900-2000 to 2200rpm didn't make much difference, but 2350rpm got the GPU temps from maxing out at mid-high 90s to 85-91C. The fans at 2350rpm make similar noise as my old iMac (late 2012) at the same speed, which isn't so bad. But you can always use headphones, problem solved. If only we got proper GPU drivers, then we could try some undervolting, which can have big effects.

Regarding comparisons to Nvidia, don't forget AMD has superior DX12 and Vulkan support. Several key games have announced Vulkan support (Star Citizen, Rise of the Tomb Raider etc.), and the CryTech engine added Vulkan. DX12 is becoming more common too. Don't underestimate the Vega Pro 64, if you enjoy some gaming on the side.

PS: Crysis 1, what a game. Just installed it again, and now I can finally play it in all its glory = 2160p/4K, highest CCC 2.21 setting, Crysis 3 textures (HD Textures pack 2016), Advanced AI mod. First off, this must the best visuals I've ever seen in a game, the presentation and style is pretty much perfect. Also, with the Advanced AI mod, the AI is possibly the most varied and challenging I've seen in a PC game. Can't believe this game is 11 years old now, lol.

 

[casperes1996]

105C is YIKES! 😛 I'm still figuring out the iMac Pro, since I've only had it for a good week. After setting the fans at 2350rpm (max is 2500), things look better. Going from 1900-2000 to 2200 didn't make much difference, but 2350rpm got the GPU temps from maxing out at mid-high 90s to high 80s - for the most GPU intensive games (think Crysis 3). I can live with Vega Pro 64 GPU maxing out between 85-89C, but 94-97C is not a good feeling. The fans at 2350rpm make similar noise as my old iMac (late 2012) at the same speed, which isn't so bad. But you can always use headphones, problem solved.

As said, 105C is TJunction, so technically the chip is rated for it. Problem is those few times it's hit 110C and the Mac automatically went to sleep to prevent death.

Regarding max fan speeds, don't be cheated. My iMac reports a maximum fan speed of 2700. As said, it can run at 3500RPM. I can't manually set that speed with tools like MacsFanControl, unless the fans are already running that fast when I open the app though.

 

[fathergll]

If you can wait, definitely wait. 6-core 27" iMac models are virtually guaranteed to come out this year. The Core i5-8400 is shaping up to be a beast of a CPU in comparison to 2017 models, yet is lowish power.

Eh, I'm not sure why you think an update is virtually guaranteed to come this year. I agree with vertical smile in that the major monkey wrench is that the iMac Pro was just released. I don't know if Apple is going to release iMacs so soon after. There was a 601 day wait from the last update to the previous one. On top of these Apple has two products that need updating much more than the 2017 iMacs(Mac Pro and Mac Mini). I could see this playing out a lot of ways but I don't think anything is guaranteed unless you have better info for your prediction.

 

[Mac32]

The iMac Pro fan system is completely different from the regular iMac, and it seems 2500rpm is enough to control the GPU and CPU temperature fortunately. I must say I’m really enjoying my iMac Pro, just wish we could get some proper official driver support for the Vega Pro GPU.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

As said, 105C is TJunction, so technically the chip is rated for it. Problem is those few times it's hit 110C and the Mac automatically went to sleep to prevent death.

Regarding max fan speeds, don't be cheated. My iMac reports a maximum fan speed of 2700. As said, it can run at 3500RPM. I can't manually set that speed with tools like MacsFanControl, unless the fans are already running that fast when I open the app though.

It sounds like MFC can’t properly detect the iMP (yet?), and they recommend against using it to control fans. Maybe they’ll get it sorted out.
https://www.crystalidea.com/blog/fan-control-imac-pro

 

[Mac32]

It sounds like MFC can’t properly detect the iMP (yet?), and they recommend against using it to control fans. Maybe they’ll get it sorted out.
https://www.crystalidea.com/blog/fan-control-imac-pro

The maker of MFC has been trying to add support for iMac Pro Bootcamp, but Apple changed the SMC code for the iMac Pro, and he hasn’t found a solution yet. For now we have to set the fans with MFC in OSX, and then boot into Bootcamp. It’s not exactly ideal, but it’s our only option at this point.

 

[EugW]

Eh, I'm not sure why you think an update is virtually guaranteed to come this year. I agree with vertical smile in that the major monkey wrench is that the iMac Pro was just released. I don't know if Apple is going to release iMacs so soon after. There was a 601 day wait from the last update to the previous one. On top of these Apple has two products that need updating much more than the 2017 iMacs(Mac Pro and Mac Mini). I could see this playing out a lot of ways but I don't think anything is guaranteed unless you have better info for your prediction.

I predict based on my infallible crystal ball. 😉

But yeah fair point but I’m pretty sure Apple will release the 6-core this year. Given that the iMac Pro is mainly in a different market and was released in 2017 anyway, it’s pretty much irrelevant in this context.

Furthermore, just because another product like the Mac mini needs updating, that doesn’t mean the iMac can’t be. Again, what the Mac mini is doing is largely irrelevant in this context.

 

[casperes1996]

It sounds like MFC can’t properly detect the iMP (yet?), and they recommend against using it to control fans. Maybe they’ll get it sorted out.

I wasn't talking about the iMP. Just my regular iMac.

 

[fathergll]

I predict based on my infallible crystal ball. 😉

But yeah fair point but I’m pretty sure Apple will release the 6-core this year. Given that the iMac Pro is mainly in a different market and was released in 2017 anyway, it’s pretty much irrelevant in this context.

Furthermore, just because another product like the Mac mini needs updating, that doesn’t mean the iMac can’t be. Again, what the Mac mini is doing is largely irrelevant in this context.

I like the infallible crystal ball. I use it for my power ball lotto picks every year

But I don't necessary agree about the iMac Pro being irrelevant here. Yes it was released in Dec 14 2017....which was only 10 weeks ago. People were talking about these computers being aimed at completely different markets and what I noticed is that there was awfully a lot of regular iMac users buying these computers which leads me to believe they are actually serving a lot of the same market. You can even read them here, users going from old iMacs to iMac Pros. This isn't some exclusive market for Hollywood film editor crunching editing REDRAW workflows. Don't get me wrong, anything is possible with Apple for an update this year but I wouldn't be so certain on thinking these markets are that different. The one fact I do know is that a lot of the users who were traditionally buying iMac bought the iMac Pro. That means there is plenty of cross market use here.


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I agree the Mac Mini alone isn't going to stop any update I just mean Apple has a lot of new updates needed. They might not be trying to squeeze this many desktop updates out in a 12 month span (Dec 17 - Dec 18).

 

[EugW]

I like the infallible crystal ball. I use it for my power ball lotto picks every year

But I don't necessary agree about the iMac Pro being irrelevant here. Yes it was released in Dec 14 2017....which was only 10 weeks ago. People were talking about these computers being aimed at completely different markets and what I noticed is that there was awfully a lot of regular iMac users buying these computers which leads me to believe they are actually serving a lot of the same market. You can even read them here, users going from old iMacs to iMac Pros. This isn't some exclusive market for Hollywood film editor crunching editing REDRAW workflows. Don't get me wrong, anything is possible with Apple for an update this year but I wouldn't be so certain on thinking these markets are that different. The one fact I do know is that a lot of the users who were traditionally buying iMac bought the iMac Pro. That means there is plenty of cross market use here.


<a href="https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/thank-you-micro-center-1000-off.2106686/#post-25829557">Thank You Micro Center! $1000 Off</a>


I agree the Mac Mini alone isn't going to stop any update I just mean Apple has a lot of new updates needed. They might not be trying to squeeze this many desktop updates out in a 12 month span (Dec 17 - Dec 18).

I'm predicting Q3 2018 for the iMac non-Pro, maybe around 6 months from now or so, which would actually be roughly 9 months after the introduction of the iMac Pro.

As for the numbers buying the iMac Pro, it's still of course going to be way, way less than the numbers who buy iMacs. Furthermore, a bunch of them will be those choosing to buy the iMac Pro instead of waiting for the new Mac Pro.

 

[pier]

Yeah, the next iMacs will probably be better, but nobody knows when those will be released. Could be later this year, or next year.

Also, there has never been a best time to buy an iMac. The GPU performance bump has been considerable, and it's always best to buy Macs after a few iterations of the same model.