iMac Bondi-Blue Rev. A restoration

[JonnyGators]

I've never been a mac person, or a fan of macs. Most experiencing using them have not been pleasant. But recently I've been getting into the hobby of fixing up vintage computers, and I tend to gravitate towards machines I have some sort of personal connection to. Thinking back, I can remember many countless hours screaming obscenities at the iMacs in the DAW lab in college. So, when a video relating to an old iMac came up in my youtube feed, I somehow felt compelled to check out the eBay prices, and pick up one for a project.

Not ever really following the details of macs, or mac models, I had recalled the blue ones coming out first, and then other colors later. Looking up color names, I saw the blue was called blueberry - so I searched ebay for blueberry iMac, and found a rather reasonable buy it now, with affordable shipping, and pictures of it turning on. Not a bad place to start. After I pulled the trigger, I did more reading up, and found that actually the first ones were bondi-blue, and blueberry is different from them, so if I really wanted the earlier model, bondi-blue is what I should have searched for. But just my luck, the seller made the same mistake I did, and once I determined the difference and took a 2nd look at the pictures for the buy it now, I saw that it is a bondi-blue. Sweet. Whoever had it replaced the mouse with a laser mouse, so I had to track down a proper awful mouse for it separately.

Anyways, it arrived, in an iMac indigo box, and so I turned it on, and poked around. And confirmed that it is in fact a Rev. A. Sweet - if I'm gonna fix up an iMac, may as well be the absolute first model.

So far, some problems it is having.

Occasionally pop with a screen flicker. Which from searching I believe is the flyback transformer. Although today it didn't do it any. Not that I've been using it a whole lot. Anyways - it seems the options for that are to use it until it stops working, swap the analog board out for another one (which is probably nearly as old and who knows how long that will last), connect a different display (what's the point?), or buy a replacement flyback transformer and swap it out. Which would be a challenge. Anyways, I have time to figure that out.

Next problem, sometimes it decides it doesn't want to turn on. Usually happens after having been turned on recently. Once it happens - you can press the power button, or any combination of start up button combinations, it will not turn on. I have tried disconnecting the display cable to see if it's connected to the flyback transformer issue - but no go. If it sits for hours, like overnight, that seems to clear it up. The lithium ion battery is dead, no corrosion luckily, and I've read that sometimes they can act funny with a dead battery - replacement is on the way. Maybe a fresh battery inside will clear that issue? Will have to wait and see.

But, the biggest immediate problem is that the CD drive is dead. Absolutely will not read any disc I put in. I've cleaned the laser, but no luck. From searching online, the only option I can seem to find would be finding another iMac G3 tray CD-Rom drive. But I'm wondering if it might be possible to chase down a laser replacement. Just replacing the laser is a common fix in playstations 1 and 2 - anyone know of any replacement parts that might fit? Until I figure something out, I'm kinda stuck as far as factory resetting it, or playing around with more software.

 

[eyoungren]

For the problem with not starting, you might try a couple of things. First is PRAM (Parameter RAM). To reset PRAM. turn the Mac off. Turn it back on and immediately hold down CMD+OPTN+P+R. Keep holding down those keys until the Mac chimes no less than three times - then release.

If that does not work, then try a PMU (Power Management Unit) reset. That's a small button on the logicboard (yes, this is a Mac, we don't call them motherboards).

iMac G3 will not start up - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

Most likely, though, yes the PRAM battery is the problem.

It sounds like you're on top of the flyback transformer and I can't really help you with the optical drive. iMacs and iBooks really are not my thing, but I try and help if I can.

PS. If you're interested, there is an app called Mactracker that will show you every product Apple has ever made and all the info about it. Also, everymac.com is kind of the same thing.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Occasionally pop with a screen flicker. Which from searching I believe is the flyback transformer... Anyways - it seems the options for that are to use it until it stops working, swap the analog board out for another one (which is probably nearly as old and who knows how long that will last), connect a different display (what's the point?), or buy a replacement flyback transformer and swap it out. Which would be a challenge.

I also have an iMac G3 with a flyback transformer issue. If you're feeling daring enough, you can download the service manual for your model and use it to assist you with desoldering the transformer and replacing it. This is something that I'm considering tackling myself. A search within the PPC forum for "flyback transformer" will return results for several discussions regarding this issue.

But, the biggest immediate problem is that the CD drive is dead. Absolutely will not read any disc I put in. I've cleaned the laser, but no luck. From searching online, the only option I can seem to find would be finding another iMac G3 tray CD-Rom drive. But I'm wondering if it might be possible to chase down a laser replacement. Just replacing the laser is a common fix in playstations 1 and 2 - anyone know of any replacement parts that might fit? Until I figure something out, I'm kinda stuck as far as factory resetting it, or playing around with more software.

Mine also has a dead optical drive. I circumvented this deficiency by using USB to re-install MacOS and general software and I honestly do not miss the drive because I can transfer files via Ethernet or by simply copying them onto a USB stick. You can read the details of my experiences in this post in case they might be helpful to you.

 

[JonnyGators]

I've not found a way that USB can be of use for OS installs on this machine - booting to USB is not an option. I did manage to tear apart the CD-ROM drive to get to the laser part, to see if maybe an equal replacement could be put in it's place. It seems doable - if I can find an equivalent laser. Which....I'm not sure how to do that. With things like PS1 and PS2, they're easy to find - things like this, not so much. On top of that, I've found from documentation that the CD-ROM drive used on Rev. C and later tray models is a different part number, that is supposedly not interchangeable - so it has to be replaced with another bondi-blue tray. According to Apple. Anyways - I put everything back together, and now I have a CD-ROM drive that doesn't read discs ,and doesn't eject on it's own. I think I got a ribbon cable in the way of something. I did manage to find an eBay buy it now for 10 replacement drives - which says it's all the same model, but I see orange and bondi-blue buttons in the picture, sold as not working/for parts because they aren't tested. They look to be packed in bags as replacements. Not sure the story....but hoping I can find at least one working one, and give them all a test and resell extras as tested working to try and at least break even. I'm finding a big difference in tinkering with vintage PCs and vintage Apple computers as a hobby - PCs use a lot of standards, so there are lots of options to get things working. Apple's insistence on making so many things proprietary pretty much limits you to tracking down aging parts that happen to still work - not a good option to keep these things working long term. If I run into a broken CD-ROM drive on a PC, no problem - just grab a spare off the parts pile. Any IDE CD-ROM drive will work. Apple? Nope - only made that specific one for that specific computer, you're SOL!

 

[Amethyst1]

I've not found a way that USB can be of use for OS installs on this machine - booting to USB is not an option.

It may be - you may have to do it manually.

 

[JonnyGators]

Thanks, I'll read that over. What I'm getting stuck at is that most things I find online revolve around OS X. Which I believe would not be an ideal OS for this machine, so I've pretty much stayed away from things referencing that, planning on sticking with 8 or 9 versions. But - perhaps I need to get to X at least temporarily to get some functionality. I may need to add RAM though. Will start pursuing those paths, thanks for the nudge in that direction.

 

[Amethyst1]

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php?topic=3940.0

 

[TheShortTimer]

I've not found a way that USB can be of use for OS installs on this machine - booting to USB is not an option.

Did you try the process that was outlined in my thread? It got Tiger up and running on my iMac G3 via a USB installer. If not, @Amethyst1's links will hopefully help you.

I'm finding a big difference in tinkering with vintage PCs and vintage Apple computers as a hobby - PCs use a lot of standards, so there are lots of options to get things working. Apple's insistence on making so many things proprietary pretty much limits you to tracking down aging parts that happen to still work - not a good option to keep these things working long term. If I run into a broken CD-ROM drive on a PC, no problem - just grab a spare off the parts pile. Any IDE CD-ROM drive will work. Apple? Nope - only made that specific one for that specific computer, you're SOL!

Most Apple hardware from the late 90s up till recent years used off-the-shelf parts for components such as optical and storage drives. They're easily found on eBay and other places - from my experience. I've never had any trouble tracking down replacements or alternatives. Many "PC" components will happily work within a Mac because Apple adopted the standards.

Personally, I'd pursue the USB route for getting files onto the computer instead of going through the hassle of dismantling the computer to replace the optical drive but the choice is yours.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

I routinely boot optical media via USB1.1 on 233 & 333mhz imacs using an LG external super drive modelGP10NB20. This model has worked on literally every mac (30 at least Id say) Ive used it on.

LG GP10NB20: Super-Multi Portable External DVD Rewriter | LG USA

Get information on the LG GP10NB20. Find pictures, reviews, and technical specifications for this LG super-multi portable external DVD rewriter.

www.lg.com

That is how I installed OS9 and Panther on my bondi revB. These machines old CD drives are tired, flaky and hard to refurb, so I default to the external to keep wear to a minimum. Bootable USBs are a pain in the butt on PowerPC but doable. This video I think does a fair job of illustrating the process through Open Firmware to get it going.

The PRAM batteries on these are a must. I just refurbed a couple grape tray loaders (one with 8.6 and another with 9.1) for sale and both had issues booting, retaining memory (time date etc.) and the Pram battery fixes all of this. The last pram I swapped had a date of March 1999 lol. Looks like you've had yours open already, so you see where it is on the logic board.

Flyback? Yeah man, just use it until it breaks then replace what you need to. Since you have it open, you might consider upgrading the hard drive - its a standard 3.5 pata drive, so you can stick a 7200rpm in there vs the 5400 they shipped with and gain some performance. Heck, since you're replacing the pram batter, pull the cpu cage off and re paste the cpu. These shipped with thermal tape IIRC so you can use that, but I typically use a small tiny drop of thermal paste on the die as it works just as well and is easier for me to source. The last unit I refurbed, the tape had completely disintegrated into nothingness, so when I lifted the heatsink up, it looked like there was nothing there. Pretty crazy, but these things are 20+ years old at this point, so par for the course.

One caveat - on the tray loaders, it is very common for the cd tray face plate to get stuck and wont pop through flush with the front of the machine. The easy way to make that drive cooperative is to use a piece of thin cardboard (think the cardboard stock used on the back of a toy figure. Make a shim out of that, lay it underneath the cd drive, sticking out the front of the machine and when you drop the guts back down into its slot, the cardboard shim will guide that drive right up, over and past the bits it would otherwise hang up on.

Best of luck to you.

Lastly - that OS9 Lives build is fantastic.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Bootable USBs are a pain in the butt on PowerPC but doable.

It depends on the machine. On some it's a hassle requiring fiddling with Open Firmware whilst on others it's just a matter of holding down the Option key at boot. Why Apple failed to maintain a consistency across their models where the latter scenario was the standard procedure is baffling and annoying.

As I've suggested before, a sticky with a list of machines that can boot from USB without additional measures would be really helpful for the community - especially newcomers who find themselves in the OP's situation.

 

[DeltaMac]

Good luck finding that access door shown in post #2. That's only on the later G3 (with slot-loading optical drive).
The reset button on your early G3 is actually on the I/O panel, where the USB ports are located. The reset is a pin-hole near the ethernet port.

 

[eyoungren]

Good luck finding that access door shown in post #2. That's only on the later G3 (with slot-loading optical drive).
The reset button on your early G3 is actually on the I/O panel, where the USB ports are located. The reset is a pin-hole near the ethernet port.

Thanks for the correction. Wondered about that. I'm not an iMac person so I didn't know.

 

[JonnyGators]

Thanks for all this, this is all great information to digest and play with. My goals are twofold with this - see what it can do, and ultimately restore it to fully working as it was new. So a replacement CD-ROM, and probably a replacement flyback, will be a must at some point. But in the meantime, lots of options for me to play with here to learn more about what it can do.

 

[Amethyst1]

Why Apple failed to maintain a consistency across their models where the latter scenario was the standard procedure is baffling and annoying.

Maybe Macs lost the ability to Option-boot from USB after gaining FireWire…

 

[TheShortTimer]

Maybe Macs lost the ability to Option-boot from USB after gaining FireWire…

Yes or perhaps they phased it out and then backtracked because my 500Mhz and 800Mhz iBook G3's both have FireWire and can Option-boot from USB but my Sawtooth, iBook G4 and Mini G4 cannot. I've not tried the Quicksilver yet, nor the PM G5 - but I would be very surprised if the latter could not Option-boot. My eMac G4 is newer than the Sawtooth and Quicksilver but will happily Option-boot from USB.

It's a confusing situation.

 

[JonnyGators]

Well, I've not had much luck booting to USB, but I think the first thing I need to do is find a USB drive that the iMac recognizes - every one of mine come up unrecognized. But maybe once I get to a version of OS X it will recognize more things? Not sure - will have to play around more. At some point I do want to play around with wiping the drive and clean installing things, but I'd like to copy off the data somehow, I've still not come up with a method to do that. But I need to poke around more and see what I can do.

The eBay purchase of 10 CD-ROM drives has arrived. First one I opened up has a blue button - holding it next to the old one, I'm struggling to see a difference, not sure if it's a bondi or blueberry button. I'd say it matches the bondi, but I know the lot are all of the newer model CD-ROM drives that would go in Rev. C or D iMacs, and there are an assortment of color buttons on the drives, so I wouldn't expect that model to come with a bondi button. But, blueberry or bondi, it looks fine in the bondi blue imac. Apple's documentation stresses ordering the older model drive for the bondi blue iMacs, but I found comments from some saying that they used the newer drives in bondi blue iMacs all the time and never got a complaint/call back. Anyways, first one I opened had a blue button, put it in the iMac, works just fine, now I can use CDs on the machine.

And now I need to test the other 9 drives, and try to sell them off as tested, since I really don't need all 10 drives.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Anyways, first one I opened had a blue button, put it in the iMac, works just fine, now I can use CDs on the machine.

Great news!

 

[MBAir2010]

aaah! the Pram battery!
yes
i wish the iMac bondi blue users well, and revive as we must

 

[JonnyGators]

I am really struggling to get to a point where I can wipe and reuse these iMacs. I want to save the current data on these iMacs before wiping them - but it seems Apple has made this pretty much impossible!
First of all, my bondi blue iMac is currently on OS 8.5.1. And it will not recognize a single usb drive I throw at it! Ridiculous. Nothing will let me transfer anything off of it.

Meanwhile, I picked up a blueberry iMac, probably a rev C. It has a tray drive. But it also has an upgrade installed that brings it to a 600MHz processor with firewire port. It has OS 9.2 on it. I connected an 8GB usb stick, it recognized it and let me format it. However - it will not let me copy the entire hard drive onto it, keeps saying I don't have enough space, even though I have more than enough space. So I've copied a folder at a time, but then I get down to the last folder and it still does the whole there isn't enough space, even though I've checked and the free space on my USB is more than the size of the folder.

Ok....whatever....so Mac OS doesn't understand basic math, I can work around that. so I figure, ok, I'll copy off what I have on here so far to something else, and copy the last folder itself. So I take my USB drive, connect it to my mac mini that is current and up to date. It's running big sur. And, the mac mini doesn't acknowledge the usb drive, at all. On any of my usb ports. Which are confirmed to work for other usb devices. No error, no attempt to format, nothing shows up on the desktop, I've confirmed in finder settings that it is set to display externals.....it doesn't like this usb so much, it just pretends it doesn't exist.

What gives?

Why has Apple made it so impossible to just transfer some data? I've never had this much trouble transferring files between older and newer PCs. I don't understand why Apple has to make just about everything more complicated and impossible than PCs.

 

[Amethyst1]

First of all, my bondi blue iMac is currently on OS 8.5.1. And it will not recognize a single usb drive I throw at it!

You need at least Mac OS 8.6 plus an update to use USB mass storage devices.

I connected an 8GB usb stick, it recognized it and let me format it.

What file system did you select?

 

[TheShortTimer]

I am really struggling to get to a point where I can wipe and reuse these iMacs. I want to save the current data on these iMacs before wiping them - but it seems Apple has made this pretty much impossible!
First of all, my bondi blue iMac is currently on OS 8.5.1. And it will not recognize a single usb drive I throw at it! Ridiculous.

OS 8.5 was released in 1998. Try getting the Windows contemporaries: 95, 98 or even 98SE to recognise USB drives without an individual driver for each USB drive unless you got lucky and found yourself in a situation where they shared a generic driver. I recall having to install a new driver on my Win 98SE laptop whenever I wanted to use a USB stick or if someone wanted to share data from one. After I reformatted the HDD, I then had to repeat the process all over again for the OS to recognise the drives.

Why has Apple made it so impossible to just transfer some data? I've never had this much trouble transferring files between older and newer PCs. I don't understand why Apple has to make just about everything more complicated and impossible than PCs.

Apple hasn't made "just about everything more complicated and impossible than PCs" or "impossible to just transfer some data." The root of your difficulties is within your original post.

I've never been a mac person, or a fan of macs.

Your frustration will ease once you become more proficient with finding your way around Macs. I doubt that any of us became experts overnight

Mac OS 9 The Missing Manual and The Macintosh Bible 7th Edition which covers OS 8.5 will probably help you in this respect.

You need at least Mac OS 8.6 plus an update to use USB mass storage devices.

A 3.5" USB 3.0 HDD enclosure arrived recently and I was surprised to discover that it's compatible with OS 8!

I was expecting Tiger onwards - not that far back! Not that I'm complaining of course. All we need now is for someone to create a USB 3.0 PCI card driver for OS 8.

 

[Amethyst1]

Try getting the Windows contemporaries: 95, 98 or even 98SE to recognise USB drives without an individual driver for each USB drive unless you got lucky and found yourself in a situation where they shared a generic driver.

This. USB was a complete nightmare on Windows 95. 98 improved it to the point of being usable, 98SE improved on that — still, no USB mass storage drivers shipped with Windows until Windows 2000 (finalised November 1999).

A 3.5" USB 3.0 HDD enclosure arrived recently and I was surprised to discover that it's compatible with OS 8!

It's probably a bog-standard USB mass storage device so it should™ work with any OS that includes a driver for those. 98SE does not though — so does it ship with any drivers?

Speaking of mass storage devices, if anyone ever gets a NVMe SSD in a USB-C enclosure to work with Mac OS 8.6, colour me surprised

Meanwhile, I picked up a blueberry iMac, probably a rev C. It has a tray drive. But it also has an upgrade installed that brings it to a 600MHz processor with firewire port.

This is a very long shot since the machine did not originally have a FireWire port but here goes anyway: do you get a floating FireWire icon on the screen when holding the [T] key on the keyboard immediately after turning it on? If so, you can connect it to another Mac using a FireWire cable: it should™ appear as an external hard drive, allowing you to easily back up its contents etc.

 

[TheShortTimer]

This. And USB was a complete nightmare on Windows 95. 98 improved it to the point of being usable, 98SE improved on that - still, no USB mass storage drivers shipped with Windows until Windows 2000 (finalised November 1999).

Remember the spectacular PR disaster when Gates and Capossela attempted to demonstrate the marvels of Windows 98's plug and play capabilities during a live presentation by connecting a scanner to a PC via USB and a BSOD ensued?

It's probably a bog-standard USB mass storage device so it should™ work with any OS that includes a driver for those. 98SE does not though - so does it ship with any drivers?

Yep, because the manufacturer warns that out of the box compatibility with 98SE might not be guaranteed...

...which is why a driver CD was included.

Speaking of mass storage devices, If anyone ever gets a NVMe SSD in a USB-C enclosure to work with Mac OS 8.6, colour me surprised

There's every chance that someone could read this and be inspired to fulfil it.

 

[Amethyst1]

There's every chance that someone could read this and be inspired to fulfil it.

I do have the NVMe SSD and could get an enclosure but could only test as far back as 9.2.2.

Remember the spectacular PR disaster when Gates and Capossela attempted to demonstrate the marvels of Windows 98's plug and play capabilities during a live presentation by connecting a scanner to a PC via USB and a BSOD ensued?

Public beta testing at its best.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

DL the 8.6 USB driver update Amethyst linked to- that should fix your issue. Its not a windows vs Apple thing. w95 & 98se both have a similar update in order for USB to work on those respective OSs, let alone the additional drivers for the devices you would plug into them. They also had plenty of stumbling along the way as they figured it out. I was playing around with some retro gaming 98se installs mid pandemic when I ran into the same issue on the wintel side. "USB? What is this USB you speak of?" smacked me flat in the face while trying to move files on various old wintel boxes I have. LOL Oh yeah, never thought it was possible as I actually was using windows 95/98se and gaming through this period, but I had completely forgotten about that time in computing history before plug n play USB was a common, ubiquitous thing, conversely was a big pain in the butt sometimes Haha, fun times.

Worse case scenario, buy a $10 3.5" hdd enclosure and stick it onto your mini and pull files off that way. Easy breezy.