iMac booting from external SSD hangs at startup

Discussion in 'iMac' started by Mac Hammer Fan, May 22, 2019.

  1. Mac Hammer Fan macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #1
    My friend has an iMac 2015 where he boots from an external USB 3.0 SSD. It worked well under HFS+ under High Sierra but boots slower under Mojave. The SSD has been bought in november 2018.
    The last days, the iMac hanged at startup, except with safe boot.
    We tried SMC reset, safe boot and disk utility but it didn't solve the problem. DU says the disk is OK.
    However, when using de single user mode (command + S) we ran fsck -fy and it booted afterwards.
    Now the problem is gone. We booted 10 times under the normal way today without a problem.
    However, we are still not sure if everything is OK.
    Is there anyone who has a suggestion what to do if the lockup happens again?
     
  2. mikehalloran macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Location:
    The Sillie Con Valley
    #2
    Safe boot and fisk -fy fixed it apparently. Sometimes it does.

    This Mac will boot more quickly from a fast NVMe 3 x4 blade in a Thunderbolt enclosure. The Samsung X 5 with the Apple TB2 to TB3 adapter and the right cable(s) gets you there.
    --- Post Merged, May 22, 2019 ---
    Read my post at the end of this thread.
    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/normal-behavior-or-failing-hdd.2182046/

    The best way is to install a fast NVMe 3 x4 blade into the PCIe slot such as the Samsung 970 EVO or the OWC Aura X2 Pro.
     
  3. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #3
    This thunderbold solution would unfortunately be much more expensive than the current USB 3 SSD. My friend paid only 50 bucks at Black Friday.
     
  4. nambuccaheadsau macrumors 68000

    nambuccaheadsau

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2007
    Location:
    Nambucca Heads Australia
    #4
    That is the way it goes alas.

    I have TB and USB3 external drives for backups, and the latter boots muc, much slower. You get what you pays for!
     
  5. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #5
    The USB 3 SSD booted fast under High Sierra with HFS+ and never hanged at startup.
     
  6. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #6
    Unfortunately, today the iMac hanged again on startup from the external SSD. My friend can boot in the safe mode, but when he boots normally the Mac locks up. Can someone give me suggestions? Any help would be much appreciated. The problem occurred after updating Mojave 10.14.4 to 10.14.5.
     
  7. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #7
    After running the combo updater 10.14.5 the computer booted succesfully, but we are still not sure whether is will be reliable. Can I put an iMac booting from an external SSD to sleep safely? In this case we won't restart the iMac the following days and post an Etrecheck report tomorrow.
     
  8. Mister George, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019

    Mister George macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2019
    #8
    I am the person with this problem.
    Here is the etrecheck report.
    EtreCheck version: 3.4.6 (460)
    Report generated 2019-05-24 13:55:01
    Download EtreCheck from https://etrecheck.com
    Runtime: 4:52
    Performance: Good
    Problem:
    Other proble
    Description:
    computer hangs at startup
    Hardware Information:
    iMac (Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, Late 2015)
    [Technical Specifications] - [User Guide] - [Warranty & Service]
    iMac - model: iMac16,2
    1 3,1 GHz Intel Core i5 (i5-5675R) CPU: 4-core
    8 GB RAM Not upgradeable
    BANK 0/DIMM0
    4 GB DDR3 1867 MHz ok
    BANK 1/DIMM0
    4 GB DDR3 1867 MHz ok
    Handoff/Airdrop2: supported
    Wireless: en1: 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac
    iCloud Quota: 0 B available (Low!)
    Video Information:
    Intel Iris Pro Graphics 6200 - VRAM: 1536 MB
    iMac
    Disk Information:
    APPLE HDD ST1000LM024 disk0: (1 TB) (Rotational)
    [Show SMART report]
    EFI (disk0s1 - MS-DOS FAT32) <not mounted> [EFI]: 210 MB
    Backup HD (disk0s2 - Journaled HFS+) /Volumes/Backup HD : 499.02 GB (351.80 GB free)
    Recovery HD (disk0s3 - Journaled HFS+) <not mounted> [Recovery]: 650 MB
    Time Machine Backup HD (disk0s4 - Journaled HFS+) /Volumes/Time Machine Backup HD : 500.05 GB (342.83 GB free
    USB Information:
    USB30Bus
    USB 3.0 Device USB 3.0 Device
    00SSD1 disk2: (250,06 GB)
    EFI (disk2s1 - MS-DOS FAT32) <not mounted> [EFI]: 210 MB
    (disk2s2) <not mounted> [APFS Container]: 249.85 GB
    Broadcom Corp. Bluetooth USB Host Controller
    Apple Inc. FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in)
    Apple, Inc. Keyboard Hub
    Apple Inc. Apple Keyboard
    Western Digital Ext HDD 1021
    Ext HDD 1021 disk1: (2 TB)
    ELEMENTS (disk1s1 - MS-DOS FAT32) /Volumes/ELEMENTS : 2.00 TB (1.48 TB free)
    Thunderbolt Information:
    Apple Inc. thunderbolt_bus
    Virtual disks:
    Macintosh HD (disk3s1 - APFS) / [Startup]: 249.85 GB (97.77 GB free)
    Physical disk: disk2s2 249.85 GB (97.77 GB free)
    (disk3s2) <not mounted> [Preboot]: 249.85 GB
    Physical disk: disk2s2 249.85 GB
    (disk3s3) <not mounted> [Recovery]: 249.85 GB
    Physical disk: disk2s2 249.85 GB
    (disk3s4) <not mounted> [VM]: 249.85 GB
    Physical disk: disk2s2 249.85 GB
    System Software:
    macOS 10.14.5 (18F132) - Time since boot: about 2 hours
    Gatekeeper:
    Mac App Store and identified developers
    Kernel Extensions:
    /System/Library/Extensions
    [loaded] com.Cycling74.driver.Soundflower (1.6.7 - SDK 10.7) [Lookup]
    System Launch Agents:
    [not loaded] 9 Apple tasks
    [loaded] 174 Apple tasks
    [running] 118 Apple tasks
    System Launch Daemons:
    [not loaded] 37 Apple tasks
    [loaded] 182 Apple tasks
    [running] 116 Apple tasks
    Launch Agents:
    [running] com.avast.osx.secureline.update-agent.plist (AVAST Software a.s. - installed 2019-04-23) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.avast.osx.secureline.userinit.plist (Shell Script 2fc1004f - installed 2019-04-23) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.avast.userinit.plist (Shell Script 4b9d47d7 - installed 2019-03-05) [Lookup]
    Launch Daemons:
    [loaded] com.apple.installer.osmessagetracing.plist (Apple, Inc. - installed 2019-05-04)
    [loaded] com.avast.init.plist (Shell Script fe750b9b - installed 2019-03-05) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.avast.osx.secureline.init.plist (Shell Script 1bda83b1 - installed 2019-04-23) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.avast.osx.secureline.uninstall.plist (Shell Script ba7a0061 - installed 2019-04-23) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.avast.osx.secureline.update.plist (Shell Script f50a649c - installed 2019-04-23) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.avast.uninstall.plist (Shell Script 1d68eef4 - installed 2019-03-05) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.avast.update.plist (Shell Script f4a2548f - installed 2019-03-05) [Lookup]
    [running]
    com.bombich.ccchelper.plist (Bombich Software, Inc. - installed 2019-05-21) [Lookup]
    User Launch Agents:
    [loaded] com.avast.osx.secureline.home.userinit.plist (Shell Script 22c221b4 - installed 2019-04-23) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.google.keystone.agent.plist (Google, Inc. - installed 2019-05-13) [Lookup]
    [loaded]
    com.google.keystone.xpcservice.plist (Google, Inc. - installed 2019-05-13) [Lookup]
    User Login Items:
    Default Folder X Programma
    (/Applications/Default Folder X.app)
    Android File Transfer Agent Programma
    (~/Library/Application Support/Google/Android File Transfer/Android File Transfer Agent.app)
    OneDrive Launcher SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2019-05-19)
    (~/Desktop/OneDrive.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/OneDrive Launcher.app)
    OneDrive Launcher SMLoginItem - Hidden (Apple, Inc. - installed 2019-05-19)
    (/Volumes/Backup HD/Users/[redacted]/Desktop/OneDrive.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/OneDrive Launcher.app)
    (null) SMLoginItem - Hidden (AVAST Software a.s. - installed 2016-12-10)
    (/Applications/Avast Passwords.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/6H4HRTU5E3.com.avast.passwords.PasswordsHelperApp.app)
    (null) SMLoginItem - Hidden (AVAST Software a.s. - installed 2016-12-10)
    (/Volumes/Backup HD/Applications/Avast Passwords.app/Contents/Library/LoginItems/6H4HRTU5E3.com.avast.passwords.PasswordsHelperApp.app)
    Internet Plug-ins:
    QuickTime Plugin: 7.7.3 (installed 2019-05-23)
    3rd Party Preference Panes:
    Perian (installed 2011-07-23) [Lookup]
    Time Machine:
    Time Machine not configured!
    Top Processes by CPU:
    12% mds
    9% backupd
    8% mdworker
    8% mdworker
    6% kernel_task


    Top Processes by Memory:

    184 MB kernel_task

    182 MB mds_stores

    162 MB com.apple.WebKit.WebContent

    160 MB WindowServer

    148 MB Mail


    Top Processes by Network Use:

    Input Output Process name

    1 MB 90 KB com.avast.proxy

    124 KB 12 KB mDNSResponder

    36 KB 1 KB com.apple.Safari.SafeBrowsing.Service

    9 KB 27 KB apsd

    9 KB 5 KB com.apple.geod


    Top Processes by Energy Use:

    10.10 WindowServer

    5.68 storagekitd

    4.16 diskarbitrationd

    4.00 SubmitDiagInfo


    Virtual Memory Information:

    3.38 GB Available RAM

    151 MB Free RAM

    4.62 GB Used RAM

    3.23 GB Cached files

    0 B Swap Used


    Software installs (last 30 days):

    OneDrive: 19.043.0304 (installed 2019-05-19)



    Install information may not be complete.


    Diagnostics Events (last 3 days for minor events):

    2019-05-24 10:56:36 Mail.app High CPU use [Open] [Details]

    2019-05-23 23:00:33 Toast Titanium.app High CPU use [Open] [Details]

    2019-05-22 16:34:41 apple-scc-20190522-163416.app Crash [Open]

    2019-05-22 15:55:54 iCloudPref.prefPane Crash [Open]

    Cause: objc_msgSend() selector name: _updateStatus

    dyld3 mode

    2019-05-21 22:07:36 ScreenSaverEngine.app High CPU use [Open] [Details]
     
  9. Mister George macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2019
    #9
    We started in the single user mode.
    This appears
    handle-cryptomount: 831 handling crypto mount volume /dev/disk 3s1
    handle-cryptomount: 1050: crypto mount finished with apfs
    apfs_keybag_get1320: failed to get apfs volume key bag error = 2
    apfs_keybag_init: failed to initialize volume key bag error = 2
    This is strange.
    Further boots the computer normally. We will for now avoid to shut down this Mac and put it to sleep.
     
  10. Mac Hammer Fan, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019

    Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #10
    handle-cryptomount: 831 handling crypto mount volume /dev/disk 3s1
    handle-cryptomount: 1050: crypto mount finished with apfs
    this appears on my MacBook Pro which works perfect too.
    But the error messages not.
    volume key bag error seems to be a problem.
    Clone and reformat the drive?
     
  11. Mike Boreham macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #11
    I’d really want to try it without those 10 (!) Avast launchagents and launchdaemons.

    Safeboot stops third party launchagents so might be why safeboot works.

    Onedrive causes a warning message in Disk first aid but no evidence it does any real harm. However since this sounds like this is a recent problem and Onedrive is the only software installed in the last 30 days I would uninstall that too.
     
  12. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #12
    Mister George uses OneDrive for his Huawei phone. We will uninstall some parts of Avast.
     
  13. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #13
    A user on Apple Communities had this problem in the Single User mode too:
    apfs_keybag_get1320: failed to get apfs volume key bag error = 2
    apfs_keybag_init: failed to initialize volume key bag error = 2

    followed by other error messages.
    There is no application at this moment that can repair this APFS problem.
    The only solution is reformat, clean install and migrate, he says. That solved his problem.
     
  14. Mike Boreham macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #14
    Before the erase/install/migrate option you could try just running the full installer over the existing install....booted from Recovery or a bootable installer thumbdrive. This will lose no settings, apps or data and solves many problems.

    If you do the erase/install/migrate option be sure to use Migration Assistant when it is offered at the end of the install process. This is sometimes referred to as Setup Assistant.

    Using Migration Assistant later, after creating an initial user, has caused problems for me and often not worked. I have also had much more success migrating from a clone than a TM backup.
     
  15. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #15
    The problem is that the following error messages are APFS disk related.
    apfs_keybag_get1320: failed to get apfs volume key bag error = 2
    apfs_keybag_init: failed to initialize volume key bag error = 2
    So a clean install and migration immediately afterwards is the only way. I had no plans to recreate an initial user.
     
  16. Mike Boreham macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #16
    Not sure why those messages stop you trying an install over existing? If it doesn't work you can do the erase/install/migrate after, provided you have good backups.
    But no problem if you are more inclined to the erase/install/migrate straightaway.
    --- Post Merged, May 25, 2019 ---
    PS have you tried without Avast and Onedrive?
     
  17. Mister George macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2019
    #17
    Mac Hammer Fan uninstalled Avast. I need OneDrive. Without Avast, the problems weren't gone. After reformatting the external SSD, clean install and migration from a Time Machine Backup, the problem seems to be solved.
    In the single user mode the key bag error no longer appears.
     
  18. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #18
    I hope APFS will be reliable now, otherwise, I will reformat in HFS+
     
  19. Mike Boreham macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #19
    Good to hear you have fixed it!
     
  20. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #20
    I have solved the problem with reformatting the external SSD (keeping APFS), clean install and migration from a Time Machine Backup, but if the APFS related key bag error appears again in the future, I will reformat or convert the external SSD from Mister George in HFS+
     
  21. Mister George macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 24, 2019
    #21
    Unfortunately, I had a new lockup at startup this evening. APFS seems to suck. I had never problems with HFS+
     
  22. Mike Boreham, May 26, 2019
    Last edited: May 26, 2019

    Mike Boreham macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #22
    What point in the startup cycle does it hang at?
    You might learn something by turning on verbose mode.
    --- Post Merged, May 26, 2019 ---
    I would not rush to blame APFS. I have booted a number of different external SSD and flash drives formatted APFS without hangs.
    --- Post Merged, May 26, 2019 ---
    One time Verbose mode: https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201573

    This link tells you how to make verbose mode persistent http://osxdaily.com/2007/03/25/always-boot-mac-os-x-in-verbose-mode/
     
  23. Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #23
    Mister George is more than 80 years old and I did the work for him. The key bag error in single user mode is gone and the lockup was only once. I gave him the advice not to shutdown or restart his computer anymore and instead put the iMac to sleep. It is to difficult for him to boot in the verbose mode. We will evaluate the situation next month and if there are still problems go back to HFS+. APFS works well on my MacBook Pro 2015 but this Mac has a faster SSD.
     
  24. nihil0 macrumors regular

    nihil0

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    #24
    how about trying Patriot EVLVR instead of X5? It is way cheaper, TB3 solution and albeit slower than X5 it is still faster than USB 3.0 SSD.
     
  25. Mac Hammer Fan, May 27, 2019
    Last edited: May 28, 2019

    Mac Hammer Fan thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mac Hammer Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Location:
    Belgium
    #25
    My friend Mister George who is more than 80 years old bought the cheapest solution because he has no much money. But is an Crucial USB 3.0 SSD not compatible with APFS?
     

Share This Page

26 May 22, 2019