iMac costs $500/ year -- Should you upgrade every two years??

[TheyCallMeBT]

Owning an iMac comes to about $500 per year for me. I use it for work, and I consider that a great per year price. But I think it would cost about the same if I upgraded every 2 or 3 years, instead of 5+. Essentially it's switching to a "leasing" mindset (in practical terms, NOT in bank definition).

Breaking down the figures:

I have a 2013 27" iMac i7 780M. It was $2,560 (education price plus tax). I bought it Nov. 2013, so 5.5 years. That's $465 per year.

Apple will pay me $490 for it as a trade in. I know I could get more on eBay, but I prefer to get it done and finished with a trade in.

Subtract the trade in value and it brings the per year quite a bit lower to $376. But while the computer still runs great now for most tasks-- I've been needing updated specs for a couple of years now for video editing.

Let's say I bought a 2017 iMac when it was new and wanted to trade up to a 2019 now.

I believe the 2017 i7 with the 580, and SSD (I'm excluding RAM upgrade costs) was $2,500 from my research. (Correct me if you have a more accurate figure). In general, the non-taxed retail price and the education plus tax prices equal out, so we'll stick with $2,500.

Apple's trade in value for that model is $1,510 right now. That would have been two years of ownership, so $495 per year.

Obviously Macs hold their value well, so I would imagine trade in values will stay about in line with these two data points.

Thinking of it this way also helps me on the big decision of whether to get the 580X or the Vega. If I'm not stretching it to 5+ years, the Vega upgrade and its cost feels a lot less necessary.

To wrap this up, I think $500 per year is a great price for a machine like this. And if it's going to be about the same per year cost, I think it would be better to upgrade every 2 to 3 years and keep a machine that keeps up with my tasks, rather than waiting 5+ years, when it runs slowly for my most intensive computing tasks that I need to run. Or if it's only about $100 extra per year for the more frequent updates, that's still great value.

Thoughts? Is there any factor that I'm overlooking?

 

[macduke]

It would be great if Apple bundled it into a Mac Upgrade Program including Apple Care. Get a new Mac after two years or pay it off after four. That would be really convenient. I don’t like selling my old Macs either so I usually give them to my grandpa but he is starting to slow down so I really doubt he is going to want my 2019 iMac in 2025.

 

[Fried Chicken]

This is quite intriguing. I have a 2012 iMac that’s 6 years old. I bout it for ~2500, and put about $500 in upgrades into it.
That’s $500/year of ownership.

I was convinced I’d be saving by holding onto my iMac for forever, but now that I break down the numbers, I’m not so convinced.

That being said, around now I will probably start reaping the benefits for every year I own this computer after now, and it shows no signs of quitting.

 

[theluggage]

Thoughts? Is there any factor that I'm overlooking?

I think your sort of calculation is a useful tool for making purchase decisions - I've done something similar when comparing options. However, I wouldn't feel particularly bound by those decisions afterwards.

Just a few caveats, though:

1. Those trade-in prices seem awfully generous - where did you get them from? The "Apple giveback" page in the US states max. $1100 for a computer (£710 in the UK which, because of sales tax, amounts to $700-ish in US money). Even if your deal is valid today, I wouldn't count on getting such a good deal 2/3 years down the line. Also, you have to account for the risk of some non-Applecare-covered fault/loss/damage - even a nasty scratch that doesn't affect the functionality could decimate your trade-in/resale value.
2. Also re. the trade in - if I were relying on my Mac for work I'd normally hang on to my last computer as a spare, esp. when using an iMac with "no user-servicable parts" that would probably have be sent of for repair if it went wrong.
3. You're assuming that you'll love whatever Apple has to offer in 2021 and that it will be a significant upgrade with no complications. (See 90% of the rest of this site for reasons why you might not). I wouldn't rely on that. Its not even 100% guaranteed that they'll release a new iMac by then. Even if its a decent upgrade it might not be 'compelling' in terms of performance or new technology.
4. You're assuming that the only value of upgrade options like the Vega is future-proofing and you won't enjoy any benefits in the first 2 years.

However, those are only a problem if you commit yourself to a 2-yearly upgrade by skimping on the options. I'd normally go for the "budget for 2-3 years, hope for 5+" approach. (Well, actually I'd go for something more piecemeal-upgradeable than the iMac if Apple made it and my desire for MacOS didn't just tip the balance).

As for whether to upgrade to 2019 now - well, although the design hasn't changed, the CPU upgrade is the best there has been for a while with the new 6- and 8-core options (and possibly, based on some of the reviews, quieter running and less throttling c.f. the old models). There may not be another new iMac until 2021 now and that will probably be time for a significant re-design which you may or may not like. Intel have predicted that Apple will move to ARM on that timescale (lets not debate that here - plenty of other threads for that - but its a serious rumour) which would be a deal-breaker for some uses (at least in the short term while developers catch up).

 

[adamk77]

 

 

[drewaz]

You've described me in this post. Except I sell mine instead of trading it in.

I do this not just for my Macs but for all my Apple gear. Even a broken iPhone can fetch a decent price because of shops and people scavenging for parts for repair. This also includes peripherals like the recently sold Magic Keyboard I've had for a few years for close to $60, originally purchased for $105 (with tax).

The last Mac I sold was the 2017 27" iMac. I paid $2750 for it. I sold it last week for $2000 and I've owned it for 18 months. The cost of ownership came pretty close to your figure at around $500/year or $42/month.

I don't have a regular cadence at which I upgrade though. It's whenever there is a tempting offering in the product line that I can't ignore.

[doublepost=1554567298][/doublepost]How do you decide how much to sell a preowned iMac for?

 

[TheyCallMeBT]

It would be great if Apple bundled it into a Mac Upgrade Program including Apple Care. Get a new Mac after two years or pay it off after four. That would be really convenient. I don’t like selling my old Macs either so I usually give them to my grandpa but he is starting to slow down so I really doubt he is going to want my 2019 iMac in 2025.

That would be great. They have a business lease program. But it is ludicrous and not set up the way that a lease would be like on a car. I don't see why anyone would use it. I've looked around before and there doesn't appear to be any external sellers that offer any kind of program like this.

This is quite intriguing. I have a 2012 iMac that’s 6 years old. I bout it for ~2500, and put about $500 in upgrades into it.
That’s $500/year of ownership.

I was convinced I’d be saving by holding onto my iMac for forever, but now that I break down the numbers, I’m not so convinced.

That being said, around now I will probably start reaping the benefits for every year I own this computer after now, and it shows no signs of quitting.

Yup, I thought the same thing before I ran the numbers. But I agree that it feels like these specs will hold on better than 2013 specs. Moore's Law has slowed down (which is more about economics than physics IMO, but that's a whole other diatribe lol).

I think your sort of calculation is a useful tool for making purchase decisions - I've done something similar when comparing options. However, I wouldn't feel particularly bound by those decisions afterwards.

Just a few caveats, though:

1. Those trade-in prices seem awfully generous - where did you get them from? The "Apple giveback" page in the US states max. $1100 for a computer (£710 in the UK which, because of sales tax, amounts to $700-ish in US money). Even if your deal is valid today, I wouldn't count on getting such a good deal 2/3 years down the line. Also, you have to account for the risk of some non-Applecare-covered fault/loss/damage - even a nasty scratch that doesn't affect the functionality could decimate your trade-in/resale value.
2. Also re. the trade in - if I were relying on my Mac for work I'd normally hang on to my last computer as a spare, esp. when using an iMac with "no user-servicable parts" that would probably have be sent of for repair if it went wrong.
3. You're assuming that you'll love whatever Apple has to offer in 2021 and that it will be a significant upgrade with no complications. (See 90% of the rest of this site for reasons why you might not). I wouldn't rely on that. Its not even 100% guaranteed that they'll release a new iMac by then. Even if its a decent upgrade it might not be 'compelling' in terms of performance or new technology.
4. You're assuming that the only value of upgrade options like the Vega is future-proofing and you won't enjoy any benefits in the first 2 years.

However, those are only a problem if you commit yourself to a 2-yearly upgrade by skimping on the options. I'd normally go for the "budget for 2-3 years, hope for 5+" approach. (Well, actually I'd go for something more piecemeal-upgradeable than the iMac if Apple made it and my desire for MacOS didn't just tip the balance).

As for whether to upgrade to 2019 now - well, although the design hasn't changed, the CPU upgrade is the best there has been for a while with the new 6- and 8-core options (and possibly, based on some of the reviews, quieter running and less throttling c.f. the old models). There may not be another new iMac until 2021 now and that will probably be time for a significant re-design which you may or may not like. Intel have predicted that Apple will move to ARM on that timescale (lets not debate that here - plenty of other threads for that - but its a serious rumour) which would be a deal-breaker for some uses (at least in the short term while developers catch up).

Some great notes and points here-- thank you for that. So the trade in prices are coming directly from when you click the "Add a trade-in" option on the Apple store. You put in the specs, and it gives you the number, and that shows up at the bottom of your shopping cart once you add your computer to it. It does say up to $1100 at the top, but it gave me the $1510 for the 2017 iMac. You can try it for yourself to confirm, and here's screenshots (I did it in a separate browser to not mess up my shopping cart, so it's not education pricing).

The $490 from Apple for my 2013 was a little more than SellYourMac dot com, which offered me $434.

As far as having a backup machine, I do have an older MBP which could get me by (slowly) for a few weeks if my iMac broke down. Trust me, I've been in that scenario back when I started my business in 2010. My client was not happy (rightfully so), and I was in a tough spot for a couple of weeks as I was missing deadlines.

And I'm making the purchase regardless, and this isn't weighing that heavily in my decision on the graphics card. So I think that addresses the rest of your thoughts. It's definitely not something that I see as having to commit to on the front end-- but rather something to start considering at the 2 year mark and beyond, reevaluating along the way.

Thanks again for all of the well thought out specifics here!!

You've described me in this post. Except I sell mine instead of trading it in.

I do this not just for my Macs but for all my Apple gear. Even a broken iPhone can fetch a decent price because of shops and people scavenging for parts for repair. This also includes peripherals like the recently sold Magic Keyboard I've had for a few years for close to $60, originally purchased for $105 (with tax).

The last Mac I sold was the 2017 27" iMac. I paid $2750 for it. I sold it last week for $2000 and I've owned it for 18 months. The cost of ownership came pretty close to your figure at around $500/year or $42/month.

I don't have a regular cadence at which I upgrade though. It's whenever there is a tempting offering in the product line that I can't ignore.

Perfect!! Thanks for confirming that this is viable for me. What is your preferred way to sell a Mac? eBay?

I've also switched to as I'm calling it a "leasing" mindset for phones. I buy Samsung flagships (I'm OSX for desktop and Android for mobile, I wonder how many other weirdos like me there are lol). Verizon and most other service providers do the 24 month no interest payments. Verizon was letting you trade the phone back in at the 12 month mark and call it even. Which works out pretty evenly if you were to try to sell it at the 12 month mark. Unfortunately it looks like they've done away with that option, but I've read that they'll grandfather you in if you've done it before, so I'll probably be doing that again soon. A downside is that you have to pay taxes up front.

 

[dogslobber]

I bought my 2011 iMac refurb six years ago for 979$ so currently cost $163 plus change per year. I've a feeling this machine can last another five years to get under 100 bucks/year.

 

[adamk77]

 

 

[drewaz]

I found Mactracker in the App store .... pick the computer you are interested in selling and the app will find what it's going for on ebay.

 

[Fried Chicken]

There is of course the caveat that you will be a slave to apple's upgrade cycle, and apple may release something terrible.

 

[TheyCallMeBT]

There is of course the caveat that you will be a slave to apple's upgrade cycle, and apple may release something terrible.

Well the train of thought here is that you upgrade if and when you want to. There's no obligation from the outset. And we're all slaves to upgrade cycles in electronics. That's just how it is now. The idea is to make that fact work FOR you, not against you.
[doublepost=1554634976][/doublepost]

I usually check different used marketplaces and check out the trending sales price.

Is eBay where you prefer to sell, or do you sell somewhere else, or directly to people you know?

 

[a2jack]

Well the train of thought here is that you upgrade if and when you want to. There's no obligation from the outset. And we're all slaves to upgrade cycles in electronics. That's just how it is now. The idea is to make that fact work FOR you, not against you.
[doublepost=1554634976][/doublepost]
Is eBay where you prefer to sell, or do you sell somewhere else, or directly to people you know?

 

[MRrainer]

I just checked and my 2012 MacMini 2.3 i7 (bought in 2014) is worthless to Apple :-(

I got it for 700, put another 700 in upgrades and got my boss' old 30" 2560x1600 display for free.

My plan is to use it for another year, unless the display caves in.

I've yet to decide what to replace it with (had a 2008 iMac before that) in 2020. Both the MacMini and the iMac look very compelling it this point.

For the Mini, I'd like to get dual higher-end 4k displays with very narrow bezels - something you just can't do with the iMac.

Apart from VMWare, there's nothing my 2012 Mini really struggles with, even though it only has a 500GB Crucial SSD, which is probably only getting a 1/3 of the throughput of the current Mini's SSDs.

Hopefully, it'll get another macOS upgrade in fall. I do plan on replacing it eventually, once macOS upgrades have run out.

1400 / 6 = 233 per year - or 0.64 per day.

 

[a2jack]

This is great thread and of interest to all Apple users.

Like many here I have a love / hate thing ongoing with Apple, yet the alternate is a horrible return to Micro-Soft. UGH !

The steps outlined here is the answer. Tag it at $500 a year, live in the comfortable zone of high middle tech, and still get an occasional new box on your doorstep.

Thanks. a2

 

[Fried Chicken]

The question now becomes if apple continues this regular cadence, and (this is big) doesn't screw up future generations of the iMac.

Damn.

Granted, I wouldn't have been able to afford the initial investment with full high end hardware.

 

[jeyf]

a computer is not furniture.
it either performs a function or not.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

I'm in Toronto, but I know some local AASPs offer 'trade up' services for Macs, assuming you purchase AppleCare with the Mac you're trading and the new one. May be worth a look!

 

[Fried Chicken]

a computer is not furniture.
it either performs a function or not.

Could I interest you in my Powermac G3?
Cost over $3k new, so I'll sell it to you for $2500

 

[TheyCallMeBT]

I'm in Toronto, but I know some local AASPs offer 'trade up' services for Macs, assuming you purchase AppleCare with the Mac you're trading and the new one. May be worth a look!

Yeah, we have a chain here called Simply Mac. They have about 50 locations in the US. They also do trade in if you're buying. But I'm guessing they wouldn't offer more than Apple. There's a good chance they would match it, but I'd rather just go through Apple. They don't tend to keep BTO models in stock.

 

[adamk77]

 

 

[mikehalloran]

Owning an iMac comes to about $500 per year for me. I use it for work...

If you’re in the US, then it doesn’t cost you $500 per year unless you have the stupidest accountant in the world. If you do your own and use a decent tax program, it still doesn’t.

I make my living on my iMac and have for many years. A home user who doesn’t won’t be able to enjoy the tax benefits we enjoyed (till 2018, at least grrrrrr!)

...I've been needing updated specs for a couple of years now for video editing...

I see nothing in the 2019 iMac i9 that makes it better than the iMac Pro for this — which is why I pulled the trigger on one yesterday.

Thoughts? Is there any factor that I'm overlooking?

Don’t get me wrong. I like the idea of trading up every few years like my iPhone.

This is the first time I’ve ever not leased mine going back to my $7,700 Mac Plus system in 1986 (I can still itemize every component). Business leasing made taxes easy in that you could write off 100% every year except the $1 you paid at the end. The tax code has removed the penalties for buying outright. When I tried to find a business lease for my new system, no one really does them for anything that small.

Usually, it’s TurboTax (formerly MacInTax) that forced the upgrade, not the applications I use to make my living. This year is no different — TT Home & Business runs like a glacier on my 2010 over OS 10.13.3. At least it runs but life’s too short for an app that slow.

Ok, FinalCut Pro is no picnic anymore, my AV use has increased and my DAW updates are starting to make my 2010 feel as old as I am. I’ve wanted to upgrade, the 2019 has been released, the iMac Pro is perfect for me and used prices came down a little.

All those posts explaining that people like I don’t really need something newer haven’t a clue about how many of us use our Macs.

So, it’s time to buy again...

... and write it off over time.

 

[dogslobber]

Seller protection is such a joke. Will both eBay and Paypal refund me the fees? Nope, they didn't. I mean what's to stop anyone from claiming that the item isn't "as described" whenever he/she has a buyer's remorse? A month, two or even half a year later? What a joke.

I know things can legitimately fail. However, that's part of the risk you take by buying something used at a significant discount. If the item was dead on arrival, had physical damages during shipping, etc then I can work something out. The bottom line is that it has to be reasonable.

Just be mindful of this when selling expensive items on eBay.

I had something similar happen when I sold an iMac on ebay five years ago. The buyer opened a case out of the blue saying not as described, demanding a refund. I think I eventually negotiated to return 20% of the selling price. It's pretty stressful and not worth the hassle. It's the last time I sold via ebay and the only selling issues I've had. Alas, it was more than enough.

 

[colodane]

Ebay is pretty much my last resort for a sales channel. High seller fees, onerous buyer protection plan, and shipping hassles/expense. I only use Ebay if I really need the large population of potential buyers, such as for unusual collectables, etc. Even then, I try to avoid it for large or heavy items.

For Apple stuff, there is usually enough local demand so that Ebay doesn't need to be considered.

I start with the email list of my Condo complex. Free and pre-vetted buyers - many of whom I already know.

After a couple days there, I move to the local "NextDoor" neighborhood email list. This covers a large part of metro Denver/Boulder. Free, folks come to me to purchase (no need for me to travel) and pay by either cash or PayPal.

If that doesn't work, then Craig's List. Broader area, a little more "iffy", but still no need to ship.

 

[MRrainer]

180 days? This is ridiculous.
Does the buyer at least have to reimburse you for the value the item lost in the mean time?

I only buy stuff via auction-sites, but have only once or twice sold something, in almost 25 years of being online and that was about fifteen years ago, when the internet was still a much nicer place.