iMac floppy argument doesn't justify DVD-less MBP

[Dark Goob]

No, the DVD drive is being removed because perhaps 1% of users ever use them. if that.

What is your source for that statistic? All the research I did showed that you are simply wrong. My real question for you is, what is your agenda? Why do you want to get rid of a ubiquitous technology? Surely, you must have a reason.

There is still the possibility to plug an external in, but for the 99% of users who never use them, or only use them when at their desk, there is zero point carrying around the dead weight that could be better put to use as battery or an additional drive bay.

Again, your figure is a plain lie. Statistics show that Americans spend 15 minutes a day using a DVD. So maybe, an hour every four days. Yeah, that was last year, but it hasn't fallen off a cliff. Ever go to the supermarket? See the "Red Box"? Ever go to the library? See the DVD/CD section? Ask the librarians how many people check out DVDs and CDs every day, and they will tell you that it's not an insignificant number.

You are simply imagining a fake, techie, imaginary world.. that plain DOES NOT EXIST. Perhaps it is the reality for many of the people who frequent this forum, but they are who represents 1% of people... or perhaps 1% of 1%...

Want to copy data off your mac while on the move? USB sticks of 16gb of bigger are easier to fit in your pocket. Plus there's airdrop and plenty of other options.

Why would I want to stick a linty, dirty USB stick into my computer? It's just disgusting. My laptop already has enough problems without someone accidentally pushing down on the USB stick while it's in the port, possibly damaging my logic board.

Plus there's the fact that Lion's performance with USB sticks is atrocious. See this thread on Apple discussions and this one and this one and this one and this thread here on MacRumors and this thread on insanelymac etc. etc. etc.

Apple's implementation of USB is wrought with performance issues.

Then there is the simple impracticality of using USB sticks to archive data in a useful way. These sticks are typically black or colored plastic, and therefore cannot be labelled with a Sharpie regarding what their contents are. Being three-dimensional objects, they are difficult to deal with when you have 30 or 40 of them.

Sure, USB sticks have their place -- XBOX 360 save games, carrying term papers to the library computer lab in college, taking photos to a shop to get them printed -- but they are so much more expensive per GB than optical media they do not make a wise choice for archiving or distribution.

Can you imagine having 40 USB sticks and trying to take them with you somewhere? And trying to figure out what is on which one?

Now imagine doing it with DVDs or BD-Rs. Oh wait now I can get a little CD wallet and put 2TB worth of data in there, in a form that I can easily hand a client 25 or 50GB of archival-quality data. That they don't have to unplug their scanner or their backup hard drive to access.

Further have you ever seen a band selling USB sticks of its album at a concert? Have you ever seen a photographer give out the wedding video on USB stick?

I fail to see what fuels the war against optical media, other than (of course) Apple's profit margins that it stands to make if everyone switches to getting their software from the Mac App Store because they can't install it off a DVD anymore.

"I refuse to change the way I work" is not justification to stop apple giving the other 99% of people better battery life, less weight, etc.

Again with the lies. Look. I am totally cool with it if you want the option to NOT have a DVD drive. Just don't take the optical slot away from the rest of us who use it nearly every day. Why not just make it an OPTION? Ever heard of OPTIONS?

 

[throAU]

Those 15 minutes per day using a DVD is probably in their home cinema, game console, etc.

Not in their laptop. Why do you think the air is selling like hotcakes? How many external drives have you seen people carrying around for them?

Making it optional will just consume MORE internal space with mounting brackets, clips, etc.


My "agenda" is that i (like most others) already have plenty of machines with optical drives that can play BD or DVD. Consoles, desktop PCs (which also rarely ever see optical drive usage), etc.

In a PORTABLE, i see zero point in lugging around an optical drive 100% of the time, when it is rarely used.

Get an external, put it in the bag, and plug it in when and if you need it. Backing up to disc has knobs on it. It is SLOW, and cumbersome. Backups are far faster to a NAS (wirelessly, and automatically) with redundant hard drives in it, and easier to search.


edit:
the 99% was in fact totally made up, like most stats. It wasn't meant to be taken literally, but was far quicker to type than "the vast majority of users".

 

[Astroboy907]

What is your source for that statistic? All the research I did showed that you are simply wrong. My real question for you is, what is your agenda? Why do you want to get rid of a ubiquitous technology? Surely, you must have a reason.



Again, your figure is a plain lie. Statistics show that Americans spend 15 minutes a day using a DVD. So maybe, an hour every four days. Yeah, that was last year, but it hasn't fallen off a cliff. Ever go to the supermarket? See the "Red Box"? Ever go to the library? See the DVD/CD section? Ask the librarians how many people check out DVDs and CDs every day, and they will tell you that it's not an insignificant number.

You are simply imagining a fake, techie, imaginary world.. that plain DOES NOT EXIST. Perhaps it is the reality for many of the people who frequent this forum, but they are who represents 1% of people... or perhaps 1% of 1%...



Why would I want to stick a linty, dirty USB stick into my computer? It's just disgusting. My laptop already has enough problems without someone accidentally pushing down on the USB stick while it's in the port, possibly damaging my logic board.

Plus there's the fact that Lion's performance with USB sticks is atrocious. See this thread on Apple discussions and this one and this one and this one and this thread here on MacRumors and this thread on insanelymac etc. etc. etc.

Apple's implementation of USB is wrought with performance issues. USB sticks typically cannot be labelled with what their contents are. Being three-dimensional objects, they are difficult to deal with when you have 30 or 40 of them.

Can you imagine having 40 USB sticks and trying to take them with you somewhere? And trying to figure out what is on which one?

Now imagine doing it with DVDs or BD-Rs. Oh wait now I can get a little CD wallet and put 2TB worth of data in there, in a form that I can easily hand a client 25 or 50GB of archival-quality data. That they don't have to unplug their scanner or their backup hard drive to access.



Again with the lies. Look. I am totally cool with it if you want the option to NOT have a DVD drive. Just don't take the optical slot away from the rest of us who use it nearly every day. Why not just make it an OPTION? Ever heard of OPTIONS?

*cough* I will try not to totally ruin everything you just posted, but hey, who knows?

1) ever hear of a DVD player? You know, the things that plug into Tvs??? That's what we watch DVDs on. Not laptops, not desktops, generally 90% of the time on a DVD player. Where it makes no difference to the computer.

2) a huge number of people ARE moving away from DVDs. And they are the average American. Unlike the 15 min a day count, which is 95% no DVD usage, and the other 5 hammering on about DVDs, and using them all the time

3) the Solution, is to a) get an older laptop, b) move on to a different storage solution, figure out how to live wIth it, c) the OPTION you so yell on about is an external drive, or d) live the rest of your life in a cave somewhere and abandon the world.

And truly, if inserting a USB drive into your computer might damage the logic board, why does apple even have USB? To make logic board problems? I suggest de linting your pockets, or get USB caps, or something... Makes me laugh how you would put DVDs in there but not stick a USB in it because it is "disgusting"

 

[MichaelLAX]

Why do you think that VMware patched Fusion 4 to remove the functionality to run SL client, and any other previous non-server version of OS X?

They certainly didn't put a patch out to remove that functionality just for fun:

http://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/2011/11/vmware-fusion-41-and-mac-os-x-virtual-machines.html

What if Apple came to VMware and said: "For every copy of Snow Leopard Server that is virtualized in VMware, we will pay you $100. So do not allow Snow Leopard client to work in VMware." Is that removing that functionality just for fun?

 

[Astroboy907]

What if Apple came to VMware and said: "For every copy of Snow Leopard Server that is virtualized in VMware, we will pay you $100. So do not allow Snow Leopard client to work in VMware." Is that removing that functionality just for fun?

Totally not. Apple probably just saved a couple billion...
Aaand locked down the os...

 

[Dark Goob]

1) Buy a USB hub. Use mine all the time

I have several USB hubs. They do not provide power, which almost every USB device I might want to use requires. Hard drives, external musical keyboards, audio interfaces, just about everything. Plus, it's just one more freaking thing to carry around, which is what I am trying to AVOID.

I don't care if the battery life is 2x more. It's going to die eventually which means I have to carry my power adapter with me everywhere. Since I have that with me, then the last thing I want to do is also have to carry around a USB hub and a DVD drive etc. etc.

The point of minimalism is to have everything you need in one thing, but nothing more. The current MacBook Pro is largely perfect for that. It's already freaking thin enough. The battery already lasts like 4 hours. It's already plenty fast. The only thing that would make it better, to me, is to put in a Blu Ray drive and 3D-capable screen. And make it lighter.

But Apple hates Blu Ray because it would require them paying a license fee to Sony/Panasonic. It's that simple. So they push their crappy cloud services with crappy video quality. I'm simply not buying into it. I'm a customer of Apple since 1984. Stick to making computers please. Let the Japanese continue making TVs and video playback formats. They are better at it.

But no, Apple wants to take over the world, take over Hollywood, take over Japan, and force us to do things THEIR way ... sigh. Well I'll tell you where you can put your USB stick.

2) I think blu ray, if not catching on in the next 2 years or so, is going to fail. The format is just too old... CDs are like 20!

Actually the Panasonic 50-year archival Blu Ray discs that I burn to will not fail in 2 years. They are 50-year archival.

I'm not sure why you people all want optical media to die. It's like you hate it or something.

The problem is, I would much rather stick my files on an Ssd or something and not have to deal with taking an hour to burn a 1 use device. SSD = 5 minutes and re usable. Anyways, if I am in a hurry, well, optical media sucks. Super slow transfer rates, and I can't even add to the disc? Maybe good for long term physical backups, but I would never use optical media in daily use..

Actually the data rate of Blu Ray is pretty good. 4x BD-R media which is commonly available and cheap now, is 144 megabit/sec (18 megabytes/sec) write speed. 6x Verbatim BD-R media which is $30 for 25 discs of 25GB each writes at 216 megabit/sec (27 megabytes/sec). Read speed is 432 megabit/sec (54 megabytes/sec). That read speed is honestly fairly close to the limit that USB 2.0 can even handle, to put it in perspective.

So essentially, USB sticks are WAY more expensive and generally much slower than BD-R media. They are also less reliable, less archivable, and more difficult to store and label large quantities of.

Although evidently, crack dealers and kool-aid peddlers must be raking it in these days.

 

[throAU]

What if Apple came to VMware and said: "For every copy of Snow Leopard Server that is virtualized in VMware, we will pay you $100. So do not allow Snow Leopard client to work in VMware." Is that removing that functionality just for fun?

Can someone translate this into something that makes sense please?

edit:
You cross-posted into the wrong thread, but go read the EULA, go read VMware's position and then try keeping up the argument that apple are OK with SL in a virtual machine.

I'm sure VMware's legal team are slightly better at law than you or I.

 

[MichaelLAX]

Certainly: you have no idea why VMware does not allow SL client to be virtualized; it is between Apple and VMware. The SL EULA does not prohibit it.

I was just giving you a hypothetical reason why they might make that change from v4.10 to v4.11.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot point to any official Apple writing that binds their Snow Leopard user from virtualizing the client version.

EDIT: I have read it; have you? If so, point me to the paragraph that prohibits it... AND: I do not use VMware (yet), I use Parallels.

 

[throAU]

Actually the data rate of Blu Ray is pretty good. 4x BD-R media which is commonly available and cheap now, is 144 megabit/sec (18 megabytes/sec) write speed. 6x Verbatim BD-R media which is $30 for 25 discs of 25GB each writes at 216 megabit/sec (27 megabytes/sec). Read speed is 432 megabit/sec (54 megabytes/sec). That read speed is honestly fairly close to the limit that USB 2.0 can even handle, to put it in perspective.

So essentially, USB sticks are WAY more expensive and generally much slower than BD-R media. They are also less reliable, less archivable, and more difficult to store and label large quantities of.

Although evidently, crack dealers and kool-aid peddlers must be raking it in these days.

1. Are you counting disk change time in that megabit rate?
2. My NAS gets 220 megaBYTES per second
3. the USB stick was for simply sneakernetting files from your laptop to a client. or use airdrop, etc.

have fun backing up your stuff to DVD or BD in 2015 when drives are 10x today's size.

good luck finding a working BD drive in 2037 (your 25 year EOL time for media) to transfer your archives to new media. have fun spending time swapping disks doing so.

----------

EDIT: I have read it; have you? If so, point me to the paragraph that prohibits it... AND: I do not use VMware (yet), I use Parallels.

1. the EULA allows you to run one copy on apple branded HARDWARE. yes that is legally ambiguous (no mention of hypervisors), but...
2. there are controls in the OS to stop it running on non-apple hardware, such as in a VM. Circumventing these controls (which is quite possible to get it working) is circumventing a protection device and in violation of the DMCA. this is also why Psystar were screwed from the outset.

Lion explicitly allows VM use in the EULA.


Would apple sue you over it? Probably not. Taking your or my house is small fry. Would they perhaps sue VMWare over it? Maybe, maybe not - VMware don't want to put themselves in that situation - theyre a multi billion dollar corp with a lot more to lose.

 

[zhson]

I think this is a stupid topic. why would you sacrifice other people happiness for your own selfishness. in this world, MAX only 2% of people use optical drive everyday, other 98% of us, don't even want to use it.

Apple didn't put optical drive on the mac mini because
1. cut the over all cost, so it is cheaper for EVERYONE.
2. more compact, in a even smaller size, which what EVERYONE wants

if you really want to burn your file to DVD, get a super driver from apple, single USB port; don't have enough USB ports, buy 10X USB hub from apple.

As your said, use BR disc. that means apple will charge EVERYONE more on the BR optical driver, so you want the 98% of the world to pay on something they will not use?(as said, we don't even use DVD, what will make use use BR, when there is USB or SSD). And if apple increase the price too much, people will just get a windows ultra-book and hackintosh;(I will not pay 2.5k for something I don't need, like ODD, rather just get a windows ultra-book for 1.8k). means apple will lose profile, thanks to the 2%.

P.S: it doesn't matter the 2012 MBP come with it or not, I am still going to buy it, as long as the price still close to the current one now.

 

[MichaelLAX]

1. the EULA allows you to run one copy on apple branded HARDWARE. yes that is legally ambiguous, but...
2. there are controls in the OS to stop it running on non-apple hardware, such as in a VM. Circumventing these controls (which is quite possible to get it working) is circumventing a protection device and in violation of the DMCA. this is also why Psystar were screwed from the outset.

I do not know about you, but I run Parallels on Apple hardware; not a Hackintosh. Your other point is from the Leopard EULA not Snow Leopard. There are no controls in SL to stop it from running in Parallels 7 in Lion.

These foolish arguments always end in "their lawyers are better than you or I." If that is the case, please do not go around posting your legal argument that you cannot support with any facts.

 

[Dark Goob]

*cough* I will try not to totally ruin everything you just posted, but hey, who knows?

1) ever hear of a DVD player? You know, the things that plug into Tvs??? That's what we watch DVDs on. Not laptops, not desktops, generally 90% of the time on a DVD player. Where it makes no difference to the computer.

Wrong... a lot of us use DVDs to save data to that we wish to give to other people without having to use the internet, because it's a bit impractical to send 4GB of data in e-mail and upload speeds are crappy on most broadband. I think my comcast might let me get 1.5megabits/sec upstream, which is like 88 minutes per gigabyte to upload!!

2) a huge number of people ARE moving away from DVDs. And they are the average American. Unlike the 15 min a day count, which is 95% no DVD usage, and the other 5 hammering on about DVDs, and using them all the time

What is the source for your statistic? I really think you are simply disconnected from reality (probably on purpose).

3) the Solution, is to a) get an older laptop, b) move on to a different storage solution, figure out how to live wIth it, c) the OPTION you so yell on about is an external drive, or d) live the rest of your life in a cave somewhere and abandon the world.

Yep, this is the attitude that I'm getting from Apple these days. "Don't like our crappy, gray, un-customizable sidebar icons? Well you're part of the 0.1% of people who don't absolutely love them, go back to your cave."

"Don't like the fact that we force you to download Xcode from the App Store and almost everyone gives it a 1-star review because it just plain crashes all the time? Well you're part of the 0.1% of people who gives a crap that almost everyone hates this. Eat it."

"Don't like the fact that when you deleted that app from your iPad, then restored it back to the iPad from your Mac, the data didn't come over with it? Because when you synced, the data itself that was in that app didn't sync? Well you're part of the 0.1% of people who cares about their data. It's gone! Get over it!"

"Don't like the fact that we gimped Final Cut when we came out with version X, and crapped all over our loyal users who have been supporting us for many years? Well, deal with it, get used to the fact that only 0.1% of people agree with you, we can see the future and it doesn't include the likes of you or those kinds of customers, which is why we crapped on them, since they were going to get crapped on anyway, and no one cares."

Yes, everything Apple decides to do means that if you don't like it, you're therefore part of the vast minority of people who feels that way. Because obviously, if Apple is doing it, then it must mean that everyone wants it (even if they don't know it yet).

And truly, if inserting a USB drive into your computer might damage the logic board, why does apple even have USB? To make logic board problems? I suggest de linting your pockets, or get USB caps, or something... Makes me laugh how you would put DVDs in there but not stick a USB in it because it is "disgusting"

Some people just don't get humor. But also you've never had your Mac's USB ports damaged from some idiot jacking down on the USB stick. It create a point of leverage that the port is not engineered to take, especially over time. I have had many USB ports go bad on many computers. It requires a logic board replacement, which is very expensive. I've had one or two DVD drives go bad too, but they are super cheap and user-replaceable, just like hard drives.

Further, getting software via DVD is nice because if the company comes out with a new update that is craptastic, like Lion, then you have a hard copy of the older version that you can go back to (not an option on things like the App Store). And no, I do not desire to archive all my software off to USB sticks, thank you very much.

 

[MichaelLAX]

Would apple sue you over it? Probably not. Taking your or my house is small fry....

Please do not come into threads and make these ridiculous arguments, when I am posting technical points: your technical responses about VM, Rosetta and SheepShaver are much more appreciated!

 

[Dark Goob]

The MacBook Pro is a tool

The MacBook Pro is a tool. I think of it as a Swiss Army Knife. How often do I use the weird little hook thingy on the Swiss Army Knife? Or the white toothpick? Not super often. But I do use both. And it wouldn't be a Swiss Army Knife without those things.

When I am in the field and for whatever reason I need an optical drive, like to install drivers for a client's printer so I can print something for them on-site, or to access some data that is on DVD at the library, or encode songs from the CD I just bought last night at a show, then my MacBook Pro has it.

Apple is trying to force a change in the world, and speed a decline that it perceives is happening. It is being activist-minded about this. I don't like that. You people want to tell me to accept Apple's activism because there's nothing I can do about it.

Well I'm a paying customer of Apple and so I will make my views known. For every customer like me who makes their views known, there are thousands or hundreds of thousands more who do not say anything, but feel the same exact way. They will also silently accept whatever gets shoved down their throats next, and Apple knows it, and it makes me sick.

But all I can do is speak my mind and take action. Which is what I am doing and what I will do.

 

[Dark Goob]

I think this is a stupid topic. why would you sacrifice other people happiness for your own selfishness. in this world, MAX only 2% of people use optical drive everyday, other 98% of us, don't even want to use it.

So, where is the source of your statistic? Once again, you people just spout lies over and over.

Is Apple seriously paying you to post these things? Or are you just a bot?

Apple didn't put optical drive on the mac mini because
1. cut the over all cost, so it is cheaper for EVERYONE.
2. more compact, in a even smaller size, which what EVERYONE wants

But it wasn't more compact or cheaper. And you don't know what everyone wants.

Again, lies, lies, and more lies. I'm beginning to wonder about you people. Where do you come from? What are you smoking?

if you really want to burn your file to DVD, get a super driver from apple, single USB port; don't have enough USB ports, buy 10X USB hub from apple.

DVD drives don't work on USB hubs, they draw too much power. So again your logic is completely faulty... your disconnect from reality is utter and total...

As your said, use BR disc. that means apple will charge EVERYONE more on the BR optical driver, so you want the 98% of the world to pay on something they will not use?

No I just said for there to be an option for one. Also give the option to put extra battery, or extra SSD, or whatever you want into that same bay. You may not be old enough to remember the PowerBook G3 Wall Street II (PDQ), but it had modular bays in which you could put whatever you want, like a floppy drive, CD drive, battery, or nothing at all for weight savings! This idea of Apple's at that time was applauded by users because it gave us choice.

Now there's people like you who only want to choose what Apple wants you to choose, and anyone who wants a different choice is viewed as being a threat to everyone. That is what we call groupthink and it's very Orwellian and disturbing.

Back in the days of the PowerBook G3, Apple had a saying: "Think Different." It's a motto they could do well to remember now.

(as said, we don't even use DVD, what will make use use BR, when there is USB or SSD).

Blu-ray is faster, cheaper, more archival, and has better quality movies distributed on it. If you don't want to use it, then OK, but that's no reason for the rest of us to suffer because of your inflexibility.

And if apple increase the price too much, people will just get a windows ultra-book and hackintosh;(I will not pay 2.5k for something I don't need, like ODD, rather just get a windows ultra-book for 1.8k). means apple will lose profile, thanks to the 2%.

Lose profile??

P.S: it doesn't matter the 2012 MBP come with it or not, I am still going to buy it, as long as the price still close to the current one now.

A blind follower, exactly. You will buy it either way. Meanwhile, I will not buy it if it lacks a core feature I need. So which customer is Apple going to lose by which decision?

As long as they still have a 15" model with option for optical drive then I'm happy. I don't care how thin it is, it's already thin enough by far. I just don't want to have to buy a 17" model to get optical drive.

 

[Astroboy907]

Wrong... a lot of us use DVDs to save data to that we wish to give to other people without having to use the internet, because it's a bit impractical to send 4GB of data in e-mail and upload speeds are crappy on most broadband. I think my comcast might let me get 1.5megabits/sec upstream, which is like 88 minutes per gigabyte to upload!!

Or- you could use a file sharing system, or use USB, which is just as fast as DVD.

What is the source for your statistic? I really think you are simply disconnected from reality (probably on purpose).

81% of statistics are made up on the spot, anyways.

How about this, will it make you happy? "A large number of consumers are abandoning optical media, and are instead moving on to internet based solutions, or commonly, flash media. With the onset of the internet and file sharing, global CD and DVD production has slowed down immensely"

Yep, this is the attitude that I'm getting from Apple these days. "Don't like our crappy, gray, un-customizable sidebar icons? Well you're part of the 0.1% of people who don't absolutely love them, go back to your cave."

Hack it to all its worth!!! Its not like they are coded, you can probably find PNGs of the icons in the files of the app. Replace them. Anyways, does windows do this? No!!

"Don't like the fact that we force you to download Xcode from the App Store and almost everyone gives it a 1-star review because it just plain crashes all the time? Well you're part of the 0.1% of people who gives a crap that almost everyone hates this. Eat it."

Yep! Or download an older copy of it...

"Don't like the fact that when you deleted that app from your iPad, then restored it back to the iPad from your Mac, the data didn't come over with it? Because when you synced, the data itself that was in that app didn't sync? Well you're part of the 0.1% of people who cares about their data. It's gone! Get over it!"

There is a fine line between laziness and stupidity. Really? Too bad about this, its not hard to move over data..,

Yes, everything Apple decides to do means that if you don't like it, you're therefore part of the vast minority of people who feels that way. Because obviously, if Apple is doing it, then it must mean that everyone wants it (even if they don't know it yet).

Well, I love apple products but I think apple is stupid about some things, like compatibility with windows apps. I'm not an iSheep- I find workarounds.

Some people just don't get humor. But also you've never had your Mac's USB ports damaged from some idiot jacking down on the USB stick. It create a point of leverage that the port is not engineered to take, especially over time. I have had many USB ports go bad on many computers. It requires a logic board replacement, which is very expensive. I've had one or two DVD drives go bad too, but they are super cheap and user-replaceable, just like hard drives.


Try doing a DIY fix! Learn how to fix it yourself! Or get rid of the idiot who is pushing on the USB!

Further, getting software via DVD is nice because if the company comes out with a new update that is craptastic, like Lion, then you have a hard copy of the older version that you can go back to (not an option on things like the App Store). And no, I do not desire to archive all my software off to USB sticks, thank you very much.

How about buying an external and burning software to that? I have like 3 hard copies of lion sitting around...

And DVD drives CAN use 1 port! Um, how about taking a look at apples superdrive for the macbook air? Research before posting some crap about it...

 

[Queen6]

Best part of this debate is Apple`s going to to do what they want, they have always followed this path simple. If the ODD gets the cut the OP should just buy a Late 2011 MBP, it`s not like he is going to be getting an obsolete system.

I personally have uses for the super drive, however not while on the move, as long as Apple offers an external solution I dont see many missing the ODD too much. At the end of the day if Apple dont produce what I want i will just look elsewhere or push comes to shove Hacintosh, it`s the OS I buy them, for not the wow factor

 

[mrsir2009]

Your a small minority, and I think Apple is just doing what the minority wants. I never use the DVD drive on my MBP anymore, and no one that I know uses the DVD drive on their laptop on a regular basis.

----------

Again with the lies. Look. I am totally cool with it if you want the option to NOT have a DVD drive. Just don't take the optical slot away from the rest of us who use it nearly every day. Why not just make it an OPTION? Ever heard of OPTIONS?

Apple are probably going to make the MacBook Pro thinner, and change it's design, so there would be no room for an optical drive 'option'.

 

[Astroboy907]

Your a small minority, and I think Apple is just doing what the minority wants. I never use the DVD drive on my MBP anymore, and no one that I know uses the DVD drive on their laptop on a regular basis.

----------



Apple are probably going to make the MacBook Pro thinner, and change it's design, so there would be no room for an optical drive 'option'.

So true.

And to OP, I totally do not care AT ALL about a design refresh. To me, its a good form factor and they could use the space to push battery or cooling.... But it looks like its going to be thinner. Not my favorite, but I suppose its ok. Unfortunately, my 12.5mm HDD will be obsolete But in 3 years time, I suppose SSDs will be pretty cheap..

 

[ljonesj]

i dont think some people realize parts of the united states and parts of the world do not have broadband to support digital anything so a dvd drive in the machine and ethernet are nescarry part of the computer

 

[pragmatous]

It's dead jim!

No I just know and understand technology better than you because I work in it.

Every technology has it's downside and the upside. That is irrelevant. It is more about where society is going. Right now it's going to streaming movies, a cloud to store data rather it is thru a service or some device you own, and app stores like steam and appstore.

This is just how it is and you will have to accept it. DVD's are becoming the way of the floppy. Blu-ray will never make it to mainstream because of the above technologies.

By the way:
SAMSUNG S2 320GB USB 2.0 Portable External Hard Drive HX-MU032DA/G22 $59.99 and a bit more convenient and faster 10 times faster. It's also cheaper. I'm pretty sure re-writable blu-ray discs are a tad bit more and a lot slower.

Verbatim 25GB 2X BD-RE 5 Packs Jewel Case Disc Model 43615 - $21.99 - if you go by your "25 discs" rule that is roughly $109.95.

UNLESS you actually believe you're saving money by buying blu-ray write once media over a 320GB hard drive. With the money you're spending on blu-ray discs you can buy a NAS with 4TB of space, have the drives mirrored, and you would achieve the same goal.

The whole concept of "use dvd's or tape" to back up things is now dead besides for businesses but they're buying 1.5TB tapes at 99 dollars a pop. Hard drives are stable enough where you have the same odds of a bad tape or bad dvd.

Like I said maybe you should join us future folk. It's not so bad once you get the hang of it.

Regardless DVD is a dead technology. What you're doing with blu-ray can be achieved with a NAS.

You're like the guy that can't give up novell. It's dead jim move on.

Dude you're smoking crack. Blu-Ray is the future. I can buy 25 discs of 25gb each, with 50-year archival life, for $62.99 at Fry's. Lets see, that's about 10gb per dollar of archival, permanent storage.

How in the world is a crappy made-in-china USB drive better than an archival Blu-Ray disc? Answer: it's not better, it's worse.

When I get home from a photo shoot with three 8gb cards full, I burn them all to a Blu-Ray and now it's backed up -- even if my Time Machine drive and regular drive somehow both fail at the same time.

I can write on that disc with a Sharpie what the contents of it are. Also can't do that with a USB stick. I can have a file with all my discs in a big archival binder, and I can flip through it and see the writing on the discs and find the one I'm looking for. Can't do that with USB sticks.

I freaking hate USB sticks. For one thing, my Mac does not have any free available USB ports. They are all in use. I do not feel like unplugging any peripherals (you know, those things for which USB was invented).

If I want to put in an optical disc however I can put it in the slot that was designed for the without having to detach a hard drive, sound interface, keyboard, modem, scanner, monitor, hub, or anything else that I don't feel like disconnecting.

As for the "cloud"? Store all my most valuable works of art on someone else's computer, where anyone who hacks it can get all my files? Where if they decide to one day change their TOS or delete my files, then I have no say in the matter? Where if the internet is out, you can't access it? Where if you live in the boondocks or a third-world country and have crappy internet, it's worthless? Sorry, thanks but no thanks.

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Then Apple or any other tech company doesn't give 2 cents about you. If 2 people are living in a cave should we then be concerned that they don't have electricity? DO we really need to cater to the 2 people that live in caves vs the millions that live in houses?

Chances are if you don't have broadband you probably have no clue how to buy a computer to begin with. Goes back to the caveman metaphor. Cavemen have no idea how to get a TV let alone turn it on (as they have had no electricity). I'm guessing they wouldn't even care about owning a TV.

i dont think some people realize parts of the united states and parts of the world do not have broadband to support digital anything so a dvd drive in the machine and ethernet are nescarry part of the computer

 

[ljonesj]

oh you are funny my cousins for years had computers but could only get phone line internet as they could not get broadband untill like 4years ago as it was not offered in their area. they only live like 10 miles from me and i had broadband cable internet and sometimes broadband is not reliable as i recieve full power to my cable for internet and burns out sometimes as the node is at my power poll in my front yard and some isp's have data caps so if you stream netflix a lot u hit your cap fast so say if you have a 30 day billing cycle and your on day 15 and you hit your cap and you have the mac mini with no dvd player and its your home theatre unit for streaming your screwed for dvds if you dont have a stand alone dvd player

 

[salmoally]

ODD will be gone in the next MBP. Deal with it.

 

[leman]

I know that Apple hates backwards compatibility and hates to acknowledge things its customers wants, that it doesn't want them to want. For example, Blu Ray support, 3D support, and AVCHD playback support, to name a few. But frankly it ticks me off when users like you guys actually defend Apple's format war and would actually say that people buying a new Mac shouldn't even have the option of a built-in optical drive, even if they need it, even when statistics show most Americans still use DVD and there are plenty of other arguments why optical media ought to be a built-in core feature of a computer (especially a portable one).

I just must comment on this.

First, there is nothing wrong with providing an option, but its wrong to design the whole computer around an option. For instance, a laptop with a ODD requires a whole different case. Do you suggest they make two different production lines to accomodate the few people who would want an ODD?

The fact is, while there are sill lots of optical discs around, the format is long outdated and the sooner it dies the better. There are much better alternatives for almost any use case. I applaud Apple if they can accelerate its death. By your logic each computer should still be equipped with a floppy drive. At some point you just have to make a statement.

And finally, how much of your rural americans, who are without internet access and still using video tapes (yikes! I though the US was technologically advanced?), are likely to purchase an Apple product? How are your statistics even meaningful in this regard?

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Wrong... a lot of us use DVDs to save data to that we wish to give to other people without having to use the internet, because it's a bit impractical to send 4GB of data in e-mail and upload speeds are crappy on most broadband. I think my comcast might let me get 1.5megabits/sec upstream, which is like 88 minutes per gigabyte to upload!!

What is the source of your claim? For the last few years I never met a SINGLE person who would use anything but internet or an USB stick for data exchange. I really don't see how something as loud, unwieldy and fragile as an optical disk can even compare. My home is optical disk free since 3 years and I am very happy I don't have to deal with that stuff anymore.

And Blu Ray... why would I care about that? I have a 2.5" 750 USB HDD which is probably faster to read and much faster to write than your disks, costs around the same, much more compact and user friendly (you don't have to go though dozens of disks to find the correct one), doesn't need excessive power or additional equipment to write or change data etc. If you want to take your media files with you, are you really carrying around a rack full of ODDs? My external HDD takes almost no place in my backpack. For backups, a NAS or even an USB HDD are much quicker and more convenient.

 

[iThinkergoiMac]

Dude you're smoking crack. Blu-Ray is the future. I can buy 25 discs of 25gb each, with 50-year archival life, for $62.99 at Fry's. Lets see, that's about 10gb per dollar of archival, permanent storage.

I would hardly consider 50 years permanent. But your argument is invalid. Archival storage is something optical discs are good at and flash drives are not. Being rewritten many times and transferring data quickly is something flash drives are good at and optical discs are not. Apples and oranges.

How in the world is a crappy made-in-china USB drive better than an archival Blu-Ray disc? Answer: it's not better, it's worse.

Answer: I use my crappy flash drive for things I don't use optical discs for, and vice-versa. So one is not better than the other because they're used for different things.

When I get home from a photo shoot with three 8gb cards full, I burn them all to a Blu-Ray and now it's backed up -- even if my Time Machine drive and regular drive somehow both fail at the same time.

Yes, that's a great use for blurays, and not flash drives. But flash drives aren't MEANT for that, so stop making arguments based on the premise that they are.

I can write on that disc with a Sharpie what the contents of it are. Also can't do that with a USB stick. I can have a file with all my discs in a big archival binder, and I can flip through it and see the writing on the discs and find the one I'm looking for. Can't do that with USB sticks.

I can write on my USB drives with a Sharpie. If I put my USB sticks on a ring I could easily flip through them. These are trivial points.

I freaking hate USB sticks. For one thing, my Mac does not have any free available USB ports. They are all in use. I do not feel like unplugging any peripherals (you know, those things for which USB was invented).

If your Mac doesn't have any free ports, that's your fault and no one else's. Get a hub, that's what they're for. I have a 7 port hub and it works wonders.

If I want to put in an optical disc however I can put it in the slot that was designed for the without having to detach a hard drive, sound interface, keyboard, modem, scanner, monitor, hub, or anything else that I don't feel like disconnecting.

Me too. Because I have a hub. I've got about 4 free ports right now.

As for the "cloud"? Store all my most valuable works of art on someone else's computer, where anyone who hacks it can get all my files? Where if they decide to one day change their TOS or delete my files, then I have no say in the matter? Where if the internet is out, you can't access it? Where if you live in the boondocks or a third-world country and have crappy internet, it's worthless? Sorry, thanks but no thanks.

The Cloud surely has its own issues, no question. Something like Dropbox means I DO have access to my files even without the internet. Do you live in a third-world country? Is anyone in a third-world country likely to buy a Mac? Not to negate the problems of third-world countries, but they're irrelevant here.

You've made a bunch of arguments about how you personally would be detrimentally affected if Apple were to drop the ODD. But you've made no arguments that extend beyond yourself. You can't write on a USB drive with a Sharpie. Really? That's the kind of persuasive argument you want to go with?

Bring us some global reasons Apple shouldn't drop the ODD. Tell me why removing a power-hungry (while in use) part of the computer and replacing it with more battery would be a bad thing. The only times I ever use optical discs are primarily when I'm sitting at home and my MBP is plugged into my external monitor, 2 external HDDs, speakers, etc (it's basically a desktop at that point). I think I have only ever once used an optical disc while on the go in recent memory.

I realize that your situation is different than most, but Apple caters to the most. As for that article you quoted, it doesn't help you much either. It was primarily about DVD-Video, while you're trying to make an argument for optical discs as a data storage medium.

Finally, you bring up blurays as a great storage medium a fair amount. If you're using them, you're already using an external ODD and you're fine with it. If you're not, you'll have to. Apple will never include bluray as an ODD.

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Again, your figure is a plain lie. Statistics show that Americans spend 15 minutes a day using a DVD. So maybe, an hour every four days. Yeah, that was last year, but it hasn't fallen off a cliff. Ever go to the supermarket? See the "Red Box"? Ever go to the library? See the DVD/CD section? Ask the librarians how many people check out DVDs and CDs every day, and they will tell you that it's not an insignificant number.

The argument here is about whether or not the MBP should lose the ODD. Where do you think most of those DVDs go? Not into a laptop! They're primarily played back on DVD players or HTPCs or the like. CDs are more likely to go into a computer, yes. So, yes, people spend an average of 15 minutes a day using a DVD. And the vast majority is through something hooked up to a TV, not a MBP.

No one is making a point that we should destroy every optical drive in existence when the MBP loses its. But you seem to think we are, and pull in non-relevant statistics to prove us wrong. You've pulled the argument way off the track stated when you started this thread.