iMac G3 revived and Windows on Q'

[comda]

Greetings fellow PowerPC users!

As I may have mentioned in a previous post or two i finally did the proper upgrade on my little Tangerine DV model Imac. Since I was home from Christmas i figured since i got my hands on another Imac (the indigo 350Mhz no firewire) i figured i should get the better one up and running first.

I started with Finally upgrading the RAM from 320mb to 1gb. Then i replaced the not so loud but not quiet 20gb hard drive to a IDE 80Gb which hums quietly. Then lastly I bought a AA battery holder soldered two cables to the clock battery and voila it holds time. I upgraded the firmware so no more JAGUAR!

The thing now flies with Tiger on it. And after disabling the Spotlight and dashboard cause its only the 400Mhz and its pretty fast. I looked through the PowerPC archive. (thanks to the guy who put it up) and found some great software for it one of them being Spark So i can have volume on my old original USB keyboard and Q. I figured, i once ran windows Xp on a 266Mhz machine im sure i can emulate it here. However i did not see any settings as to CPU usage. I did VM's on my macbook and only used 1 core. But here i got nothing. So i grabbed a XP home CD and began going with a wopping 256MB RAm. The setup proceeded with Formating and copying files but when the VM restarted and here is my issue. The Computer wouldnt go past the Second Setup screen. The Dvd drive kept the DVD going throughout a few hours but the progress bar sat at 39Minutes remaining. Anyone ever get XP on an imac? just thought it would be cool as i upgraded this machine pretty far id like to see if this can work.

As well Is there a way to upgrade the itunes to version 7?? The guy in this youtube video got Tiger on a 350MHz and itunes 7.7. but Tigers update only lets me use the software update to version 4 i think. Anywhere i can get version 7? anyone confirmed this works?

 

[Dronecatcher]

Greetings fellow PowerPC users!

As I may have mentioned in a previous post or two i finally did the proper upgrade on my little Tangerine DV model Imac. Since I was home from Christmas i figured since i got my hands on another Imac (the indigo 350Mhz no firewire) i figured i should get the better one up and running first.

I started with Finally upgrading the RAM from 320mb to 1gb. Then i replaced the not so loud but not quiet 20gb hard drive to a IDE 80Gb which hums quietly. Then lastly I bought a AA battery holder soldered two cables to the clock battery and voila it holds time. I upgraded the firmware so no more JAGUAR!

The thing now flies with Tiger on it. And after disabling the Spotlight and dashboard cause its only the 400Mhz and its pretty fast. I looked through the PowerPC archive. (thanks to the guy who put it up) and found some great software for it one of them being Spark So i can have volume on my old original USB keyboard and Q. I figured, i once ran windows Xp on a 266Mhz machine im sure i can emulate it here. However i did not see any settings as to CPU usage. I did VM's on my macbook and only used 1 core. But here i got nothing. So i grabbed a XP home CD and began going with a wopping 256MB RAm. The setup proceeded with Formating and copying files but when the VM restarted and here is my issue. The Computer wouldnt go past the Second Setup screen. The Dvd drive kept the DVD going throughout a few hours but the progress bar sat at 39Minutes remaining. Anyone ever get XP on an imac? just thought it would be cool as i upgraded this machine pretty far id like to see if this can work.

As well Is there a way to upgrade the itunes to version 7?? The guy in this youtube video got Tiger on a 350MHz and itunes 7.7. but Tigers update only lets me use the software update to version 4 i think. Anywhere i can get version 7? anyone confirmed this works?

I think you've pushed your iMac too far! I'm pretty sure the G3 is well below the minimum requirements to emulate any flavour of Windows. As a comparison I have Virtual PC on my dual 2.3 G5 - it runs XP at a snails pace (though useable) but is quite snappy with Windows 95...but even that is slower than 95 running on a 166Mhz Pentium laptop I have!
I don't know whether Q is any more efficient than Virtual PC as I've never used it but I suspect it'll need a G4 over 1Ghz to have success.

 

[Intell]

You can upgrade up to iTunes version 9.1. You have to manually extract the update as it won't allow it to run on G3's.

 

[bunnspecial]

I run Virtual PC w/XP Pro on my dual core G5 and its so slow as to be almost unusable. I wouldn't bother with it if my work didn't require Originplot(Windows only).

I wish that Virtual PC would allow me to allocate more than 512mb of RAM.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

There was a version of Windows--released in 2008--called "Windows Fundamentals". In a nutshell, it was a stripped-down version of Windows XP, meant for legacy PCs. It wasn't distributed to the public, but rather to businesses and such (but you can download it online from other sources). The minimum requirements are astonishing; it requires at least 64MB of RAM, 512MB-1GB HD space, and something like a Pentium III xxxMhz. It was designed to breathe life into old computers so that companies wouldn't have to pour money into new hardware... I know, I wish Apple had done something like this!

If this would work on your G3, I'd try it. I myself am gonna try it out on a trashy Windows computer, to see how it runs.

P.S. I didn't see anything in Spark that pertained to volume keys, nor was I able to search and find how it is you set them up. Can you tell me how you did it? I'd like to be able to create a volume function on my Apple USB keyboard, or perhaps my ol' Apple Extended Keyboard I.

 

[comda]

There was a version of Windows--released in 2008--called "Windows Fundamentals". In a nutshell, it was a stripped-down version of Windows XP, meant for legacy PCs. It wasn't distributed to the public, but rather to businesses and such (but you can download it online from other sources). The minimum requirements are astonishing; it requires at least 64MB of RAM, 512MB-1GB HD space, and something like a Pentium III xxxMhz. It was designed to breathe life into old computers so that companies wouldn't have to pour money into new hardware... I know, I wish Apple had done something like this!

If this would work on your G3, I'd try it. I myself am gonna try it out on a trashy Windows computer, to see how it runs.

P.S. I didn't see anything in Spark that pertained to volume keys, nor was I able to search and find how it is you set them up. Can you tell me how you did it? I'd like to be able to create a volume function on my Apple USB keyboard, or perhaps my ol' Apple Extended Keyboard I.

Those Specs are the same min specs that the original XP disk requires. and as to the SPark application i was able to use the F9 through F12 keys plus control so (Control + F9) to control volume. It was fairly simple to setup. And if XP is too much for it then perhaps ill try giving good olde Windows 2K a go. Maybe ill be lucky. I know its a long shot for a tired out 400Mhz Imac G3 but i want to give it a go!

 

[weckart]

There was a version of Windows--released in 2008--called "Windows Fundamentals". In a nutshell, it was a stripped-down version of Windows XP, meant for legacy PCs...
If this would work on your G3, I'd try it. I myself am gonna try it out on a trashy Windows computer, to see how it runs.

I had a go once a few years back. It was kind of clunky and really not much faster than full fat XP. You might as well try getting hold of Win 7 Starter to have an idea. If resources are an issue, I would try running Win 98 or NT4 as long as those support the software you want to run.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

Those Specs are the same min specs that the original XP disk requires. and as to the SPark application i was able to use the F9 through F12 keys plus control so (Control + F9) to control volume. It was fairly simple to setup. And if XP is too much for it then perhaps ill try giving good olde Windows 2K a go. Maybe ill be lucky. I know its a long shot for a tired out 400Mhz Imac G3 but i want to give it a go!

Ah, I see. Okay, I will give Spark a go later.

Hmm... there IS something called "micro XP", which is incredibly stripped down. It was compiled by some 3rd party group. I would check that out if Windows 2000 is too old.

 

[PowerMac G4 MDD]

I had a go once a few years back. It was kind of clunky and really not much faster than full fat XP. You might as well try getting hold of Win 7 Starter to have an idea. If resources are an issue, I would try running Win 98 or NT4 as long as those support the software you want to run.

Really? Hmm, well, 2000 is an option, but I won't end up messing with it anyway, as it was just a fun thought (I also already have a few computers running 2000).

 

[MagicBoy]

I had a go once a few years back. It was kind of clunky and really not much faster than full fat XP. You might as well try getting hold of Win 7 Starter to have an idea. If resources are an issue, I would try running Win 98 or NT4 as long as those support the software you want to run.

Really? Hmm, well, 2000 is an option, but I won't end up messing with it anyway, as it was just a fun thought (I also already have a few computers running 2000).

Fundamentals was intended for re-using dumpster worthy Pentium II PCs as thin-clients - it was roughly equivalent to XP Embedded as used in "as new" thin-clients and POS (Point of Sale) systems. We used it at work for a division that used Citrix to replace some DOS 486 machines with newer hardware another division was disposing of. They eventually got replaced a year later with proper thin-clients as the power savings would pay back the hardware cost. That said I knew a fair few people that used it on early netbooks, and it did make a difference to performance.

2000/XP are pretty much the same underneath once you strip the teletubbies UI off. Rather telling that the XP version number was NT 5.1 vs NT 5.0 for Windows 2000. There's a few detail differences, but that was MS forcing the issue to keep the companies on Enterprise Agreements!

 

[Dronecatcher]

Just to see if it's possible...I've installed Windows 2000 on my G3 iMac and indeed it is. I used Virtual PC 5 and it runs incredibly slow but as you can see I had it running a module player. I also installed Windows 2000 on my 1.25 Powerbook, this time under VPC7 and that runs at full pelt - which surprises me. By the way, all flavours of VPC are available at the ever excellent http://macintoshgarden.org site.

 

[comda]

Just to see if it's possible...I've installed Windows 2000 on my G3 iMac and indeed it is. I used Virtual PC 5 and it runs incredibly slow but as you can see I had it running a module player. I also installed Windows 2000 on my 1.25 Powerbook, this time under VPC7 and that runs at full pelt - which surprises me. By the way, all flavours of VPC are available at the ever excellent http://macintoshgarden.org site.

This is really cool! Its a shame i couldnt get windows Xp to rock, but perhaps it was just Q being difficult and not being able to allocate proper CPU power. Now that i know Macintosh Garden has it here:
http://macintoshgarden.org/apps/connectix-virtual-pc-50504

I can try it again! I basically just for kicks want to get windows 98 SE working and to see if i can run some basic dos games. Just play around with the system. Sadly now that I am back at the campus i wont be with my Imacs until the weekend but it will most likely be a bit before i can take a crack at this.
Could you post a screen shot in W2k going to start> run>dxdiag and seeing what CPU clock speed it posts?

But i do want to know. Whats with the linux Penguin and what is Mplayer? What are these applications?

 

[bse5150]

what is Mplayer?

MPlayer is one of the best media players you can get for Linux/BSD/etc. It will play just about anything you throw at it.

 

[Dronecatcher]

As requested, screenshot with dxdiag running. It's completely off the mark though, there's no way it's performing anywhere near that speed - I'd say it's somewhere between 25 and 100Mhz judging by various apps I've tried.

The penguin is Tux Racer - also on the screen for reference.

Mplayer OSX is a low resource video player, though I've found VLC to slightly have the edge.

EDIT: Mplayer binary run from Terminal however is tops.

 

[comda]

Thanks for the replies. Ive noticed you are only using 96 Mb of Ram in 2000, i beleive thats the min. I have 1Gb in my G3, so ill give 2000 maybe 256 or 320 and see its performance. it is only a 400Mhz though.. guess ill posting once i get around to do it.

 

[gavinstubbs09]

Some info on Windows FLP, extremely fast. Booted up in 7 seconds on a Inspiron 600m with a 1.6GHz Pentium M and 512MB Ram.

This is a good option for sure, now that PowerMac G4 MDD brought it up I might have to try it on my Digital Audio G4!

 

[bunnspecial]

Thanks for the replies. Ive noticed you are only using 96 Mb of Ram in 2000, i beleive thats the min. I have 1Gb in my G3, so ill give 2000 maybe 256 or 320 and see its performance. it is only a 400Mhz though.. guess ill posting once i get around to do it.

I mentioned this above, but one of my big complains about Virtual PC is how much it limits your RAM allocation.

I have 10gb in my G5 so have plenty of RAM to spare, but can still only give XP 512mb. I feel like it would run a little bit better if I could at least give it 1gb.

Even "back in the day" when I bought a new laptop for college with XP pre-installed(I think it was 6 months or a year before Vista came out) I upgrade the base 256mb of RAM to 1gb and it made a HUGE difference back then in how the computer ran.

Incidentally, my room mate had a 15" DLSD Powerbook. It was a bit outdated at the time(I started college in the fall of '06), although he consciously chose the Powerbook over a Macbook Pro as he consider software availability better at the time. I find it interesting that I'm still regularly using my DSLD(admittedly bought 6 months ago and not new). I still have the Gateway, but it long ago passed the point of being useable. Of course, the Gateway was also $500 and I think I remember my room mate saying his Powerbook was close to $2000...

 

[Dronecatcher]

Thanks for the replies. Ive noticed you are only using 96 Mb of Ram in 2000, i beleive thats the min. I have 1Gb in my G3, so ill give 2000 maybe 256 or 320 and see its performance. it is only a 400Mhz though.. guess ill posting once i get around to do it.

I've just tried Windows 2000 on OS9, same G3 and with Virtual PC 4. Much better performance than VPC5 on OS X - still clunky obviously but more fun!

 

[bunnspecial]

I've just tried Windows 2000 on OS9, same G3 and with Virtual PC 4. Much better performance than VPC5 on OS X - still clunky obviously but more fun!

When I use OS 9 now I think it looks a bit dated and clunky, but side by side with its contemporaries(i.e. Win 98, NT 4.0, and 2000) it actually looks pretty nice. This is especially apparent in your side-by-side comparison above.

Of course, one of the things that always bugged me "back in the day" was the text rendering since I was use to the crisp, jagged look of Windows. Now that I use OS X pretty much full time-and Windows has made the rendering more like OS X-I find OS 9 a lot more pleasing to the eye to use. To be honest, I find OS 9 to look great on a newer, high resolution LCD or CRT.

 

[Dronecatcher]

When I use OS 9 now I think it looks a bit dated and clunky, but side by side with its contemporaries(i.e. Win 98, NT 4.0, and 2000) it actually looks pretty nice. This is especially apparent in your side-by-side comparison above.

Of course, one of the things that always bugged me "back in the day" was the text rendering since I was use to the crisp, jagged look of Windows. Now that I use OS X pretty much full time-and Windows has made the rendering more like OS X-I find OS 9 a lot more pleasing to the eye to use. To be honest, I find OS 9 to look great on a newer, high resolution LCD or CRT.

I'm still fond of the OS9 look and it's nice to occasionally return to and dabble but I'm not so keen on the managing of extensions, unprotected memory and the hard resets when one app misbehaves!

 

[comda]

When I use OS 9 now I think it looks a bit dated and clunky, but side by side with its contemporaries(i.e. Win 98, NT 4.0, and 2000) it actually looks pretty nice. This is especially apparent in your side-by-side comparison above.

Of course, one of the things that always bugged me "back in the day" was the text rendering since I was use to the crisp, jagged look of Windows. Now that I use OS X pretty much full time-and Windows has made the rendering more like OS X-I find OS 9 a lot more pleasing to the eye to use. To be honest, I find OS 9 to look great on a newer, high resolution LCD or CRT.

I couldnt agree more. a Nice CRT or LCD makes the computer experience a better one for sure! I dont know the exact model but i have an old 17 inch Panasonic. Heavy and big. its a CRT. its actually posted here: https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=520379&d=1419015480

From my "return of the beige G3" post. Its a lovely screen compared to all other cheaper Crts ive used. I do aswell enjoy the imac g3 Crt and Emacs. They are amazing.