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Discussion in 'Mac Basics and Help' started by Mr Ikasu, Jun 27, 2006.
Didn't see any post.
Hold down CMD-OPT-O-F during startup, and then type in reset-all.
This wil reset your firmware, which could be the culprit.
Let us know how this works.
Hmm, something went wrong there!
I'll try and summarise my post.
Woke me up this morning after the fans had gone on full blast (put in sleep last night as I always do)
No response from mouse or KB (USB or BT) so hard re-booted.
Fan stayed on loud and during the boot with the white screen with the logo on the nice grey screen came over the top with "You need to reboot your computer..."
At this time the power button wouldnt switch off the Mac even after holding for 20 seconds so i pulled the plug on it.
Booted up next time but the "You need to reboot..." screen came up after a minute or so.
This is what my Mac is doin every time now.
And I'll try your method in a sec iGary. Thanks!
If that doesn't do it, repair your permissions, run weekly daily and monthly scripts, update the prebinding...let us know if you need the procedures for doing those.
Can you boot from the OSX disc (hold C at startup)? If so, go to Disk Utility (I think it'll be in the Installer menu) and try repairing your disk.
Right, just powered it on to reset the Open Firmware but all thats happening is the sleep light comes on for about 3 minutes then the logo on the white background appears for a second or two before the grey screen takes over and the fans go into overdrive.
Seems to be getting worse by the minute.
I have to go out now for the next 4 hours or so but I will have more of a play with it when I get back. I'm goin to leave the iMac completely powered off.
Thanks so much for your help.
That's what I would do next. You are having a kernel panic during startup, from the sounds of it.
Right, I tried the Firmware reset and it did boot up after but did the same thing after about 15 minutes.
I will try the Disk Repair as this seems quite likley the problem, in that it crashes when it tries to swap something into a dodgy sector or something.
The only problem is that the original disk is in the box right up in by attic, would it work as well if I booted it in Target Disk Mode with Firewire to my iBook and ran Disk Utility on the iBook but on the iMac disk (if that makes sense). If not I guess I better go searching!
Thanks again for all your help.
I repaired my friends iBook (hd) with my mini once..
Cheers, yeh the repaired appeared to go alright with the iBook connected to the iMac but now when I boot up I get the message
"Invalid instruction access at (funny symbol)SRR0:"
and the fan goes on full after about 30 seconds of it saying this.
Going to try a firmware reset again but other than that I'm unsure what to do.
 on booting to Open Firmware the above message simply kept appearing.
Rebooted and briefly went to the desktop before being forced to restart, rebooted again and the above error reappeared.
this is almost exactly what ive been experiencing, although not as frequent, on a 20"imac g5 isight.
[If that doesn't do it, repair your permissions, run weekly daily and monthly scripts, update the prebinding...let us know if you need the procedures for doing those. ]
what are these?
Finder->Applications->Utilities->Disk Utility->Repair Permissions
Enter "sudo periodic daily weekly monthly" (sans quotes)
Then enter "sudo update prebinding -root / -force" (sans quotes)
Right, latest update, computer seems to boot fine again!
Repaired permissions and those other Terminal things iGary suggested but after a few minutes on the Mac the keyboard and mouse just stop doing anything and then the message ("You need to reboot...") appears a minute or so later.
Are there any other things I could usefully try or should I look into getting it repaired/replaced by Apple?
Okay, unplug everything that's not essential on your machine (printer, hubs, external drives or whatever). Now, I don't know how well the disk was repaired. Try running fsck. This is effectively the same as running the disk repair from the OSX discs. If it says it makes any changes, then run it again until it makes no changes.
Cool, now once that's done, try resetting your SMU. There's some overlap with what iGary told you to do by resetting through open firmware but this technique also resets a few other settings that may have corrupted.
Finally, if you manage to get back into the system long enough, try logging the kernel panic. This may help tell us what's going wrong.
Thanks again for your suggestions.
fsck ran and reported no errors first time through, ran a second time just to be safe but it still reported the disk was okay.
I reset the SMU and rebooted and whilst it still froze after a few minutes using the system, the "You need to reboot..." screen didn't come on for about 3 minutes after this point and the loud fans never came on. So possibly I had two problems and this has solved one of them.
 just booted up again and the "You need to reboot..." screen is appearing on the white background with apple logo screen and it's not getting to the desktop at all.[/edit]
As for the kernal logging, I have copied the /Library/Logs/panic.log file onto my Public iDisk at http://idisk.mac.com/mrikasu-Public (note that this is from before the SMU was reset)
Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to read through my panic.log file!
I read through the log but am not nearly smart enough to have noticed anything worthwhile. Do you have third party RAM? If so, take it out and try again. Also, if you've booted off the CD/DVD, does it kernel panic?
Ok, thanks for looking anyway, your help has been great!
I do have a 1GB stick of Crucial RAM that I've added but removing this hasn't cured it. I will keep it out until (if) I fix it anyway though, just so there is one less variable!
I'm unsure as to the exact whereabouts (lost it )of my orginal iMac disk. i have tried a 10.4.0 disk that I've borrowed off a friend and it isn't booting up at all, showing that 'no' sign in place of the Apple after a few minutes of trying to access it.
I am thinking the next thing for me to do is to get hold of a Firewire HDD to mirror what is on the iMac now so I have a complete backup. Then I can try reinstalling Tiger and see if that helps or if not I can just wipe the internal hard drive a few times and send the iMac back to Apple. I'm going to order a Firewire disk now since I've been meaning to get one for the iBook for a while but in the meantime are there any other things I could try?
 It's now been running fine for an hour so I am thinking that maybe the RAM was the issue and that it just was still a bit messed up the first time I tried after removing the RAM.
I'll wait another day before I declare case closed but it's looking hopeful *cue my Mac dying on me now...*
Thanks once more for all your help! I'd be lost without it.
Okay well good luck with it and keep us posted. It's not terribly uncommon for the effects of bad RAM to continue even after the RAM has been removed.
The iMac probably wouldn't boot form the 10.4.0 disc because it was either not a retail copy (came with a different Mac) or the iMac came with a more recent version of Tiger. If you need to reinstall OSX then you'll want either the restore discs that came with the machine or a retail version of Tiger that is at least as new as the original point release of OSX that came pre-installed on the iMac.
However, I don't think a reinstall will be necessary. If you're bored then maybe run fsck again just to ensure your file system is okay and then see how things go.
Right well I was feeling all upbeat about it last night. Used the Mac for 6 hours non stop with no signs that anything was wrong.
This morning however when I booted up the mouse just froze on the screen and the loud fans came on for about a minute then it all just started working again and the fans went back to normal as if nothing had happened. So it seemed like it would just be doing the same as it has been except the kernal panic screen never came up and I haven't had to reboot.
It now seems to be doing this every 15 minutes or so.
The 3rd party RAM is still removed and I haven't changed anything since yesterday.
I've run fsck again and it still reports it's okay.
Thanks again for the help mad jew!
Okay, hopefully this won't come to a reinstall but I'm stuck for where to go next. What apps are open when this freezes? If it's immediately after login then check your Login Items too, in the Accounts pane of System Preferences, and turn off where necessary.
If it keeps happening regularly, open a new user account in System Preferences ad see whether your problems carry over. Assuming there's no third party hardware installed and since the RAM has been removed, this might be a software issue (hopefully).
If it's not too difficult to get the restore discs down from the attic then I'd also try using the bundled hardware test (it'll be on Disc 1) to see whether it picks anything up. These aren't surefire tests and sometimes overlook major problems but if it finds anything wrong, that'd be very useful.
I've spent this afternoon trying to tie the problem down but I'm not getting very far. The kernal panic screens are reappearing, sometimes even before boot.
- Still happens with all login items removed and no apps open
- Same thing on new user account
- All Third Party hardware removed, just an Apple KB and Mouse left plugged in
I'm going to get hold of the install disk off a friend who bought the 17" iSight iMac at the same time as me (I have the 20") I take it the disk will be identical.
Then I will try the hardware test and do a reinstall if that doesn't give me anything.
I'm just goin to order an external drive so that I can copy my stuff off the iMac.
This sound a good course of action? All other methods don't seem to have got me far.
Sounds like a good plan. I have an awful feeling this may end up being a job for AppleCare though.
The most important thing to do right now is back up your data. I don't see any clear reason why you'll lose all your files anytime soon (these panics aren't really seeing to affect the hard disk at this stage) but it'd suck if you did.
The external hard drive is here and I've done a clone of my iMac hard drive using Carbon Copy Cloner (running on the iBook).
Got hold of my mates iMac install disks (from same model) and it boots up from the CD but still kernel panics after a few minutes.
This clearly shows that it is not anything that would be fixed by a reinstall as we are not running of the hard drive so it must be hardware related, yes?
I am planning to take it to the KRCS repair centre ( http://www.krcs.co.uk/support-walkin.html ) as it is just a 5 minute drive from me but I just wanted to check there was nothing more I could try before I take it.
The one last thing I realised I should mention after reading this thread ( http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=207155 ) is that around 6 weeks ago I tripped over some headphones attatched to my Mac and the very tip of the mini-jack has stayed inside the iMac. Never really bothered me as I use a USB sound card most of the time but could this potentially be what is causing the panics? If it has maybe become a bit dislodged and acting as if the headphones are being plugged and unplugged and therefore causing an issue such as that above?
If this is the case, can you think of anyway to remove it or should I just take it to KRCS and tell them about that at the risk that it will mean the repairs won't be covered under warranty?
Once more, thanks.
Yeah, it's definitely hardware-related and it could have something to do with the broken headphones but I'd take it in to KRCS to get it fixed. Trying to fix something like this could make it worse.
Just to update this thread in case anyone else comes across it.
I removed the bit of headphone using some Epoxy Resin on the the tip of a cocktail stick which fitted in niceiy and pulled cleanly out.
I then took it to KRCS who repaired it free under warranty. They couldn't diagnose the cause of the fault so replaced the Logic Board.
It's now working fine
Thanks one last time to all those who have helped in this thread.