iMac late 2013, 14,2 - has 500GB NVMe, want to install 2.5" form factor SSD in addition.

[sdean7855]

Questions:

• Are 2 SSDs, one NVMe, the other 2.5FF in the same 14,2 iMac supported and function?
• Is there any way to learn whether this iMac with NVMe is as originally built by Apple?
• If so, will it have any or all of the circuitry, pinout, cabling and mounting hardware to put in a 2.5" SSD
• If not, is at least the connection there on a board and are the cabling and mounting hdwe available from someone?

I have a .spx file, but it isn't attachable.

 

[Richy85]

If you bought the imac with original ssd or even if it was added later, the mother must also have the sata port, I have the doubt if it includes the cable or not

 

[rampancy]

The iMac 14,2 does indeed support the use of a blade SSD *and* a 2.5" SATA SSD installed together – it's part of how Apple implemented Fusion Drive back when it was an OEM option.

The default configuration for the 14,2 was with a 1 TB HDD in the 2.5" SATA drive bay, or with the 3 TB Fusion Drive; blade SSD-only configs were availale from Apple, but as BTO options only. You can try checking your Mac's system serial number at a site like Apple Serial Number Info to see if it was a BTO model.

If it was a BTO blade SSD-only option, then the issue is that (a) the system will definitely lack the specialized SATA combo cable and temperature sensor cable required for 2.5" drives to work. It may also lack the 2.5" bay mounting hardware too.

You can order the cables you'd need from places like OWC but if you need the mounting hardware, eBay would have to be your best choice.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

Questions:

• 
  1.
• Are 2 SSDs, one NVMe, the other 2.5FF in the same 14,2 iMac supported and function?
  2.
• Is there any way to learn whether this iMac with NVMe is as originally built by Apple?
  3.
• If so, will it have any or all of the circuitry, pinout, cabling and mounting hardware to put in a 2.5" SSD
  4.
• If not, is at least the connection there on a board and are the cabling and mounting hdwe available from someone?

I have a .spx file, but it isn't attachable.

1. Yes, they are supported and function.
2. Open "About this Mac" => "System Report" and go through the menu. Original nVME will have details with Apple name.
3. Circuitry + pinout = yes; cabling + mounting hardware= no
4. Cabling + mounting hardware can be salvaged from another dead iMac 2013 (base configuration with stock HDD)

OR you can just save yourself all of the headache and risk of breaking your iMac when opening it by using an external SSD. Losing 1 USB port is the trade-off.

 

[sdean7855]

The default configuration for the 14,2 was with a 1 TB HDD in the 2.5" SATA drive bay, or with the 3 TB Fusion Drive; blade SSD-only configs were availale from Apple, but as BTO options only. You can try checking your Mac's system serial number at a site like Apple Serial Number Info to see if it was a BTO model.

If it was a BTO blade SSD-only option, then the issue is that (a) the system will definitely lack the specialized SATA combo cable and temperature sensor cable required for 2.5" drives to work. It may also lack the 2.5" bay mounting hardware too.

1) I have the serial number of the NVMe (S1K5NYAG259123) but after 20 minutes of search for "Apple Serial Number Info" I cannot find such a website or resource. I can find how to determine the S# (of many things!), but not whether it was BTO. Would you be so kind as to pass me a URL?

2) I have found the HD power cable:

Apple 923-0312 Service Part: P/N Hard Drive Cable... at MacSales.com

Apple 923-0312 Service Part: P/N 923-0312 Hard Drive Cable for 27-inch iMac (Late 2012 - Late 2013). Repair or replace the Hard Drive Cable in your 27-inch iMac. *Used, OWC Tested*

eshop.macsales.com

Q: Is this the signal as well as power cable? The videos I've seen only show 1 connector attached to the SSD. Is there another cable?

...and the drive brackets on Ebay

3) But in the installation videos I've found it doesn't show, the connection of the SATA cables two connectors to the main logic board. Might you suggest a URL of pictures or videos that show where and how those connectors mate to the main logic board?
Thanks in advance!!!!

Here is the Storage stanza (from the .spx file) on the NVMe:
</string>

<key>bay_name</key>

<string>SSD</string>

<key>bsd_name</key>

<string>disk0</string>

<key>detachable_drive</key>

<string>no</string>

<key>device_model</key>

<string>APPLE SSD SM0512F </string>

<key>device_revision</key>

<string>UXM2JA1Q</string>

<key>device_serial</key>

<string>S1K5NYAG259123 </string>

<key>partition_map_type</key>

<string>guid_partition_map_type</string>

<key>removable_media</key>

<string>no</string>

<key>size</key>

<string>500.28 GB</string>

<key>size_in_bytes</key>

<integer>500277790720</integer>

<key>smart_status</key>

<string>Verified</string>

<key>spsata_medium_type</key>

<string>Solid State</string>

<key>spsata_ncq</key>

<string>Yes</string>

<key>spsata_ncq_depth</key>

<string>32</string>

<key>spsata_trim_support</key>

<string>Yes</string>

<key>volumes</key>

<array>

 

[Fishrrman]

Assuming you WILL NOT use this "second drive" for booting, why go through all kinds of trouble to install it inside?

Why not just get a USB3 SSD, plug it in, and let it be outside...?

This seems like A LOT of work for very little benefit.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

1) I have the serial number of the NVMe (S1K5NYAG259123) but after 20 minutes of search for "Apple Serial Number Info" I cannot find such a website or resource. I can find how to determine the S# (of many things!), but not whether it was BTO. Would you be so kind as to pass me a URL?

An Apple SSD should be something read as in the below picture.

 

[sdean7855]

It does, thank you!

 

[sdean7855]

I have come to the understanding that an NVMe, directly connected to the main logic board, has faster bandwidth than an SSD connected through the SATA intermediating circuitry, that an internal SATA SSD offers very little advantage over an SSD being connected externally through USB 3.0

 

[Juicy Box]

I have come to the understanding that an NVMe, directly connected to the main logic board, has faster bandwidth than an SSD connected through the SATA intermediating circuitry

Not correct.

The PCIe that the SSD in the Late 2013 iMacs use is about the same speed as the SATAIII, so no speed advantage.

Actually, there is probably more disadvantages to use NVMe in the Late 2013 iMacs than the using a SATA SSD on the SATA HDD connector.

You have to remove the whole logic board to get to the PCIe for the NVMe, versus just removing the display for the SATA connection, assuming there is a HDD already there to replace.

NVME adapters can sometimes fail or not be reliable for the NVMe.

The cost of the NVMe is higher than SATA SSDs, plus the cost of the adapter.

So those things, plus there isn't a speed advantage, not worth it on the Late 2013 iMac unless you wanted both drives installed for an internal RAID, extra internal storage, etc.

that an internal SATA SSD offers very little advantage over an SSD being connected externally through USB 3.0

This is also not correct.

The biggest reason (besides the obvious of being portable) to use a SSD externally via USB is not having to open your iMac. USB SSD is the easiest way to get reliable, semi-long-term storage for your iMac, for an economical price. USB3 SSDs can get about 65-80% the speeds of an internal SATAIII SSD, making them fast enough for many.

But, USB SSD do not have TRIM support, which can lead to problems long term, such as slow downs, and even premature drive failure. This could be years before it happens, but it can happen.

Between the speed and TRIM support, internal SATA SSD overs a huge advantage over USB3 SSD, but maybe not big enough for some to open their iMacs, which is why USB3 SSDs are often recommended as an easy alternative.

 

[rampancy]

1) I have the serial number of the NVMe (S1K5NYAG259123) but after 20 minutes of search for "Apple Serial Number Info" I cannot find such a website or resource. I can find how to determine the S# (of many things!), but not whether it was BTO. Would you be so kind as to pass me a URL?

You wouldn't need the serial number of the NVMe, but of your iMac itself. As an example, I've put in the results of using AppleSerialNumber.info on one of my own 2009 A1181 MacBooks (MacBook 5,2) - you can see where my Mac is marked as "CTO" due the custom amount of RAM and HDD it was originally configured with.

If your iMac shows up as a "CTO" machine, and originally came to you with just a blade SSD (assuming you got your machine second-hand) then there's a good chance that your iMac won't have the internal hardware necessary to mount and use a SATA drive. You'd have to get at least the necessary cabling, if not the bracket too.

2) I have found the HD power cable:

Apple 923-0312 Service Part: P/N Hard Drive Cable... at MacSales.com

Apple 923-0312 Service Part: P/N 923-0312 Hard Drive Cable for 27-inch iMac (Late 2012 - Late 2013). Repair or replace the Hard Drive Cable in your 27-inch iMac. *Used, OWC Tested*

eshop.macsales.com

Q: Is this the signal as well as power cable? The videos I've seen only show 1 connector attached to the SSD. Is there another cable?

If it's the same cable as the cable I found through iFixit/PowerBook Medic then yes, it is. It's a hybrid power/data cable. But you will also need to get the temperature sensor (that has its own cable) too.

3) But in the installation videos I've found it doesn't show, the connection of the SATA cables two connectors to the main logic board. Might you suggest a URL of pictures or videos that show where and how those connectors mate to the main logic board?
Thanks in advance!!!!

My first thought would be to check out the appropriate iFixit guide for your model of iMac. It's on Step 56...

 

[rampancy]

The biggest reason (besides the obvious of being portable) to use a SSD externally via USB is not having to open your iMac. USB SSD is the easiest way to get reliable, semi-long-term storage for your iMac, for an economical price. USB3 SSDs can get about 65-80% the speeds of an internal SATAIII SSD, making them fast enough for many.

But, USB SSD do not have TRIM support, which can lead to problems long term, such as slow downs, and even premature drive failure. This could be years before it happens, but it can happen.

Between the speed and TRIM support, internal SATA SSD overs a huge advantage over USB3 SSD, but maybe not big enough for some to open their iMacs, which is why USB3 SSDs are often recommended as an easy alternative.

This is the dilemma I faced with the hand-me-down iMac 14,1 that has become my new favourite DD machine. If I wanted to swap out the ailing 5,400 rpm HDD for an SSD, and/or install a blade SSD and upgrade the RAM, not only would I have to do a full tear down of the entire computer, down to the motherboard -- I'd have to contend with the display being glued to the body of the machine. I'm generally not one to back down from a hardware challenge, but components being glued together is my beyond my comfort zone.

I currently run my iMac off of an external 1 TB Samsung T7 Shield via USB 3, and while it wouldn't be as fast as an internal SSD upgrade, it's leagues faster than the internal hard drive. Plus I didn't have to contend with the pain of potentially cracking my display.

 

[OFLawyer]

Opening the 2013 iMac is pretty straight forward if you have any experience getting inside a computer. If you don't have experience don't try it. OWC sells a kit with everything needed.

Also, I think that you folks recommending an external USB drive are missing the fact that the USB buss is USB 2.0, much slower.

I have a 2013 iMac that had a 3 tb fusion drive and the mechanical drive failed.

I replaced the mechanical drive with a 4Tb ssd and could not be happier. I now have a 128 Gb blade and a a 4 Tb SSD. Even if you can't do it yourself you could look into a computer shop doing it for you, assuming a reasonable price.

 

[Juicy Box]

Also, I think that you folks recommending an external USB drive are missing the fact that the USB buss is USB 2.0, much slower.

The Late 2012 and up iMacs have USB3.

USB 2.0, much slower.

But even on USB2, the random reads and writes are higher with a SSD in USB2 than the internal SATA HDDs on the Mid 2011 iMacs and older. So depending on what you are doing with you Mac, the experience could be better with a SSD over USB2 than an internal HDD.

With the iMacs with USB2 and FW800, I have recommended to use a SSD over FW800, as the sequential reads and write are not too bad, but the random reads and writes are a lot better than the internal HDDs and USB2. This recommendation was for those that did not feel comfortable opening up their Macs and preferred an external solution. If the user did not mind opening up the iMac, I would say replacing the SATA HDD with a SATA SSD is the way to go, as it is the cheapest solution to get great performance on the older iMacs.

 

[OFLawyer]

The Late 2012 and up iMacs have USB3.


But even on USB2, the random reads and writes are higher with a SSD in USB2 than the internal SATA HDDs on the Mid 2011 iMacs and older. So depending on what you are doing with you Mac, the experience could be better with a SSD over USB2 than an internal HDD.

With the iMacs with USB2 and FW800, I have recommended to use a SSD over FW800, as the sequential reads and write are not too bad, but the random reads and writes are a lot better than the internal HDDs and USB2. This recommendation was for those that did not feel comfortable opening up their Macs and preferred an external solution. If the user did not mind opening up the iMac, I would say replacing the SATA HDD with a SATA SSD is the way to go, as it is the cheapest solution to get great performance on the older iMacs.

I stand corrected on USB. I did not look far enough down in sys info.

 

[Nguyen Duc Hieu]

I have come to the understanding that an NVMe, directly connected to the main logic board, has faster bandwidth than an SSD connected through the SATA intermediating circuitry, that an internal SATA SSD offers very little advantage over an SSD being connected externally through USB 3.0

There is always a gap between understanding and reality with your iMac.
You can run a common SSD speedtest application in your iMac and post the result here (screenshot is the best).

 

[adb1973]

Questions:

• Are 2 SSDs, one NVMe, the other 2.5FF in the same 14,2 iMac supported and function?
• Is there any way to learn whether this iMac with NVMe is as originally built by Apple?
• If so, will it have any or all of the circuitry, pinout, cabling and mounting hardware to put in a 2.5" SSD
• If not, is at least the connection there on a board and are the cabling and mounting hdwe available from someone?

I have a .spx file, but it isn't attachable.

So did you open it?

As for the write speeds (I did upgrade a 2012 fusion version of the 27" with a SATA SSD)

The internal APPLE 128GB BLADE SSD (400-something MB/s) was actually slower than the newer Samsung 2TB drive about 540MB/s
USB3 is workable but really MUCH slower since the max theoratical output if 5Gbit and there's a steering bit/overhead necessary making the real speed not (seldomly?) higher than 250 MB/s in real life apart from the TRIM issues.

I have the same question for a 21.5 inch 2013 imac BTO with 256 FLASH

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

Don't know if you're still following this thread, but my opinion only.

It's NOT WORTH prying open an iMac (that already has a fast SSD inside) to add another SSD.
Too much risk of breaking something inside. And there's only one nvme-style connection inside (which is actually a proprietary connector).

Just get an EXTERNAL USB3 SSD and plug it into the back.
Fast, cheap, easy.

I'd suggest a Samsung t7 "Shield".
It's actually a USB3.1 gen2 drive, but will work with USB3 as well.

 

[adb1973]

It's not that much of a hassle when you work careful. But one should be aware of the advantages over the ' super easy' USB3 solution.
- speed advantage sata vs usb3
- trim possible
- safer fusion and/or Raid possibilities

But yes usb its easier

 

[rampancy]

I and some other people I've run across on the MR forums run their mid-Intel era iMacs off of external USB 3 SSDs, and have found them to be perfect ways of getting around the slow/dying internal drive.

Maybe a couple of years ago I would have had the time and gumption to crack it open and muck around with the insides, but these days I honestly don't have the energy for it.