iMac or Mac Pro for gaming

[Spanky Deluxe]

The resale value of Macs is certainly impressive and is the biggest thing that Windows users forget about when bashing Macs for being expensive. Even a liquid damaged three year old MacBook can fetch a pretty premium on eBay as a spares/repair unit.

If you don't need the newest graphics every year then buying a new iMac ever two or three is a great option. $2199 buys you an iMac that outperforms the equivalent Mac Pro with 27" screen at $3498. If you buy a new iMac in three years and resell your then old iMac, you will likely spend the same overall as a MP and 27" screen now but end up with a more powerful unit now and a much more powerful unit in three years time.

 

[REM314]

I want to thank all of you for your input regarding my dilemma. All great suggestions. Well the reason I didn't want to build a separate windows pc for gaming is that I don't do hardcore gaming enough to justify buying/building a windows pc, I play a few specific games like WoW, Crysis, BFBC2. Plus another thing that attracted me to the world of Apple was how Apple computers have much better resale value than Windows PC do.

About 6 years ago I made the biggest financial mistake by ordering a custom built gaming pc and within 6 months it wasn't even half it's original price. Here I see people selling their 6 year old Mac Pros for over a grand. No 6 year old Windows PC would ever go for something that high.

So after reading through many posts in the MP section as well as the iMac section I'm thinking I will save a lot by going the iMac route since I won't have to buy a monitor as I will need to with the MP. I really do need a nice monitor since I'm still using my 20" Dell 2001FP.

Regarding playing on the console, I just hate playing FPS on my PS3, I'm just too used to the KB/Mouse combo.

So the bottom line seems that the MP is going to be a huge investment and even though I would sorely miss the upgradability, going the iMac route will be a better investment for a casual gamer like me and yes I will use bootcamp whenever I want to game on the Mac. Still have a free vista ultimate CD laying around.

How much was that Mac Pro that went for 1k originally? Im surprised that someone would even consider buying a 6 year old computer for 1k. You could get a much better and new computer much more cost-effectively. You are technically spending $600+ of the iMacs price on the monitor which is why you get subpar components.

 

[Hellhammer]

The resale value of Macs is certainly impressive and is the biggest thing that Windows users forget about when bashing Macs for being expensive. Even a liquid damaged three year old MacBook can fetch a pretty premium on eBay as a spares/repair unit.

But the thing that you have to upgrade the WHOLE machine is what most people don't like. In PC, you can just grab a new GPU and throw it in, will make it sufficient for another year. Then upgrade mobo and CPU when you need and have money. That you can't do in iMac and you're always limited to Apple's offerings. The resale value makes it little easier though as you don't have to put more than few hundreds towards new one.

Both have their pros and cons. I have an iMac and haven't regretted it even though the new ones are a lot faster. I don't game though but if I did, I would just build a rig and use it

 

[JonR356]

My thoughts:

Mac user & casual gamer - iMac
Hardcore gamer who likes OsX - iMac + Gaming PC (or hackintosh)
Hardcore mac user who plays games sometimes = Mac Pro

 

[Cocoia]

My thoughts:

Mac user & casual gamer - iMac
Hardcore gamer who likes OsX - iMac + Gaming PC (or hackintosh)
Hardcore mac user who plays games sometimes = Mac Pro

This seems about right. I do heavy Photoshop work and Cinema 4D rendering, so I could use the 8 cores of my 2008 Mac Pro. But I've recently tossed in a HD5970 to also play games and it works gloriously.

For very serious gaming I'd also get a separate rig, though. Much cheaper to put together, upgrade and maintain.

 

[therealseebs]

FWIW, I play games on a Mac. I was playing WoW until the Real ID thing, and now I'm playing City of Heroes.

It sucks that Apple won't sell a real high-end laptop, but in the desktop line, I think their hardware is decent. And honestly, I don't see the point to boot camp. I don't want a Windows machine. If I were gonna play games on Windows, I'd get hardware that cost half as much. I want a Mac, so I don't have to worry about the endless treadmill of ultra-crucial security updates, anti-virus software, anti-malware software, and so on. So I just accept that I can only play some games.

In my situation (I have an existing display), the only real options are the Mini and the Pro, and obviously the Mini's not great for most gaming. So I'm probably in the market for a Mac Pro, although I don't have any idea when I'd be able to actually justify the expense. (The plan is to get it running Server, and have it also replace a Mini running server and an old rackmount box running BSD, so at least it'll be useful.)

 

[davelanger]

Since the pro can cost about $3000, would the best option be get an imac for osx for $1500 then a nice alienware gaming rig for 1500 as well.

Its the same price but the best of both worlds

 

[Icaras]

Mac pro all the way.
I've done both gaming on an imac and on a mac pro.

That top en 5750 in the imac will seem very slow within 2 years. Especially when you need to drive that massive resolution. Get a good quad core with a 5870 and it will be a lot faster then the imac, roughly double the framerates i expect. And then in 2-3 years you run into trouble just upgrade to a better graphics card.

I also had thermal problems with the imac. Back in the day i gamed days on end and after a couple of hours i used to get graphics glitches. Only way to resolve it was to use fan control to the loudest setting and then they went away. An imac chassis is just not made for 24x7x365 load and it showed.
Maybe these issues have gone away now but it prompted me to save up for a mac pro. Never regretted buying it.

It's funny how many react get a windows box for gaming. And while that makes sense if you want to just game. If you want to work on a mac and want to game in the evenings. imac + windows gaming rig (similar in power to a mac pro) costs roughly the same as a mac pro setup.

The one box solution just seems more elegant to me.

Agreed all the way. This is exactly the route I'm taking with my new hex-core, which will double as both my DAW for Logic and my PC gaming rig. One box is very elegant.

And although I consider myself a hardcore gamer (nearly 100 steam games), I don't normally obsess over benchmarks or FPS. And I'll probably get railed on this by some PC gamers here, but part of that elegant solution of having one Mac box is minimal cable clutter, one pair of keyboard and mouse, and even simply saving on your electricity bill; all things which I do consider.

Yes the one box solution is more elegant but it's inferior in many ways. An iMac and a PC gaming system with a 5970 has far more power. The iMac's more powerful than the quad Mac Pro by itself. The PC has equivalent power and has far superior gaming performance. In some ways this solution is even more elegant since you can leave the iMac to complete tasks such as rendering, encoding etc while using the screen to game. The more cost effective solution would be to build a gaming computer, install OSX on it and buy a 27" Apple Screen.

This solution seems quite elegant as well. I hadn't thought about using the 27" iMac as a screen for a separate PC gaming rig. I was under the impression the 27" iMac only accepted certain incoming video signals?

Anyway, great idea for the more hardcore gamer wanting the best gaming performance

 

[nasabaer]

Pah.. recommending an iMac over a Mac Pro for gaming ? you are kidding ?
besides the money aspect... the imac has a lot of problems.

- yellow tint on screen
- dust behind the front glas (very often i had this phenomen as i worked at an asp)
- often failing hard drives (too hot ?)
- system shutdown/freeze while playing games (maybe because of overheating ?)


in no way i would purchase an imac as a gamer.
if there is no money left for purchasing a mac pro i would prefer a mini with an 7200rpm hard drive and 4GB of ram for the daily work (use a kvm switch) and a windows pc for gaming.

 

[TheLOGICalone]

I jus bought the 3.33 ghz 6 core. Windows 7 will be on a ssd thru bootcamp, I will have 12 gb of trip channel 1333 ram, turbo boosted CPU of 3.6ghz, 5870 for now until we get a evga gtx 485 or ati southern islands, may take awhile but because I justify cost of mac pro for work, it's a helluva gaming rig that is just as good as any pc except for overclocking, and sli/crossfire.

 

[davelanger]

I've got a GTX 285 in my 2008 Mac Pro
I use WinXP under Boot Camp for gaming.
I have no need for another computer, the GTX 285 is great for gaming under Boot Camp.

The new Mac Pros will have the HD 5870.
That puppy is going to be wonderful to play games with under Boot Camp.

How would it be playing games like wow under osx?

 

[studiox]

Have to give my two cents. I have been a gamer since the last 15-whatever years and Im currently running a Game-Server business where we rent out Counter-Strike, Battlefield, MoA etc. servers to pro gamers. We have exclusive deals with both EA and Activision - Yes Im a gamer.

At home i prefer one computer. That is not, i guess so uncommon to most people

But when it comes to decision making there are pro/cons about it all:

** Getting a PC (Dell Alienware or a custom built watercooling box) will ensure you can get the latest graphics and processors whenever you want it. It's a constant upgrade cycle -> New Graphics -> New Processor -> New Motherboard -> More memory -> Faster drives (etc)

** But you can't run OSX. You can go the hackintosh route but there are no way you can be sure your new graphics card will work in OSX and you need to hack that to...

** Buying a Mac Pro does not mean you can upgrade the graphics. I have been there with the 1.1 pro that can't upgrade to anything nowdays. The EFI route does also mean trouble if you need to keep upgrading the gfx.

** IF you want to be on the (sort of) safe side you should get a 5870 or two 5770 - The more high-end you get from the beginning the more safe you will be to get high FPS on windows games.

** All this comes at a price. If I couldn't get my mac pro on my own company i would never been able to afford it (or convince me I can afford it )

** $5.500 for a desktop/workstation is a lot!! EOD

** If I would go to my local PC dealer and hand over $5.000 and ask them to build a kick ass desktop I would get something really nice (watercooling, 3xSLI, 2xSSD, 16G ram, nice motherboard, etc.etc.) But I wouldn't be able to run OSX.. The OS i love..

If apple could just create an affordable "Mac Pro mini" based on Intel i-7 in the range of about $2.500 I believe ATI and Nvidia would invest some time creating EFI cards themselves (without apple) and we would be able to get an affordable kick-ass computer that everyone wants

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

If apple could just create an affordable "Mac Pro mini" based on Intel i-7 in the range of about $2.500 I believe ATI and Nvidia would invest some time creating EFI cards themselves (without apple) and we would be able to get an affordable kick-ass computer that everyone wants

Never going to happen. The number of people that actually 'need' such a system are severely limited and Apple does not want people upgrading their computers - they want them to buy new ones instead. This is even true in the Mac Pros - Apple doesn't want people upgrading them really, hence why they don't release firmware updates for the socket compatible 2009 Mac Pros that would allow them to upgrade to hexacore CPUs and why they say that the 5870 is only compatible with 2009/10 Mac Pros. The 'expandability' of Mac Pros means (in Apple's opinion) PCIe expansion cards for specific tasks e.g. RAID cards, audio cards etc - stuff that is needed for current work but not for future expansion.

 

[Ryan P]

To be honest if you compare a Mac Pro to a system like the Mach V from Falcon, the Mac Pro looks both inexpensive and a little low end. http://www.falcon-nw.com/configure-falcon . But in all seriousness the price points are pretty similar for a similar spec.

I don't think the Mac Pro for gaming is a particularly bad value once you exclude the "build it yourself" camp. Been there, done that, can be worth it, can also be a huge headache if you end up with a bad part or parts that are not happy with each other. Yes if gaming is your only concern, just get a Windows box, but if you also want OS X then there isn't a real reason you can't get a Mac Pro for work/play.

 

[CaoCao]

If you are considering a computer that can slaughter the best Alienware and be the same price go with Maingear's
SHIFT X58
2xAres Dual 5870 8GB Total GDDR5 (one scores 28.4K at 3DMark Vantage )
i7-980X
six hard drive bays
1.5KW PSU
...

 

[f1restarter]

Yeah Maingear is definitely a great choice if you want to go for a boutique gaming pc. Personally I can't stand Alienwaste as it looks like something out of a toys r us store, more lights than a 70's disco!

 

[davelanger]

Yeah Maingear is definitely a great choice if you want to go for a boutique gaming pc. Personally I can't stand Alienwaste as it looks like something out of a toys r us store, more lights than a 70's disco!

The thing that really turned me off for alienware it seems most if not all of their cases seem to be plastic. For the price they are asking you think it will be alliminium. Not to mention it seems like they put the machine together half @$$ed since the insides always look like a mess with wires hanging every where. Plus it seems like they tend to use generic parts which again is a ripoff for the price they are asking. At least with apple you are paying for quality.

 

[nanofrog]

The thing that really turned me off for alienware it seems most if not all of their cases seem to be plastic. For the price they are asking you think it will be alliminium. Not to mention it seems like they put the machine together half @$$ed since the insides always look like a mess with wires hanging every where. Plus it seems like they tend to use generic parts which again is a ripoff for the price they are asking. At least with apple you are paying for quality.

They all use off-the-shelf components though. Some do a better job with things like cooling and cable management. Please note, that we're not dealing with budget boxes here (unlike when members compare typical consumer desktops to the MP, though we're not dealing with 100% parity; i.e. Core i7 + non-ECC memory v. SP Xeons & ECC memory).

In terms of cable management, Apple does do a nice job (uses custom cable assemblies and hide them behind other areas as much as possible, as well as traces on the logic board), but there's usually a sacrifice if you want to upgrade any of the internals with 3rd party components (i.e. need special adapters to use the internal HDD bays with RAID cards, power issues for a second graphics card for some units, such as running 2x HD5870's, ...). Cooling is adequate, but not actually anything unique or special IMO.

 

[Topper]

How would it be playing games like wow under osx?

I assume you are talking about the HD 5870.
Considering that ATI has better drivers for OS X than they do for Windows and that the HD 5870 is a very powerful card, I'd say the HD 5870 will be an excellent choice for playing WOW under OS X.

Barefeats will probably have some benchmarks shortly.

 

[davelanger]

I assume you are talking about the HD 5870.
Considering that ATI has better drivers for OS X than they do for Windows and that the HD 5870 is a very powerful card, I'd say the HD 5870 will be an excellent choice for playing WOW under OS X.

Barefeats will probably have some benchmarks shortly.

Yes the 5870. I am looking to buy the quadcore and upgrade the card to the 5780 and upgrade the ram to 6GB.

 

[nutritious]

If you wanna buy a computer for gaming, don't buy a mac.

 

[davelanger]

If you wanna buy a computer for gaming, don't buy a mac.

I game mostly on console but do like to play wow, and would get diablo. But I don't play games like COD or Crysis.

I want a mac because I like OSX, and I have looked at a lot of gaming PCs, and unless I really build one myself (which I have no clue) it seems like a lot of sites like ibuypower or alienware a ripoff.

I really want to stay with osx and play wow and diablo.
sure I could get a gaming rigg and imac but that is too much clutter.
I just want one machine

 

[nanofrog]

If you wanna buy a computer for gaming, don't buy a mac.

If the system is used purely for gaming, I'd agree.

But most asking about this tend to want to be able to use a single system for both work under OS X, and games under Windows from what I've gathered when these posts come up. In such instances, one MP or iMac is cheaper than two separate systems (true computers, not computer + gaming console/s type of situation).

 

[davelanger]

If the system is used purely for gaming, I'd agree.

But most asking about this tend to want to be able to use a single system for both work under OS X, and games under Windows from what I've gathered when these posts come up. In such instances, one MP or iMac is cheaper than two separate systems (true computers, not computer + gaming console/s type of situation).

Does WOW still have problems under osx for the quad core?

 

[nanofrog]

Does WOW still have problems under osx for the quad core?

I don't game, but last I saw, Yes. But I'm not sure if the recent Graphics Update has addressed this or not (improved Steam's performance IIRC).