iMac pro - Extra memory or extra cores?

[EJ_DK]

The highest I can afford to pay for my new Mac Pro is $7000.

Which of the following configurations would give will give me the best value for money:

1. 3.2GHZ 8-core Intel Xeon W processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.2GHz with 64GB 2666MHZ DDR4 ECC memory
   
   
2. 3.0GHz 10-core Intel Xeon W processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GH2 with 32GB 2666MHZ DDR4 ECC memory
   

I am not the typical target group for this kind of work station, as I only occasionally edits pictures and videos. In fact, I am not the typical Mac-user, for most of the time I use Windows with office programs and large databases with scientific data and statistical analysis. I also often use the internet with several pages open at the same time, and I usually also have more programs (Word, Excel, browser, statistical software, bibliography manager etc.) running at the same time. When I get my new iMac I also want to explore in Virual Reality using Oculus.

Until recently I had an 27" iMac, 3,4GHz I7, 16gb ram, 3TB FusionDrive, GTX 675 1gb DDR5 bought in 2013.

Why I want an iMac: Design – certainly not for the prize!

 

[Flint Ironstag]

Best value for money? Take a regular iMac to an auto customization shop and have it vinyl wrapped in space gray for $100. Get an eGPU with Nvidia card for serious work or play. Buy an overpriced matching keyboard and mouse on ebay.

As for VR, if you're trying to do it on MacOS sooner than later, look at a Vive instead.

 

[kohlson]

I think some of this will depend on what you determine to be your "benefit" in the equation "Value = Benefits - Cost" equation. But more transactionally, in your current iMac, do you run out of threads first, or cores first?

 

[Kris Kelvin]

Get the 10-core CPU. It provides a measurable speed boost. Requiring more than 32GB RAM is rare, and installing more RAM later is easier than swapping the CPU.

Not sure how well Windows is supported on the iMac Pro at this point.

For a good VR experience, a regular PC with a GTX 1080 Ti might be better suited – but certainly not as stylish.

 

[EJ_DK]

I think some of this will depend on what you determine to be your "benefit" in the equation "Value = Benefits - Cost" equation. But more transactionally, in your current iMac, do you run out of threads first, or cores first?

'Benefits' are the smooth and fast running of the programs and the use I described above.

Unfortunately, I do not have enough technical insight to answer your questions about threads first, or cores first. I do not know how to find out. I never saw any (error)messages concerning threads or cores.



[doublepost=1514234308][/doublepost]

Get the 10-core CPU. It provides a measurable speed boost. Requiring more than 32GB RAM is rare, and installing more RAM later is easier than swapping the CPU.

Not sure how well Windows is supported on the iMac Pro at this point.

For a good VR experience, a regular PC with a GTX 1080 Ti might be better suited – but certainly not as stylish.

Thank you for your advice. But I remember I've read somewhere (I don't remember where) that ram are more important than cores if you are having many programs or Web sites running at the same time? - In addition, the singlecore speed for the 8-core model is 3.2 GHz, while the 10-core model is running at 3.0 GHz. And I wonder if the programs I use mainly use the singlecore?
[doublepost=1514234812][/doublepost]

Best value for money? Take a regular iMac to an auto customization shop and have it vinyl wrapped in space gray for $100. Get an eGPU with Nvidia card for serious work or play. Buy an overpriced matching keyboard and mouse on ebay.

As for VR, if you're trying to do it on MacOS sooner than later, look at a Vive instead.

Creative proposal – at least cheaper!
However, $100 for vinyl wrap also seems to be rather expensive

 

[AndreeOnline]

I remember I've read somewhere (I don't remember where) that ram are more important than cores if you are having many programs or Web sites running at the same time?

Don't you have a Mac available now? Start 'activity monitor' and open the apps and windows you feel you need.

Give us a screenshot of this window:

 

[EJ_DK]

No, my old iMac does not work at the pressent time.

 

[pl1984]

Unless you really, really, really want the space gray color my recommendation is to save a lot of money and buy the non-pro iMac.

If you really want the iMac Pro then my suggestion is the 10 core for the following reasons:

• While its base clock is 200MHz slower than the eight core its maximum turbo clock speed is 300MHz faster than the eight core (assuming your numbers are correct). This means single and low threaded applications will run faster on the ten core.
• As already mentioned RAM can be upgraded post sale.

It would be really helpful if you could list the programs (and versions) you use.

 

[kohlson]

My apologies if I came off as less-than-helpful. First, know that the cores v. RAM question is the source of endless discussion - and not just on MR. Tools like Activity Monitor, and benchmarking utilities, provide insight and guidance to users. But several factors complicate things. How the app is created (single threaded? maximize all available cores?). Does the app want lots of RAM (like Photoshop and some databases). What other apps have to run simultaneously? Are you running Windows as a VM?
FWIW I have a 2013 15-MBP and usually have 12-15 apps running simultaneously. These include FCPX, Photoshop, Word, PPT, Safari and sometimes Firefox. I try to keep Safari to one window, and 10-12 tabs. It's not unusual to have Audition open, too. PPT can have as many as 10 documents open. 16GB RAM, and 4 cores. If I have to open Windows 7 under Fusion, I usually take a quick look to see if I can close anything first. Memory management has improved greatly in Mac OS X - certainly in the last 5 years.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I’d get the 10-core or the 8-core with 32GB of RAM and upgrade the RAM later if I needed to.

Also, I don’t think Bootcamp supports the iMac Pro yet so it may be difficult to get Windows running natively. I also don’t know how Windows would identify the GPU and if it would need gaming (RX) or pro drivers.

 

[EJ_DK]

To pl1984:

Yes, but is the “default” processor speed not the most important with the programs I am using, I wonder how often I will benefit from the Turbo Boost?

I use Windows 10 Fall Creators Update. My programs are Microsoft office (Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint) in the latest and updated version (2016). Beside that I use Stata and Endnote – also in the latest versions. For browsing I primarily use Firefox but sometimes Chrome. In my browser and in Excel I often have more Tabs open. Essentially Stata and Endnote are databases - Stata with a statistical superstructure that can perform heavy mathematical calculations. So, my main demand is running more programs simultaneously.



To kohlson:

Yes, I now understand is was not an easy question . Taking into consideration the programs I am using the question may be specified to whether processor speed or memory is most important when you have a lot of programs running simultaneously?



To MisterAndrew:

According to Apple BootCamp is supported on iMacs from 2012. But just in case I will ask Apple. I have had no problems in running Windows on my old iMac.

 

[pl1984]

To pl1984:

Yes, but is the “default” processor speed not the most important with the programs I am using, I wonder how often I will benefit from the Turbo Boost?

I use Windows 10 Fall Creators Update. My programs are Microsoft office (Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint) in the latest and updated version (2016). Beside that I use Stata and Endnote – also in the latest versions. For browsing I primarily use Firefox but sometimes Chrome. In my browser and in Excel I often have more Tabs open. Essentially Stata and Endnote are databases - Stata with a statistical superstructure that can perform heavy mathematical calculations. So, my main demand is running more programs simultaneously.

No one can say for certain how much you will benefit from Turbo Boost but it is designed for exactly this type of situation. Geekbench results show the 10 core outperforming the 8 core configuration when it comes to single threaded tasks. This is to be expected given the higher Turbo Boost frequency available in the 10 core processor. I would say, based on your workload, you'll be benefitting from it enough to at least make it a wash between the two configurations.

Given your workload either will be more than sufficient for your needs. Which brings me back to my recommendation that you seriously consider the non-pro iMac. You can buy a top of the line model which will be just as capable for your workload and save a lot of money. From a work point of view the iMac Pro doesn't make sense for you.

 

[kohlson]

I agree with the suggestion to have a bias toward cores. You need enough memory such that every that needs to be is resident, along with some working room. This can be very hard to determine, and most people err on the "too much" side because swap is such a large performance penalty. Fortunately, you can always add more memory.

I cannot emphasize enough how complex multicore systems and multithreaded architectures are, especially in characterizing performance and resources. I've spoken with a few chip architects in my work, and they say that the hardest thing to do is keep a core busy all the time. Easy to do for relatively straightforward job, like video encoding. Way harder to do for other jobs. Apple seems to recognize this with a new set of "support" subsystems in this model. But the apps (and their workloads) may need to be designed accordingly.

I agree with those above who've mentioned that a non-pro model may work for you. $7K is a lot for a computer these days, and most who want to spend that much have a pretty good idea of what they need. Not saying you shouldn't get it. If I had $7K in my computer budget, I probably get one.

 

[AidenShaw]

Fortunately, you can always add more memory.

This is an Imac Pro - not user upgradeable.

 

[joema2]

Don't you have a Mac available now? Start 'activity monitor' and open the apps and windows you feel you need....

Exactly right. There is no need to speculate whether he might need more memory or more CPU cores or whether an 8 or 10-core iMac Pro might help vs a top-spec 4-core 2017 iMac. Simply running Activity Monitor will answer most of that. If his current app workload does not max out his current cores, then adding more or faster cores will probably not help much. Likewise if Memory Pressure is green when running his app workload on his current machine, more RAM probably won't help.

He could be waiting on I/O, but that's harder to measure since (unlike Windows) Activity Monitor does not display disk queue depth. However this can be done using the command line dtrace utility iopending.

Note the Dtrace utilities cannot be used starting with El Capitan unless System Integrity Protection is first disabled: http://apple.stackexchange.com/ques...otless-is-there-any-way-to-get-dtrace-working

It still works with Sierra; I haven't tested High Sierra yet.

 

[Zwhaler]

+1 for 10 core. OP doesn't even need an iMac Pro but you won't be disappointed.

 

[flowrider]

Fortunately, you can always add more memory.

That's just it! You can't!!!! Apple has made the iMac Pro a closed system. What you buy is what you get - Through out it's LIFETIME.

I Hope Apple DOES NOT make this a trend it it's PRO systems.

Lou

 

[joema2]

That's just it! You can't!!!! Apple has made the iMac Pro a closed system. What you buy is what you get - Through out it's LIFETIME...

Supposedly the iMac Pro RAM can be upgraded by either Apple or an authorized service provider: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/14/imac-pro-ram-upgrade-apple/

 

[AidenShaw]

Supposedly the iMac Pro RAM can be upgraded by either Apple or an authorized service provider: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/14/imac-pro-ram-upgrade-apple/

Cha-Ching !$!@$!$

 

[fuchsdh]

To the OP—for your workload, I would get the RAM. Long-term that's more likely to be useful for your system versus the extra cores, unless Facebook starts maxing your processors.

But I echo others that you're better off maxing a standard iMac if you want to burn money. A maxed out 5K iMac comes with 64GB of RAM and a 2TB SSD and is 'just' $5300. You are basically spending thousands for a color and features you won't use. Hell if you want another color you could get it painted aftermarket and still come out cheaper.

 

[orph]

hi OP sounds like your in a funded environment ?
is the imac paid for by your work or you?

if it's from work get what they will give you, you dont need more than 4 cores and 32GB of ram for the apps you listed
"My programs are Microsoft office (Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint) in the latest and updated version (2016). Beside that I use Stata and Endnote"
but if your work is paying for it milk them dry (if you dont care about budget) but make shore you get apple care or some cover in case of breakdown in 2/3 years time.

if your paying out of your own money then pick up any basic imac and get more than 16GB of RAM (but i dont think you need more than 32GB) for the apps you listed i cant see you having any problems & as a new imac will have a SSD and not a fusion drive it will "feel/be" a lot faster and id gess the HD in your old imac was the part giving you speed problems.

the macpro is for people doing video editing or 3D work it is not for the apps you use they wont use or need the speed of a imacpro.

if your in big data you want a simple computer with a display and a unix server to do the compute for large database work. (iv been exposed to some big data environments everyone just remotes in to the server's to work no power on the user computer needed)

edit -
do relay think about apple care or 3rd party cover as the new imacpro is a new model so it may have bugs or failures so cover can save a lot of problems/repair costs also get a external backup for it to under the same budget if it is funded

 

[EJ_DK]

Thank you for the useful advises.

I tried something like 'activity monitor' on my Windows-PC (Microsoft Surface 5, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD). Only up to 88% og RAM was used in the brief testing I did. Most of the time only 60%. The CPU was only briefly strained by about 80%. Most of the time under 10%. So those of you that claimed, that a non pro iMac would be sufficient, surely are right. Yes orph, I have to pay myself. So I will consider the 27‑inch iMac with Retina 5K display, 4.2GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i7 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz, 32GB 2400MHz DDR4, 1TB SSD, Radeon Pro 580 with 8GB video memory, Magic Mouse 2, Magic Keyboard which costs $3,699.00 while the cheapest iMac Pro’s list price is $4,999.00. Besides both models costs about $1000 more in my country due to the conjoint result of Apple and local consumer taxes.

BTW: BootCamp with Windows 10 is supported on iMac Pro [https://support.apple.com/da-dk/HT208330 ]

EJ

 

[orph]

well as long as you get the SSD and 32GB of ram you will have a computer that is super super fast for the things listed, i assumed you may have been doing "big data" but now im not shore.
relay the Retina 5K-skærm 3,4 GHz processor 1 TB lagringsplads with 1TB ssd and 32GB ram is 27.179,00 kr is all i think you need from the apps listed if you want to save some money.

i do recommend apple care tho, if there's a failure on an imac it can cost a lot.

ps at first i assumed you where working on "big data" or something but now i suspect your a light home user ?

 

[h9826790]

To pl1984:

Yes, but is the “default” processor speed not the most important with the programs I am using, I wonder how often I will benefit from the Turbo Boost?

I use Windows 10 Fall Creators Update. My programs are Microsoft office (Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint) in the latest and updated version (2016). Beside that I use Stata and Endnote – also in the latest versions. For browsing I primarily use Firefox but sometimes Chrome. In my browser and in Excel I often have more Tabs open. Essentially Stata and Endnote are databases - Stata with a statistical superstructure that can perform heavy mathematical calculations. So, my main demand is running more programs simultaneously.



To kohlson:

Yes, I now understand is was not an easy question . Taking into consideration the programs I am using the question may be specified to whether processor speed or memory is most important when you have a lot of programs running simultaneously?



To MisterAndrew:

According to Apple BootCamp is supported on iMacs from 2012. But just in case I will ask Apple. I have had no problems in running Windows on my old iMac.

My understanding is that the base clock nowadays is quite meaningless.

If the computer has proper cooling. You should always benefit from the turbo speed. On the other hand, if the computer has very poor cooling, the CPU may not even able to stay at the base clock speed (thermal throttling).

 

[barmann]

Maybe the iMac forum would be more appropriate .