iMac Pro is a good value

[MisterAndrew]

I found a custom workstation that can be configured similar to an iMac Pro here.

Here is a comparison I made:

Xeon 8-Core W-2145 CPU: $1315
CPU cooler: $115
Gigabyte C422 motherboard: $629
32GB of Samsung DDR-2666 ECC RAM: $388
AMD Radeon Pro WX 9100 (Vega 64 16GB) GPU: $1700
1TB Samsung 960 Pro m.2 SSD: $668
850W PSU: $165
ATX case: $110
LG UltraFine 5K Display from Apple Store: $1,299.95
Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad from Apple Store: $129
Magic Mouse 2 from Apple Store: $79
Total = $6,597.95 plus a little extra for power & video cables etc. (That's just the price of the hardware for a DIY build.)

Base iMac Pro with Pro Vega 64 16GB: $5,599

 

[keysofanxiety]

But... but... I can upgrade the components in the workstation! Even if it does run Windows and most Pros don't get a stiffy from upgrading stuff - they just use their machines for their intended purpose.

 

[maflynn]

A couple of points I'd like to raise.
First, I'd probably not buy all my components from one place, I'd shop around a bit. I'd also point out that if you don't need a 5k display then the price goes down incredibly.

Another point, is the fact that you can easily remove/replace/upgrade the components. Don't undersell the desire to upgrade. One of the chief complaints that's been occurring since day one on the Mac Pro is the lack of upgradeability. Apple finally recognized this and promised a modular machine that workstation users can upgrade. I'd rather have a $6,000 dollar computer system that can easily replace a failed SSD after the first year then have $6,000 iMac Pro that is sealed and I cannot replace the drive.

Finally, I'd add that many professionals that need workstations for business or making money are all that jazzed up about building and supporting their own rigs. They'll be more likely to buy a complete solution so that they can focus their time and energy on doing their job and not building a computer. To that end, I think its an apples to oranges comparison.

The iMac pro is a beautiful machine, and it appeals to a certain market sector, but one of the over-riding concerns with the Mac Pro is the lack of expandability. Apple is offering an alternative to the Mac Pro that is even less expandable. I think if anyone needs workstation type power then their best bet is to get a workstation not an all in one machine.

 

[theluggage]

Base iMac Pro with Pro Vega 64 16GB: $5,599

Apple's workstations have usually been fairly priced, if you compare like-for-like.

The real issue is that Xeon, ECC Memory and compute-optimised GPUs carry a huge price premium, on whatever platform, and while (for example) video pros can justify the extra stability and multi-core performance on long render jobs, for power users, enthusiasts and jack-of-all trades would often get far better bangs-per-buck for their uses with a high-end i7 and "prosumer" GPU.

Also, as someone else has pointed out, that 5k display in the iMac isn't worth $1300 to someone who already has a pair of decent displays or prefers a 32" 4k.

Ditto with the forthcoming "modular Mac Pro" - just because you prefer a headless/internally expandable system doesn't automatically mean that you need a 10 core Xeon and ECC RAM.

Even with the MBPs - want a 15" display but don't need a quad i7 and hefty GPU? Need more than 2 USB-C for something not-CPU intensive? Sorry. Want a poweful "portable work station" with a big CPU and a couple of TB of internal storage - that travels in your car between home and work so you don't give a fig about weight or battery life? Nope. But all available if you can stomach Windows. New Apple machines are tending to be more expensive but optimised for a narrower audience.

 

[mac.rumors]

I'd rather have a $6,000 dollar computer system that can easily replace a failed SSD after the first year then have $6,000 iMac Pro that is sealed and I cannot replace the drive.

Not sure I quite get this logic in favor of the build / against the iMac Pro. For an extra $169 for AppleCare+, you can have failed components replaced by Apple for three years.

In my case, the decision to go for iMac Pro was based on the quality of the components / machine, 5k display and hassle free support for at least three years

 

[maflynn]

Not sure I quite get this logic in favor of the build / against the iMac Pro. For an extra $169 for AppleCare+, you can have failed components replaced by Apple for three years.

In my case, the decision to go for iMac Pro was based on the quality of the components / machine, 5k display and hassle free support for at least three years

I'm not knocking the iMac, but I guess I was just trying to point out that its an apples to oranges comparison and that you can find better deals if you shop around. If someone is willing to build a machine then the allure of the warranty is misplaced. I agree that most people who need workstation type horsepower are more likely to buy a complete solution instead of building one, and then comparison boils down to a closed AIO design vs. a traditional case that provides expandability.

 

[driftless]

maflynn is right, it is an apples to oranges comparison and it is a little unfair to the iMac Pro; why would anyone expect any iMac to be upgradable? Hopefully when the modular, and presumably upgradable, new Mac Pro arrives that will change the discussion and everyone can focus on other issues, such as the price of modular Mac Pro.

 

[BlueTide]

I think another problem with these comparisons is that people try to match computer configs instead of computers that do a given job.

Very few need/want exactly a ready made setup as-is or with slight tweaks. Especially in so-called pro-field where people should be expected to know what they need.

I still laugh to the number of people who get their knickers twisted for Xeons and ECC.

 

[driftless]

I think another problem with these comparisons is that people try to match computer configs instead of computers that do a given job.

Very few need/want exactly a ready made setup as-is or with slight tweaks. Especially in so-called pro-field where people should be expected to know what they need.

I still laugh to the number of people who get their knickers twisted for Xeons and ECC.

There is another group of professionals who don't know nor care about the innards of their machines and are focused on their work.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

There is another group of professionals who don't know nor care about the innards of their machines and are focused on their work.

Well then they should have very good I.T. Support or learn what they need to know, I am amazed at how many people say “I need to do such and such a job but have no idea what specs I need”. This is not acceptable.

Those people need to spend a couple of hours online learning what they need and why they need it because it’s part of their job if they don’t have specialist advice. I’m a scientist and if I need new equipment and associated computing technology I learn it and get the right set up BECAUSE THATS MY JOB.

 

[Strelok]

A 850W PSU is not $165, the Vega Frontier Edition is basically Vega 64 and costs ~$1000. The iMac Pro is a good value to the person who wants an iMac Pro. Personally I find the 5K screen a waste of money at that point, but Apple is also making a "modular" (desktop) Mac Pro, so it doesn't really matter. If you want the iMac Pro, buy it and don't worry about what everyone else is saying.

 

[BlueTide]

There is another group of professionals who don't know nor care about the innards of their machines and are focused on their work.

Yep. And we sure should not listen to their technical advice.

 

[driftless]

Well then they should have very good I.T. Support or learn what they need to know, I am amazed at how many people say “I need to do such and such a job but have no idea what specs I need”. This is not acceptable.

Those people need to spend a couple of hours online learning what they need and why they need it because it’s part of their job if they don’t have specialist advice. I’m a scientist and if I need new equipment and associated computing technology I learn it and get the right set up BECAUSE THATS MY JOB.

No they don't. I know several professionals in graphic arts who purchase iMacs because they are not techies. I am mostly the same way, I don't follow chips and other devices unless I am about to upgrade. I will drop off of this board a month or so after the iMac Pro's are in the wild and re-appear next year around the time of the new iPad release. AppleCare is my IT dep't.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

No they don't. I know several professionals in graphic arts who purchase iMacs because they are not techies. I am mostly the same way, I don't follow chips and other devices unless I am about to upgrade. I will drop off of this board a month or so after the iMac Pro's are in the wild and re-appear next year around the time of the new iPad release. AppleCare is my IT dep't.

Well then if you buy the wrong computer for the job you only have yourself to blame.

Apple just want to sell you a computer and they will not give you impartial advice on what set up you need.

AppleCare is fine as a repair department and that’s ok but useless as a consultancy department working out what you need depending on apps, workload etc for a specific use case. Knowing what hardware you have and why is part of your job you ignore it at your peril, or at least at risk of profit when they person down the road gets twice as much done because they understood what they were buying and how it could increase their productivity.

 

[BayouTiger]

I honestly think there is a large disconnect between many here understanding what a "professional" user is. Many that moan about the Mac pro machines are not the typical professional. The professionals I deal with daily walk up to their computer and work. They will never upgrade it and don't care about anything except what is happening on the screen and their input devices. They have dedicated IT staff that handles that side. Long before the computer is ready to be upgraded, they are replaced.

Also, don't think that aesthetics are not important to them. I deal with Architecural firms working on very large Revit models and their workspace aesthetic is VERY important.

Most here tend to think that the Youtubers and one man shops are the target. Not saying that they are not pros and important users, but many, many more of these machines are sold to large shops doing big work most of us will never hear about.

 

[Phil A.]

IMO, if the iMac Pro provides $5,000 (or whatever you spend on it) of value, then it's good value for money. It's overkill for my needs so I won't buy one but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who certainly would be able to use all its power

I think computers in general are moving towards the appliance model where you buy a sealed unit (laptops certainly are) and the iMacs have been getting more so over the years, so no-one should really be surprised if they buy one

I have a custom built windows computer alongside my macs and it was fun to put it together and get exactly the spec I wanted: I'm not sure I really saved that much but that isn't why I did it - there will always be a market for people who want to tinker but that hasn't been what Apple have been about for a very long time...

 

[Shivetya]

I found a custom workstation that can be configured similar to an iMac Pro here.

Here is a comparison I made:


Total = $6,597.95 plus a little extra for power & video cables etc. (That's just the price of the hardware for a DIY build.)

Base iMac Pro with Pro Vega 64 16GB: $5,599

Ignoring the fact that if you wanted to change any of the components YOURSELF down the road you could with the off the shelf build.

iMac Pro is a good value if you think it is, comparing it to other models is either just beating a dead horse or more apologist denial. It is a good value compared to a loaded iMac 27.

 

[PeterJP]

I am amazed at how many people say “I need to do such and such a job but have no idea what specs I need”. This is not acceptable.

Those people need to spend a couple of hours online learning what they need and why they need it because it’s part of their job if they don’t have specialist advice.

For many, it's not part of their job. If you're a photographer €5K or more per wedding and you need to spend a day learning about obscure hardware that just needs to work, then you're doing it all wrong. It's like saying a photographer should understand the advantage of 4 valves or the exact setup of his hybrid motor of his car. No, it's there to make him money.

It's fine if you consider it part of your job to learn about specific tools. I know photographers who don't even care that there are new types of cameras (mirrorless): they'll just buy Nikon because that's what they've always bought. Could be optimised, certainly. But at the expense of missed opportunities. That can cost much, much (MUCH) more than they'll ever gain by optimising their tools.

 

[AlexMaximus]

I found a custom workstation that can be configured similar to an iMac Pro here.

Here is a comparison I made:

Xeon 8-Core W-2145 CPU: $1315
CPU cooler: $115
Gigabyte C422 motherboard: $629
32GB of Samsung DDR-2666 ECC RAM: $388
AMD Radeon Pro WX 9100 (Vega 64 16GB) GPU: $1700
1TB Samsung 960 Pro m.2 SSD: $668
850W PSU: $165
ATX case: $110
LG UltraFine 5K Display from Apple Store: $1,299.95
Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad from Apple Store: $129
Magic Mouse 2 from Apple Store: $79
Total = $6,597.95 plus a little extra for power & video cables etc. (That's just the price of the hardware for a DIY build.)

Base iMac Pro with Pro Vega 64 16GB: $5,599

Thank you for that example. I think it is kinda... hmm.. well.. an attempt to let it look "ok" for the ones that are struggling with the price justification.
Well, I think this is really a machine dedicated to people that make a living from it or of it. It is a tool. At the end of the year you just put that machine in your yearly tax/invest account and amortise it over a three to five year period. Then it just depreciated enough to get a new "package" and out it goes (that old one). Quick and simple. So here, I clearly see the "package" deal for those pro individuals as well as small and medium enterprises. Price is for sure an issue, but not that critical compared to a private individual that just wants to have the latest and greatest apple toy.

Now since the iMac Pro price tag is finally out of the bag, I also think how great the maxed out standard iMac really is.
If I deduct the the same 1,299.95 amount for the 5K on a regular iMac, the bill looks really sweet all of a sudden.

As an Apple fan boy, I would love to get an iMac Pro for sure. But to be honest, I am still not willing to quit my current engineering jobs. Until I really mutate full blown into a media professional, I guess my pimped out old school CMP hast to suffice.

For those lucky souls that ordered an iMac Pro, - please post your new setup! I would love to see different iMac Pro setups. Maybe one of you Pro guys could also tell me, how much business you generate with what job to justify that sweet looking business workstation tool. I sure love the look of that iMac Pro.

 

[joema2]

...The professionals I deal with daily walk up to their computer and work. They will never upgrade it...They have dedicated IT staff that handles that side. Long before the computer is ready to be upgraded, they are replaced....

Likewise, in recent years I have not seen many IT staff do a desk-side internal upgrade of a user's computer. Rather they swap it out for one that's already upgraded or swap it for a new computer. Back at the corporate repair bench, whether the machine is unscrewed and a board swapped, a sealed case cracked and the internals changed, or just swapped out entirely is invisible to the professionals actually using the computer.

Just because someone is a professional photographer, graphic artist, video editor, aerodynamicist, etc, doesn't mean they maintain hands-on familiarity with computer assembly, repair and servicing. Therefore it's often not a high priority for them whether that computer can be upgraded at the deployed desk location by someone with casual mechanical skills.

 

[jameslmoser]

Whats really sad is that this professional machine is less upgradeable then its consumer version. I couldn't believe that you couldn't even upgrade the ram in it though the regular iMac you can.

 

[MisterAndrew]

I know you could shop around and probably find some lower prices on the components, but I listed the prices from that page because they are all in one place and some of the searches I did for the components brought up similar price results. For example, from Newegg.com the video card is less, but the RAM is more, so I decided the average was close to what you'd be able to put together.

I agree the Vega Frontier Edition is probably closer to the Pro Vega 64 in the iMac Pro than the high-end WX 9100. It hasn't been confirmed yet if the iMac Pro's HBM2 is ECC. It's possible that the GPUs in the iMac Pro are actually closer to the RX line since the Pro 580 in the regular iMac apparently has the same device ID as an RX 580.

I also know that the price would be less if you don't need the 5K display, but I tried to put together a comparison that had similar components. You get a new 5K display with the iMac Pro whether you want one or not.

 

[driftless]

Likewise, in recent years I have not seen many IT staff do a desk-side internal upgrade of a user's computer. Rather they swap it out for one that's already upgraded or swap it for a new computer. Back at the corporate repair bench, whether the machine is unscrewed and a board swapped, a sealed case cracked and the internals changed, or just swapped out entirely is invisible to the professionals actually using the computer.

Just because someone is a professional photographer, graphic artist, video editor, aerodynamicist, etc, doesn't mean they maintain hands-on familiarity with computer assembly, repair and servicing. Therefore it's often not a high priority for them whether that computer can be upgraded at the deployed desk location by someone with casual mechanical skills.

I think that a lot of IT's "cracking open" computers is increasingly being outsourced. For example, in my wife's office of 200+ Dell does all of that work now and her IT dep't concentrates on software and VPN issues. There are several large companies in our area that not only sell computers to corporate accounts but service their hardware a well.

 

[MisterAndrew]

Apple's workstations have usually been fairly priced, if you compare like-for-like.

I agree. A lot of people complain about the price, but part of this price comparison exercise is to show that Apple isn't charging a premium on the components versus similarly spec'd PC workstations. The prices can be a shock to people who are used to the prices of consumer grade components, but this is server grade. The Mac Pro has historically been a good value too, so hopefully the new modular Mac Pro will be as well.

 

[AlexMaximus]

I agree. A lot of people complain about the price, but part of this price comparison exercise is to show that Apple isn't charging a premium on the components versus similarly spec'd PC workstations. The prices can be a shock to people who are used to the prices of consumer grade components, but this is server grade. The Mac Pro has historically been a good value too, so hopefully the new modular Mac Pro will be as well.

The new Mac Pro, the new modular Mac Pro 2019? I absolutely hope my educated guess and my personal fear does not become reality. However, since Apple is talking to Red, (the super duper premium über camera maker), the new Mac Pro will be likely priced as such a Red camera and will be equally modular as such.
What does that mean? -- it will be modularised in the price range that reaches 70K. For all folks that look to the Mac Pro and think it will be equally prized as the current iMac Pro, - I guess we all will be very very disappointed...

So one thing will become very clear: The CMP 5,1 will have been the only Pro machine that was also affordable for the semi professional. I promise you that, the new 2019 Mac Pro will be out of range for many many people on the price end.
There will not be such a large user base as we have now with the classic Mac Pros from 2006 to 2010. I think those times are gone..