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Imac pro or imac 5k 2019 i9 / vega 48? Use work and gaming

C

cuppino

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 14, 2018
34
11
Hello everyone,
I have the possibility to sell my imac 5k 2017 i7 radeon pro 580 at a great price and to be able to buy either an imac pro or a new imac with a strong discount.
I state that for reasons of space and work I necessarily need a mac, I would like to know if an imac pro base or with 10 cores can be superior to an imac 5k 2019 i9 also in gaming.
I also have egpu and I'm interested that everything works fine in bootcamp during gaming.
I also evaluated the addition of the radeon pro 64x in case of imac pro.
This mac will have to last at least 5-6 years because for personal reasons I won't be able to make big expenses.
At most I could replace my egpu later (now I have the rtx 2070).
I am torn between the mac pro and the new 5k i9 vega 48.
I thank you in advance for the advice.
 
I'd recommend the iMac Pro with Vega 64X.
I personally chose this due to the increase(able) RAM in the system, and the better video card. CPU is close enough to almost not matter for most day to day stuff. Games should run about the same. The higher (potential) clock on the i9 will be better than the Xeon. But, again your video card limited at higher resolutions. If your gaming at greater than 2K res. Lower resolutions may not make much difference.
If your also going with an external eGPU. I'd still stick with the Pro model.

This will cost you way more than the 5k iMac but, for the next 5-6 years. You should be plenty happy with it.
 
djphat2000 said:
I'd recommend the iMac Pro with Vega 64X.
I personally chose this due to the increase(able) RAM in the system, and the better video card. CPU is close enough to almost not matter for most day to day stuff. Games should run about the same. The higher (potential) clock on the i9 will be better than the Xeon. But, again your video card limited at higher resolutions. If your gaming at greater than 2K res. Lower resolutions may not make much difference.
If your also going with an external eGPU. I'd still stick with the Pro model.

This will cost you way more than the 5k iMac but, for the next 5-6 years. You should be plenty happy with it.
Click to expand...
Are you insinuating that the 2019 iMac 5K does not have upgradeable RAM? Because it does, and it's way easier than the iMac Pro. You just pop off the door on the back and pop in your sticks. Takes two minutes. For the iMac Pro you have to take it to an Apple Store and they charge you double for RAM.

The i9 is actually faster for most day to day stuff because the single core clock is so much faster and that's what most regular apps use. That being said, it's about the same, maybe slightly faster than the base model iMac Pro for multi-core apps.

There is no difference between using an eGPU on the 2019 iMac 5K vs. the iMac Pro except that the iMac Pro has more Thunderbolt ports. So if your needs are beyond two 40Gbps Thunderbolt ports (such as needing an eGPU, SSD Raid array, Thunderbolt dock and/or 10Gbps ethernet (the iMac 5K has 1Gbps, the iMac Pro comes with 10Gbps built-in), then you might need to get the iMac Pro. But both also have four USB 3 ports, which should be enough for most people.

If the OP already has an RTX 2070 eGPU, then there isn't much point in getting a higher-end built-in AMD graphics card for gaming. The RTX 2070 is similar to the Vega 64/X when you average the benchmarks. The newer overclocked X might have a slight edge in a few games, but it's going to be so small that you wouldn't really notice it. The only real reason to get a higher GPU in the Mac is if the OP is doing a lot of work with video, ML, AR, VR, photography processing or other intensive/scientific task on the Mac side. But they could also get another eGPU with AMD card or swap out the card in their existing box if they have an intensive project to do on the Mac. The RTX 2070 can't be used on the Mac but only in Windows at the moment. If the OP wanted the best of both worlds, a Radeon VII could work, though I'm not sure if it has been updated to work with Macs yet (I think Linus Tech Tips mentioned it in their glowing 2019 iMac 5K review yesterday, so maybe). The Radeon VII is faster than an RTX 2070 and the Vega 64X and would work in both Windows and macOS—though it doesn't have raytracing if that is important to OP.
 
T2 chip for H.265/HEVC is a big plus if you do video stuff, specially all new drone use HEVC and all new action cameras are expected to use the same this year too. all new cameras will adopt HEVC sooner or later. the co-processor does great job in encrypting your SSD, so security comes at price if its important on your list!
 
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macduke said:
Are you insinuating that the 2019 iMac 5K does not have upgradeable RAM? Because it does, and it's way easier than the iMac Pro. You just pop off the door on the back and pop in your sticks. Takes two minutes. For the iMac Pro you have to take it to an Apple Store and they charge you double for RAM.

--- No, wasn't insinuating anything of the kind. You can go higher on the total ram on an iMac Pro. Yes, you should take it to an Apple store to upgrade if you're doing so after the fact. But, there are those that have shown you can do it yourself. ------

The i9 is actually faster for most day to day stuff because the single core clock is so much faster and that's what most regular apps use. That being said, it's about the same, maybe slightly faster than the base model iMac Pro for multi-core apps.

---- I wouldn't say "way" more faster. Depends on what you're doing. There are things that the i9 will do better at, but long term. I'd go Xeon. Especially in such a small enclosure. These chips get hot, and the iMac Pro has a better designed cooling system, with chips that are meant to be on 7/24/365. -------

There is no difference between using an eGPU on the 2019 iMac 5K vs. the iMac Pro except that the iMac Pro has more Thunderbolt ports. So if your needs are beyond two 40Gbps Thunderbolt ports (such as needing an eGPU, SSD Raid array, Thunderbolt dock and/or 10Gbps ethernet (the iMac 5K has 1Gbps, the iMac Pro comes with 10Gbps built-in), then you might need to get the iMac Pro. But both also have four USB 3 ports, which should be enough for most people.

If the OP already has an RTX 2070 eGPU, then there isn't much point in getting a higher-end built-in AMD graphics card for gaming. The RTX 2070 is similar to the Vega 64/X when you average the benchmarks. The newer overclocked X might have a slight edge in a few games, but it's going to be so small that you wouldn't really notice it. The only real reason to get a higher GPU in the Mac is if the OP is doing a lot of work with video, ML, AR, VR, photography processing or other intensive/scientific task on the Mac side. But they could also get another eGPU with AMD card or swap out the card in their existing box if they have an intensive project to do on the Mac. The RTX 2070 can't be used on the Mac but only in Windows at the moment. If the OP wanted the best of both worlds, a Radeon VII could work, though I'm not sure if it has been updated to work with Macs yet (I think Linus Tech Tips mentioned it in their glowing 2019 iMac 5K review yesterday, so maybe). The Radeon VII is faster than an RTX 2070 and the Vega 64X and would work in both Windows and macOS—though it doesn't have raytracing if that is important to OP.
Click to expand...
 
messiry said:
T2 chip for H.265/HEVC is a big plus if you do video stuff, specially all new drone use HEVC and all new action cameras are expected to use the same this year too. all new cameras will adopt HEVC sooner or later. the co-processor does great job in encrypting your SSD, so security comes at price if its important on your list!
Click to expand...
Isn't T2 also limited to 8-bit HEVC? Intel 9-series (i#-9xxx) CPUs on the other hand, support 10-bit HEVC encoding in hardware.
That was the deciding factor for me to choose 2019 iMac with i9.
 
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priitv8 said:
Isn't T2 also limited to 8-bit HEVC? Intel 9-series (i#-9xxx) CPUs on the other hand, support 10-bit HEVC encoding in hardware.
That was the deciding factor for me to choose 2019 iMac with i9.
Click to expand...
Apple is using some customer hardware acceleration on the T2 and the AMD GFX, so yes 10 Bit is supported, the T2 is just a A10 chip similar to the iPhone, so it can do it similar to the iPhone. to be honest I didn't play around with 10 bit HEVC or HDR yet, but I am sure iMP will be faster than the iMac i9

edit: here is a link showing iMP doing 10 bit HEVC https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-pro-hevc-h265.2101070/
 
just realize that eGPU do not all have support with some Pro applications. Its not like you can just plug it in and all your software use it.
 
messiry said:
Apple is using some customer hardware acceleration on the T2 and the AMD GFX, so yes 10 Bit is supported, the T2 is just a A10 chip similar to the iPhone, so it can do it similar to the iPhone. to be honest I didn't play around with 10 bit HEVC or HDR yet, but I am sure iMP will be faster than the iMac i9

edit: here is a link showing iMP doing 10 bit HEVC https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-pro-hevc-h265.2101070/
Click to expand...
This is about decoding, which presents not much problems.
I am interested in encoding (ie exporting a 4K HDR clip) and here iMac Pro has no hardware support. Same thread posts the findings:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-pro-hevc-h265.2101070/page-3
 
priitv8 said:
This is about decoding, which presents not much problems.
I am interested in encoding (ie exporting a 4K HDR clip) and here iMac Pro has no hardware support. Same thread posts the findings:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-pro-hevc-h265.2101070/page-3
Click to expand...

ok I understand now,,, the problem which Apple device can do HEVC 10-bit today? not even the new iMac i9 does it in HW today, actually with 10-Core iMac pro you would get better performance for SW encoding. I saw premier pro doing a better job on 10-bit HEVC than FCPX on iMac Pro so you may need to shift to PP for those projects. eventually once supported in HW, you can get eGPU for those videos. I don't do HDR 4K clips so far as I am doing YouTube videos, and anyway Youtube will transcode to Vp9 for that purpose. I get your frustration, I partially have the same as I do some videos with Mavic 2 pro and it supports 10-bit HEVC, those videos will take ages on iMac pro I tried it.

I guess that would be the selling point for the MacPro :D
 
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I ordered i9/Vega/512ssd, but Will return it, and order i9/RX/1TB ssd.

Difference is never justifiable moneywise, i did because of idee that it runs cooler, and maybe the biggest reason: fomo and little bit fooled by the smart marketing.

Especially for our usage - where gpu is completely irrelevant!

So much more logic to keep the money, or invest in more internal storage.

I will do the test between i9/Vega and i9/Rx while rendering long time under sustained load.

But have been testing while rendering setting fans to maximum of 2700, and you get 5 degrees of of the cpu (standard 90degrees Celsius) - but no gain in cpu speed. Stays stable at 3,8ghz
 
messiry said:
ok I understand now,,, the problem which Apple device can do HEVC 10-bit today? not even the new iMac i9 does it in HW today, actually with 10-Core iMac pro you would get better performance for SW encoding.
Click to expand...
Coffee Lake inside 2019 iMac has the necessary HW onboard, so I hope Apple will update their Compressor to take advantage of this.
 
priitv8 said:
Coffee Lake inside 2019 iMac has the necessary HW onboard, so I hope Apple will update their Compressor to take advantage of this.
Click to expand...

actually coffee lake does only 8 bit HEVC encoding, here is a link to wiki CPU, https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/coffee_lake

I think HW accelerated HEVC 10-bit is for the sunny cove architecture, which we should see a XEON IceLake CPU end of this year,, that makes me think apple will announce the new MacPro during WWDC and will ship it end of the year November/December time frame. Unless apple sticks to the Xeon W chip for today and use a T3 chip or update T2 chip for HEVC as they are doing today with the iMacPro, and later next year introduce a new CPU upgrade kit :) I am sure apple will turn this Modularity approach to a money machine :D

my 2 Cents!
 
messiry said:
actually coffee lake does only 8 bit HEVC encoding, here is a link to wiki CPU, https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/coffee_lake

I think HW accelerated HEVC 10-bit is for the sunny cove architecture, which we should see a XEON IceLake CPU end of this year,, that makes me think apple will announce the new MacPro during WWDC and will ship it end of the year November/December time frame. Unless apple sticks to the Xeon W chip for today and use a T3 chip or update T2 chip for HEVC as they are doing today with the iMacPro, and later next year introduce a new CPU upgrade kit :) I am sure apple will turn this Modularity approach to a money machine :D

my 2 Cents!
Click to expand...

Actually, the Wikipedia entry for QuickSync - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video - states that Coffee Lake does 10-bit HEVC encoding and decoding, whereas the WikiChip entry lumps VP9 with HEVC, which it shouldn’t. Kaby Lake does 10-bit encode/decode in hardware as well - https://www.anandtech.com/show/1061...six-notebook-skus-desktop-coming-in-january/3
 
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Zdigital2015 said:
Actually, the Wikipedia entry for QuickSync - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Quick_Sync_Video - states that Coffee Lake does 10-bit HEVC encoding and decoding, whereas the WikiChip entry lumps VP9 with HEVC, which it shouldn’t. Kaby Lake does 10-bit encode/decode in hardware as well - https://www.anandtech.com/show/1061...six-notebook-skus-desktop-coming-in-january/3
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing,, but that should mean the Mac mini and iMac 2019 should do HEVC 10-bit encoding, where non of the NLE’s showing that it can use it, actually the iMacPro is showing better performance with PremierePro so may be there is HW encoding going on there?? To be honest I didn’t play with any 10 bit HEVC video, if anyone has a sample video HEVC 10-bit i can download and let you know how it preformed. I cant use my Mavic at the moment. Thanks.
 
Melleken said:
I ordered i9/Vega/512ssd, but Will return it, and order i9/RX/1TB ssd.

Difference is never justifiable moneywise, i did because of idee that it runs cooler, and maybe the biggest reason: fomo and little bit fooled by the smart marketing.

Especially for our usage - where gpu is completely irrelevant!

So much more logic to keep the money, or invest in more internal storage.

I will do the test between i9/Vega and i9/Rx while rendering long time under sustained load.

But have been testing while rendering setting fans to maximum of 2700, and you get 5 degrees of of the cpu (standard 90degrees Celsius) - but no gain in cpu speed. Stays stable at 3,8ghz
Click to expand...
Please observe the idle and running temps between both too!
 
after much thought I invested some money and I decided to set it up as a signature and I'm very happy! (I returned the 2070 to amazon for 2080 ti)
 
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cuppino said:
after much thought I invested some money and I decided to set it up as a signature and I'm very happy! (I returned the 2070 to amazon for 2080 ti)
Click to expand...
so are you using this new card in an eGPU and Vega 48? can you use eGPU on bootcamp?
thanks,
 
cuppino said:
Yes! The 2080ti can only be used in windows, vega 48 on mac and on windows.
Click to expand...
hopefully with Mac OSX 10.15 we may have Nvidia drivers so you may be able to run it. just a question regarding the 2080i, can it do HEVC 10-bit encoding in HW in premier pro?
Thanks.
 
messiry said:
hopefully with Mac OSX 10.15 we may have Nvidia drivers so you may be able to run it. just a question regarding the 2080i, can it do HEVC 10-bit encoding in HW in premier pro?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I don't use premier, I'm sorry.
 
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