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iMac Pro: Weak performance with Bootcamp
- Thread starter Schaufelmann
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I did the same. Since bootcampdrivers.com lists their current offering as Not Compatible (versus Unknown) I think they have tried to get it to work and they haven't been able to yet. I am guessing that this means they either need some additional work done by AMD on the core of the driver package or they need to do more extensive work to make their custom package work. Either way that is beyond my abilities so I'll just wait.
Unfortunately, AMD does not really offer support for Windows on Mac GPUs. The drivers they ship are terribly outdated. Most of the time, the GPUs are explicitly blacklisted by the driver and a simple text file modification is enough to update to the latest official windows driver. Modders out there offer great community service by releasing repackaged drivers.
I think that just means user reports. If you look in the forum posts, Mat (the guy who runs bcd) says he'll be able to look into it starting Jan 6 when he's back from holidays.
In the meantime, anyone with the patience to futz around with id strings, feel free to post a walkthru!
It's actually pretty poor that AMD, such a close partner of Apple, offers such lacklustre support of Mac hardware in the form of Windows drivers.
I suppose it's in neither companies' interest to make Windows graphics really shine on Mac hardware (Apple hardly wants you spending more time in Windows than macOS), but it should be clear from the Intel transition days that the ability to go dark side is a factor in people opting for Mac hardware as a best fit solution.
ThatSandWyrm
macrumors 6502
That's about 5 FPS better than what I get in MacOS.
[doublepost=1514962196][/doublepost]
It hits 65 FPS or so on the first test without AA.
Again... DO NOT BUY this thing as a gaming machine. Use a dedicated PC. But if you want to play a game at full (Vega) speed while doing some serious number-crunching in the background, this might be the machine for you.
Given that Apple advertises the iMac Pro with "higher frame rates for VR, (...) and gameplay at max settings", and likes to showcase the HTC Vive with iMacs it's disappointing that your advice is right.
Neither the popular and incredibly impressive VR apps "The Lab" or "Google Earth VR" run natively on macOS, nor could I find a single game with macOS support in the Top 100 best selling VR apps on Steam. I think this would be a nice incentive for Apple to provide good Vega drivers for Windows.
When I bought the black Mac Pro shortly after the release (early 2014 I think), I could install the native drivers for the AMD FirePro D500 on Windows 7 / Boot Camp, and play many new games with maximum details. That was awesome.
ThatSandWyrm
macrumors 6502
Well let's be honest. The iMac Pro is a stopgap machine. They took an existing chassis, and the best parts they were willing to use, and built a very quiet monster that looks amazing on paper. Just... not so much in real-world use.
It's really amazing that they did it all as well as they did in so short a time, but the whole premise of this machine was flawed from the get-go. i7 still beats it most of the time. The GPU is good, but not great. So the iMP's use cases are inherently limited. Its biggest potential market (rich gamers) has to be calmly told that this really isn't the machine for them, and not to get their expectations up. That's not a great marketing story.
I mean, 2 weeks on I'm still on the fence about returning it. I like so many things about it that have nothing to do with the performance. Some apps run really great. But the lack of general-purpose performance, the non-scalability of additional eGPUs, and not seeing most of my apps take advantage of the CPU/RAM choices that added a lot of money to this config, is just maddening.
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I returned my iMac Pro today, and will keep using my 2017 iMac with the Radeon 580 instead. Under Boot Camp, the old iMac is more reliable and in many cases faster than the iMac Pro.
It feels like the Vega is not a real Vega but a special needs Mac-Vega that neither AMD nor Apple wants to fully support. So much for the VR capabilities. As you said, it looks amazing on paper, but not so much in real-world use. If I wanted to continue using my Vive with all the apps I purchased for that, I would need to buy a VR capable PC in addition to the iMac Pro. And another external display, because the iMac Pro cannot be used as a display for the PC. Well, no.
It feels like the Vega is not a real Vega but a special needs Mac-Vega that neither AMD nor Apple wants to fully support. So much for the VR capabilities. As you said, it looks amazing on paper, but not so much in real-world use. If I wanted to continue using my Vive with all the apps I purchased for that, I would need to buy a VR capable PC in addition to the iMac Pro. And another external display, because the iMac Pro cannot be used as a display for the PC. Well, no.
SoyCapitanSoyCapitan
Suspended
The Vega Pro is just a Vega with a different device ID and the word ‘Pro’ on it. That means AMD’s Windows drivers won’t recognise it and you have to use the drivers supplied by Apple. This has always been the case before.
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Email that Craig guy. He’s in charge of the cut down macOS drivers and the Boot Camp restrictions. He does it on purpose to **** Mac users and keep them on an upgrade path so that his stock will be worth more.
The guy who runs www.bootcampdrivers.com (making AMD's regular graphics drivers usable for Bootcamp), will start looking into this on Monday afaik. So one should probably give this another week or two. But it's disappointing that Apple offers such bad support for their iMac Pro GPU - in both OSX and Bootcamp.
SoyCapitanSoyCapitan
Suspended
They won’t even include HEVC decode support on GPU under macOS. This company doesn’t want you to have nice things if it means you don’t upgrade your whole machine/phone/tablet every 18 months. They won’t even let you play 4K HDR movies from iTunes unless you buy an Apple TV. Your powerful computer is left to play 720/1080p versions only.
iPhone users start class actions but you guys don’t. You get shafted every year because of that.
sputnikBA
macrumors 6502
There's no GPU HEVC decode on macOS with an iMac Pro? That doesn't sound right considering it got stage mentions at WWDC. Haven't a few reviews even tested HEVC and found it to be multiple times faster than other Macs? while the macs like 2017 5k are faster at 264 because of quick sync.
Can you elaborate on this - what happened when you tried it?
@joema2 do you know anything about this?
Trebuin
macrumors 65816
I tried my highest BR/Quality HEVC video on the iMac to see. It doesn't appear to pull any GPU use. Also, it appears to pull 2-5% of my CPU with VLC 4. I don't think GPU HEVC decode would help in this case.
i am in doing most cases that kind of work and need#hvec 265 , HDR10, 4k UHD , that is why i ordered just the Vega56 and will use my TITAN XP E-GPU on the ImP. it is by far more Superrior than a VEGA GPU, even when it comes to some Gaming in 4k HDR Ultra via External Display
sputnikBA
macrumors 6502
getting sidetracked from bootcamp discussion I know but i found this - maybe its related to why you aren't seeing HEVC hardware encoding:
...but seems to be working fine here though?
...but seems to be working fine here though?
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Any idea if it will reduce the performance if using the E-GPU for accelerated internal display for IMP?
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ThatSandWyrm
macrumors 6502
My recollection is that the Vega Pro isn't quite the same architecture as the consumer Vega cards. One generation older, or derived from something else on the pro side of their lineup. Hence the lack of built-in HEVC decoding.
In any case, this is to be expected with any new Apple product. Their obsession with secrecy gimps their ability to do proper bug testing prior to release. I actually think that the iMP is doing very well considering how quickly they slapped this thing together. I honestly expected it to catch fire or have major fan noise issues. One can criticize their overall design choices But the hardware seems pretty solid from an engineering point of view. The problems are mostly in software, which is easier to fix.
[doublepost=1515302670][/doublepost]
I think that you raise a very good point.
If you're in the target market for this machine, then you most likely already have additional monitors, a previous iMac, a spare PC/Laptop (or both), at least $10K+ in camera/lighting/sound gear, specialized peripherals like a $3K Wacom Cintiq, etc. Maybe even an assistant or two.
If you want to buy this Mac, but as a result can't afford the other gear you need for your work, then buy a lesser (and possibly faster for what you need) Mac and invest the difference in quality cameras/lenses or whatever else you need in your business. Just as you shouldn't buy a Thoroughbred without already having a barn, horse trailer, tack, saddle, trainer, a jockey, and a good case for exactly why you need that specific breed of horse.
[doublepost=1515302902][/doublepost]
It will. Most tests I've seen of PCs in a Windows environment see a hit of approximately 10% when accelerating the the internal display with an eGPU. Hooking it to an external display will always be faster.
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Trebuin
macrumors 65816
I don't know if hardware decoding is going to matter. I managed to run all my test videos of H265, but none of them were able to cause much of a bump in the CPU & nothing on the GPU. All the videos run smoothly. Traditionally, I only enjoy hardware decoding benefits from weak systems such as the Apple TV or the iPhone. It allows the video to run smoothly there. I'd be more interested in hardware encoding, but QS is not a good standard for the quality of videos I'm encoding. If I could just use the settings that I like & enjoy the performance, that would help.
BeSweeet
macrumors 68000
Base iMac Pro. Clean W10 install with all the Windows support software / drivers. I tested Overwatch, which nets 10-25FPS in game regardless of resolution and settings. The 3D scene at the main menu does increase in FPS at lower settings, however (closer to 60, but still terrible in game).
It seems like there's definitely a bottleneck somewhere since it should be getting more than that.
It seems like there's definitely a bottleneck somewhere since it should be getting more than that.
Have you called Apple support? Apple needs to hear how they completely dropped the ball on their Bootcamp support for the iMac Pro.
Apart from the crappy GPU driver, which doesn't have proper support for the Vega Pro (can't control many settings like overclock and undervolt, and lacking important AMD software features), the audio drivers also have various issues (static noise after ca. 45-60 minutes use of internal speakers, internal speakers sounding muffled and weak, big latency on headphones output). Apple also messed up the SMC, and people so far aren't able to make fan control software work in iMac Pro Bootcamp. Also Apple needs to update their bluetooth driver for their wireless keyboard, touch pad and mouse.
Time for Tim Cook and co to a break from emojis, and do some real software and driver quality control.
Apart from the crappy GPU driver, which doesn't have proper support for the Vega Pro (can't control many settings like overclock and undervolt, and lacking important AMD software features), the audio drivers also have various issues (static noise after ca. 45-60 minutes use of internal speakers, internal speakers sounding muffled and weak, big latency on headphones output). Apple also messed up the SMC, and people so far aren't able to make fan control software work in iMac Pro Bootcamp. Also Apple needs to update their bluetooth driver for their wireless keyboard, touch pad and mouse.
Time for Tim Cook and co to a break from emojis, and do some real software and driver quality control.
BeSweeet
macrumors 68000
That test was with the default Boot Camp AMD drivers.
Currently testing the other ones. So far, there is a noticeable improvement (basically doubled), though it's still not even close to where a Vega 56 should be (at least according to https://static.techspot.com/articles-info/1468/bench/Overwatch_4K.png).
Project Alice
macrumors 68020
One thing I've learned is that if I'm running windows on any mac, don't treat it like a mac. Treat it like a PC, because under windows it is. Don't worry about apples bootcamp drivers. Use drivers from the manufactures of the hardware, AMD, intel or whomever.
I didn't read through this entire thread, but if this has not been tried I would do so. It wouldn't hurt to uninstall the bootcamp software altogether and use option to switch back and forth.
I didn't read through this entire thread, but if this has not been tried I would do so. It wouldn't hurt to uninstall the bootcamp software altogether and use option to switch back and forth.
janjouf
Suspended
as i can see it is a powerfull hardware configuration ;
use this under windows
https://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri
https://www.driveridentifier.com/download.php
or
https://www.driveridentifier.com/files/driveridentifier_portable.zip
..... for only curiosity:
Can you send me html file generated (when you use "i do not have internet connection")
I will try to help you finding the best stable drivers ...
And please a "report" with this tool:
http://download.cpuid.com/cpu-z/cpu-z_1.83-en.zip
--------------------------------------
Under mac you can disable "csr util" by booting "from" recovery partition" (temporarly" ) then reanable it after getting a "Dump" with this tool:
https://bitbucket.org/blackosx/darwindumper/downloads/
(http://osxdaily.com/2015/10/05/disable-rootless-system-integrity-protection-mac-os-x/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send all report to me please as soon as possible:
macjanjouf(at)gmail.com
macjanjouf@gmail.com
Thanks
[doublepost=1520696476][/doublepost]For graphics try this update :
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop?os=Windows+10+-+64
or this
http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/amd-radeon-adrenalin-edition-18-3-1-driver-download.html
--------------------
https://www.wagnardsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1038
------------------------
http://www.guru3d.com/files-categories/videocards-overclocking-tweaking.html
http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/amd-registry-editor-download.html
--------------------------
For the fan control ,you can use this:
https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control/download
use this under windows
https://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri
https://www.driveridentifier.com/download.php
or
https://www.driveridentifier.com/files/driveridentifier_portable.zip
..... for only curiosity:
Can you send me html file generated (when you use "i do not have internet connection")
I will try to help you finding the best stable drivers ...
And please a "report" with this tool:
http://download.cpuid.com/cpu-z/cpu-z_1.83-en.zip
--------------------------------------
Under mac you can disable "csr util" by booting "from" recovery partition" (temporarly" ) then reanable it after getting a "Dump" with this tool:
https://bitbucket.org/blackosx/darwindumper/downloads/
(http://osxdaily.com/2015/10/05/disable-rootless-system-integrity-protection-mac-os-x/)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Send all report to me please as soon as possible:
macjanjouf(at)gmail.com
macjanjouf@gmail.com
Thanks
[doublepost=1520696476][/doublepost]For graphics try this update :
https://support.amd.com/en-us/download/desktop?os=Windows+10+-+64
or this
http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/amd-radeon-adrenalin-edition-18-3-1-driver-download.html
--------------------
https://www.wagnardsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1038
------------------------
http://www.guru3d.com/files-categories/videocards-overclocking-tweaking.html
http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/amd-registry-editor-download.html
--------------------------
For the fan control ,you can use this:
https://www.crystalidea.com/macs-fan-control/download
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Thanks. You can download Adrenaline 18.3.1, and force update the driver through Device Manager (update graphics driver, use own driver etc., and choose "Radeon Pro 580" -> full instructions see bootcampdriver.com). But I can't find any Vega drivers in the list, when updating in this way. Previous AMD Vega drivers from December would crash Bootcamp (if so, you can go into safe mode, use DDU, and then install Bootcamp drivers again - then use AMD GPU driver. Use WinClone for Bootcamp backup btw.). Maybe present Vega drivers would work better, but I've yet to try this myself.
MSI Afterburner offers no overclocking/undervolting control over the GPU at this point, neither fan control (you have to set a static speed with Macs Fan Control in OSX, and then reboot into Windows). The lack of proper GPU support in Bootcamp from Apple is the problem. Could RadeonMod be used in some way to activate overclocking/undervolting?
When installing Adrenaline 18.3.1, you only get the Settings Software. Any kind of additional software (Wattman, overclocking etc.) is not installed. Apple really dropped the ball here (please call them and complain about this, maybe something will happen). Using a Radeon 580 driver for our Vega Pro 56/64, I wonder how much performance we're missing out on?
MSI Afterburner offers no overclocking/undervolting control over the GPU at this point, neither fan control (you have to set a static speed with Macs Fan Control in OSX, and then reboot into Windows). The lack of proper GPU support in Bootcamp from Apple is the problem. Could RadeonMod be used in some way to activate overclocking/undervolting?
When installing Adrenaline 18.3.1, you only get the Settings Software. Any kind of additional software (Wattman, overclocking etc.) is not installed. Apple really dropped the ball here (please call them and complain about this, maybe something will happen). Using a Radeon 580 driver for our Vega Pro 56/64, I wonder how much performance we're missing out on?