iMac tale of woe

grcar

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Sep 28, 2014
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I bought a iMac online, the mid-range 27" model (8GB, 1TB fusion, 390 graphics chip with 2GB memory). Machine cost about as much as leasing a new car. Took delivery Wednesday. Next day plugged in and rebuilt files from time machine backup of older mac. Booted and started conversion of iPhoto library. When returned a half hour later, screen was dark. Tried to power on but no chime. Know enough to understand this is serious. The soonest Apple could schedule visit to geniuses at the nearest store was next Thursday (7 days) or a bit further store Saturday (2 days) or Palo Alto immediately. After 30 miles and 1 hour drive one way (not rush hour thank God) happy to exchange. But wait! All my private files are on that thing. I do not care about the photos (although some might: see Erin Andrews) but I do care about my bank and brokerage statements. Big potential for identity theft. Only solution, which I had to suggest, is leave the machine for repair (3 to 5 days) by installing new logic board and new power supply then drive to Palo Alto again (30 miles and 1 hour one way again) and watch them erase the disk. Then I can let Apple keep the piece of sh** under the 14-day return policy. Meanwhile, back to my old mac.

Conclusion: Apple has no ability whatsoever to do business outside the lines of their very rigid customer experience plan. For example, Apple leaves no slack to schedule immediate store visits for customers whose products die on day one. And if I need to know my files are erased or if the FBI needs to know what the terrorists put on their phone then it is up to me or the FBI to find a solution. I do not think Apple cares about security (they didn't care about mine or the people of San Bernadino). Instead they just do not care. Thanks, Apple!
 
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Kirsten Hollerd

macrumors newbie
Jun 16, 2011
26
5
I bought a iMac online, the mid-range 27" model (8GB, 1TB fusion, 390 graphics chip with 2GB memory). Took delivery on Wednesday. Next day plugged in and rebuilt files from time machine backup of older mac. Booted and started conversion of iPhoto library. When returned a half hour later, screen was dark. Tried to power on but no chime. Know enough to understand this is serious. The soonest Apple could schedule visit to geniuses at the nearest store was next Thursday (7 days) or a bit further store Saturday (2 days) or Palo Alto immediately. After 30 miles and 1 hour drive one way (not rush hour thank God) happy to exchange. But wait! All my private files are on that thing. Only solution, which I had to suggest, is leave the machine for repair (3 to 5 days) by installing new board and new power supply then drive to Palo Alto again (30 miles and 1 hour one way) and watch them erase the disk. Then I can let them keep the piece of sh** under the 14-day return policy. Meanwhile, back to my old mac.

Conclusion: Apple has no ability whatsoever to deal outside the lines of their very rigid customer experience. If I need to know my files are erased or if the FBI needs to know what the terrorists put on their phone then it is up to us to find a solution. Thanks, Apple!
[doublepost=1461304476][/doublepost]I've read and re-read your complaint and I've been trying to figure out why you're having anxiety over this and comparing it to the civil liberties at risk with the FBI case. Believe it or not, most people spending that kind of money on an iMac don't want it torn open by Geniuses mere days after delivery. Most would want a new exchange, just as they offered- is that the rigid part of the experience that got to you?
I feel your pain around the wait and drive time to get a Genius Bar appointment but is your data really causing you that much worry that you need to physically be present to watch them erase the drive? I doubt they're going to do anything but send your faulty iMac back to be recycled or refurbished with new parts and HDD. I can't picture the Geniuses painstakingly getting your iMac up and running after you've left so that they can check out your iPhoto library.

Let us know what you come up with as far as cracking iPhones for the FBI.
 

grcar

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Sep 28, 2014
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[doublepost=1461304476][/doublepost]I've read and re-read your complaint and I've been trying to figure out why you're having anxiety over this and comparing it to the civil liberties at risk with the FBI case. Believe it or not, most people spending that kind of money on an iMac don't want it torn open by Geniuses mere days after delivery. Most would want a new exchange, just as they offered- is that the rigid part of the experience that got to you?
I feel your pain around the wait and drive time to get a Genius Bar appointment but is your data really causing you that much worry that you need to physically be present to watch them erase the drive? I doubt they're going to do anything but send your faulty iMac back to be recycled or refurbished with new parts and HDD. I can't picture the Geniuses painstakingly getting your iMac up and running after you've left so that they can check out your iPhoto library.

Let us know what you come up with as far as cracking iPhones for the FBI.
Hey Kirsten, I can't figure our your post. (1) Most people do not expect Apple products to die on day one. (2) Most people do not expect to drive 2 hours round trip to address the problem. (3) Most people *do* keep all their records electronically. When was the last time you got a bank or brokerage statement on paper? Big potential for identity theft. Where do you suppose macs go for rehab? Probably to the same country they are built in.

(I edited my original post to clarify the points you may have found unclear.)
 

Kirsten Hollerd

macrumors newbie
Jun 16, 2011
26
5
Hey Kirsten, I can't figure our your post. (1) Most people do not expect Apple products to die on day one. (2) Most people do not expect to drive 2 hours round trip to address the problem. (3) Most people *do* keep all their records electronically. When was the last time you got a bank or brokerage statement on paper? Big potential for identity theft. Where do you suppose macs go for rehab? Probably to the same country they are built in.

(I edited my original post to clarify the points you may have found unclear.)
I understand that you've had a tough, anxiety-filled day. I guess you could have gone to the store that had an appointment 2 days away, but you CHOSE to make the long drive and then equated your issue with the FBI case and concluded Apple doesn't care about security. On top of that you worried about Chinese nationals stealing your identity. Just saying you could use some perspective.
 

maflynn

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My suggestion is to use FileVault and if you had to replace the computer, the data would not be accessible by Apple. Personally, I'd probably just swap the computer instead of having them replace the logic board, that's just my $.02 just because as you mention, this is a new computer and it shouldn't have died so soon - but that's me.
 

grcar

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Sep 28, 2014
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Personally, I'd probably just swap the computer instead of having them replace the logic board, that's just my $.02 just because as you mention, this is a new computer and it shouldn't have died so soon - but that's me.
Hi, the issue here is to protect my files. If I were to swap the computer, then Apple would send it nobody knows where with all my files on it. Apple specifically said they could not give me assurance my files would be deleted. Only way is to fix it and then watch them delete the files.
[doublepost=1461323421][/doublepost]
I understand that you've had a tough, anxiety-filled day. I guess you could have gone to the store that had an appointment 2 days away, but you CHOSE to make the long drive and then equated your issue with the FBI case and concluded Apple doesn't care about security. On top of that you worried about Chinese nationals stealing your identity. Just saying you could use some perspective.
Hi, When the thing went dead I had no information what would happen so it was imperative to get an immediate answer. The 14-day return policy had started ticking. Suppose I had gone to the store 2 days later and the time to repair is 13 days. 2+13=15>14 means too late to return. And my data is important to me. Lose your credit card and have somebody start making charges and see how important it is too you!
 
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Fishrrman

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Feb 20, 2009
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OP wrote above:
"When was the last time you got a bank or brokerage statement on paper?"

A couple of days ago.
I get ALL my bank/financial statements "on paper".
I use NO electronic statements AT ALL.
I prefer doing things the old-fashioned way.

Just because you do it online, don't assume that everyone else does.

BTW, I don't own any kind of "smartphone". I have an old cell "flip" phone, but it's ALWAYS turned off. I never use it, except for emergencies.
Never owned an iPod or iPad, either.
And I've been a Mac user since 1987, and an Apple // user before that!

You made a mistake with the iMac.
You got one with a 1tb fusion drive, which has only a 24gb "SSD portion".
Be wise and return it and get one with the 2tb fusion drive instead (which has a 120gb SSD).
 
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grcar

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Use Filevault in the future, obviously you want to ensure you data is not stolen then you need to use encryption.

If it was me, I'd opt for the new Mac, as Apple would have just erased the drive.
Apple specifically told me they could not guarantee the drive would be erased.
 

CWallace

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Aug 17, 2007
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Apple specifically told me they could not guarantee the drive would be erased.
As FileVault encrypts the data on the drive, even if someone nefarious gained access to the drive, they wouldn't be able to get the data off it. So once it got back to the refurbishment center, it would be erased to be reused. You can also use Find My Mac to remotely erase a Filevault drive.
 
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maflynn

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Apple specifically told me they could not guarantee the drive would be erased.
As I mentioned in the future, you should use FileVault. Clearly encryption is on the top of everyone's mind given Apple's run in with the FBI. There's really no good excuse not to use it. That way you could have handed over the computer without worrying about your data
 

dwfaust

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Jul 3, 2011
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I agree with @maflynn 100%. Encrypt your drive (FileVault) and then, no matter who, what, when, where or how, your data is safe and secure.

I get your frustration over not having immediate genius bar appointment for this kind of stuff... but dang, son, use some smarts and avoid the stroke and/or panic attack.

I'd take my chances any day with my unerased, encrypted drive over a "watch Apple erase my hard drive" dog-and-pony show.

And I'm much happier and secure knowing that Apple is not hacking away at my civil liberties and privacy as the US Government's lap dog.
 
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grcar

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I agree with @maflynn 100%. Encrypt your drive (FileVault) and then, no matter who, what, when, where or how, your data is safe and secure.
You folks gotta understand I am in a very unique situation. Because the mac totally died on the very first day of operation, I am perhaps unique in being able to get a full refund. Normally even with the Applecare warranty all you can do is have it repaired. Because I want to give the whole machine back, and it is dead, they have no way to protect the files on it. And yes I will look into filevault.
 

grcar

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You made a mistake with the iMac.
You got one with a 1tb fusion drive, which has only a 24gb "SSD portion".
Be wise and return it and get one with the 2tb fusion drive instead (which has a 120gb SSD).
Thanks for the tip.
 

dwfaust

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Jul 3, 2011
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You folks gotta understand I am in a very unique situation. Because the mac totally died on the very first day of operation, I am perhaps unique in being able to get a full refund. Normally even with the Applecare warranty all you can do is have it repaired. Because I want to give the whole machine back, and it is dead, they have no way to protect the files on it. And yes I will look into filevault.
Everybody's situation is special and/or unique. Encrypt your drive and any data stored on it will be protected from access.
 
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maflynn

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I am in a very unique situation
No not really, but I think you're making it a bigger issue then what others would have. I'd say most consumers that got a machine that failed fairly quickly would be getting a new machine and not worry about the data.

I'm not belittling your desire regarding security, but I think overall given apple's security and privacy stance, its not as big of an issue that you may think it is.
 

grcar

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given apple's security and privacy stance, its not as big of an issue that you may think it is.
The Apple employees said they could not assure me my data would be safe, and one of them indicated returned machines go overseas to be refurbished.

On the other hand, Apple was willing to disobey the FBI to protect the data of terrorists. Apple cares more about terrorists than it cares about me.
 

redheeler

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Oct 17, 2014
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The Apple employees said they could not assure me my data would be safe, and one of them indicated returned machines go overseas to be refurbished.

On the other hand, Apple was willing to disobey the FBI to protect the data of terrorists. Apple cares more about terrorists than it cares about me.
The data on Macs is not encrypted by default like the data on iPhones, and they're referring to a slim chance the data doesn't get erased before refurbishment, not giving your data to the FBI.

I had enabled FileVault prior to handing over my iMac yesterday, and that's really all you need to do to keep your data safe.
 

dwfaust

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Jul 3, 2011
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The Apple employees said they could not assure me my data would be safe, and one of them indicated returned machines go overseas to be refurbished.

On the other hand, Apple was willing to disobey the FBI to protect the data of terrorists. Apple cares more about terrorists than it cares about me.
That's a bit dramatic, don't you think?

Apple has no standing mandate to "obey" the FBI. They fought the attempted violation of someone's civil rights and right to privacy the correct way - in the judicial system. In this case (and the subsequent drug case in New York), the FBI/police blinked. And as a result, it's still a matter to be ruled upon judicially.

But to even attempt to say that Apple chose the terrorists over you is just drama, plain and simple.
 

grcar

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The data on Macs is not encrypted by default like the data on iPhones, and they're referring to a slim chance the data doesn't get erased before refurbishment, not giving your data to the FBI.

I had enabled FileVault prior to handing over my iMac yesterday, and that's really all you need to do to keep your data safe.
There is a difference between the FBI and a factory in China. I am OK with Apple giving my data to the FBI if the FBI wants it. The problem is, Apple takes no precautions to protect my data when they ship the machine to China to be refurbished.

Apple should automatically encrypt data on ALL its products, not just iPhones. Why should people who buy expensive desktop computers have less security than people who buy iPhones?
 

dwfaust

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Jul 3, 2011
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There is a difference between the FBI and a factory in China. I am OK with Apple giving my data to the FBI if the FBI wants it. The problem is, Apple takes no precautions to protect my data when they ship the machine to China to be refurbished.

Apple should automatically encrypt data on ALL its products, not just iPhones. Why should people who buy expensive desktop computers have less security than people who buy iPhones?
All you have to do is ENABLE FileVault. It's already installed and ready to go. Sometimes we all have to take responsibility for "pushing the button".
 

redheeler

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Oct 17, 2014
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Apple should automatically encrypt data on ALL its products, not just iPhones. Why should people who buy expensive desktop computers have less security than people who buy iPhones?
Desktop hard drives are treated differently than built-in flash storage, as they are not necessarily confined to one device, OS, or user account. As mentioned above, enabling FileVault is very simple and can be done at any time in System Preferences > Security & Privacy > FileVault.
 

grcar

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All you have to do is ENABLE FileVault. It's already installed and ready to go. Sometimes we all have to take responsibility for "pushing the button".
If Apple is so concerned about security, then why isn't file vault enabled by default?
[doublepost=1461434560][/doublepost]
Desktop hard drives are treated differently than built-in flash storage, as they are not necessarily confined to one device, OS, or user account. As mentioned above, enabling FileVault is very simple and can be done at any time in System Preferences > Security & Privacy > FileVault.
I understand, but it is pretty rare to find a new Apple desktop that does not have some type of flash.
 

redheeler

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I understand, but it is pretty rare to find a new Apple desktop that does not have some type of flash.
By "desktop hard drives" I actually meant both solid state and mechanical. The only Mac where it's soldered to the board like in iPhones is the MacBook, and that's also the only new Mac which lacks Target Disk Mode for using the drive on another device.
 
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