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Imac vs. THIS mini

Kingmanarts

Kingmanarts

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 23, 2016
27
3
Eugene, Oregon
Hardware
* 3.0GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i5 (Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz)
* 8GB 2666MHz DDR4
* Intel UHD Graphics 630
* 1TB SSD storage
* Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connector)
$1699

BenQ SW2700PT 27" 1440p 99% Adobe RGB Color Accurate Monitor for Photography $599

Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 32GB 2666MHz DDR4 CL15 260-Pin SODIMM Laptop Memory, Kit of 2 (HX426S15IB2K2/32) $310

Total $2608

Verses comparable iMac for $3299

Hardware
* 3.5GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz
* 32GB 2400MHz DDR4
* 1TB SSD
* Radeon Pro 575 with 4GB video memory
* Magic Mouse 2
* Magic Keyboard - US English
* Accessory Kit
 
You can buy the iMac with 8 GB RAM and upgrade with cheaper third-party RAM later, like the Mac mini. This makes the price difference smaller and still gives you a better display and GPU in the iMac.

I'd wait for next year's iMac though, as the CPU in the current model is still quad-core Kaby Lake (which underperforms compared to the hex-core Coffee Lake in the Mac mini).
 
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I assume you have the keyboard and mouse part sorted out for the mini route, yes?

You can get the LG 4K Ultra Fine display (the one Apple features, and I believe uses the same basic panel in the 21.5 in. iMac) for half off if you are willing to go certified refurbished if you purchase off of Amazon. But then again, I don't know if you actually want the Retina display, some well respected photographers do not like the retina aspect for photo sharpening purposes. It sounds counter-intuitive, but it is so... If you go with this route you save another $249. That would leave you with $940 savings over the iMac, from the original 691 savings.
https://www.amazon.com/LG-Ultra-Mon...F8&qid=1541185479&sr=8-4&keywords=4k+ultra+lg

Either way, with the $691 or $940, you could get the Blackmagic eGPU and spend 8 extra dollars or save 241 dollars and end up with a superior GPU, or get a different compatible eGPU and card (you're going to have to the research on this part, but they do exist and you can save even more money than the Blackmagic eGPU.

You of course don't have to have the GPU, but you end up with much worse cpu performance than the iMac.

What I'd do is wait a week after people have the iMac in hand, read the reviews and see if the cooling Apple describes as being twice as good as the before mini really is up to snuff. If it is, unless you reeeaallllly want an all-in-one, I'd absolutely go the Mac mini route.

Edit to add, the BenQ display looks really nice for color accuracy, but the BenQ website is extremely deceptive when it comes to advertising the resolution of the monitor, they're touting features on that particular monitor's page that don't exist with it. Also, it seems the monitor I recommended only has a 90 day warranty. Caveat emptor.
 
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Kingmanarts said:
Asking pros/cons
Click to expand...

Ahh, OK, I'll inject my $0.02, but there's a decent amount of subjectivity.

First, we've got the 6-core vs. the 4, I'd spend the extra +$200 for the bump to the i7 and from a processor perspective, it'll be a good bit faster vs. the [current] iMac. The UHD 630 is plenty for non-graphic demanding tasks, but will fall behind on most GPU intensive tasks (3D games for example).

I personally don't like All-In-One machines. I like choosing my own displays (I prefer 2), that match, I don't need the Apple keyboard or mouse because I prefer 3rd party (like my Das Keyboard 4 Pro mechanical), I even like that the computer itself is super portable. The biggest hardware shortcoming, the GPU, if that is an issue, is resolved with an eGPU (external GPU), there are options that are much faster than that iMac GPU, and modular (so you can upgrade as new cards/tech are available), but it's just not quite as "elegant".
 
For a fairer comparison you should budget to DIY upgrade the 5K's ram too.

Mini Total: $2610 (does not include mouse, keyboard, webcam, speakers?, or dGPU)
iMac Total: $3010 (with 40GB of ram: 8GB factory + same/equivalent 32GB)


Even if you don't need to purchase Mouse/Keyboard/Webcam/Speakers that $400 difference is going to disappear real fast if you discover the UHD 630 isn't enough and have to buy an eGPU.

How confident are you that your usage will require at most minimum or infrequent graphical acceleration?
 
There are many who have despised the iMac concept from day one. This new 2018 mini is the long wished for answer to iMac problem.
 
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Thanks for the input. So the Radeon Pro 575 with 4GB video memory for the iMac will be significantly better over the Intel UHD Graphics 630? I am a graphics guy Wacom, Adobe PS, some light video editing. Editing photos of products web/print. eGPU (additional graphics memory?) is something I can add later to the mini?
 
The great thing about the mini is if the monitor craps out on you, just buy a new monitor. With iMac, you have to get it repaired. You have better setup options since the computer isn't tied to the monitor.
 
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Kingmanarts said:
Thanks for the input. So the Radeon Pro 575 with 4GB video memory for the iMac will be significantly better over the Intel UHD Graphics 630? I am a graphics guy Wacom, Adobe PS, some light video editing. Editing photos of products web/print. eGPU (additional graphics memory?) is something I can add later to the mini?
Click to expand...
Yes, the GPU in the iMac will beat the GPU in the Mac mini, it won't even be a contest. If you go the route where I detailed you spending 8 extra dollars over the iMac, you gain in the CPU department with two extra cores and a newer gen processor, you gain in the GPU department with a Radeon Pro 580 with double the VRAM, and gain in the display market with a display more suited to critical photo editing than the iMac's.
To reiterate, the Blackmagic eGPU (https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HM8Y2VC/A/blackmagic-egpu) sold by Apple is specifically chosen by Apple to work flawlessly with all Macs with thunderbolt 3 (mini included, of course). It even gives you some additional ports over the base mini or iMac, almost acting like a dock (more relevant to mention if you had a laptop). It's a preorder item right now, so you could get the mini you can see if the graphics work for you, and then buy it spending those 8 extra dollars if you believe it will help, or save the $691 if you don't think you need it. And you don't even need to get the Blackmagic brand eGPU if you decide you want one, there are other less-expensive, fully compatible eGPUs out there.

p.s. since no one answered one of your questions in your first post, the mini is fully featured on the wireless comms front.

If it were me, I'd wake a week and see read the reviews on the mini especially regarding cooling. If it works well, and I were in your shoes and already had the keyboard/mouse/speakers, I'd totally get the mini. You stand to gain the inarguably better CPU, and save 691 on (potentially) adequate graphics, or spend the extra 8 dollars for better graphics. I think the mini is a great opportunity if you're willing to forego the all-in-one experience (with the mini being better for parts upgradability and repairability)

Edit to add: check out post 51 of this thread regarding GPU strengths in the new mini. https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...30-pros-and-cons.2150795/page-3#post-26736757
 
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The Mini’s on board graphics support of 4k/5K monitors is all well and good. How much you are going to do with that gpu is the real question.

EGPU support changes everything. Once you buy an iMac you are stuck with the graphics card you select at the time. You will not be able to upgrade it down the line. The Vega 64 card in the iMac Pro is eclipsed by current Nvidia cards by a wide margin and will also soon be replaced by newer AMD cards. That 5K people just threw down on an iMac Pro looks like a bad decision.

Get the mini. Heck, buy an Apple Magic Keyboard and Track Pad. Get a great 4k monitor (maybe even has built in speakers). When you are ready, GRAB a great eGPU enclosure and the gpu of your choice.

In my eyes the Mini has replaced the iMac as the desktop workhorse.
[doublepost=1541274437][/doublepost]For $400 more here is what I would do and I thew the webcam in for an all iMac experience.

Mac Mini
  • 3.2GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz)
  • 8GB 2666MHz DDR4
  • Intel UHD Graphics 630
  • 512GB SSD storage
  • Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connector)
$1499

Magic Keyboard & Trackpad
$300

LG 27uk850 (4k)
$549

CORSAIR Vengeance Performance 32GB (2x16GB) 260-Pin DDR4 SO-DIMM DDR4 2666 (PC4 21300)
$288

Samsung T5 Portable SSD - 1TB
$227

Akitio Node - Thunderbolt3 eGPU
$219

MSI Video Card Radeon RX Vega 56
$449

Logitech BRIO
$167
 
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Would there be any issues with the fan and cooling system?

It is a tight configuration and only has 1 fan.

What are the thoughts? Would apple not consider this when creating the Mac Mini?
 
Kingmanarts said:
Hardware
* 3.0GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i5 (Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz)
* 8GB 2666MHz DDR4
* Intel UHD Graphics 630
* 1TB SSD storage
* Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connector)
$1699

BenQ SW2700PT 27" 1440p 99% Adobe RGB Color Accurate Monitor for Photography $599

Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 32GB 2666MHz DDR4 CL15 260-Pin SODIMM Laptop Memory, Kit of 2 (HX426S15IB2K2/32) $310

Total $2608

Verses comparable iMac for $3299

Hardware
* 3.5GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.1GHz
* 32GB 2400MHz DDR4
* 1TB SSD
* Radeon Pro 575 with 4GB video memory
* Magic Mouse 2
* Magic Keyboard - US English
* Accessory Kit
Click to expand...

OR for $3099 from the Apple Store
27” iMac, Core i7, 4.2GHz, 8GB DRAM, 1TB SSD, Radeon Pro 580, Magic Mouse 2, Magic Keyboard, Accessory Kit. And add 16GB of OWC DRAM for a total of 24GB of DRAM for another $149.00.

Grand total - $3248.00

UNLESS, you really want the Mac mini

In which case, you want this

Core i7, 8GB of DRAM, 1TB SSD, 10Gbps Ethernet $1999 and add a BenQ SW271 - $989 and 32GB of DRAM from OWC $329.00

Grand Total - $3317.00

I ended up get a BenQ factory refurb SW271 at Memorial Day, when they had a coupon for 17% off (yeah, weird), so I ended up spending around $677 on a 27 “ 4K display that includes a USB-C connection. The SW2700PT is a fine monitor, though.

I guess for the outlay of money, the 5K iMac is top of the line and you can add another 16GB or 32GB of DRAM down the road, and end up with 32GB or 48GB.

If you swapped back to the SW2700PT on the above configuration, you could spend the extra money ($390) and buy yourself a Sonnet Tech eGFX 350 and a Radeon RX570 8GB or an RX580 8GB for $159-$19, depending on what specials New Egg is running. I am seeing MSI Armor GPUs on sale now, spend a bit more for a Sapphire Tech Pulse RX580 (NOT a Nitro+) for around $250 and your are set to go with a top line Mac mini for $1999+$329+$599+$390, which is $3319 as well and you get an eGPU and 32GB of DRAM.

Sorry for the mess, no time to format properly.
 
mralexandercom said:
Would there be any issues with the fan and cooling system?

It is a tight configuration and only has 1 fan.

What are the thoughts? Would apple not consider this when creating the Mac Mini?
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be. Apple enlarged the fan with the added space of taking out the HDD. This is nowhere near as tight as a MBP.
 
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I do not think the price gap ends up being very much for comparable specs when all is said and done. The biggest question is whether you prefer the elegance and simplicity of the iMac's AIO design or the mini's ability to choose your own peripherals (mouse/kb/monitor/eGPU).
 
It hasn't been confirmed yet whether the RAM in the new Mini is user friendly replaceable. We know it's not soldered in, but what we don't know is if it requires disassembling the entire computer to get at it.

I think all those who ordered a new mini with 8GB of ram are going to be in for a surprise — gotta take it to a Apple Service shop to have a pro install extra ram. Not a biggie- but more expensive than what we thought. Maybe the BTO 16GB ram option at purchase isn't so expensive after all.
 
now i see it said:
It hasn't been confirmed yet whether the RAM in the new Mini is user friendly replaceable. We know it's not soldered in, but what we don't know is if it requires disassembling the entire computer to get at it.

I think all those who ordered a new mini with 8GB of ram are going to be in for a surprise — gotta take it to a Apple Service shop to have a pro install extra ram. Not a biggie- but more expensive than what we thought. Maybe the BTO 16GB ram option at purchase isn't so expensive after all.
Click to expand...

Clearly the prudent thing to do is wait and see what our friends at iFixit discover during their teardown. I can wait a couple more weeks. For me, I will only buy one if not only can the ram be replaced, but also the ssd (with a little bit of disassembly work of course). We shall see.
 
BigBoy2018 said:
Or iunless you want a built in video card that’s actually worth a damn.
Click to expand...

Not everyone wants or needs a dGPU, as evidenced by the millions of people who already have laptops and desktops (Mac and PC) that do not have discrete graphics right now.

Granted, some of those who have a tower-based PC with an x16 PCIe slot have that option already, but adding a video card is an additional cost for those people should they decide that they need one to extend the life of their PC. Unless your workflow suddenly demands a GPU, I suspect those people will not do that. If they do, what are they going to buy to go in their $500-$600 PC? An NVIDIA 1050 is the only real economical option for that price range PC. The 1060 starts at $200, which is a third of the cost of that $600 PC, so I suspect it is a tough sale in that market.

What dGPU should Apple have used? I suspect there is no satisfying answer for members of this forum, because everyone wants something different. Guaranteed, it would have been an AMD GPU. It would also be soldered to the board, which would have made no one happy, especially those complaining about the UHD 630 solution.

For now, anyone purchasing a Mac mini retains the option of adding an discrete GPU down the road via an eGPU. My hope is that prices for eGPUs continue to come down and that solutions begin multiplying. The proliferation of eGPUs also helps the PC industry as Thunderbolt 3 become more prevalent and users who prefer a Windows-based laptop gain access to Thunderbolt 3 ports on even value priced laptops that do not contain a dGPU.

Intel has indicted that they are going to integrate the Thunderbolt 3 controller into the CPU at some point, which will make adding Thunderbolt 3 an even easier proposition. It is up to users and the industry to make sure that Intel follows though on this sooner, rather than later.
 
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