OK, thank you for the explanation. Our approaches to back-up are very different.
- David
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iMac with 5K Display Update?!
- Thread starter AlmostKilledMe
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OK, thank you for the explanation. Our approaches to back-up are very different.
- David
I'm pretty sure most people DO NOT access more than 100GB of material on their internal hard drive, also the technology behind the Fusion is very intelligent as it is constantly swapping, measuring accessing your most used files and placing them in order.
So if My Main programs are on this 100GB SSD it would always be faster than any standard spinning mechanical HD. Also this is my work machine as well where I am constantly video editing. Now onto another note, the only thing I wish was I could swap out the graphics card for a 4GB as at times my 2GB gets full when working in Final Cut and Resolve forcing me to restart.
Currently looking for an external SSD though as standard 7200rpm drives is really slowing me down...,,,..
Professional do. I have the 1TB SSD and would have purchased a larger SSD if it was available. I have over 220GB in apps alone. Fusion is an innovative idea for the casual consumer but not beyond.
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Here you go. I have one arriving tomorrow (delayed by weather).
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1041407-REG/lacie_9000477_little_big_disk_5tb.html
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I respectfully disagree. I was using my 3TB fusion until I got fed up with the hard drive grinding away when I'm doing random things. 100GB really isn't that much. I like the knowledge that EVERY app is running off the SSD, and until we have more control over that - it doesn't happen. If you tend to listen to music a lot, your music collection - for example, will go on the SSD and that app you like so much - will dump off to the hard drive.
I'm much happier now going full SSD (external 1TB Thunderbolt), and using the fusion disk as a scratch disk and for my photo collection.
iMac with 5K Display Update?!
As others have said, that's just simply not true. Someone with 700GB of data, such as yourself, will likely use more than 100GB on a fairly regular basis.
If you don't - you're proving my point - why keep it on a desktop computer? Store it on a network drive, share it across all your devices, all the time. The speed difference between a network attached SSD and your 7200rpm Fusion drive will be negligible, if not favoured towards the NAS. And the NAS speeds are only going to get better.
It doesn't even come down to affordability. The 256GB SSD is the same price as a Fusion drive. Put all your media on a NAS, and keep ~200GB of apps, frequent files, and ongoing work projects on the iMac. The external storage could even be a 7200rpm drive - it doesn't matter, the bottleneck will be moved outside of your $3,000 iMac and can be alleviated at ease later, without needing to drop $3k.
So even if you have 2TB of data, a 256GB SSD is still the better option, because you're getting ~220GB of your data on super fast SSD, vs. 100GB. You can later extend that to xTB of thunderbolt/SSD storage, which is incomparably faster than the Fusion HDD. With the Fusion drive, you're forever stuck with a bottleneck that predates the 2000s, or indeed an empty spinning hard drive inside your expensive iMac.
As far as I see it, a Fusion drive doesn't make sense financially or practically, which is why I was recommending an SSD like many others. That's all.
It's not subjective stuff I'm putting down here. I myself am on a DYI fusion drive with a 240GB SSD and 1TB HDD, and so I understand the shortfalls. Since I got my NAS, my internal HDD is pretty much used as a temporary drive.
As others have said, that's just simply not true. Someone with 700GB of data, such as yourself, will likely use more than 100GB on a fairly regular basis.
If you don't - you're proving my point - why keep it on a desktop computer? Store it on a network drive, share it across all your devices, all the time. The speed difference between a network attached SSD and your 7200rpm Fusion drive will be negligible, if not favoured towards the NAS. And the NAS speeds are only going to get better.
It doesn't even come down to affordability. The 256GB SSD is the same price as a Fusion drive. Put all your media on a NAS, and keep ~200GB of apps, frequent files, and ongoing work projects on the iMac. The external storage could even be a 7200rpm drive - it doesn't matter, the bottleneck will be moved outside of your $3,000 iMac and can be alleviated at ease later, without needing to drop $3k.
So even if you have 2TB of data, a 256GB SSD is still the better option, because you're getting ~220GB of your data on super fast SSD, vs. 100GB. You can later extend that to xTB of thunderbolt/SSD storage, which is incomparably faster than the Fusion HDD. With the Fusion drive, you're forever stuck with a bottleneck that predates the 2000s, or indeed an empty spinning hard drive inside your expensive iMac.
As far as I see it, a Fusion drive doesn't make sense financially or practically, which is why I was recommending an SSD like many others. That's all.
It's not subjective stuff I'm putting down here. I myself am on a DYI fusion drive with a 240GB SSD and 1TB HDD, and so I understand the shortfalls. Since I got my NAS, my internal HDD is pretty much used as a temporary drive.
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To be fair, Intel hasn't made anything jaw dropping since Sandy Bridge CPUs. Before the riMac I was still running a 2500k, best cpu ever. They haven't had any competition from AMD since then too.
No, he might work in a quieter environment though, i hear the noise the HD makes it's not DEAD silent when it gets used, but the MyBook Duo makes more noise so it doesn't really matter to me.
My Internal HD on my computer works perfect and never had a problem, no need for a larger SSD when my 1TB Fusion works perfectly.
Outside of surfing the net, listening to iTunes all I do is work in my Video Editing programs (Final Cut, Resolve, etc.) which run perfect. My ONLY slow-down has been using my external Raid 0 drives reading/writing which is why I am purchasing an external SSD.
My computer is Silent as stated and I work from my home where there's no noise at all. Final Cut and similar programs launch in seconds and works perfect.
My Specs are
3.4 i7GHZ
24GB
680MX 2GB
1Tb Fusion
Outside of surfing the net, listening to iTunes all I do is work in my Video Editing programs (Final Cut, Resolve, etc.) which run perfect. My ONLY slow-down has been using my external Raid 0 drives reading/writing which is why I am purchasing an external SSD.
My computer is Silent as stated and I work from my home where there's no noise at all. Final Cut and similar programs launch in seconds and works perfect.
My Specs are
3.4 i7GHZ
24GB
680MX 2GB
1Tb Fusion
Anyone arguing for an heat and noise and vibration monster on the inside of a computer just does not get it.
This is 2015. And I believe that SSD's are actually for everyone. The exception is external spinners. Knock yourself out on those.
I have a stack of 500GB external spinners in the drawer. Once I saw how fast an external SSD was, I vowed to never go back. It's awesome.
Do keep in mind that I have a 512GB Internal SSD. So I would never need more than say a 1TB external drive. I have a 512 and that is fine for now. Prices will come down
Also for the record, I use Backblaze as an added layer of backup.
I have been a huge fan of the SSD, long before they were what they are today. Slow, extremely unreliable in the beginning.
I still think some are way better than others. But overall as a group they are way better than the early days. My first SSD = 16GB.
This is 2015. And I believe that SSD's are actually for everyone. The exception is external spinners. Knock yourself out on those.
I have a stack of 500GB external spinners in the drawer. Once I saw how fast an external SSD was, I vowed to never go back. It's awesome.
Do keep in mind that I have a 512GB Internal SSD. So I would never need more than say a 1TB external drive. I have a 512 and that is fine for now. Prices will come down
Also for the record, I use Backblaze as an added layer of backup.
I have been a huge fan of the SSD, long before they were what they are today. Slow, extremely unreliable in the beginning.
I still think some are way better than others. But overall as a group they are way better than the early days. My first SSD = 16GB.
iMac with 5K Display Update?!
Great, you're happy living with it. But that's all subjective and personal to you. That wasn't what we were discussing here.
Fact is, the internal 7200rpm standard-issue HD of your Fusion drive will be the primary bottleneck on your machine for more common tasks (general read/write).
We are recommending future buyers opt-out of this easily avoidable bottleneck and instead go for a single SSD. I am yet to come across any reason to choose a Fusion drive on a desktop computer when there is a reasonable SSD option at no extra cost.
External storage is much, much faster and, if you don't like wires, then wireless network storage is almost as fast and much more suitable for cross-device, cross-platform sharing.
Great, you're happy living with it. But that's all subjective and personal to you. That wasn't what we were discussing here.
Fact is, the internal 7200rpm standard-issue HD of your Fusion drive will be the primary bottleneck on your machine for more common tasks (general read/write).
We are recommending future buyers opt-out of this easily avoidable bottleneck and instead go for a single SSD. I am yet to come across any reason to choose a Fusion drive on a desktop computer when there is a reasonable SSD option at no extra cost.
External storage is much, much faster and, if you don't like wires, then wireless network storage is almost as fast and much more suitable for cross-device, cross-platform sharing.
Same here! Very happy with my 3TB Fusion Drive. The machine is very fast and very very quiet (I can hear the fan when I'm playing 3D games, but I have never heard the spinning HDD).
And an external HDD is far far more noisy than my machine: I don't wan't any external storage (except for back ups), it's noisy and not very convenient with all the cables. Plus back uping is far more complicated when you have external storage. I use Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner to back up: in one unique operation, all my system and documents are secure.
And I can't imagine buying today a machine with less space than my 2007 iMac (750GB...). Fusion Drive is a good compromise for me: not as fast as a pure SSD, but a lot faster than a spinning HDD. And all documents I use often benefit from the SSD, that would'nt be the case if my documents were on an external HDD...
That being said, I can understand peple who definitely need speed and choose the SSD. Today it's a compromise in both ways: space for the full SSD, and speed for the Fusion Drive. Only a cheap 3TB SSD will make everyone happy
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A modern HDD is less than 10W, it's not the HDD who warm up the rImac, it's the AMD GPU... Look at my temps on my non Retina iMac with HDD and nVidia: it's far more cooler than a Retina with AMD and no HDD
There have been reasons given, you just don't listen. Besides, there IS extra cost. Sure, you get a small SSD inside for the same cost as a 1TB fusion but then you still need to buy an external drive.
He is listening. Andy91 wrote several thoughtful and informative posts. While you may not accept his advice and suggestions, they maybe helpful to others who are reading this thread but not posting.
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Only a cheap 3TB SSD will make everyone happy
Some day soon!
That's true! And an external HDD is far louder than an iMac with Fusion Drive...
Just a matter of time
Fusion Drive is a transationnal techno, to compensate ths too small capacity of actual SSD, for people who don't want external storage.Honestly, I just put my head in my palms.
An "external HDD" is the same hardware as your Fusion drive HD. It's identical. It's the same thing, literally.
Put the external drive under your desk. Suddenly it's quieter. Put the external storage in a complete different room...well.
Alternatively, use an external SSD - the primary recommendation in this thread - and there's no noise even if you strap it to your own damn face.
Come on guys, stop clutching at straws.
Very happy for you!!
I was just saying an external HDD is louder than a HDD enclosed in an iMac, no need to be aggressive. I can hear the noise of my TM back up when I swich the external drive on. I've never heard the internal HDD of my FD.
More complicated or more expensive. I prefer my Fusion Drive
One unique internal drive, easy to configure, to access and to back up. I purchased the 5k within minutes of the applestore.com re-opening after the end of the Apple event where it was announced back in October. I had been wanting to purchase a new 27" iMac and the rumor was that they were going to release a retina screen so I had been waiting for a few months. The presentation about the device looked so amazing and I was so excited that the rumors were true. I went with the upgraded 4.0 GHz i7 CPU, 4 GB graphics card, 3 TB Fusion Drive and 16 GB RAM. I don't use it for any professional work at all, but since I usually keep my computers for 5 years or so I always try to get more then what I need. It cost a LOT of money, so I was nervous.
It finally arrived after about a week. I have been using it for 3 solid months now and I am absolutely blown away with it. It is so amazing. I use mine in my house and much of the time it is completely quiet and I can't hear it at all. When I am doing video conversions or playing high end games I definitely hear the fan kick in, but even then it isn't loud, just noticeable.
I preferred to go with more internal storage and chose the 3 TB Fusion Drive as opposed to a much smaller 228 GB SSD. The SSD is faster and quieter technically, but but it is negligible at best. I know because I have another system that has only an SSD and it's not noticeably that mush faster even with large files. My thinking is why buy an iMac that has everything built into a single unit only to go out and buy something else that sits on the desk next to it that is going to be louder then it would be if it was in the unit itself. Plus the external storage isn't SSD so now you are dealing with the bottle neck of that spinning drive? The answer is there isn't a good reason for it if you want a lot of storage.
I have had maybe 2 issues since I've had it. One was due to Safari not finding web pages when clicking on links and the other was the Mail application not synching with the gmail server. Both of these issues were due to Yosemite, not the 5k iMac.
The 5K is benchmarked faster than the lower end iMac Pro! There is no need to wait for the 5K to be upgraded. If you have a 27" iMac that was built in the last couple years then it's probably worth waiting a couple years to upgrade in general as you already have an awesome computer, but simply waiting for the 5K to be improved before purchasing one because it isn't fast enough for you now is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard.
It finally arrived after about a week. I have been using it for 3 solid months now and I am absolutely blown away with it. It is so amazing. I use mine in my house and much of the time it is completely quiet and I can't hear it at all. When I am doing video conversions or playing high end games I definitely hear the fan kick in, but even then it isn't loud, just noticeable.
I preferred to go with more internal storage and chose the 3 TB Fusion Drive as opposed to a much smaller 228 GB SSD. The SSD is faster and quieter technically, but but it is negligible at best. I know because I have another system that has only an SSD and it's not noticeably that mush faster even with large files. My thinking is why buy an iMac that has everything built into a single unit only to go out and buy something else that sits on the desk next to it that is going to be louder then it would be if it was in the unit itself. Plus the external storage isn't SSD so now you are dealing with the bottle neck of that spinning drive? The answer is there isn't a good reason for it if you want a lot of storage.
I have had maybe 2 issues since I've had it. One was due to Safari not finding web pages when clicking on links and the other was the Mail application not synching with the gmail server. Both of these issues were due to Yosemite, not the 5k iMac.
The 5K is benchmarked faster than the lower end iMac Pro! There is no need to wait for the 5K to be upgraded. If you have a 27" iMac that was built in the last couple years then it's probably worth waiting a couple years to upgrade in general as you already have an awesome computer, but simply waiting for the 5K to be improved before purchasing one because it isn't fast enough for you now is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard.
iMac with 5K Display Update?!
And I was just saying that's factually incorrect. You're comparing two different drives. It's not valid.
Back to subjective context, no facts. It's actually two drives and works the same way as having an external one in terms of config and backup, but we shall move on.
Still no tangible advantages to a Fusion drive.
And I was just saying that's factually incorrect. You're comparing two different drives. It's not valid.
More complicated or more expensive. I prefer my Fusion Drive
Back to subjective context, no facts. It's actually two drives and works the same way as having an external one in terms of config and backup, but we shall move on.
Still no tangible advantages to a Fusion drive.
Cost, it's slightly cheaper than 256 GB + external storage assuming that much storage is needed. Of course the disadvantages still include much slower 128 GB SSD, extra heat added to the machine, and difficult replacement when it fails. Unless the Fusion drive is de-fused you also have the disadvantage of not being able to decide what goes on which drive.
No I am not, so it's valid M. Dwight Schrut. Same HDD in my iMac and in my external Drive (Seagate ST3000).
The FD is easier to back up, it's a fact: the system and the datas are on the same unit. You just have to back up one drive.
With one bootable clone with CCC I can access to both my system and my datas.
iMac with 5K Display Update?!
True, good point redheeler. I had overlooked that.
Advantage #1: save $40*
* only applicable if you don't already have an external drive. Slows down, heats up and makes your $3,000 product marginally noisier.
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I've never looked into which drives are in the Apple TMs. I'll have a look later.
My main point is that saying external drives are more noisy doesn't make sense. My external drive isn't even on the same floor in my house! And an external SSD is silent?
Fusion drive:
SSD = OS and some data
HDD = data
Backup = two drives, one process
External option:
SSD = OS and more data
External drive = data
Backup = two drives, one process
I'm lost as to why it's simpler?
True, good point redheeler. I had overlooked that.
Advantage #1: save $40*
* only applicable if you don't already have an external drive. Slows down, heats up and makes your $3,000 product marginally noisier.
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I've never looked into which drives are in the Apple TMs. I'll have a look later.
My main point is that saying external drives are more noisy doesn't make sense. My external drive isn't even on the same floor in my house! And an external SSD is silent?
Fusion drive:
SSD = OS and some data
HDD = data
Backup = two drives, one process
External option:
SSD = OS and more data
External drive = data
Backup = two drives, one process
I'm lost as to why it's simpler?
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I must admit I don't know how to make one bootable disk with my system and my datas in one opeation with the external storage option
And I just don't wan't to buy a +3K computer with the capacity of computers that were sold 10 years ago. If Apple offer the FD as an option, I'm sure that it fits the need of some people better than a (very) small SSD... Or the (very) expensive 1TB.
It's a choice to make, and I don't see why for me a SSD would be a better option (and the heat argument, it's very funny... A HDD consume less than 10W nowaday, the 295 GPU it's more than 100W...).
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And yes, an external SSD is silent, but very expensive if you wan't big capacity. I have 3TB in my machine (I love my FD!!), if I wan't that on an external SSD volume, it's not just 40$ like you said
And I just don't wan't to buy a +3K computer with the capacity of computers that were sold 10 years ago. If Apple offer the FD as an option, I'm sure that it fits the need of some people better than a (very) small SSD... Or the (very) expensive 1TB.
It's a choice to make, and I don't see why for me a SSD would be a better option (and the heat argument, it's very funny... A HDD consume less than 10W nowaday, the 295 GPU it's more than 100W...).
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Like I said, I can hear my Seagate spinning in my external Lacie drive, but I can't hear the HDD in the iMac, just because the noise is more contained in the iMac chassis.I've never looked into which drives are in the Apple TMs. I'll have a look later.
My main point is that saying external drives are more noisy doesn't make sense. My external drive isn't even on the same floor in my house! And an external SSD is silent?
And yes, an external SSD is silent, but very expensive if you wan't big capacity. I have 3TB in my machine (I love my FD!!), if I wan't that on an external SSD volume, it's not just 40$ like you said
Wow man. Some people DON'T want external hard drives, yet you keep arguing your point like it works for everyone. Network storage?? Just no.