Image retention during IR test but never any other time, odd

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Dominus Mortem, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. Dominus Mortem macrumors regular

    Aug 3, 2011
    I can create IR on my 13" rMBP using the checkerboard test, it's not real bold but it's there and it takes a few minutes to fade. However, if I try to duplicate this any other way, no luck. I've tried leaving really contrasty windows open for a long time (10+ mins.), even an open word document with bold text for as long as 20 minutes, then cut to a gray screen and there's no retention. I've tried this multiple ways and multiple times. I don't see it in normal operation either. So what is up with it showing up in that checkerboard test but not being reproducible any other way - any thoughts?
  2. Xgm541 macrumors 65816

    May 3, 2011
    IR issue is blown way out of proportion on this forum as are many other 'issues' with apple devices. Because you can reproduce it in specific conditions does not mean you will notice it in everyday usage.

    I've had my retina for a few months and have yet to encounter IR during my usage. I have the LG screen too.
  3. krravi macrumors 65816

    Nov 30, 2010
    Those harsh images used for the test when displayed in TV's can leave a trace as well.

    I think the liquid crystals in the LCD panel take time to change state and since all our LCD's are 60 Hz, its normal.

    I have an LG panel myself, never put it to any image retention test. But am using it as I do daily and haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary.
  4. Xgm541 macrumors 65816

    May 3, 2011
    Great explanation.
  5. Dominus Mortem thread starter macrumors regular

    Aug 3, 2011
    This doesn't explain it though. I'm doing tests with just as much contest all over the screen and leaving it up for a really long time, like 20+ minutes. I'm using big, bold 78point fonts in word, pitch black type on a super white background, then switch to gray after a really long time, no IR. I am duplicating the checkerboard test pretty closely and taking it to even greater extremes and still no IR. But IR shows up in the checkerboard test.
  6. lightz39 macrumors regular

    Nov 30, 2012
    You sure the checkerboard is the monitor and not your eyes? You can stare at a checkerboard and then look to a white wall and continue to see it.
  7. krravi, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2012

    krravi macrumors 65816

    Nov 30, 2010
    Are you staring at the thing during the whole time? if so, there is also image retention with our *real* retinas :)

    As far as getting IR in a certain image, well certain images are not conducive to viewing and displaying. Take those images from illusions, for example. They are tricky to see but displaying correctly and in your case you are seeing correctly but its not displaying correctly. One of the mysteries of life.

    LCD's with a slow/normal refresh rate will retain images. This was the whole marketing scheme behind *beating the motion blurring* with 120 Hz TV's and now the 240 Hz TV's for 3D. I have a Samsung LCD TV with 120 Hz. But guess what? When I enable the motion blurring option, the video looks like it was taken from a home camcorder. So I never use that. I will get a Plasma since they are so thin these days, when I have to get my next TV.

    So LCD TV manufacturers came up with lot of workarounds in Image processing to compensate for that. Remember when some videophiles say LCD TV"s will never be as good as a plasma or a CRT? this exactly is why and its a weakness. But its the low weight,power consumption and cost that actually pushed LCD to the forefront of display technology whereas it was the worst performer.

    The LCD in a laptop is no different.

    But in all fairness I agree there are variations between LG and Samsung. Samsung might be doing some tricks behind the scenes to make it appear good, but fundamentally they are the same.

    The liquid in the LCD is actually a dye and my guess is Samsung has a better recipe than LG.

    I returned an MBA recently due to severely washed out colors and my guess is that batch of LCD's had a bad batch of dye's when they were compounded.Some disgruntled employee diluted it more? or wasn't monitoring the process closely? Who knows?

    But I am using my retina MBP daily now before the return period and I can't really seem to find any fault with it. Even the colors are perfect. Could I produce some odd results by running some programs or visiting some websites? I probably could. But, If I am going to use it as I would and I don't see any issues then all is good for me, personally.

    But if you are going to be left with a nagging feeling that your monitor isn't up to your expectation's then exchange it by all means.

    In the end, you have to feel good about your purchase.
  8. Dominus Mortem thread starter macrumors regular

    Aug 3, 2011
    I'm sure it's not, I don't look at the monitor until the very last moment. Humans have sensory memory that works in front of STM and the visual field sensory memory lasts up to a second. So even if I had been staring at the screen, my visual sensory memory would have faded fairly fast. The IR on the screen takes 2-3 minutes to fade during the checkerboard test.

    As for the IR itself. I wouldn't know the screen had it without the checkerboard test. If it never gets worse and I never see it during daily operation I don't/won't care. My *only* concern is that it may get worse and I may end up seeing it during daily operations, then I'll be upset about it. I just want to make sure it's not going to end up being an issue down the road is all. I'm sure if it got bad enough Apple would replace the screen but that's always a hassle.
  9. krravi macrumors 65816

    Nov 30, 2010
    Then use it everyday to do your usual stuff and see if you notice anything out of the ordinary, before your return period is up.
  10. Dominus Mortem thread starter macrumors regular

    Aug 3, 2011
    UPDATE: I put on a medium gray background and left my browser open for 20 minutes and there was an impression of it on the background that took 2+ minutes to fade. This isn't terrible and I can live with it. My concern is if it will get worse over time as others have reported.

    The return period is only 14 days and I'm at about day 12 now. I have to decide whether to keep it and hope or just downgrade to a 13" Air.
  11. krravi macrumors 65816

    Nov 30, 2010
    What a conundrum huh?

    I have an MBA 13 and a rMBP where I have to return one of them before the time is up.

    I have an LG rMBP and have no issues so far, didn't really do the IR test. The MBA has a samsung screen and is perfect.

    Just evaluating my needs as a developer as to what offers the best screen real estate and portability...
  12. Dominus Mortem thread starter macrumors regular

    Aug 3, 2011
    I wonder if any rMBP 13" even come with Samsung screens or if they are *all* LG screens. If the latter is the case, there's no point in playing the lottery with them in hopes of getting a more stable screen. I wonder if anyone has gotten a screen replacement on a 13" yet?

    I remember IR being a problem 10 years ago on ancient LCD technology but I think the industry should have found a way around that by now. Obviously some have found a way since Samsung screens seem mostly free of IR issues. My rMBP 15" has a Samsung screen and is now 3 months old and has zero IR issues.

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