iMessage for Android App 'Beeper Mini' is Back, Apple ID Sign In Now Required and Phone Numbers Don't Work

[Iwavvns]

Side-note, isn't there an actual sub-section of Android on MR? I honestly dont think i have seen this much pro-android stuff on MR since i have been here OUTSIDE that subsection than i have in the past two weeks.

Wild.

There may be an Android section, I’ve not checked.. I don’t use google products. I use Apple products because they are the correct tool for my needs. The moment they stop being the correct tool, I will dump them and move onto something else. Brand loyalty, as well as comfort zones, should not exist.

 

[scorpio vega]

Brand loyalty, as well as comfort zones, should not exist.

Because you say so?

Comfort Zones are a part of human nature. It's why intorverts are comfortable by themselves or in less social settings because they are comfortable there. Brand loyalty exists because you have been shown that you can rely on them.

It's no different than me going to the same Mechanic for the last decade. The same local bar. Or restauraunt.
I use Surface computers because they are reliable.

Brand loyalty is earned by proven reliability and there is nothing wrong with that. It's always good to step out your comfort zone every now and then but having a comfort zone is a boundary and it's ridiculous you think they shouldnt exist.

 

[bobcomer]

Side-note, isn't there an actual sub-section of Android on MR? I honestly dont think i have seen this much pro-android stuff on MR since i have been here OUTSIDE that subsection than i have in the past two weeks.

Wild.

I just checked, no, there is no android section. That doesn't mean there's not a lot of android, Windows and Linux users here.

 

[scorpio vega]

@Harthag I know you enjoy giving me reactions (In fact the last 3 days alone i have gotten so many from you <3) but i am curious what you disagree with about my post which is factual.

Human beings are going to be loyal and trust what is proven reliability. Which goes along with the Android fanboy mentality of iPhone users don't use anything but iMessage because it is proven reliable for them that you guys continue to make as an argument for iMessage to be on Android.

 

[scorpio vega]

I just checked, no, there is no android section. That doesn't mean there's not a lot of android, Windows and Linux users here.

All they talk about is Android.

Alternatives to iOS

non-Apple devices and OSes

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Iwavvns]

Because you say so?

Comfort Zones are a part of human nature. It's why intorverts are comfortable by themselves or in less social settings because they are comfortable there. Brand loyalty exists because you have been shown that you can rely on them.

It's no different than me going to the same Mechanic for the last decade. The same local bar. Or restauraunt.
I use Surface computers because they are reliable.

Brand loyalty is earned by proven reliability and there is nothing wrong with that. It's always good to step out your comfort zone every now and then but having a comfort zone is a boundary and it's ridiculous you think they shouldnt exist.

The only thing that is reliable, in my opinion, is for a tool to work for a certain purpose. The moment that tool no longer serves a certain purpose it should be abandoned.. I don’t care whose name is on the tin. Marketing departments love people who are into brand loyalty and comfort zones.

 

[scorpio vega]

The only thing that is reliable, in my opinion, is for a tool to work for a certain purpose. The moment that tool no longer serves a certain purpose it should be abandoned.. I don’t care whose name is on the tin. Marketing departments love people who are into brand loyalty and comfort zones.

And that's fine but that is not how most humans work. They will tend to go with the most reliable product that has been proven to them.

We do it with Cars.
we do it with electronic.
Restauraunts.
Mechanics.
Barbers.

Yes, often enough a company may break that trust and reliability and the beauty of being a c onsumer is you have the choice to go elsewhere for another option.

I use Apple for my phone because they have proven to be an exceptionally great company. Google and Samsung especially i actively avoid. I begrudgingly use Youtube but i can forget that is google and I actively avoid any product made by samsung even though i know APple uses Samsung for their screens due to the fact their products are subpar.

I use microsoft for my surface tablet but i stepped out of my comfort zone and brought an iPad earlier this year

 

[bobcomer]

All they talk about is Android.

Alternatives to iOS

non-Apple devices and OSes

forums.macrumors.com

Ah, missed that one, thanks, I'll put it on my list.

 

[BaldiMac]

It is relevant, because whatever app is your default messaging app is where your SMS/RCS notifications come from and the app that opens when you tap said notification. On iOS, your only choice is the built in Messages. On Android there are tons of different apps that can be used as the default messaging app. In fact, Samsung phones now come with two choices out of the box, Google or Samsung messages app.

Hence the "all but" qualifier. Yes, it is the default app for SMS messages, but that's not what this discussion is about. Not many calls for a new SMS handler on iOS. We're talking about messaging services. And you can easily switch between services on iOS without having to worry about defaults.

 

[Harthag]

@Harthag I know you enjoy giving me reactions (In fact the last 3 days alone i have gotten so many from you <3) but i am curious what you disagree with about my post which is factual.

Human beings are going to be loyal and trust what is proven reliability. Which goes along with the Android fanboy mentality of iPhone users don't use anything but iMessage because it is proven reliable for them that you guys continue to make as an argument for iMessage to be on Android.

Your comments are opinion. I just disagree with some of your views and judgment of people as I mentioned before. Is what it is, everyone's got opinions, all good.

I disagree with you labeling many people Android fanboys when your comments can be interpreted as largely Apple fanboy / girl.

I own an iPhone and Pixel, don't care about blue bubbles, just want RCS interoperability between them, and Apple is caught with its pants down because Beeper just proved it can be done by a 16 year old kid. It is stunning and highly entertaining. Apple is holding back progress and hopefully they are exposed now and will quickly implement their version of RCS. If that makes me an Android fanboy, ya got me.

That's the main theme of this whole controversy, in my opinion. Everything else thrown around in between is just nonsense and bickering. I have no problem with you, it's a discussion forum. 👍

 

[scorpio vega]

I disagree with you labeling many people Android fanboys when your comments can be interpreted as largely Apple fanboy / girl

Most of you are in fact android fanboys rooting for Apple to fail. Whether that is you specifically or not, so be it.

I own an iPhone and Pixel, don't care about blue bubbles, just want RCS interoperability between them, and Apple is caught with its pants down because Beeper just proved it can be done by a 16 year old kid. It is stunning and highly entertaining. Apple is holding back progress and hopefully they are exposed now and will quickly implement their version of RCS. If that makes me an Android fanboy, ya got me.

And you are getting RCS at some point so you are not entitled to iMessage. I look forward to Apple continuing to block it.
Moreover, the kid didnt proof anything lmao nor is Apple caught with their pants down. It's been likely suspected it is possible to bring iMessage to Android (Facetime is already proven they can do that if they want to.). Keyword: if they want to.

 

[Harthag]

Most of you are in fact android fanboys rooting for Apple to fail. Whether that is you specifically or not, so be it.

And you are getting RCS at some point so you are not entitled to iMessage. I look forward to Apple continuing to block it.
Moreover, the kid didnt proof anything lmao nor is Apple caught with their pants down. It's been likely suspected it is possible to bring iMessage to Android (Facetime is already proven they can do that if they want to.). Keyword: if they want to.

OK 👍

 

[scorpio vega]

OK 👍

exactly

 

[Janschi]

The first actual dictionary definition I find is: "tending to reduce or discourage competition". In my view that's exactly what Apple achieves by leveraging its position as the OS maker to give iMessage an advantage on iOS. I'm not claiming it blocks competition. Obviously by allowing other apps to be installed it doesn't block competition, but its practices does tend to reduce or discourage it. Also, I'm not fixated on this anticompetitive point. I'm more interested in the negative impact Apple exerts on the general cross-platform messaging landscape regardless of whether or not we are taking about so-called anticompetitive actions.

You are also failing to see the difference between Microsoft (Internet Explorer) and Apple (iMessage).

Microsoft actively tried to stop you installing and making other browsers your default browser.
iMessage was introduced AFTER the release of several messaging apps (WhatsApp, Snapchat, Viber, Kik).
Additionally Apple does not try to stop you from downloading another (messaging) app onto your phone. I vividly remember Apple's ads for the iPhone 3G: There's an app for that! If anything Apple encouraged users to download other/new apps.

 

[Janschi]

That's not quite right, you can't use any other MMS/SMS option with your phone number. It's a problem to say the least, you're pretty much missing out on a lot of services.

Now if they did allow making something else the default MMS/SMS client, that would be a GOOD thing. I'd switch to an RCS client in a heartbeat for more communications cross platform.

But we both know Apple wont do that, so no third party default MMS/SMS client. My bank (and others) doesn't offer notifications via the other third party messaging apps, only MMS/SMS -- so I *can't* turn off iMessage if I have an iPhone. That's the definition of a monopoly. And to tell the truth, I'm getting || close to saying the heck with it, I don't want an iPhone, it's way to stifling and controlled by Apple -- and soon after that, my other apple devices will go by the wayside. I already consider android superior in just about every way, it's only a matter of time. I'm only keeping it for an app that I need for work, for the time being. (It's available for android, but getting the data across is pretty much impossible, and that's Microsoft's fault, not Apple. I can do it a piece at a time, and already started moving it)

1. WhatsApp uses your phone number as user ID. So whoever is in your contacts, will show up in WhatApp if they use it too.

2. "[...] so I *can't* turn off iMessage if I have an iPhone." I am sorry, but you have no technical knowledge AT ALL. You do realize that iMessage does not equal SMS. If you disable iMessage you STILL WILL RECEIVE SMS from your bank.

 

[Janschi]

This thread is too funny. Not a single, i repeat, NOT A SINGLE iOS User cares that he can't replace native SMS apps. But the other people in this thread (obviously Android fanboys) are so adamant about default SMS apps on iOS... 99% of messaging (outside of US) is made on other platforms. SMS is only used for 2FA codes or other messages from businesses (like getting order or shipment confirmations etc).
I'm out of here now. Bye.

 

[scorpio vega]

This thread is too funny. Not a single, i repeat, NOT A SINGLE iOS User cares that he can't replace native SMS apps. But the other people in this thread (obviously Android fanboys) are so adamant about default SMS apps on iOS... 99% of messaging (outside of US) is made on other platforms. SMS is only used for 2FA codes or other messages from businesses (like getting order or shipment confirmations etc).
I'm out of here now. Bye.

I had a shudder just thinking of Apple becoming like Microsoft and selling out to Google like they did with Edge browser becoming Chrome bascially and thinking of IOS becoming remotely like Android.

I really think Android fans seem to have a difficult time understanding that IOS is made to work entirely different than Android.

It's a gesture based OS so we don't care about a universal home button.

Generally most Apple users are buying into an ecoystem that Apple cultivates vs Android users want to be all open and haphazard with their phones. And that's fine.

Most iPhone users have mostly apple products. You do have mixed platform users but those users are not the demographic Apple is really trying to reach because they literally go against what apple is wanting to create.

Apple is not selling you just an iPhone but a family of apps/services/products so it makes sense that there are no "Default" apps outside of IOS apps but at the same time it does not force you into ever using those apps whatsoever so you can still be free to use whatever apps you want to use.

One is meant to be an experience and the other is meant to be a Project/work in progress so to speak.

 

[bobcomer]

1. WhatsApp uses your phone number as user ID. So whoever is in your contacts, will show up in WhatApp if they use it too.

You're right, I do see a couple of contacts in there now. I haven't checked in quite awhile apparently. Interesting.

2. "[...] so I *can't* turn off iMessage if I have an iPhone." I am sorry, but you have no technical knowledge AT ALL. You do realize that iMessage does not equal SMS. If you disable iMessage you STILL WILL RECEIVE SMS from your bank.

I already admitted I was wrong on that -- I was equating iMessage with Messages -- that was the problem.

 

[ozaz]

You are also failing to see the difference between Microsoft (Internet Explorer) and Apple (iMessage).

Microsoft actively tried to stop you installing and making other browsers your default browser.
iMessage was introduced AFTER the release of several messaging apps (WhatsApp, Snapchat, Viber, Kik).
Additionally Apple does not try to stop you from downloading another (messaging) app onto your phone. I vividly remember Apple's ads for the iPhone 3G: There's an app for that! If anything Apple encouraged users to download other/new apps.

Well Apple doesn't enable you to use other messaging apps as your default, which is significant. But to reiterate, this is actually not the key thing I take issue with. The main thing I have an issue with is the negative impact Apple has on overall cross-platform messaging environment (which is broader than the competition point). Apple primarily exerts a negative impact on this "digital environment" (for want of a better term) by not including RCS in the messages app. Crucially (and unlike most things within iOS) this affects everyone, not just iOS users. If I want to communicate with an iOS user and they're not willing to use an app other than the default iOS messaging app, it affects me as the conversation falls back to ancient sms/mms.

Companies are regulated to minimise the negative impact they have on the wider natural/physical environment within which they operate. Personally, I think similar ideas should be applied for the digital environments in which tech companies operate and even though its not a monopoly Apple is plenty big enough to have a negative impact on the overall digital messaging environment.

Fortunately, Apple is now planning to implement RCS (although I'm sure this is very much a case of jumping before they're pushed). This will hopefully solve the issue as it will mean rich communication features for Android<->iOS messaging even when the iOS user can't or won't use an alternative app. But I'll wait and see how if and how RCS actually gets implemented. As I mentioned in my initial post in this thread, *if* Apple doesn't end up following through on their plans to implement RCS, or if they don't do a good job of it, then I think there may be a case for regulators looking at defaults and competition within iOS as an alternative solution. Unfortunately, these alternative suggestions is what others latched onto for prolonged discussion, rather than my broader point. For me, a well-implemented RCS integration is a good-enough solution.

 

[StyxMaker]

I have group chats on iOS which I use all the time. Do you see how this can be a problem?

I think you see the issue and have a crappy workaround, and you conclude that there’s no problem.

If there was no problem, wouldn’t be having these debates!

We have a family chat with a mixture of iPhones and a couple of Androids. The iPhone users are all using Apples built in Messaging app. Everything gets delivered to everyone with no problems.

 

[Apple Core]

if you need iMessage that badly, just get Apple devices....

Well said!

 

[scorpio vega]

Well Apple doesn't enable you to use other messaging apps as your default, which is significant.

Doesnt matter what apple WANTS. you guys keep using this same tired argument and it's ridiculous when everyone else literally uses anything but iMessage in every other country but America.

I need you guys to stop repeating the same thing that makes zero sense as it makes your "argument" look...messy.

 

[BaldiMac]

Well Apple doesn't enable you to use other messaging apps as your default, which is significant.

Why is it significant that it's not the default? Are people really clamoring for a new SMS handler?

But to reiterate, this is actually not the key thing I take issue with. The main thing I have an issue with is the negative impact Apple has on overall cross-platform messaging environment (which is broader than the competition point). Apple primarily exerts a negative impact on this "digital environment" (for want of a better term) by not including RCS in the messages app. Crucially (and unlike most things within iOS) this affects everyone, not just iOS users.

That's a Google-centric point of view. Your basically complaining that Apple didn't implement Google's protocol. Yes, RCS is ostensibly a standard, but in practice, Google has the only significant implementation. RCS was a mess. Now that carriers have basically conceded to Google and dropped their plans to have their own implementations, Apple is willing to implement the protocol.

If I want to communicate with an iOS user and they're not willing to use an app other than the default iOS messaging app, it affects me as the conversation falls back to ancient sms/mms.

That would be what most people call user choice. As you acknowledge, they have dozens of choices to exchange rich messages with you.

 

[ozaz]

Why is it significant that it's not the default? Are people really clamoring for a new SMS handler?

It was significant in the context of the post I was replying to - which was making a comparison to Microsoft and browsers in the 90s. As to whether people clamouring for a new SMS handler: I'd prefer for Apple to just support RCS in the Apple messages app, as they are now planning to do. But if for some reason their plans changed, I'd then like to see the ability to change the default messages app so people who value cross-platform communication could elect to choose one which supported RCS.

That's a Google-centric point of view. Your basically complaining that Apple didn't implement Google's protocol. Yes, RCS is ostensibly a standard, but in practice, Google has the only significant implementation. RCS was a mess. Now that carriers have basically conceded to Google and dropped their plans to have their own implementations, Apple is willing to implement the protocol.

I'm not sure where you've got this from. I don't think Apple should implement Google's protocol. I think GSMA should be the custodians of RCS, not Google. So I have no problem with Apple's plan to implement GSMA's universal profile.

That would be what most people call user choice. As you acknowledge, they have dozens of choices to exchange rich messages with you.

But whenever you want to message a contact using a cross-platform messaging service, its annoying having to recall which proprietary service each contact prefers. I don't know why people don't want a better system than this. Would be much better if you were able to send messages to/from the default messaging app and know that it will handle "rich" features regardless of what platform for the sender/recipient is on.

 

[BaldiMac]

It was significant in the context of the post I was replying to - which was making a comparison to Microsoft and browsers in the 90s. As to whether people clamouring for a new SMS handler: I'd prefer for Apple to just support RCS in the Apple messages app, as they are now planning to do. But if for some reason their plans changed, I'd then like to see the ability to change the default messages app so people who value cross-platform communication could elect to choose one which supported RCS.

That doesn't answer my question. Microsoft in the 90s didn't get in trouble because it had default applications if that is what you are implying. Windows still has default applications. So why do you feel like it is significant that the Messages app is the default handler for SMS?

I'm not sure where you've got this from. I don't think Apple should implement Google's protocol. I think GSMA should be the custodians of RCS, not Google. So I have no problem with Apple's plan to implement GSMA's universal profile.

I explained it clearly. In practice, Google's implementation is the only significant implementation. I don't think Apple is the one that created a "negative impact" by waiting for things to shake out between the carriers and Google before they decided to move forward with RCS.

But whenever you want to message a contact using a cross-platform messaging service, its annoying having to recall which proprietary service each contact prefers. I don't know why people don't want a better system than this. Would be much better if you were able to send messages to/from the default messaging app and know that it will handle "rich" features regardless of what platform for the sender/recipient is on.

Okay? You're getting that when Apple implements RCS. But there will still be advantages to various messaging services as they compete for users, so you're still going to have people that prefer to use specific services.