iMessage - What a mess.

[Alpha Centauri]

The default setting is to erase them after two minutes. They can change this in settings. I have no idea who thought it was a smart default..

Thank you for the reply.

Indeed I check on both devices that: Settings>Apps>Messages has the option turned on to "keep messages forever". It's really only an issue on my partners iP exclusive to voice messages that she receives from me. That's why I'm a bit stumped why she has to quickly hit "keep" every time after listening to it...or it's gone.

 

[EuroChilli]

I'm not sure what's going on but would be guessing it's a carrier issue? My number and email address is tied to the iCloud account, I have switched sims/ sims multiple times, also using local overseas providers. Now every single time I activate a phone line I have the message coming up, asking if I want to use Messages and FaceTime for that particular number.

The biggest gripe I have with Messages is that one particular recipient (if I leave a voice message), has to quickly press "keep" or my Vox disappears from their phone but remains on mine. All settings are checked to keep messages "forever" on both ends, both phones are on the latest iOS...no idea what's happening.

Yes, it was a carrier issue, not being able to send the international verification sms to Apple. What I'm still not sure of is exactly why that sms could not be sent with the one carrier (Digi). The problem at the other operator (Base) was apparently caused by the eSIM, because when I thought all on my own to request another eSIM, iMessage worked within seconds of installing the new eSIM.

This is the pop-up I kept getting, very helpful and full of info about what to do next. Tapping OK just took me back to the other pop-up that asked if I want to activate iMessage. Rinse, repeat.

 

[P_Watt]

Yes, it was a carrier issue, not being able to send the international verification sms to Apple. What I'm still not sure of is exactly why that sms could not be sent with the one carrier (Digi). The problem at the other operator (Base) was apparently caused by the eSIM, because when I thought all on my own to request another eSIM, iMessage worked within seconds of installing the new eSIM.

This is the pop-up I kept getting, very helpful and full of info about what to do next. Tapping OK just took me back to the other pop-up that asked if I want to activate iMessage. Rinse, repeat.

View attachment 2507199

View attachment 2507200

I have changed numbers many times and the usual failsafe method is...
Temporarily disable Wifi in Control Center.
Settings, Apps, Messages, turn off iMessage
Settings, Apps, Face Time, turn off Face Time
Turn phone off then on.
Settings, Apps, Messages, turn on iMessage
Settings, Apps, Face Time, turn on Face Time
Once the imessage is active turn Wifi back on

 

[Wando64]

WhatsApp collects metadata from every single message and beams it up to Meta to be sold for advertising purposes. Have fun with that.

First of all, what do you mean with “Metadata” in relation to WhatsApp messages?
But also, can you reference your sources?
I am curious to understand how Meta can collect any data from end-to-end encrypted messages, other that a message has been sent from here to there.

 

[Wando64]

You can start with the WhatsApp "Privacy" Policy here: https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy

Please don’t reference documents that you have not read.
WhatsApp messages are end-to-end encrypted. It clearly states so in the privacy policy.
So, which bit of the policy do you find suspicious?

 

[Wando64]

Wow you read that all in under six minutes? iMessage isn't bulk data collecting (compare: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/messages/ to WhatsApp privacy policy). Stop defending Meta's actions because you are upset at your carrier.

I appreciate your reply is not aimed at me, but as much as I dislike Meta (and, believe me, I do), I also don’t take kindly to people repeating mantras without any basis for their statements.

Are you saying that Meta is lying when they say that WhatsApp messages are end-to-end encrypted?

Or are you saying that Meta has developed amazing abilities to read encrypted messages?

Whatever you are trying to say, can you please reference it with some sources that you have actually read in full and understood?

 

[amancalledsun]

I can't say I'm ok with it, but how else are we to pay for these 'free' services?

The obvious answer is: don't use them. If they want to show ads, fine. Tracking you to customize ads, not fine - unless you specifically opt in. This, in my view, is the biggest part of the problem; not being able to choose to opt-in, and in most cases having that as the default and instead having to go the often onerous process of trying to opt out.

 

[Unami]

First of all, what do you mean with “Metadata” in relation to WhatsApp messages?
But also, can you reference your sources?
I am curious to understand how Meta can collect any data from end-to-end encrypted messages, other that a message has been sent from here to there.

That’s what it does. It obviously can not collect he content of messages, but it does collect time, participants, place, probably number of messages, people from your contacts you usually chat with, wifi ip, etc… and links this to all the data it got from other sources. So it‘s not uncommon that you talk to somebody you‘ve just wrote a whatsapp to, later the person you talked to googles something you talked about or has some „snoopware“ on his android phone (or even a third party software keyboard that logs data), and then you get a related ad. usually harmless, but not so much if you‘re hiding something from people you live with. e.g. that infamous case where somebody found out that his daughter was pregnant because he suddenly got ads for baby stuff.

 

[ndouglas]

I would troubleshoot with Apple Support.

The carrier doesn't contribute anything to iMessage except the data connection. Texts are sent and received through Apple's servers. The phone number is only the "username." This is why if one gets a new phone number, they need to un-register the old one from iMessage and Apple Account.

Just my experience, but I have done this many times (contact Apple support), it is always time-consuming and almost always time-wasting to bother.

My issue is not the same as OP but similar, Messages do not sync reliably between devices. It’s sad because they sync fine between iphone and ipad but not with macbook pro. Why?! it makes no sense. Not OP’s specific problem, I understand, but it does seem related. And I’ve searched MR forums for months for threads to help and similarly, nothing.

 

[robertosh]

You are in Europe, that’s all. Apple Cloud services in Europe do not work well. Even mail is not usable. Nobody uses iMessage in my environment, I only use it with my wife, it seems a common pattern 🤣. I try to use Signal as much as I can.

 

[attohs]

Please don’t reference documents that you have not read.
WhatsApp messages are end-to-end encrypted. It clearly states so in the privacy policy.
So, which bit of the policy do you find suspicious?

Why do you start your reply (which is one of three that you could have consolidated into one) with a false presumption?

Metadata and the Message Contents are separate things. I never once stated that messages are sold. You owe me an apology. I also see you failed to read the Privacy Policy. Everything from "Information We Collect" to "Our Global Operations" discusses the Metadata they collect, compile, share, and sell.

"The metadata can reveal just enough information to show connections between people, their patterns, and personal information." https://www.researchgate.net/public...ty_and_role_of_metadata_in_preserving_privacy

WhatsApp encryption isn't the problem, metadata is

VPN services and other tricks can help minimize the risk

www.techradar.com

What Does WhatsApp Do With Our Data? - TechRound

Discover the debate sparked by Elon Musk's accusations against WhatsApp. See the controversy and learn about metadata collection and privacy protection.

techround.co.uk

Social media companies engaged in 'vast surveillance,' FTC finds, calling status quo 'unacceptable'

The FTC report looked at Amazon, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Snap, ByteDance, Discord, Reddit and WhatsApp.

www.nbcnews.com

How Facebook Undermines Privacy Protections for Its 2 Billion WhatsApp Users

WhatsApp assures users that no one can see their messages — but the company has an extensive monitoring operation and regularly shares personal information with prosecutors.

www.propublica.org

WhatsApp Has Shared Your Data With Facebook for Years, Actually

A pop-up notification has alerted the messaging app's users to a practice that's been in place since 2016.

www.wired.com

All the data WhatsApp and Instagram send to Facebook

When combined The Facebook Companies know a huge amount about you

www.wired.com

 

[Wando64]

Why do you start your reply … with a false presumption?

My first opening of my first response to you was: “First of all what do you mean with “metadata”?”

As for my opening to my second response, yes I suggested you had not read the referenced information (Meta’s privacy policies).
Maybe you did, but then why did you post the link as if it would provide a big gotcha?. Does it? They are quite open about what they do.
Metadata is visible to, and it is collected by, every messaging platform.

Metadata and the Message Contents are separate things.

That is exactly my point. No need to read it back to me.
Your replies could have given the impression that you believed much more was collected by Meta.
The type of metadata you are mentioning now, is collected by each and every messaging system, iMessage and Signal included.
I suppose one could easily argue that, because of all the other Meta platforms people are using, Meta is better placed to make big data connections than others.

Would Meta use this information? Of course they do. They say as much.

Would Meta abuse this information? I wouldn’t be shocked if they did, but I don’t have any evidence of this so I refrain from stating it as a certainty.

I never once stated that messages are sold.

I’ve never once suggested you did.

You owe me an apology.

Send me an invoice.

 

[EuroChilli]

You are in Europe, that’s all. Apple Cloud services in Europe do not work well. Even mail is not usable. Nobody uses iMessage in my environment, I only use it with my wife, it seems a common pattern 🤣. I try to use Signal as much as I can.

What prompted me to start using iMessage, with my wife at least, was because one day we were having a text chat over Whatsapp about my impending need to get reading glasses. A few hours later, facebook ads for optometrists in our local area. Coincidence? I dunno, because maybe one or both of us had looked at related stuff online before.

I've looked into Signal and Telegram, but literally no one we know uses either of those. It's WA all the way.

Yahoo is probably more reliable than iCloud email, which I have but don't actively use. My Yahoo of 25 years is still chugging along. But I've had to stop using Yahoo for any website that needs to send time sensitive OTPs, it's often way too slow and the OTP expires. Gmail works fine for that.

 

[AL2TEACH]

I try to use Signal as much as I can.

Lol, you may be on the list for the next Department of Defense chat

 

[P_Watt]

Lol, you may be on the list for the next Department of Defense chat

Yes no matter how good the end to end encryption of the data is, you only need one weasel on your message group publishing content to bring you down, like many other politicians and celebrities in recent past.

 

[EuroChilli]

Dunno who to point fingers at anymore.

So my iMessage has been working fine on my usual operator the last few days, but when I toggled another eSIM on from another provider, with another number in another country, it activated within seconds on that number, but when I toggled my usual provider back on, same problem. Error activating iMessage....no moving numbers to other operators and installing new eSIMs, just toggling eSIMS with other numbers on and off.

I said earlier, Jobs must be turning in his grave. It does not just work...

 

[EuroChilli]

And we're back. What an interesting ~2 weeks. Guess I'm not going to be switching anything again unless I really, really have to. In the meantime I've upgraded both our phone plans to unlimited local calling and have instructed my wife to use that as much as possible instead of Whatsapp to call all her girlfriends (even though many of them also have iPhones), to mitigate any 'privacy concerns'. Not that our local carrier isn't also watching us...

 

[Grayburn]

Apple Cloud services in Europe do not work well. Even mail is not usable.

Lies

 

[EuroChilli]

Lies

I also know so. I just went along with the insinuation that they don't work well in Europe.

 

[Grayburn]

I also know so. I just went along with the insinuation that they don't work well in Europe.

Never had a problem since iCloud services arrived, nor do i know of anyone i know to of ever had big problems with the services. Pretty sure if they were that bad they'd of been uproar in the various countries that make Europe.

 

[EuroChilli]

Never had a problem since iCloud services arrived, nor do i know of anyone i know to of ever had big problems with the services. Pretty sure if they were that bad they'd of been uproar in the various countries that make Europe.

I believe Europe is Apple's 2nd biggest market, after the USA? So no, I don't think they mess around with the service here. Search Apple data centres Denmark. Cost billions.