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Mixed feelings...

I completely understand the need for a new paradigm in FCP. I have been using FCPX in my spare time and I like it quite a lot actually, it has huge potential to change the way NLE is done. What I don't agree with is apple discontinuing FCS3. I know some houses are in need of additional FCP editors, and by not letting these houses buy additional licenses is going to hurt the platform. Now FCPX is awesome, but in NO way is a pro software, it lacks a lot of functionality that is really basic for pro workflows. Will it be able to do all those things? YES. Will it take time for those features to get integrated? YES. Can it replace FCP7 now? Of course not!! And no respectable house will replace its primary editing software without evaluating the new version first, that would be totally irresponsible.

We will keep working on 7 for a while and keep a close eye on FCPX, and if there's no updates to bring it up on par or better than FCP7 or if support for FCP7 dies then we'll know what to do, in the mean time we have some editing to do.
 
BIG SIGH.

A quick google yielded this from another computer forum:

"After a consultation with Final Cut Pro X's product managers at Apple, Pogue addressed the concerns of the professional video editors in a question and answer style post. "

Again, very strange that professional users on the cow for example have resorted to addressing their concerns back to Pogue since he clearly has Apple's ear!

Does that seem right to you? Seems a little backwards to me. Imagine your professional bookkeeper/accountant having some immediate questions and concerns about a quickbooks release that drops all mac interface functionality and Intuit answers your concerns through a David Pogue post about how easy it is to balance his checkbook with the new web interface version of quickbooks.

( BIG CHUCKLE )

You seem to want to concentrate on the controversy behind the article rather then what was actually said in the article. Thats fine if thats what you want.

I'm interested in what Apple says about these problems for people coming off of FCP7. And if Apple makes good on these claims. The rest is tabloid fodder.
 
Okay guys, I must admit over the weekend I have changed my opinion about FCPX by 180°!!!
I therefore apologize to anyone I have crossed blades with, during the last few days.

What made me change my mind and appreciate Apple's goal?

At first I was perplexed and also relieved that despite all the uproar about the many missing features, almost everybody who actually TRIED to edit with the damn thing, loved the timeline handling immediately.
I read things like "it grows on you" and some even called it "fun" to edit with.
And this came from actual working professionals at creativecow.net or final-cut-pro.de. Not from some imovie-fanboy.net kids...

The next thing that puzzled me was this example video here:
http://library.creativecow.net/battistella_david/FCPX-Calcio-Storico/1

Because what I saw there, is exactly the fluid, dynamic, emotional editing style I'm trying to achieve in most of my work! So how come this piece of dreck software did this task so well?

Personally the most shocking news of this FCPX release was the fact that multicam editing was gone. I was very happy to learn from Pogue that this missing feature is a top priority on Apple's to-do-list.
Then it dawned on me, and I began to realize WHY this has been my absolute favorite feature in FCP7.
It wasn't about the multi cam angles. It was the FLUIDITY of this editing process that got me hooked.

And then I suddenly UNDERSTOOD Randy Ubilos' vision.
They are trying to give us this FLUID EDITING EXPERIENCE with one camera on the ordinary timeline as well!
THAT'S why these early adopters had so much fun with the core editing functions of FCPX. Editing became a much more fluid process than ever before!

Personally, I despise effect-laden montages of beautiful shots that provide an overload of style, but offer not much function and make even less sense.
I'm usually more interested in TELLING A STORY in the most realistic, interesting and dynamic way possible.
By working with FCP7 I often found myself pulled out of the editing FLOW by the tedious work steps and frankly rather clumsy approach this tool required.
NO, FCP7 has never been a real love affair and was not nearly as much fun to work with, as for instance InDesign is.
To me, FCP7 was nothing more than a rather irksome tool that got the required tasks done. But I always found the UI to be very un-Apple-like and rather windozy or adobeish.

Is this product really aimed at ambitious amateurs and semi-pros?

Absolutely NOT.
FCPX is clearly aimed at anybody who understands and speaks the VISUAL LANGUAGE OF MOVING IMAGES.
Which most amateurs, consumers and hobbyists frankly do not...

This tool is for people whose favorite editing book is rather Walter Murch's "In the Blink of an Eye" than "Editing Techniques with Final Cut Pro" or any other boring How-to-Do-Bible!
In other words: FCPX is for creative filmmakers and video creators with storyteller talent and/or a genuine visual concept, but NOT necessarily a tool for video technique lovers who like to impress their clients mainly with their TECHNICAL SKILLS and EFFECT WIZARDY...

Yes, some of these creative movie minds might be evolving from related creative professions like photographers, graphic designers, dynamic web designers, camera people who didn't edit, etc., because:
FCP X is all about PROFESSIONAL CREATIVITY while FCP 7 was more about TECHNICAL PROFICIENCY.

Now that I see Apple's vision much clearer, I'm beginning to like where this is heading. Although I must admit, they have a lot of work ahead.

To use an analogy from the OS history to explain the current development state and potential of the major NLE editing tools:

Avid Media Composer = Windows 2000 Server
Premiere CS5 = Windows XP
Final Cut Studio 3/FCP7 = Mac OS 9.2
Final Cut Pro X 10.0 = Mac OSX 10.0

Hopefully FCPX 10.3 will be reaching at least Mac OSX 10.4 levels.


What about the missing EDL, XML, OMF import/export and other communication and interchangeability problems?

As usual Apple is thinking way ahead of the curve.
In 5-6 years I assume we won't be needing all this transcoding stuff to connect with ancient hardware anymore.

I've been there already and experienced similar transitions in the printing industry. 20 years ago we graphic designers had to work with a plethora of specialists (econgeek would call them monkey assemblers ;-) to get our creative work published. Most of these professions are long gone by now! Typesetters, photo lithographers, letterpress printers, offset printers, intaglio printers, photo finisher including their almost factory-sized prepress houses are all extinct. Only a small minority of these highly-paid jobs has merged into new professions.

Around 1995 the printing industry was the same chaotic mess the video industry is right now. Then Adobe Acrobat grew into the backbone technology that tied everything together and finally changed our industry forever.
We graphic designers were probably the least affected by these revolutionary transitions and stayed always IN CHARGE of the creative game. Except now we are enjoying even more creative control than ever before. Believe me, my job is a lot more fun and creative now than it was 20 years ago!

Printing industry workflow today:
Art Director/Graphic Designer & Mac & Adobe Design Collection > PDF as connective link > digital printer, direct-to-plate process or print technology of your choice

The future motion media workflow will be similar:
Video Director/Filmmaker & Mac & FCPX > future standard video codec as connective link > video distribution of your choice (web, broadcasting, theatrical projection, discs, download, whatever...)

All the current fancy high-end post production facilities (equivalent to prepress houses) with their insanely expensive transcoding hardware, including ancient broadcasting technologies with tapes and what-not will be phased out, as soon as the missing connective link - a new standard codec (equivalent to PDF) - is being created. By then the classic editor-only job will only be found in Hollywood and in high-end TV productions.

Of course we are not there yet. But believe me, we will. Sooner than many are realizing.
During the coming years the still ongoing (and most likely worsening) recession will add a lot more pressure on us to improve our productivity.
Because that will be the only way of still making money.

Let's not forget: The broadcasting industry is only sticking with their ancient technology and old-fashioned equipment, because they have no decent alternative found yet.
I think they hate these expensive, complicated and insanely clumsy workflows as much as any reasonable person would.
The only people resisting change and clinging to old school workflows are those who have invested way too much into such equipment and the knowhow to wrangle it!

What about the missing in-dept control and effect tools and interactions with other software?

Obviously Apple has a more modular system in mind.
If Red or Sony wants to get their proprietary formats or files into FCP X, they have to provide their own plug-in or take a hike.
If Adobe is willing to add-on After Effects or anything else, they'll probably be welcome as well.
Who is stopping someone like Roxio or Adobe from providing an FCP X tool for authoring DVD's or even BluRays?
The "BD is dead" crowd wouldn't be forced to buy it and could stop complaining about ancient technology they have to pay for...
From what we've heard, several effects filter companies are already committed.


A sound warning to everybody thinking about jumping ship.

If you go the Avid or Premiere road now, you'll probably rushing with 100 mph into a dead end street.
Because all the technical reasons behind your switching plans will be moot in 3-4 years anyway. You'll be losing a lot of money and wasting a lot of learning time for nothing...

I think in the long run the hold out with FCP7 and watch FCP X grow up strategy will be much smarter.
At least that's what I'm going to do, after a weekend of sober reflections.

Good lord. Why do people have opinions? :mad:

It's so confusing. :p

Hmm. So Apple did **** up this release as I said in one of my previous posts but ultimately did the right thing?

Ah!! We will have to wait and see.

Edited statement:

'Yes, Apple can do wrong. Yes, Apple can be a bitch. This is a perfect example'*

*Conditions Apply
 
The real tragedy here is if Apple thinks all the anger over FCP X is just about that particular software, and not the growing fear over the last few years that pro apps and gear are a fading priority for Apple. For instance:

* It took almost 2.5 years to go from Final Cut Studio 2 to Final Cut Studio 3, and Final Cut Studio 3 was just a moderate update. Then it took almost another 2 full years to introduce Final Cut Pro X, which removed tons of features!

* Apple bought Shake, and then cancelled it. Cancelled it! Apple said there would be a next-generation app coming in Shake's place, but that never showed up.

* Apple started letting Logic atrophy.

* Apple "phoned-in" the last few Mac Pro updates, just slapping in some new Intel chips, but not adding value such as 1) more expansion slots (three slots is not a lot for a workstation), and 2) never bothering to include an eSATA port, even though tons of media professionals started using eSATA, 3) never bothering to include a USB3 port, etc. etc. Many people are wondering if the new Thunderbolt port will be Apple's excuse to give up on the Mac Pro altogether.

* Apple stopped updating its "Pro" page almost two years ago, here: http://www.apple.com/pro/

* Apple stopped attending NAB, and other standard industry events.

* Multiple rumors that Apple was trying to sell its Pro Apps division....


People have spent a lot of time and money building their businesses and careers around FCP. But since the iPhone launched, FCP and other pro apps and gear have gotten noticeably less attention.

That makes a lot of people nervous, and left to wonder what Apple's intentions are. You really can't help but wonder because Apple is so ridiculously silent about its intentions, which works fine on the consumer side but not when people are investing tens of thousands of dollars in apps and gear around Apple.

Combine that with Apple shipping a new version of Final Cut that is so radically different and so underpowered, and also discontinuing sales for FCS 3 suites and FCP Server (with no explanation about Server's demise or any intentions on bringing back multi-user functionality) and you can see how the dam finally burst in the Pro community and the angry flood waters rushed in.

Apple better start communicating better with its pro customers, and re-assuring them that it's committed to professional work in this new era of the iPhone/iPad. Otherwise, a lot of people will be heading for the doors...

So FCP and other pro apps just stop working after a couple of years? I buy apps because they can do the job I need them to do right out of the box. Purchasing an app for possible future updates is ridiculous at best. I'm guessing that the majority of FCP users buy the app for exactly what it can do right now. Apple has broken no promises with FCPX, rather they seem to be offering a different option to an existing and capable product. It is rational to be concerned that the overall changes to an OS and updates to future hardware could put some older software out of date, but I don't foresee that happening with FCP7 anytime soon. At least not in some manner that would make my existing system obsolete. As for updating to FCPX, I will wait until the software is up to speed before I risk any client projects on it. For now, I get paid to use an App that does a fine job right now. Perhaps I am biased because I started out cutting actual film or doing real A/B tape roll, or perhaps its that I remember how difficult or darn right impossible it was to get a project captured, edited and output to tape using radius cards and Adobe Premiere. FCP pays for itself every time I bill a customer for a job.Thank you Apple!!!
 
... and so comes the next big, predictable peak of the wave of comments about why FCPX "will never be professional", along with the obligatory shouty, angry foot stamping and badly disguised temper tantrums from "the pros", who think that learning all the fiddly, clunky nuances of software is more important than the very creativity that made them want to enter the game to begin with...

How sad, and how pathetic. If you don't like FCPX, then leave, and let those of us with a balanced, (truly) open mind and an absolute passion to embrace fantabulous new tools, get on with enjoying how it works, and leaving all you luddites in the rusty, flaky dust of your tape archives.

I am a fun but also highly creative guy, and I enjoy software for the technological side and also the empowerment it gives people. If you don't enjoy it in the same way, that's also alright with me, as we can't all see things from the same angle - some take longer than others, if ever, to have the "NOW I get it" moment. If you never take to FCPX, that's good too - just don't expect the rest of us to sit and listen whilst you insist on telling us it is a bad product, when we can see and feel for ourselves that is is not.
 
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So basically this thread appears to be divided into three camps:

1. The people who actually work in the industry, have a clue, and generally hate the new software.

2. The skinny jeans and pabst blue ribbon hipster crew who just want to edit their fixed gear bike videos and don't have a problem with the software because they don't have jobs and their time is worth nothing anyway.

3. The Apple-can-do-no-wrong contingent, who have managed to drag themselves out of the primordial ooze and while not yet being in the middle of the bell curve, let alone the right side, have managed to figure out how to use internet forums, much to the consternation of everyone else.



All the actual Apple Stores pulled their copies, and three quarters of Apple's customers apparently forget you can get things faster and cheaper through third-party resellers more often than not.

A cringe worthy sweeping generalization that got +10. People are really emotional on this.
 
Apple's giving consumers the tools to become prosumers.

Smartest thing ever.

Will this work on my iPad? Now I can teach grandma to edit and she'll actually understand.

Welcome to the new reality. Everyone's a pro now. How does that make you feel? I can learn FCPX in no time now and do some hot-**** work, just like the big boys. Then I'll post my creations online. YouTube? Nah, screw that. I'll stream it thru Twitter. Instagram . . . Instareel? Sounds nice.

Simplify, simplify, simplify, but still keep the damn thing powerful, and make Joe Average not so average anymore.

Purple haze, guys. Just drop a few and sit down with Apple's creative tools. iPad version's available too.

Apple = populist approach to "complicated computing." We're all Pros now.

Nonsense. Where do you come up with this utter rubbish? 'Prosumer'? The pros will move to a better product which is actually suited to a pro, and a non-pro will never buy FCPX due to the high price. I fit right into the description of your 'new-pro' or whatever, and I'll never buy FCPX. iMovie does me fine for what I do.

I can't believe you're actually trying to defend this. Personally, I think Apple will eventually update FCPX to a reasonable standard for pros, but it will be in a slow and begrudging manner.
 
For those not understanding why the pros are angry - watch this, I think it explains it well - hopefully you might see why there is serious feeling on this:

http://vimeo.com/25624693

Nicely edited, but this very fact disproves your theory. You have a perfectly good suite of editing software, so why are you so upset? Just don't upgrade until Apple finishes FCPX to your liking or you find a better option. Its not like Apple thugs are on their way to your studio to rip the software from your hard drive.
 
Was that even worth your input?

Yup.

A cringe worthy sweeping generalization that got +10. People are really emotional on this.

People tend to get emotional when they're going to have to make substantial changes to how they do their job, especially when the change is because a company they used to rely on unzips and pisses on what they do. ;)

Honestly, my laughing at hipsters and Apple's drooling-idiot blind followers aside, nobody would care if this were the new Final Cut Express. If FCP got ZERO front-end changes and just got GCD, OCL and 64bit rewrites under the hood, people would be screaming with joy. They could even put in the awful new interface changes and make 'em optional. But to say "This is how you will work now" is just asinine, Apple doesn't have the clout to dictate that sort of change in this industry. They're not fighting against Creative and Rio in the MP3 player market where nobody is doing anything that matters. To make gradual change would have made sense, this does not.
 
and let those of us with a balanced, (truly) open mind and an absolute passion to embrace fantabulous new tools, get on with enjoying how it works, and leaving all you luddites in the rusty, flaky dust of your tape archives.

Yes, everyone which doesn't have your opinion is closed minded, luddite and unbalanced.

Do you always act so trollish like on this post or you're really believe the insults you're saying?
 
I'm sure it's been said before in this thread - but Ubillos neglected an important fact in his email posted on Creative Cow.

He said (paraphrasing) that it wasn't a priority for editors to be able to import into FCPX because that shouldn't be done mid-project.

What Ubillos - and many people on this thread neglect to understand is that I can't think of one professional editor that would migrate mid project. That's not the issue. The issue is that professional editors have tons of legacy projects for clients who might need an edit tweak here or there. Or a new edit based on the older version. And yes - you can still keep FCP 7 on your system. But that's a jury-rig going forward.

Apple's biggest faux pas to date on this is the lack of communication. A list of features pending and due dates (even approximate) would have gone a long way to quell the noise on some of the missing features. But they weren't forthcoming and this is the industry backlash they are getting.
 
your asking a loaded question. Either way looks bad, just the way you worded it.

I don't think Apple really cares about the negative feedback, because they already knew how people would respond.

This is nothing new. People have reacted like this with similar changes in the past. OS9 to Mac OSX. iPods, iPads & iPhones.

Once the program has matured I think people will see what they are trying to do.

Yes, but by that time no professional will still be using it, nor will they want to go back to FCP.

I am a professional software developer. We sell software to other developers. Of course, software needs a particular set of features. But at least as important is the promise that we will support it. And the confidence that our clients have that this is true. This trust is something that does not get built overnight.

But it can be destroyed overnight. Apple has shown this. If they put FCP back on the market right now they would solve the immediate needs of the professional editors, but I am afraid that they will have to do a lot more than that to keep them on board for the long run. In that sense, it is Apple who is short-sighted, not the editors.

Don't get me wrong: it is excellent if a company is able to develop new and perhaps revolutionary products. In a consumer market this draws a lot of attention, and that is a battle half-won. The professional world however needs a migration path. It needs to plan things. Apple has failed miserably at this.

And the weird thing is: they can do a proper migration if they really want to. The transition from 68000 to PowerPC, to Intel, and to 64 bit have been relatively painless. Microsoft has never pulled off something like this. Even today Microsoft still advises to install 32-bit Word on 64-bit windows installations.

So my conclusion is: they do not want the professionals anymore. That's all fine, but don't be surprised if the professionals are going to be pissed and are not going to want them back either, however nice FCP X is going to be for the masses.
 
So my conclusion is: they do not want the professionals anymore. That's all fine, but don't be surprised if the professionals are going to be pissed and are not going to want them back either, however nice FCP X is going to be for the masses.

Apple has never really been for the professional market. I did not really realized that until yesterday. Its always been the consumer or prosumer (Semi-professional )

It was not till after I watched the original 1999 Final Cut Pro 1.0 commercial they originally intended to target the prosumer market. And they plainly show that in that commercial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS6pjJ4eiVY

Sure they added more advanced features since then, but after the rewrite they once again concentrated first on the prosumer market and will add more advanced features when it is ready.

Easy to use has always been an Apple trademark.

If you look in the Professional market its always been Avid for instance.
 
Yes, but by that time no professional will still be using it, nor will they want to go back to FCP.

I am a professional software developer. We sell software to other developers. Of course, software needs a particular set of features. But at least as important is the promise that we will support it. And the confidence that our clients have that this is true. This trust is something that does not get built overnight.

But it can be destroyed overnight. Apple has shown this. If they put FCP back on the market right now they would solve the immediate needs of the professional editors, but I am afraid that they will have to do a lot more than that to keep them on board for the long run. In that sense, it is Apple who is short-sighted, not the editors.

Don't get me wrong: it is excellent if a company is able to develop new and perhaps revolutionary products. In a consumer market this draws a lot of attention, and that is a battle half-won. The professional world however needs a migration path. It needs to plan things. Apple has failed miserably at this.

And the weird thing is: they can do a proper migration if they really want to. The transition from 68000 to PowerPC, to Intel, and to 64 bit have been relatively painless. Microsoft has never pulled off something like this. Even today Microsoft still advises to install 32-bit Word on 64-bit windows installations.

So my conclusion is: they do not want the professionals anymore. That's all fine, but don't be surprised if the professionals are going to be pissed and are not going to want them back either, however nice FCP X is going to be for the masses.

and no one forces you to install 64 bit windows since even windows 7 supports x86

when MS introduced SQL 2005 with a totally new ETL engine they still had an import utility so that you could open your old DTS packages and convert them to the new format. and it worked very well unless you had very complicated packages with a lot of scripting

this week i'm doing research on some of the MS server management tools and the 2010/2007 versions will support management products from 2003 that MS has killed and renamed
 
So my conclusion is: they do not want the professionals anymore. That's all fine, but don't be surprised if the professionals are going to be pissed and are not going to want them back either, however nice FCP X is going to be for the masses.

What is wrong with you all? Is it so hard to understand that the professional area not only consist out of broadcast and Hollywood? There are a lot more pros in other areas. So why the narrow view?
 
Apple's biggest faux pas to date on this is the lack of communication. A list of features pending and due dates (even approximate) would have gone a long way to quell the noise on some of the missing features. But they weren't forthcoming and this is the industry backlash they are getting.

It’s the way Apple always was… And PLEASE stop equating broadcast/Hollywood with the pro-area in video-editing - They are by far the smallest part of it.
 
conclusion

after reading so much crap in this thread from the so called pros and wannabe pros - i decided to register here to try a final conclusion.

the only mistake apple made was pulling off FCS the market immediately after FCPX release.
This was bad - not the missing features from a V1.0 version.
They should have made it the other way - you should still be able to buy FCS and get FCPX as a free bonus, and everybody would be happy!
 
after reading so much crap in this thread from the so called pros and wannabe pros - i decided to register here to try a final conclusion.

the only mistake apple made was pulling off FCS the market immediately after FCPX release.
This was bad - not the missing features from a V1.0 version.
They should have made it the other way - you should still be able to buy FCS and get FCPX as a free bonus, and everybody would be happy!

I have to agree with this. What I think the folks at Apple don't understand is that this software is used in a production environment. Professionals don't have time to be 'beta testers'. They need to be able to learn the work flow rapidly, and use the software to push product out. Consumers may put up with buggy 1.0 verions of software, but professsionals can't afford to do that. Apple should have put out a free 'beta' version of FCPX out for a year to get the bugs out of it before pulling the plug on FCS.
 
Final Cut 1.0 1999 Reviews


MACWORLD

Apples playing field in 1999 - Randy is in this vid. Dig the jazzy soundtrack

Final cut 1 video

Enjoy
the final sentence, if you replace Premiere with FCPX, pretty much sums up this whole controversy.
Macworld's Buying Advice

If you're already using Premiere and After Effects(or in 2011, Final Cut Studio), there's little reason to switch to Final Cut Pro. But Final Cut's extensive capabilities and refined interface make it a first-rate foundation for a professional video-editing system–particularly if you're putting together a new system and can choose your hardware based on what Final Cut Pro supports. Version 1.0 is a stunning effort, and we expect even better things from the sequels.

that was ten years ago - look where final cut pro is now - and then imagine where FCPX will be in a few years.
 
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